John Whelan, CEO, Irish Exporters Association.
On Vincent Browne last night.
Like watching a baby seal being clubbed. But in a good way.
Vincent Browne: “You mentioned the national minimum wage, that that’s another factor that’s going against us. How does an increase in the national minimum wage from, is it 7.4, 7.6 to 8.6?”
Whelan: “8.6, about a 13% increase.”
Browne: “8.6. A euro increase in the national minimum wage is going to make a significant difference?”
Whelan: “Well, the difficulty when you’re looking at the minimum wage is that it’s the spin-off effect. It signals the baseline. So nobody wants to be seen to be paying the minimum wage so you’re working off whatever the minimum wage and all the salary scales go up from it.”
Browne: “That’s why hospital consultants are paid so much, is it?”
Whelan: “Well. Ha ha. That’s a different story.”
Browne: “Or that CEOs are paid so much.”
Whelan: “Well, again you’re into a different –”
Browne: “Is that because of the national minimum wage is increased, is it?”
Whelan: “Well we did a survey of about 400 companies in the Dublin region in the food sector retail wholesale sector, just in the last few months, and their biggest concern – and we’re trying to see what we do to help their brands get back on the shelf to places like Tesco where you know a lot of foreign product has come in and so on… Their biggest issue was labour cost. And when you’re talking to a lot of them, it’s the low end of the labour scale. Food and drink, we’ve about, somewhere about 400 to 600 companies in food and drink, they’re virtually all small companies. They all tend to be at the low labour end. It’s labour-intensive. They can’t afford any more. You have to compare them against the UK. They’re mainly competing against the UK and in the UK the minimum wage is already nearly 10% below what we are.”
Browne: “Could you live on 7.60 an hour?”
Whelan: “Well that’s not, that’s not the issue.”
Browne: “Just, just tell us. Could you live on 7.60 an hour?”
Whelan: “I couldn’t but that’s not the issue.”
Browne: “But why do you expect other people to do so?”
Whelan: “Well the difficulty is, if we want to sell what we’re producing –”
Browne: “No wait, wait a minute. You’re in favour of keeping the national minimum wage at 7.60 an hour. You couldn’t live on it. How do you expect other people to live on it?”
Whelan: “But, but most people aren’t being paid the minimum wage. What I’m saying, Vincent, is…”
Browne: “Just a minute, John, now… You want some people to be paid the minimum wage. You want them to be paid 7.60 an hour. Don’t you? Obviously you do.”
Whelan: “Yes, we…. as a baseline.”
Browne: “You say you couldn’t live on it. How do you expect other people to live on it?”
Whelan:“It’s the baseline.”
Browne: “Yeah yeah. I know, I know, I know… You want some people to be paid the national minimum wage, 7.60 an hour.”
Whelan: “If, if you’ve got a student coming out, am ah, I’m sure they’re quite happy to take 7.60 an hour.”
Browne: “They might be but it’s actually… Your statement this evening said that [reads] it’s in the agrifood sector that is most affected. Not many students are working in the agrifood sector.”
Whelan: “Oh there is.”
Browne: “Not many students are working the agrifood sector.”
Whelan: “You’d be surprised.”
Browne: “I would be surprised. Now. Let’s go back to this. If you couldn’t live on the national minimum wage, why do you advocate that other people are forced to live on the national minimum wage?”
Whelan: “Well the reality is that we’re competing against countries who pay below our minimum wage.”
Browne: “I know I know. No, but do you think… Do you’ve any embarrassment at asking some people to live at a wage that you couldn’t possibly live on?”
Whelan: “When I started working I was working at that kind of a wage, Vincent.”
Browne: “So you could live on it. Is that what you’re saying?”
Whelan: “That’s where they start.”
Browne: “So you’re changing your story now. You could live on it.”
Whelan: “Not, not… As a student I could. As a single person…”
Browne: “As somebody working in the agrifood sector.”
Whelan: “As a single person starting out, living at home, I could. It’s, that’s, that’s…”
Browne: “John, John, do you have any sense of shame or embarrassment at proposing that people live on a salary that you acknowledge you couldn’t live on?”
Whelan: “We’re not, we’re not actually asking everybody to live on the minimum wage.”
Browne: “Not everyone, I didn’t say you were asking everyone. Don’t reply to questions – I know you want to escape the thrust of my question – and don’t reply to questions I didn’t ask. Now. I’ll try it again. Do you have any shame or embarrassment in advocating that some people be paid a wage that you say you couldn’t live on?”
Whelan: “Vincent if we wish to get people off the 440 who are unemployed.”
Browne: “Is there any chance you’d answer this question?”
Whelan: “Well, if we want to get the 440 off the unemployed, we have to look at -”
Browne: “I’m just, do you have any sense of shame or embarrassment at advocating that some people be paid a wage that you say you couldn’t live on?”
Whelan: “I have no embarrassment whatsoever in pointing out that we are living beyond our means as a country, and if that means we have to leave the minimum wage where it currently is, then yes, I’m saying leave the minimum wage where it currently is. Why are we trying to raise the whole cost of…?”
Browne: “Because people like you, because you acknowledge people can’t live on it.”
Whelan: “At the moment yes, so why…?”
Browne: “So why, why don’t you cut your wage?”
Whelan: “Well, we all have, those in private sector. we’ve all cut our wages.”
Browne: “Alright…”
[Later]
Whelan: “The hits [pay cuts at the top] have been taken for four years, ah, now on the trot in the private sector.”
Elaine Byrne: “How much have your wages come down in the last year?”
Whelan: “Well is, is, it, it depends on whether you see, eh, whether it came down. It didn’t actually come down as such. It didn’t go up. Heh heh. But I’ve been flat… So…”
Browne: “Aw. Aw well OK. OK. You win the argument then. You win, you win.”
Watch full show here
Minimum Wage Level Restored (RTE)