Meanwhile, In Stoneybatter

at

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This morning.

Dublin Says No writes:

Carnew Street [in Stoneybatter, Dublin 7] blockade ongoing. Irish Water workers threatening and intimidating local residents this morning. It is an intolerable situation. Please show your support. There have been a number of arrests in neighbouring areas of Phibsboro and Grangegorman. One man arrested for filming the protest, while Irish Water’s private security filmed protestors unimpeded by Gardaí.

Dublin Says No

Previously: Dumb Intelligence Gathering

Update:

paulmurphy

In the Dáil this afternoon Paul Murphy attempts to describes an alleged incident in Stoneybatter this morning involving private security firm Guardex.

Update:

Mark Malone writes:

Today in Dublin 7, Guardex, hired by #IrishWater, threatened numerous peaceful campaigners in Stoneybatter. One local resident, Mick Mooney, was on his way to work when he was pinned against a wall by three private security guards and told ‘I’ll get you. You don’t know who you’re messing with.’ They then showed him a photo of his car and its number plate. Several women in the campaign were told by private security that they’d find out where they live.
Three people were arrested in the Dublin 7 area today for protesting against the installation of water meters.
In Phibsboro, police arrested two campaigners while Irish Water contractors allegedly assaulted campaigners across the street.
In Grangegorman, a car belonging to a peaceful campaigner had its tyres slashed.
The guards arrested another local resident for filming the protest.
Today, there has been invasive surveillance of peaceful protestors by shadowy private security firms. Today, there have been violent attacks on peaceful protestors by the hired mercenaries of billionaires. Intimidation, fear, bullying and violence seem to be the only solution Irish Water can propose to local residents’ peaceful protests. If they get away with this violence in Stoneybatter, it will spread to other communities. This is not just an attack on the Dublin 7 campaign, this is an attack on us all. Join us tomorrow from 6:30 am outside Kavanagh’s pub at the top of Manor Street, and from there we will organise demonstrations around Stoneybatter, Grangegorman and Phibsboro to make a peaceful stand against this horrific behaviour. Keep Irish Water out of Dublin 7.

 

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86 thoughts on “Meanwhile, In Stoneybatter

  1. waffles

    We’ve all seen the videos.
    Its the usual, local residents intimidating and threatening the Irish Water workers.

    1. Dandy

      Thankfully some people have a bit of gumption about them and dont just go along everything our wonderful government spouts , unfortunately weve lost most people to complete and utter subservience no matter what the consequences … people seem to be literally fooled by anything these days once it has a bit of spin about it and they have no interest in researching both sides to any story or hearing anything that might not fit into their cosy little bubble , amazing how much has been exposed over the past number of years and yet most still choose to follow along en mass like lemmings off a cliff

      1. YourNan

        the amount of inbred gobshites in this thread, amaze. The rest of Europe has been getting along fine paying water charges without privatisation, without end of the world nonsense. you lot are just crusty numpties too smug to go and take a job and pay for what you use. It will be fun to see how this pans out at the election. idiots.

        1. Dandy

          i find it amazing that everyone assumes anyonie against the manner this is being introduced suddenly doesnt have a job ?? ah yeah sure its cool, we’l just continue to do what everyone else does and not have any original plans for our own country , and if anyone doesnt toe the line they can be considered to be inbred gobshites ….. sure thats a fantastic outlook on life . thanks for that , i wont think twice about anything again no matter how obviously corrupt the people involved are . thanks for that

          1. smoothlikemurphys

            “i find it amazing that everyone assumes anyonie against the manner this is being introduced suddenly doesnt have a job ??”

            Right back at you – I find it amazing that *all* of the people against the charges assume that anyone that is OK with paying it has been in some way hoodwinked by ‘THE MEEJA’ and is incapable of making up their own mind.

            There are many, many people who have looked at the facts, understood the situation, and then made up their minds that they would register with Irish Water and accept the bills when they arrive.

        2. Jess

          The rest of Europe does not have 52% income tax kicking in at the average wage. The rest of europe have water rates of a fraction of the price of Irelands. And the rest of Europe doesnt fecking matter!

          ‘you lot are just crusty numpties too smug to go and take a job and pay for what you use’

          Yes thats right, everyone against water charges is unemployed crusties. What a dashingly clever observation.

          However it might be worth pointing out that neither you, nor anyone else will actually be paying for what they use as bills will be capped. So you can use as little or as much as you want and still pay about €160.

          ‘the amount of inbred gobshites in this thread, amaze’

          amaze what? You know you should probably proof read your own ramblings before insulting other peoples intelligence

          1. Domestos

            Protest about the Income Tax rate then. A la carte protesting. ‘No tax, more spending. F*ck the IMF.’

          2. Jess

            People were protesting against the income tax, and the usc and austerity in general.

            And don’t bother dragging up the tired old dismissal of ‘well if they’re against this why weren’t they out protesting that’. We all know that if they were protesting specifically other aspects of austerity on different marches you’d call them professional protesters and dismiss them anyway

          3. italia'90

            @rep Thank you Mount St.
            The originally proposed water charges were amongst the most expensive to be charged in Europe.
            Personally, I believe we should pay for the water we use. However, I am totally opposed to the present situation of privatising water infrastructure and gifting it to the usual suspects with the likelihood that we’ll be gouged later down the line and that is why I marched yesterday with the other self employed members of my family.
            And don’t forget that little gem a now deceased Finance Minister said only a few short years ago, “this will be the cheapest bailout in history.”
            http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/now-is-the-time-to-begin-fightback-26722214.html

          4. Rep

            Yeah, we have somehow managed to go from one of the most expensive to one of the cheapest. Shows a distinct lack of backbone by the government and would make you think they pulled the original price of their arses.

        3. Conor M

          Hi there, Stoneybatter resident and builder and rigger here. I’ve been out the past week at 6am before work, with my locals before we have to head off to live the rest of our day. The support has been amazing from smiles and messages of support to tea, biscuits and all sorts of other goodies. There’s actually very few of us as a lot of the locals are very elderly and most of us work regular hours.

          Nobody is using end-of-the-world language around here. And we’ve had pretty good relations with the workers (and the private security that are all over the streets the past two weeks) up until they starting to intimidate us when we’re alone; when coming out of our houses or on the way to work. Today one of the camera-obsessed private security guards happily told me ‘we know where you live’, as if that’s supposed to scare me in my own estate.

          Needless to say, the vast majority of us are hard-working home owners with something to say, and we’re willing to stand up against the water tax and the installation of meters at our homes. Just because you’re either right-wing, conservative – or perhaps you’ve been listening to Dennis O’Brien’s media for too long – it doesn’t mean that we don’t have jobs. Also, that accusation is getting a bit tired, today one of the workers told me to ‘go have a wash’, because I was wearing my work cloths, and another told me to ‘go get a job’ as he looked down at my work pants and boots.

          Anyway, solidarity to everyone resisting the meters and tax everywhere. And sorry to ‘Yournan’ for disappointing you with being fully-educated and fully-employed, and jaysus would you guess that we have labourers, teachers, health-workers, social-workers, milk-delivery drivers, NGO-workers, rail workers, small business owners, technicians, university lecturers, artists, writers, OAPs, students etc on the pickets throughout the day? I really am sorry to hear your disgusting view of ordinary and good people who don’t always do what they’re told to do.

  2. Brian

    I’m a Stoneybatter resident and was moreso intimidated by the protestors who decided to blockade my gaffe.

  3. cousinjack

    Gardai now equals corporate enforcers, perhaps this is why FG don’t want them to follow ethical policing practice (as is demanded in NI)

    1. Medium Sized C

      It has been on offence to interrupt or harass people who are employed to work on the water network since 2007.

      So they are more, enforcers of the law.

    2. Mister Mister

      ” while Irish Water’s private security filmed protestors unimpeded by Gardaí.”

      Gobshites. It’s what you guys (a small section of Dublin who say’s not to paying for anything) do all the time and you don’t seem to have a problem ?

      It’s not illegal to film in public anyway.

      1. Dandy

        Yes but why would a worker not be arrested for filming and a civilan was arrested for the same action ? i think that was the point being put across here

          1. Mister Mister

            It’s not Mister Mister (Capital M) that’s exaggerating, being hysterical and generally making things up.

    1. Dandy

      Oh yeah , and spending the money due to be spent on installing meters on actually fixing the leaking pipes wouldnt constitue the conservation of water would it not ?

      1. Paolo

        Is that really your objection? How do you know how much water is leaking from a pipeline if you have no idea how much water is coming out the other end?

        Go on genius. Amaze me.

        Step 1. Establish accurate metrics
        Step 2. Identify the problem areas
        Step 3. Resolve the problem

        1. Dandy

          You dont need meters outside every house to achieve this , you can have them at strategic points and get the readings required . if they dont already know this , where did the figure of 40 percent of the water currently leaking come from?

          1. Dandy

            Are you sayign its impossible to sort out the leaky pipe issue without installign a meter in every single household , really ? Youve evry little faith in our wondeful engineers if so

        2. cousinjack

          Household meters would only potentially detect leaks on customer side, as we already know most leakage is on utility side.

          1. DoM

            No, having metrics for every household would allow you to very (well, relatively) easily establish where in the network the leaks are. This could also be accomplished with fewer meters throughout the network, but then you wouldn’t get the conservation effect of people who waste water (eg leaving a tap on to stop pipes freezing) actually paying for all that water.

          2. ahjayzis

            There is no conservation effect. it’s all but impossible for someone to use so little water as to come out below the flat tax they’ve introduced. And then you get 100 quid in a conservation payment.

            Anybody who thinks there’s a scintilla of conservation in the IW setup at this stage is deluded. It’s a tax.

          3. cousinjack

            DoM your ascertion would be correct if the water system was gravity fed, but it is pressurised, this is to ensure that supply customer side is not effected by small mains leakage, so the metering of household shas no discernible effect of leak detections accept where leak is castastrophic. Thats why there are plenty of companies making goood money finding leaks across the world in metered and unmetered lands

        1. Dandy

          Apparantly they already know that 40 percent is leaking out, how was it possible to know this given your take on it ?

          1. Medium Sized C

            Given my take on it?

            You appear to know absolutely nothing about how this works.
            Which is cool, its not my job to explain water engineering to you.
            But here is the thing, these are estimates based on the limited existing metrology.

            There are meters at various points in a network and meters leaving the supply reservoirs and treatment centres. They measure flowrate pressure etc at each point and calculate the rate of water loss based off that.
            They then extrapolate.
            That is why the figures quoted are 40-60%, because they don’t know, but they do know its not less than 40%.

            If you have a road and you meter at the point where the duct for that road leaves the main, and there is a meter at each end of the road, you get an idea of how much water is being taken from the duct between the meters. That encompasses leaks and consumption.

            If you know the consumption at every house, you know how much of the water coming from the system is leaking.

            If the difference is within a reasonable tolerance, you know you don’t have a serious leak. If there is a big difference, then you know something is amiss.

            Similarly if you have 40 houses on one duct, and you can meter the consumption at each house, you can then profile the losses from house to house, so if you have a leak under that street, you don’t have to tear the whole street up looking for it. Of course, you don’t actually have to do that now, but metrology is a lot better than the other methods.

            Basically more metering means more data.
            Which is more often than not true for any activity that you can meter.

        2. Meadville

          Water Meters only give a reading of the water usage on the property they are installed for. A meter’s reading can be used to determine if there is a leak on the property, if the reading is abnormally high, but they can’t be used to find leaks in the distribution pipe system itself.

        3. cousinjack

          Medium C, you are wrong, hosehold meters provide no means of detecting utility side leaks, like all meters they simply record what passes through them,
          There are specialist devices for detecting mains leaks, none of which use householding metering

          1. Medium Sized C

            I am not wrong.
            As explained above, if you know how much water passes through something, you know how much water passes through something.

            The specialist equipment is really not very good outside a local level.
            That is what metering is for.

          2. cousinjack

            You are wrong because they aren’t installing meters on the main, but on the household connections. If meters were on mains you would be correct.
            I do know a bit about metering analytics btw

          3. andyourpointiswhatexactly

            I know eff all about anything you guys are on about, but this is fierce entertaining.

    2. Jess

      Hahahaha. Oh you!

      If you think this is remotely about conservation then you are spectacularly naive. The latest amendment to the water charges means there is zero incentive to preserve water.

      If it was they would have it free up to a certain usage point and charge after that. But they are doing the opposite, pay up to 160 and nothing after that.

      Then if you think that this money will go to the leaks instead of paying bonuses to IW employees who get them even if they underperform, what incentive do they have to repair the leaks?

    3. Odis

      @ Paolo “We need meters in order to conserve water”

      > Implying people waste water
      > Implying we live in ******** Saudi Arabia or somewhere.

      We need water meters as an excuse to extract more money from the overburdened citizens of this country.
      So the tax money currently spent on water can be used to pay back German bankers or Junior bondholders or whatever rich ***** are flavour of the week with our spineless politicians.

      1. DoM

        We still have to pay to treat water, even if there’s a lot of rain.

        And yes, lots of people waste lots of water.

        1. Jess

          If it was about conservation we’d be charging them for the wastage. This regime does the opposite, it charges to a certain level and then stops. The conservation argument has nothing to back it up

        2. Dandy

          and you dont think theres any other way of changing the mindset of water consumption then metering everyone and also continuing to tax them for the same privilage , no other way … literally nothing else ….. ? ,….. spending billions on what lets face is bound to be a private company down the line sounds like a fantastic solution to you ? Theyve already sold off the rest of our natural resources , why on earth would you trust they wont do the same here yet again

        3. Odis

          @ DoM “We still have to pay to treat water, even if there’s a lot of rain”.

          Our taxes currently pay to treat water.

          You obviously failed to read that point that I made in the last part of my comment above.
          Such was your hurry to accuse the citizens of this country of wasting water. Dungliege.

        4. cousinjack

          The costs of treating Irish rainwater are low, it is the capital cost of the provision f infrastructure that is expensive (pretty much same for all utilties). So if you were able to buy the inbfrastructure cheap, the profits to be made are massive (hello Dennis)

          1. cousinjack

            I should have said that governments can borrow money for capital investments cheaper than anyone else, so it makes sense for governments to own utilities and either keep utilities cheap or provide for other expenditure through pricing these services. For example Ireland had one of the lowest electricity rates in the EU before competition was introduced and now has one of the highest (although 50% less people are employed in power generation and transmission)

    4. Conor M

      There’s a cap on price, there is no conservation. How many times do people need to hear this before they stop repeating the nonsense they hear.. in fact, where did you hear it’s about conservation?

  4. Just sayin'

    “Dublin says no”? – nice of them pretending to speak for us all. I’ll never understand how human rights are affected by the installation of water meters. I’m sure people in Honduras, China and North Korea would be intrigued.

      1. Shockabilly

        I’ve heard this mentioned by anti-water charges campaigners and I’d like to understand how not paying for water is assured by the Constitution – not saying it isn’t so, I’d just like to understand how a right to have water piped to your home is enshrined in the constitution.

    1. Conor M

      Just a quick click and you would see that they were sharing the ‘Stoneybatter against the water tax’ FB page post. The locals who were there today, and the past few days at 6am, are speaking for the area. I’m a resident here and I’ve been happy and proud to go out with my neighbours.

      What’s the craic with people arbitrarily bringing up North Korea as if they give a s**t? Have you ever organised a demo against North Korea, or a protest to support the people who live there? An island of right-wing wingers…

  5. Looking In

    Wow zero independent thought here, maybe you should go check out North Korea sounds like you’d be at home there.

    ‘ I’ll never understand how human rights are affected by the installation of water meters.’

    Make it your business to understand, a simple google search will offer you an array of knowledge around the issue or perhaps you simply relay on a single source of information which just so happens to come from the state, conveniently pumped into your living room at 6.01pm? Anyway there’s plenty of info out there. Go have a good read and see if it’ll help you understand.

    1. pedeyw

      This kind of argument bothers me hugely: you’re not a super special thinker, Ireland is nothing like North Korea and someone having a different opinion on Irish Water doesn’t make them non thinking followers.

      1. sickofallthisbs

        Well rather than think people are outright stupid I would prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are government shills.

        1. Rep

          So anyone who has a different opinion to you is outright stupid? I bet that makes for some wonderful discussions and debates in your house.

  6. ahjayzis

    Let’s remember that without the leaks in the system, Ireland produces 40% EXCESS potable water. Our generation and consumption levels of drinking water isn’t a problem – it’s the fact we’re pumping it nearly half of it into the ground.

    This requires a capital project to fix, and I think many people believe capital projects like schools, roads, hospitals, etc. should be funded by the exchequer and not by say the people who have the kids who use the shcools alone, regardless of their income.

    Conservation is a separate issue, one not dealt with by the government’s plan and which really isn’t causing us a problem as like I said, we produce 40% more than we need anyway.

      1. Keith

        Well, instead of just being nasty about it (unless you are a troll, in which case you can ignore this), maybe it would be more productive to track down some statistics that refute ahjayzis’s argument.

        At least ahjayzis is making an argument.

        I refer you to an earlier broadsheet post: https://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/12/11/how-we-disagree/.

        Fyi, that’s you, at the bottom.

        1. sickofallthisbs

          Yes, you are right. I should take everything Ahjaysis said as the truth because it agrees with your narrow political view.

          Ahjaysis may have come up with an “argument”, but where did that argument originate? What’s more where did the figure of 40% come from? A reliable, independent source? Eh, no.

          While you can point to little pictures to satiate your limited intellect leave me out of your tittle tattle.

          1. ahjayzis

            That’s a government figure, a lower-side estimate of the amount of water lost through leaky pipes. They use that figure everytime they’re trying to sell the idea that we all need to pay a flat tax to fix the system.

            All that water lost is treated and potable – therefore since we LOSE 40% of the potable water we produce, were the network to be fixed and production to remain the same, we’d have 40% more water than we actually use.

            There’s your explanation now, my dense, rude, obnoxious, obviously-not-well little friend. Hope you feel better soon.:)

      2. cousinjack

        sick of allthisbs should educate yourself before commenting, 40% water loss is well established fact, at this point

    1. sickofallthisbs

      Well done, you can read and take in something a state body has provided. I applaud you. Maybe when the nurses beat some sense into you, you might get my point.

  7. Iwerzon

    Irish Water is not a water provider, it is a metering service company. If it doesn’t install said meters before the deadline in Jan/Feb? it ‘s contract will not be honoured. They couldn’t give a flying fubb if the meters work or not. They are even installing one meter for two houses in some instances in Phibsboro. The paths are like a warzone, heavey handed stormtroopers arriving in vans about 6:30am with the Gardai escorting them. Total disruption and destruction. Signage proclaiming ” By order of the high court …blah, blah…” (great marketing and PR btw). Shoody workmanship. A small but significant group of protesters not standing for this, hats off to you and I will be joining you next week (I’m going to take some annual leave from my very important high profile and well paid to join the protest!)

  8. sqoid

    There are leakage alarms on the household meters. If at no point during a 48hr period the water flow goes to zero an alarm will be recorded and then noticed during the next meter reading.

    All the “leakage” figures are in fact unaccounted water, a portion of which will be just unexpected use.
    From the intakes and outputs of the treatment plants, along all the trunk mains and then into District Metered Areas of between 100-200 properties with one or two metered inputs as much of the water is accounted for. If a meter reading jumps unexpectedly or the minimum flow doesn’t drop below a certain point, then leak detection crews are sent to the area.

    Currently domestic use is estimated using a Per Capita Consumption figure that is measured and updated regularly using a number of sample areas. Then the estimate of domestic use is calculated using census information and any shortfall between water entering a District Metered Area and estimated use is added to the Leakage figure.

    Here’s a jargon filled powerpoint presentation describing in a small part some of the Water Conservation ongoing in the Dublin Region
    http://water.lasntg.ie/ConferenceDetails/2009/mwc/L%20Spain.pdf

    1. cousinjack

      This would be true to some extent if there was extensive metering on the mains system, there isn’t. Low flow alarm on consumer meter is pretty much useless as mains are pressurised so low flow only occurs in ctastrophic main failure, most mains leakage isn’t catastrophic and where low pressure is recorded water companies increase pressure so as not to impact on customer service (of course in the UK the regulator fines the water companies for both leakage and non-provision of adequate service to custoners, CER don’t seem to keen on this side of the deal).

  9. sqoid

    Pressure does not equal flow. It merely provides the potential for flow.
    If you’re not running taps or filling tanks in your house, then the flow will be zero regardless of pressure.
    Main failures cause very large flows, just that the flow is in the wrong place.

    At night as taps get turned off and water use drops the pressure in the water mains increases as there is nowhere for the water to “vent”. That’s why pressure reduction is used to reduce leakage. Pressurised mains cause faults to crack and break and a 2cm crack will leak twice as much water per second if the pressure is double.

    Also there’s well over 300 meters on watermains in the DCC area.

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