Syriza leader Alexis Tsipras (top) and Syriza’s proposals for government (above).
Seems fair.
Following their election victory in Greece.
Syriza’s 40-point plan for government.
What Syriza Want To Do In Government (LinksIJSR)
(EPA)
Thanks Fluffybiscuits.
Sponsored Link
Good luck with that. No sarcasm – I really mean that.
Well that just made it sound more sarcastic.
Very reasonable but not going to fly with the lizard people of the WEF.
It’s not reasonable.
Everything there either costs money except the increase in taxes on the very rich which will not net that much because they can afford to move.
Its all expenditure increases and income cuts in a country with no money and a crappy economy.
They don’t have the money to pay for the proposed increases and they are proposing cutting their income.
Its unreasonable.
I guess that’s why the Debt Conference is top of the agenda – a debt restructuring would free up some money for public investment in the short-term, and, longer term, without the massive debt burden the economy would pick up some of its own momentum, thanks to this public investment, and provide more money for even more public investment (like healthcare, etc.). Without the massive debt burden, private investment (from outside and from within) would increase, as investing in the country would be less risky – attractive, even; this would give a further boost to the economy, providing another income stream. One of the arguments for austerity was that it would stimulate private investment in debtor economies, which would make up for a lack of public investment, both because those countries were seen to be playing ball (all that talk of ‘stability’) and because austerity would exert a downward pressure on costs for those investors. That hasn’t happened, or at least not enough of it to make up for the loss in public investment, presumably because those private investors are looking at the prospects for and growth rates in those debtor economies and figuring it’s not worth the risk. Debt servicing is strangling growth across the Eurozone, and it’s really not that radical to talk about a restructuring so that Eurozone governments have some money to invest to stimulate it (even Wolfgang Munchau in the FT says that only Syriza and Podemos have it right on debt).
Denis Staunton in the Irish Times gives a succinct explanation of what Syriza want:
‘The proposal would write off €228 billion of Greece’s €319 billion debt burden and stretch repayments over 58 years. Ireland’s €203 billion debt would be cut by €121 billion to just €82 billion, which would be repaid over 40 years. Such a deal would dramatically reduce Ireland’s annual debt-servicing bill, currently about €8 billion, freeing up more money for economic stimulus measures, public spending or tax cuts.
The plan involves no transfers of money or loans from one euro-zone country to another and Milios argues that the expanded role of the ECB is a less revolutionary idea now that the central bank has signalled its readiness to buy up private sector debt and has already massively expanded its balance sheet.’
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-ireland-should-support-greek-plan-to-write-down-euro-zone-public-debt-1.2060653?page=2
Thanks for that.
A solid point.
Thanks.
Ssssssssomething tellsssssss me to watccccch out for you.
Sorry, all I could think of was Enda’s 5 Point Plan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTISOOjeH7M
+5 x 8
THAT PLAN IS FLAWLESS
I’m just a bit unsure as to how they actually plan on doing all of that. There is a lot of expenditure planned and only three revenue generating proposals, how do they plan to pay for it all?
Loony low tax big spending socialsts. The can do what they like if they can finance it from their own pocket.
Its Kenyesian economics. The more that is spent during a recession the more production there will be and the more people in employment thereby more income tax.
It’s not really as simple as that.
In order to spend in the first place, you have to have it. Keynes assumed that state would have a line of credit available. Being a state, you weren’t going anywhere, so financial institutions would lend you the dollar, or you could print money, like the states have the last few years. Being in Euro they can’t just print money. Their plan is based on the EU giving them another haircut, which will p!ss people off because Greece got into this mess by mismanaging their own finances in the first place. They even duked the stats to get into the Eurozone!
OK i get you now, that would mean Greece wouldhave to have some line of credit available, which it doesnt really have at the moment.
Surely there is something they can learn from Ireland, like pilfering the national pension fund or issuing a few IOUs.
I was in Greece not so long ago, and discovered that nearly everywhere (shops, restaurants, hotels) all they wanted was cash. The rationale for this was simple – if the money went into the bank, they’d have to pay tax!
Syria are just a crowd of genetically modified communists, and their plan above is ridiculous. Like all socialists, they love to spend what they don’t have in the hope that their deluded version of Keynesian economics will work (it failed miserably in the 1970’s)
While there is no doubt a need for restructuring, my fear is that the usual ass***les once they have got their debt reduction will once again throw caution to the wind and start buying votes with money they don’t (ultimately) have. This creates starts in motion another cycle of debt growth.
As every good housewife knows, you can only spend what you have, and even at that you should hold onto some for a rainy day. The same goes for countries
Syriza (mod)
If the socialists’ version of Keynesian economics failed in the 70s, how would you describe the current economic theory that led to the collapse in 2008?
Unfortunately, Louis, what you say about the Greeks using cash is true, unless it’s on the mainland or in a tourist area, where most of the restaurants & hotels will accept credit cards. I lived in Greece for eight years, and it’s an accepted code of behaviour not to put all the cash through the till; instead you will be issued a receipt for your meal, or the first round of drinks, but that’s the only receipt you will see displayed on your table for the duration of your stay, whether it’s one hour or five hours, unless you request otherwise. The businesses also ring each other when a tax/ EKA man is about, then you’ll see a flurry of receipts being printed off and placed accordingly, and the staff whose EKA is not being paid by the employer, will be sent home until it’s safe to return. I had many conversations with people about the lack of infrastructure, and the state of their health system, especially on the islands, but they don’t care because they can afford private health insurance with all the cash they’ve squirrelled away, cash really is king. Also, there are hundreds of islands inhabited with varying degrees of population, which makes it difficult to police. On some islands the locals might not see a politician/civil servant from one end of the year to the next, they’re expected to go to the mainland, or to the nearest large island to conduct tax/legal business; I’ve met many islanders who’ve never been to Athens or Thessaloniki, and they have no intention of ever going. It is such a beautiful country and the people are lovely, but tax evasion is endemic within its culture, from the man on the street right up to the corridors of power.
Make the Oligarchy pay some tax?
Item #3 should send shudders through our capitalist masters.
Wish them the best of luck.
Where are they going to magic all money for that from?
Best of luck with number 3.
If you are paying €375K a year in tax out of your €500K salary I’m sure there are plenty of creative accountants out there that would help you significantly reduce your tax bill for a fraction of that amount.
Lots and lots of business meetings in restaurants…receipt waiter!!
Its 75% on income over 500,000, same as it works here really just with different percentages.
They’ll pay 40% or whatever on the first 500k and then then 75% on anything over that.
So, if they earn 550k, not taking into consideration lower tax brackets and tax breaks, they will pay 200k in tax from the 40% bracket and then 37.5k on the next 50k at the higher rate.
Congrats on your new job, the salary is 500k.
Can I have a salary of 499k
Sure!
You don’t pay tax do you?
€499,999.99 cents
What?
They still pay tax on this. If they earned €500,001 they would pay the 75% on the €1 and standard tax on the rest.
that’s not what he said. It’s 75% above the €500k point.
@ Atticus
Haven’t these Greeks even heard of “Trickle Down” Economics?
Sometimes I despair.
They’re sick of being trickled on.
That seems lovely. Tax people who earn over half a million 75% and they leave the country. People at this level usually have skills which will travel, this income tax to the exchequer, not to mention VAT, will fall drastically.
The financial transaction tax will have whats left of capital fly out of the country, reducing private investment and wealth. I have no idea what Greece spends on it’s military at home and abroad, but with the nationalization of the health service I doubt they’ll make up the difference.
They’re still in so much debt. After this, how do they expect to raise capital to keep the place going?
Most of the other changes are great and I hope they work out.
They got into this mess because they mismanaged their public finances. They got 246 billion from the EU, now they want to go on a massive reformation of their political and economic system which will essentially be funded by their refusal to pay back the cash that kept them from the brink in the first place. For the average Greek I sincerely hope that this party know what they are doing, especially as most of the cabinet and members of parliament will be brand new to this.
It’s mad interesting.
Do you understand how tax works? The 75% is on income earned over €500,000. People who ‘earn’ that much and are resident in Greece will not be able to move. That will be income ‘earned’ through ownership rather than from work and where it is earned from work (perhaps people like top surgeons and lawyers) those people will be unable to move as they will earn much less abroad.
If the income is earned through ownership, how many businesses would fold/be wound down/never start because of this? It doesn’t make sense to say that people in that position would simply have no options.
I don’t take the point that a surgeon or lawyer that earned over half a million would not be able to move abroad and earn more. It seems to me it would be extremely easy, and that there would be more of an incentive for these people considering the current situation. They may even be willing to take a pay cut, but that seems unlikely if you compare income tax rates and levels across the EU to Greece.
Yes, I understand that it’s on income earned over that amount. That doesn’t make it more competitive than other eurozone countries. I’d also be extremely surprised if the lower brackets stay as is.
A Greek lawyer will know Greek law and have a practice in Greece. A Greek surgeon will get referrals from Greek GPs and hospitals and would have to start again in another jurisdiction. Their business is in Greece.
No one would fold a business because they had to pay tax at 75% on income over €500,000.
You say you understood that the 75% rate was marginal prior to being told here but I don’t believe you.
Preach!
lots of good proposals.interesting to see how leaving NATO and closing foreign bases pan out.
Their military expenditure in 2012 was €3.272 billion so I imagine cutting that down to next to nothing will help along with some of the other cuts, they really need to do something to entice foreign investors though, it’ll be a long and arduous few years for them but many of the proposals are great and i just hope they dont bottle it
Slap a n emergency tax on capital leaving over a certain amount takes care of that,,,
So now you have restrictions on capital movement. You have no effectively frozen the amount of capital in the country indefinitely. Que massive corruption. Currency being traded for shippable goods and moved abroad. Wealth being extracted from every financial institution and kept in cold hard cash, the banks are nationalized, the state picks up the slack for all the interest which is now not being paid. Graft is a real problem in Greece, you’ve just increased it tenfold.
T.I.N.A. : the old Maggie line,” there is no alternative “
If they want to remain part of the EU (and it is possible that they don’t), they can’t unilaterally introduce restrictions on the movement of capital, no.
Their new finance minister (I think: he was very impressive with excellent English) revealed on Newstalk this morning that they’re not leaving the EU.
(might not be their decision to make)
well there’s a choice already! judging by this 45min interview with new fin min he doesn’t have much faith in the euro http://fromalpha2omega.podomatic.com/entry/2012-10-01T13_48_15-07_00
If they want to remain in the EU – which euro or no euro, they really need for the tiny bit of their economy that actually works – that’s not an option.
Dan …. you have me again.
Any links recommend for reading, my economics knowledge is not great lately!
Why does this seem so impossible to people? This is what governments used to do – y’know, govern.
Where will they get the money from? By renegotiating the bank deal and increasing taxes on the wealthy. It’s not an insane plan and pretty much every single one of these proposals the majority of people would agree with. The problem is we’re just as sh*t scared as our politicians to actually take a leap of faith and realise that creating billionaires does not a happy or productive society make.
Yeah, and there’s that whole economics thing that can be a bit tricky.
You really think that taxing ANY bracket at a 75% rate is a good idea?
worked for america in its most prosperous period http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates-2012-5?op=1&IR=T
It didn’t work because tax avoidance was rife back then. Nobody with half a brain actually paid those tax rates.
ya the i.r.s. are real slouchers.Americans have tax paying compliance rates.trickle down doesn’t work and all the tax cuts from Regan to bush 2 just put more dead money in wealthy bank accounts.
Free Healthcare for all, free school breakfasts and lunches for all children, subventions on mortgages, increased unemployment benefits, nationalisation of banks… all of those things require cash to do, and that’s not even everything they have planned. I am skeptical that a wealth tax, increased corporation tax and a transaction tax are going to raise enough revenue to pay for it all.
“renegotiating the bank deal” is a pretty wooly phrase, there is no indication that it is even possible or that it will free up enough funds to allow Syirza to pay for everything they have planned. What happens if the deal can’t be renegotiated? Default? Could that have serious repercussions in the future? What happens if the revenue streams don’t work out if the wealthy, corporations and their capital flee the country?
I wonder how long the Greek people are going to give Syriza to implement all this becuase its going to take time. The changes wont come easy and without a line of national credit for every sector that benefits another must lose.
“increasing taxes on the wealthy”… surely you mean “start taxing the wealthy”
Seriously, was this document written by broadsheet commenters?
There’s a lot of ridiculous items there, particularly the financial ones. Good luck with that (and unlike above, that’s a disparaging remark.)
ABM said its cold and has asked you go back to bed ;)
Hope you’re paying attention to the posts made by the adults Fluffy, you might learn something.
Did you not see the wink at the end :p
You are assuming you said something worthwhile…how wrong you are!
Rotide’s comments are generally more worthwhile than your fluffy nonsensical politics FB! Meeeeeeeooooooooowwwwwwww
“31 Facilitate the re-union of immigrant families”? Send the buggers home (and pay for their ferry tickets)?
Jock/Banotti are you looking for the comments section of the journal or boards.ie?
You’re a day late and a dollar short.
You’ve been found out as clueless twice here so maybe you should find some pop culture post to comment on.
…and be equally clueless there?
Jock Im not the one with the split personality buddy
The response of a man that has nothing to offer.
No, they are critically reading the manifesto that you posted. One of the Syriza candidates accused the former premier of being the head of ‘a Jewish conspiracy’, so I think that questioning their views on race and immigration is very pertinent.
Have a link to that?
They dropped him as a candidate.
However their partners in government have made antisemitic comments recently
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_05/02/2014_537125
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/greece-syriza-coalition-partner-independent-greeks-claimed-jews-buddhists-muslims-dont-pay-1485162
Here’s that link you were looking for earlier.
http://www.economicsforsimpletons.com
In fairness you never let ignorance get in the way of a firmly held opinion.
Sorry Im not aware Banotti which person it is now Im talking to…
May I suggest UKIP if you wish to meet like minded village idiots…..
You’re trying to lash out but you have no ammo so you settle for the dual account thing despite me always being open about it. My poliitics are far from UKIP but it’s an easy accusation to make you seem credible.
How up to date is that manifesto? Recent comments suggest NATO withdrawal off the agenda
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-14/syriza-massages-foreign-policy-goals-as-it-smells-power.html
I see also previous commitment to legislate for gay coouples have been withdrawn as apparently there is a lack of scientific consensus on the issue.
Independent Greeks want church run schools , it must be a concession from Syrzia perhaps?
This, is SPARTA!!!!!!
Eh, no this is Stoneybatter.
My critique of his requests….
1. Fairly reasonable and likely to happen, though not as big a ‘help’ as he makes out
2. Never going to happen. Would require treaty change, and actually, most of Europe would vote it against it. Temporary QE is just about acceptable.
3. Did this work in France? Nope, have since reversed it.
4. Fine
5. Fine
6. A tax on luxury goods? Why should people have to pay more for nice things? Classist nonsense.
7. Fine. But will make zero difference to anything.
8. Fine (though unlikely to help unemployment in the near term
9. Capital controls? Inconsistent with membership of the EZ.
10. Fine (though again, unemployment….)
11. Suggests a reasonably high minimum wage. Again, not good for a country with major uemployment issues.
12. Fine
13. Fine, but obviously this is gonna cost quite a bit
14. Fine, but obviously this is gonna cost quite a bit
15. Obviously this is gonna cost quite a bit, and why do they have such big mortgages?
16. Fine, but by how much? Very few people against social welfare supports, all a question of cost/level.
17. Fine
18. Why? If they’re private property, why should they be nationalised (unless they have cost taxpayer more than taxpayer gets back)
19. Why, they are private property? Unless its just simple forced purchase at fair market value. And the mail is not a strategic growth sector, quite the opposite actually.
20. Fine.
21. No issue in theory, but reckon its a nightmare to enforce and filled with people of lessor quality complaining that they don’t get paid more than their (coincidentally) better fellow employee of the opposite sex.
22. Not gonna help unemployment
23. Fine
24. Fine
25. Fine in theory, though red tape in a dysfunctional and inefficient economy doesn’t sound like a great idea
26. Fine
27. Fine
28. Fine
29. Didn’t these demonstrations end up with people being killed? I reckon police should be allowed use firearms if they deem it necessary. They’re best to make the call.
30. Given free travel within EU, this seems problematic v-a-v other countries.
31. Given free travel within EU, this seems problematic v-a-v other countries.
32. Fine
33. Fine
34. Fine
35. Why ban private citizens from spending their money freely?
36. Again, why nationalise private property that is not impacting on everyone else?
37. You’re part of NATO/EU, with that comes a common foreign policy at times.
38. Fine if that’s what you want
39. Fine
40. Fine, again though unlikely to help with economic revival
Its quite a tame programme, and indeed the opting out of NATO
is more than realistic given that one of the main members of NATO
Germany are the very country that advocate austerity, yet they them
themselves were the first under Hitler to repudiate war reparations
and after the War were rebuilt with US money and protected by their
Army…..the Greeks remember the German occupation and they
may well bury into history what is a Geman inspired plan to control
Europe…..in fact Greece, Spain,Portugal,Italy and Ireland have the
trump cards….they need to gang up on Germany, Finland and Holland
Where stands the Irish Political Elite in all of this, afraid to open their
mouths lest they lose all the soft jobs in Brussels along with their
pensions and perks.
We need an Election along with the Referendum in May…..there is democratic
response on the way and we need to get it under way in Ireland too.
“they may well bury into history what is a Geman inspired plan to control Europe”
ALERT! ALERT! Danger will robinson, Danger!
They are not going to pull of NATO.
What protection does NATO give to those in Greece
tramped into the ground by austerity…not even soup.
Grand. You pull of NATO.
Syriza won’t pull Greece out.
Greece shares a border with Turkey, who share a (porous) border with Syria & Iraq.
Greece is one of the country’s with the clearest benefit of being part of NATO.
As I read this all I could think was VenezuelaVenezuelaVenezuela…
and Venezuela had oil……
This will not end well.
its all greek to me.
feta love of god, stop with ta puns..
Well the good news is that holidays to Greece are likely to become a hell of a lot cheaper.
Lots of nice reasonable stuff down the list there but it will all come to naught when they can’t pay their bills which is going to be the end result of their economic plans as a result of points 1 and 2.
+1
Where is the AAA’s proposals for government, o wait I found it.
1. Get rid of Austerity
2. Abolish Water Charges
3. More tax the Workers
That’s it.
I’m sick of asking AAA folk for their proposals for government, they lock up as soon as I ask em.