And Ciaran should know
His plight touched the hearts of thousands after receiving a 51% rent increase in one month.
Even some landlords expressed sympathy.
But what happened next may chill your very soul.
Ciaran writes:
Felt obliged to follow up with you after my post last week in the property search, now I know this sounds like a blog but need to let the blind see what I see…
My girlfriend and I have been looking nonstop for an apartment/house since we received the news of our rent increase.
We have viewed about 8 properties in the last 2 weeks (please note these viewings are at 5-6pm and your average person is in work at these times) This is causing a lot of stress around work asking for all of this time off.
Every property we viewed and liked was snapped up on a first come first serve basis (accounting all your references checked out). Every place we looked at had a huge amount of people in an open viewing style arrangement. This really is a dog eat dog business and we learned that if you are not pushing on the landlord or tenant agents you will get nowhere.
Last night we viewed an apartment with at least another 100 people!
There was a queue down the street and there was a queue to give your reference to the agent, we got pushy and stayed back to get some one on one private time. (we needed to stand out)
He confirmed that once our references checked out this would be fine and to call him later that evening to pay the deposit.
I called him a few hours later and he confirmed everything was fine and to pay on their website – which we did, we PAID a deposit of €1300 for a 1 bed in Dublin2.
I organised through work to take the Friday off and hired a van also as we have gathered quite an amount of possessions since moving into our current place. We also informed the current landlord who had agreed the date and the final payment, return of deposit and general clean-up of affairs.
Please note also that the building is being refurbished so I am guessing he has booked builders to complete the work asap since we informed him of the news.
I received a call first thing his morning from the agency (Lowe property) who stated they received a higher offer and they were going to take it.
I at this point lost it a bit as that €1300 deposit (the asking price) means nothing, they had received a bid for €1500 and said – “Can you match it”?
I cannot afford to pay €1500 for a 1 bed apartment nor could I justify paying that, the market has gone out of control and there is no regulation behind it.
I called the PSRA {propert service regulator) and they stated there is nothing they can do, they had stated that this letting agency and others have played this card more often recently.
Now this just gives me even less hope than before that even if you get past finding a place, get past the queues, get past the ref checks, get past the paying your deposit you are still not guaranteed that the place is yours.
Can any regulation be placed in this market at all? Does anyone care? Imagine getting excited about moving somewhere new……. Never again. Now I do not want to sound like a broken record but place yourself in my boots and feel this frustration.
Previously: The 51 Per Cent Rent Rise
We need to socialise ALL housing.
rep, what exactly does that mean?
I believe he means all housing should be the possession of the state, and all people should be tenants of the state.
Or maybe replace state with municipality or county or some other centralised body.
I think Rep just wants a free house.
The lotto is 10 million tonight.
communisn?
They have this system in Cuba.
ya he the want country to be more like a communist state, a great idea NOT
Did toy just use ‘NOT’?
That nobody can make a profit from renting out properties. That people have a security in their houses until they die. That mortgages be outlawed, and that all housing is controlled by the people.
Thanks for clarification comrade. I’d like to control one of those beauties on Ailesbury Road.
No problem, but they’ll be subdivided just to let you know.
You’d probably be better off knocking them and replacing them with appropriately sized low energy apartment complexes.
Subdivide? Don’t think so comrade. I have 15 childer you see, and 8,000 sq ft would be just about big enough.
But tell you what, if the cooperative/soviet green-lights me one of those beauties, you can all come round on Sundays to play in the 2 acre garden
My treat just to say thanks.
Rep are ya just gonna over look the comrade comment there, u do realise ur idea is a communist one.
F**k that i aint giving my house to the state so they can f**k it up. Regulate rental markets would be a better line.
Said it before – if the State wants to nationalise my colosso-mortgage, I’m all in favour!
i’m pretty sure your mortgage has been bundled, leveraged and sold on to someone else at this stage, with the debt already part of our repayments to the ecb. so in a way, it already is nationalised. so why are your paying for your gaff twice?
I’m pretty sure it hasn’t.
Maybe you should look outside of D2 for somewhere to rent. You get much more for your money in D15.
I cannot even begin to describe how spectacularly you have missed the point here.
they might have missed the point, but I was thinking the same thing. This guy is thick looking for rental properties in D2 if he’s having so much trouble. If he wants to get a good deal renting he should look at properties that are being let by the owner and not an estate agent. Estate agents are absolute fupptards when it comes to negotiating rent. Enough of the angry email writing, cop on and rent somewhere outside the city centre if you want to stand a chance.
Your one brain cell is lonely.
The man paid a deposit and secured a rental unit.
Obviously he is not ‘thick’ in that despite how apparently difficult it is to secure accommodation in his chosen locale he was yet somehow able to make a contract to that aim. You on the other hand are not only ‘thick’, you are ‘dim’, ‘unintelligent’, ‘braindead’ and/or ‘anal’ or ‘all of the above’.
hahaha lovely
Not really, part of the issue is the price (€1500 pm). You would not pay €1500 pm elsewhere, even if they were gazumping people. So the point has not been entirely missed and the comment is still relevant.
D15? Shur, why don’t all those young ones rent or even buy in those lovely commuter towns outside of the capital. Oh wait…
Or Tullamore, just 55 mins from Heuston station by train.
My understanding is that once you give a deposit this is more or less the equivelant of a contract as they have accepted it therefore they must go with it. I would get on to Threshold about this
Cork: 021 4278848
Dublin: 1890 334 334
Galway: 091 563080
yep, he had a contract and should threaten to sue on it seeking specific performance.
Thats what I would have thought too
This law student would second that. You made an agreement for a specific service at a specific price. You gave money for a deposit, which is consideration, and it’s clear that there was an intent to form contractual relations. How do you not have a contract for 1300 a month?
Totally. Please threaten to take a case against them Ciaran – for everyone’s sake.
You will be able to apply to them for the costs of trying to find another apartment which you should record assiduously and for general damages.
He should and look to make an example of him
its a deposit like buying a house, subject to contract/contract denied. sh&&y and unfair but that’s life. tenants often find better places and want the deposit returned and messes up agents and landlords and unless tenanrts pays a “booking deposits” which can be different.
It might be the case where the estate agent is legally obliged to pass on a higher offer to the landlord? Even if that were the case, they should have stuck with the offer for which they received the deposit.
That is besides the point, once a deposit has been given I would have thought of it as been an offer and him taking it as an acceptance
It is not besides the point – it is probably the fact of the matter and the cause of his problems. I think once they accepted the deposit, that should have been that, but I suspect not.
Tallaght as well.
Im signed up to daft.ie property alerts, minute something comes up we like we are on top of it like a hot snot
wow fluffy ur thinking outside the box, jaysis sure no one else does that. GROANNNNNNN
You may be looking for boards.ie
When will someone with the gravitas and authority call it for what it is: Ireland is mired in a full-blown housing crisis.
(nothing but sympathy for Ciaran, shelter is the most basic need, he did everything right and he’s now about to become homeless – yes, he’ll stay with family or friends or in an hotel, but he is technically homeless. That’s what things have come to in this country)
I agree with you. There is a massive housing crisis. To call it anything else is to belittle what people like Ciaran and his girlfriend are going through. And they are just two of many. I had to leave Dublin because I could no longer afford my home county. I have a permanent job and excellent references but they’re worthless without the funds for exorbitant rents . I am now living in a substandard (to put it mildly!) flat in a town where I know no one. And I am doing better than a lot of people on the housing front!
Hear, hear. Went through this when moving to Dublin back in August. We got lucky in the end by dealing directly with the owners of the apartment my boyfriend and I rent. In my opinion the various letting agents bear a lot of responsibility for this, they’re effectively engaged in non-competition which I’m vaguely sure is against the law. The agents just seem to be horrible people too, when we were looking we were treated with neither courtesy nor respect by the letting agents. They were frequently late, couldn’t answer questions about the property, schedule dozens of people to see properties you couldn’t fit twelve people in. Half the ads say enquiries by email only but they don’t respond to the emails anyway. One letting agent actually laughed when I said we were interested and told us “you and everyone else” and then simply never got back to us regarding our application. Whatever about regulation they could at least have some common decency.
+ 1 and Lowe are among the worst offenders.
Have been in the same place for just over 3 years, I’d like to move to get more space but the way things are now it ain’t gonna happen and I’m more or less stuck there. The silver lining is that the landlord (a company not a person) haven’t upped the rent in the 3 years but am living in fear that they will and will be a price I’m not willing to pay. If so then it’ll be hello Wicklow, Kildare or Meath cause Dublin is just gone too expensive, unless u want to live in a shit area and I don’t want that as i like my car and my family.
Ciaran sign up to the daft.ie alerts too. There is a few places in Tallaght that are going for reasonable, now its Kiltipper which is a little out of the way but there seems to be no problem there getting a place, know its out of the way a bit bit hope that helps.
Im flat hunting too. Have references with me and one from the landlord
Hey Ciaran, That’s a fupping disgrace, really sorry to hear it, definitely speak to Threshold. Estate Agents are the new bankers, lol
The contract needs to be in writing, I work in property and every communication is ‘subject to contract’, ultimately the landlord is the client of the letting agent. Its very poor (if not downright questionable) behaviour by the agent who must take their instruction from their client. We’re regularly seeing 6-12 months rent paid upfront and rents being bid up from a asking +10-20%.
Demand is absolutely massive in the city at the moment with no supply side relief due for years. There are major issues affecting entire sector, no obvious silver bullet either…
What baffles me is how this happened. The population of Dublin hasn’t increased much (if at all with emigration compensating for people coming here from the rest of the country), businesses have vacated properties and I’m pretty sure I didn’t hear about half the city burning to the ground overnight. How is there suddenly such a shortage of supply and increase in demand?
Seriously, I’d really love to understand how this situation has arisen. Can broadsheet do a sit down/phonecall/facebook messenging session with seanban like you do with Legal Coffee Drinker and tell us what this is all about?
Ten of thousands of households are formed every year (c. 40k pa I heard recently) and we haven’t built in 6-7 years in the capital, supply is so constrained in the city where the jobs / growth is. Additionally theres no traditional release as renters evolve purchase to starter homes so the log jam is just made worse.
Could never match LCD’s prowess but happy to oblige…
I still don’t follow. How are 40k households created without a population increase? Do you mean larger households split off into smaller ones? But how does the fact that there’s no building affect that? We managed to house the same population in what the amount of housing we had before, how come we can’t house a smaller population now all of a sudden?
Smaller population?
@Sephenenny demographics; the original post WW2 baby boomers kids have been reaching a household formation age; boy meets girl (or any combination of that is regarded as a household) and boy HAS to get out of his parents gaff…time, in this instance has created demand….in this example boy is a Jackeen where (practically) nothing has been built for seven years…there are other factors including the fact that our national housing stock is becomes redundant… just like people, property expires too. We expect more efficient property now, we also have higher expectations as to what standard is acceptable. The pre ’63 (old houses converted to flats) stock that supplied low quality, low cost accommodation has also been phased out when nothing was phased in….
Demand for rental property exists and in time, it will be satisfied, but its takes ages to fulfil that demand, lead in time and construction finance are the biggest barriers to rents stabilising
While it is advisable that contracts are in writing, there is absolutely no legal requirement that a contract be in writing, and indeed, the vast majority aren’t.
Just called Threshold there and apparently they can do it, its only once you sign on the dotted line its yours.
Fluffy, don’t disbelieve you, but what was that transaction about then? Why did Ciaran give €1300 to the agent? What was Ciaran receiving in return. From the above, I gather Ciaran thought he was getting a guarantee that the property would be his, not that the agent would call back five minutes later saying he wanted another €200 or Ciaran could go sing for the property.
So, what does deposit mean in this instance? Is there not an implied contract – “I’m agreeing with you that the monthly rent for the property you’ve shown me is €1300 and I’m giving you €1300 in return for you not renting the property to anyone else”
I’m pretty sure the deposit is the deposit you put down as security against you ending the lease with early or costly damage to the property on departure.
I’m not sure it has anything to do with the transaction with the agent.
Which is not to say the agents weren’t shi1heads or anything
Deposits mean nothing – just look at buying a house, a 10,000 deposit means nothing – they are all subject to contract. otherwise the buyer / renter could not pull out if the written contract contained something unexpected.
It really depend on the preecise facts of the case.
If the agent said something like ‘yes it is now yours’ in return for the consideration of the deposit then not an implied but an actual contract was definitely in place.
There is what is legally allowed and what is morally correct. If a deposit is paid then the estate agent was a complete ar53H0le to pull out of the deal. Lowes should be boycotted for the filthy scroungers that they are.
threshold are a waste of space, self serving quango who were happy to threaten me over a complaint a tenant made but didn’t want to know when they got the photos of damage caused by tenant, letters of complaint from neighbours and mgt company.
You don’t know what Quango or self-serving means.
quasi non governmental organisation, ez.
Are you the Ollie landlord in and around UL?
You’re a waste of space.
dude, that’s just disgraceful behaviour from a letting agents but unfortunately they can do this under the legislation as i presume you hadn’t actually signed a lease at that stage. keep at it tho, you’ll get sorted in the end.
i’d be onto alan kelly and paudie coffey with this and i’d be very interested in their response. if kelly had even half a clue he’d allow the PRTB more authority to be a proper regulator, to oversee rental prices and rent supplement payments in conjunction with local authorities. landlordism should be consigned to the 19thC where it belongs, it truly is the lowest form of capitalism.
Ciaran, you have my sympathy. I’ve been down a similar path and know the stress all too well. I hope you find something very soon. Best of luck to you and your girlfriend.
+1
The Lowe Associates payment form is very, very questionable.
It gives you absolutely no idea what you’re paying for, nor does it give you any of the conditions of a contract that you’re entering into.
You should contact the consumer association and the media.
The CEO of Lowe is regularly in the media, so he will have no problem talking to journalists about why his booking form is verging on the illegal.
May I point out the obvious and say that he has contacted the media.
Wow, sorry to hear of your woes Ciaran. How bloody, massively shit for you both!
It’s this sort of thing that’s making Dublin an undesirable location. Myself and my partner have been hoping to move back (from the UK) for a year now and while the job market is one concern (thought seems to be on the up) the rental market is a whole other nightmare. We can’t justify paying this kind of rent, and that kind of fecking about by agents is a massive deterrent.
It’s very unethical and thanks again Ciaran for your informative posts.
+1
A total disgrace that they backed out when you’d paid a deposit. I’m sure you have a case.
Try to avoid estate agents. Find landlords renting directly, if you can. Estate agents only goal is to increase the rent and their yield and a lot of them will lie and exaggerate as much as possible to do this.
A hundred people at one viewing is proof that there is a drastic supply problem.
charge them money lender interest rates on your deposit!
Brilliant.
Send the boys around.
I like your idea! Put some T&Cs with the payment
Do you not have to bribe the letting agent with a fruit basket or am I just remembering an episode of Seinfeld or Friends?
WTF is a Seinfeld, grandad?
Bite me, whippersnapper.
Outrageous stuff. Need rents controls now. If you are renting a place, can only go up by x amount per year.
If you have had your deposit paid, should be seen as contract.
No wonder a quarter of Dublin u-25 population have left over past few years.
Or not go up at all for three years. The Irish Times described the Belgian model a couple of months ago, which sounds pretty good: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/the-lives-of-others-what-the-world-can-teach-ireland-about-smarter-living-1.2035828
Rent control is the only thing that’s going to stop this complete fleecing of desperate people… sadly the PRTB don’t agree, at all…
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/prtb-report-rent-controls-would-make-market-worse-30686749.html
They think the lads drumming up a 200 quid rise in rent over night should get tax breaks… kill me now…
That’s because the PRTB is populated by, run by and serves landlords.
That’s the exact opposite of my impression of the PRTB.
Nonsense. It is populated by civil servants, and even has tenant represetative people on its Board.
That was for @stehenenney there…
In all my years of dealing with various professionals I can honestly say that I believe that estate agents and auctioneers are some of the lowest, unethical pond scum I’ve ever had the misfortune of meeting. Think about the type of person who after their leaving cert, announces that they want to be an estate agent. My skin actually crawls when I meet one.
Cases like this occur every day of the week. Part of the issue is that estate agents are paid on the basis of the value of the property or commission on income achieved. The more they can drive a market up the better the reward. Regulating the industry and introducing strict flat fees would be interesting. As would a hunger games scenario where by we drop a bunch of them into a field full of weapons and a briefcase loaded with money.
Absolutely. They are worse in the UK. Although our place is managed by the landlord, he had to advertise through an Estate Agent. The Estate Agents charged us, the tenants, £400 for the “administration” for basically printing out the contract and doing the viewing and charged the landlord £400 for a “Finders fee” for finding him a tenant. If we didn’t pay it, we didn’t get the apartment. They have total free reign over here. It’s a disgrace.
I wish more landlords would refuse to use Estate Agents. They are not needed. There is very little effort in renting out somewhere. They do one viewing, try to inflate prices, then charge an annual commission for basically no work. Worthless scum.
Can you imagine a world without them?
http://youtu.be/Cqk-CLxrW6s
I would have to agree with you there. I recently sat beside an estate agent on the train home after work who spent the 40 minute journey on the phone to his mate talking about buyers and sellers. The language he used to describe process participants would warrant a most severe beating by most of the public. He described one prospective buyer as, and I quote, “a complete f*&kin dope who I’ll shake for 50 grand more, easy!”.
those ross o’carroll-kelly books have a lot to answer for.
I bet he had neatly trimed facial hair on his fat, sweaty face…..
This is absolutely disgraceful. And makes me very worried as I will be in a similar position in about 2 months.
While its very easy to blame landlords I think Letting Agents have a significant part to play in this. Ultimately it is in the Letting Agents interest to get the highest possible rent for a property. Higher the rent, higher the % cut they receive.
There needs to be some form of regulation fast, or at least some form of public voice.
Hi Ciaran sorry to hear about your troubles, but to be honest why do you need to live in town if you go out a bit further to harolds cross, inchicore, dundrum, rialto, there are loads of cool 3 bed houses for the same price you where going to pay for a one bed apt.
Didn’t fluffy get gouged to feck in Inchicore recently?
…is that a gay thing, father?
I did not know this, hope he is ok, i didn’t say it was the safest but its certainly cheap. To be honest i lived in some crap parts of the city while i was renting because the cheaper the better but it allowed me to put the money together for a mortgage deposit. Its what you have to do to get out of the vicious rental cycle.
Gouged as in price gouged.
As in was the victim of a price-gouging price-gouger of a landlord who price-gouged him.
Its a less polite way of saying he was rack-rented.
Well there are some really nice parts of the core that the houses are much sought after but there are parts that they are very cheap and thats what id be going for.
Howdy!
Saw some pooholes recently and met the agent who was selling the tip with mould all over it and wall paper hanging off and he just siad he was forced to do it (my bollix was he)
The headline is very misleading…” 51% in one month”… It’s 51% over 4 years. Which is still a lot. This business that all landlords are monsters, lowest form of capitalism, should be consigned to the 19th century, is all very juvenile populism though. People are entitled to own property. People own then for pensions, etc. some have their life savings and pensions in stocks, some in cash (bank accounts) some in gold, art, and some in property. Branding them all as evil is schoolboy stuff. Claiming all housing should be socialised, as shelter is a human right, is just beyond far fetched. Like, what does it even mean? Cash strapped governments finding the money to buy up hundreds of billions of euros worth rental properties? It really is far out. Also, by the same token, food and clothes should be “socialised”? As they are necessary to human existence? There is a housing crisis, and I do feel sorry for Ciaran and others, but landlord baiting is just stupid. (I think possibly the term “landlord” is outdated, and is reminiscent of our colonial past, especially the “lord” bit!… Which is probably where a lot of the hatred is stemming).
(I think possibly the term “landlord” is outdated, and is reminiscent of our colonial past, especially the “lord” bit!… Which is probably where a lot of the hatred is stemming).
no no, the hatred is stemming from them behaving like they’re still lords in the colonial past and treating their tenants like peasants who’s presence is only to be tolerated only so long as they line their betters pockets..
I really hope your Tatcheresque post was an attempt to troll the site, but I fear it isn’t…
The two biggest private landlords in Ireland today are Kennedy Wilson, the US investment group which owns around 1,200 flats and the Canadian outfit IRES which owns around 1,500. These feckers haven’t come to Ireland for the philanthropy, they’re here to make money off the backs of the locals. Mind you, the government is facilitating them, but yes, we are back in the 19th century when our homes are increasingly controlled by foreigners.
Yes, they are huge, but they wouldn’t do what Lowe have done. Foreign is irrelevant – it´s about professionalism, and if they treat people better than Irish landlords and agents, then good for them.
Agreed, one of the problems with single unit property owners is that their entire savings / pension is tied up with one house. So if there is a problem with renters they have no space to absorb losses or if a problem with their own fiances, they take it out on the renter.
Having a professional company should mean a proper service, maintenance, better assessment of renters and ability to deal with blips with someone properly.
The hatred is more likely to be coming from people who can no longer afford rent, I can’t see it having anything to do with a naming convention. In defence of Landlords, I’ve personally only had one terrible one. Most of them have been fairly decent. Rents will unfortunately continue to increase until people either can’t afford the prices or some kind of legislation is brought in, no more than a 10% increase per year for instance.
The issue here is the initial rent. Paris recently capped initial rents at between -30% and +20% of the median rent there (as assessed by city council).
The idea of controlling rents within a tenancy is definitely something to be looked at.
51% was the last post he submitted not this one.
There’s also the fact that a 51% rent increase over 4 years is a ridiculous amount. The increase between Summer 2011 and summer 2014 was 18%. At least according to this (I could be reading it wrong):
http://irishhouses.ie/house-price-database/average-monthly-rents-in-dublin-cork-galway-limerick.php
Seeing as you did not take care to get even the first clause in your first sentence referring to matters of fact I feel comfortable in dismissing as irrelevant the rest of your unconscionable rant against property rights.
Seriously?
That was supposed to be aimed at OP of the Thatcher post.
Eoghany
you’re obviously a property owner are you?
Ireland is a post-colonial country, one with a history of landlordism, rack-renting, exploitation etc.
When Ireland was an English colony, Landlords did the exact same behavior which we are seeing Irish landlords do now to their own people. It’s called rack-renting and it’s disgusting.
In Ireland the way it works is, if you are unfortunate not to be born with an inherited property, or land, or advantaged monetarily, or into a well connected family, you have very little social mobility. You might be lucky to have good parents who encourage you, and make sure you get a good education, and a good job so that you can have a chance- if you don’t have those things you are f*cked because Ireland is totally divided in terms of class.
If you went back far enough into people’s history in Ireland – most of our ancestors were dispossessed of land at some point, there were several centuries of colonialism which gradually dispossessed the Irish people of their land. The Englisg feudal lords, and aristocracy turned all the Irish Catholics into peasants/tenants. The problem in Ireland is- this dispossession was never rectified. When Ireland received independence, the class system which the English imposed here, was re-produced by the Irish against their fellow citizens in the form of property ownership, business, education, politics etc. So what you have now is class apartheid in Ireland which is based mainly on those who have, and those who have not. This has been going on for a century now,. Those who have not have no choice but to bend to the whims of those who have, this includes being exploited and treated like crap because they are not moneyed, better educated, connected etc. Ireland is disgustingly class conscious because we have a pecking order here which has been ingrained for generations.
you should have a gander at the poor laws from the 1840’s and see the correlation with the housing acts of today. initially established to combat the rise of the ‘sturdy beggar’, they consequently gave landlords a guilt-free way to evict tenants knowing that the state would have to provide for them. the homeless services are treated in the same way by landlords. I maintain every rental property in arrears should be taken over by local authorities or voluntary housing agency and managed properly by professionals. every landlord should be licensed. every tenancy should be for at least 4 years.
Thanks
I am familiar with some of it as I studied Irish history as part of my degree..
What we are seeing is history repeating itself..
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landed_gentry
My opinion Bob is that Irish people, perhaps more than the English have historically been their own agents of rack renting. An opinion expressed sometimes is that the rights of ‘forty shilling freeholders’ and other tenant farmers to maintain a right to occupy an acre of land alongside the dwelling precipitated the land wars of the 1800s as such farming units simply became uneconomic in the absence of the demand created by the Napoleonic wars. Hence the financing of ‘coffin ships’ by landowners in which entire families were often subsidised and incentivised to quit and allow the reorganisation of their lands into more economic holdings.
The German estate agents pull the piss altogether. Non-refundable ‘Mackler’ fee of 2-3 months rent when moving in (on top of deposit)
As they do in Spain – one nonth’s rent plus IVA (VAT)… Plus one month’s rent as deposit, plus another month’s rent as deposit as the place is ‘furnished’, despite the fact the total value of the furniture is less than a month’s rent.
For cash, of course, the sum in reduced considerably…
SALE OF GOODS AND SUPPLY OF SERVICES ACT, 1980 says that Contracts may be written or oral. It is easier to know what the terms are in a written contract but an oral contract is also enforceable in law.
I’m no LCD but that sounds like an oral contract of 1300 per month to me.
didnt mean to shout that first bit. :,)
Ah that’s just shite Ciaran.
You got gazumped.
And it will happen again
Just take yourself out of the Lowes and their ilk’s reach
Look outside Dublin
Wicklow Town?
Anyway, I see this as a heads up never to deal with Lowes
Correct. I know someone living in Wicklow town and it’s not so bad with decent commuter bus service, affordable rents and regular train service to Connolly.
In fairness to everybody, some folk don’t have the option of being that far out.
Some folk don’t have any other option and should cut their cloth accordingly.
Please refer to previous comments about misplaced sense of entitlement of the Irish people.
Shut up.
@Joe the Lion
I don’t think it’s as simple as ‘cutting your cloth’ or ‘misplaced entitlement’..
There is no social justice in Ireland, and there never has been..
Its a deeply class-divided society, and that’s why we have so much discontent now after the crash and recession. These old wounds are starting to fester, and people are sick of it..
Property speculation, land-lordism, and this kind of greed which is based around monetizing and exploiting people’s basic human need for shelter is wrong, it was wrong in Colonial times, it has always been wrong and always will be wrong. It simply cannot be justified.
With respect Bob and while you’re not arguing that the legacy of colonialism as such is the only reason, it also makes sense to look at why there is such snobbery around certain areas in rich enclaves where people prefer to live ( and pay top dollar for). My opinion for what it’s worth is that in post colonial societies folks collectively subconsciously ape their former masters, I would describe this behaviour as germane to Irish people from all social classes, not unique to sectors of inherited wealth as you contend. I would see similar levels of parochialism and inverted snobbery in many aspects of life here, not just in relation to where people live.
At Medium Sized C : in all private contracts there are two contracting parties and while there are pluses and minuses in respect of living out of town versus the city the plain fact is that it is a free choice for most. I appreciate you may have an inchoate ineptness that prevents you from presenting a more coherent counter-argument but in the meantime have reported your abusive response to moderators.
This will only ease off as new houses come on-stream. The couple of billion ear marked for housing should see any RA renters moving into social housing or families who will never be able to afford their own place. God only knows how log that will take.
god i’m so sorry to hear your experience. I do feel location wise maybe city centre maybe what is causing you the issue in terms of finance. Is there no way you would go along the dart/bus line? I was a landlord for 2 and a half years, we had a good tenant who paid on time, and in that time we left her rent at an affordable rate for her and something that wouldnt kill us paying off our mortgage. We just couldnt live in the apt (space wise) anymore so had no choice to move, but we wouldn’t dare see us profit off the rent – we didnt even come close to it, but it was important we had the right person there and to keep her there. I do think agencies are not to be trusted, but not all. – ive dealt with one – wouldn’t trust ever – and i’ve dealt with one other (Flynn & Associates) and would stand by everything positive about them. You may need to look up ad’s that you can see are put up by a person more so than an agency – ie. ignore the agency ones, go for ones put up by Jack adams – David Killbride, Maura Looney… you know. Get in the door that way, believe me when estate agents play that game, very very very very likely the owner does NOT know.
on your deposit, Please don’t transfer/hand over a deposit unless you sign something. Your basically handing over money and having nothing to fall back on. The problem is people are desperate and feel they need to do these things. You don’t. you need to go by what you need and your standards, and always remember that ok. Its somewhere your going to live probably for a good while – F those who try and rip you off. This place was not meant to be and probably would have killed you price wise. Be clever here. Suit yourselves.
+ one. Come the revolution, corrupt ‘landlords’ and their agents will be the first up against the wall?????
Ciaran, thanks again, (with respect to the annoyance you and your girlfriend have actually suffered on our collective behalf) for sharing this important and vital story with us.
Just to mention to people thinking that moving along the dart line or luas lines or out of the city center will give you cheaper rents, you are wrong.
You need to move to Arklow or Drogheda – THAT far out before rents become cheaper.. the odd property maybe in somewhere like Balbriggan .. but how many others are looking at the same properties.
In this instance its the tenants driving up the price as well. To ensure they got it, they offered above the going rate, thus raising it. This will now have set a standard which will be reflected in similar properties in the area. Unfortunately everyone has had their part to play in this, Landlord, Agent & Tenant.
(But not you Ciaran. What they did to you is particularly shitty.)
That’s like saying zero hours workers are to blame for accepting zero hours contracts.
If this tactic is typical of the culture of this estate agents, does that make this employee the Lowe-est of the Lowe?
A Chara
Is Mise
people need to wake up..
Ireland has been a landlord-gombeen paradise since colonial times and it’s still that way with Irish landlords continuing the tradition where the English colonists left off…
Irish landlords are money grabbing, exploitative opportunistic vampires and in my experience of renting for over 17 years, throughout the celtic tiger, the crash, and now this madness, I have experienced every type of Irish landlord, and there are very very few of them who are humane..
Most of them see you as merely someone who will pay the mortgage on their investment. They have no interest in anything remotely involving a business relationship with their tenant- they have no respect or value on their tenant- and Irish landlords are the worst when it comes to attending to problems such as fixing appliances, leeks, damp etc. Some of the places I have had to rent over the years you wouldn’t house a dog it. It’s simply disgraceful carry on. They know people are desperate, and they exploit this gleefully. Irish landlords should be ashamed of themselves considering our history, Karma will have a very special way of dealing with those B*stards..
sorry typo.. “Leaks” not “Leeks” …
I agree with everything except the karma bit.
This family lost its life living in a landlord-gombeen paradise
Can you get Legal Coffee Drinker to give a synopsis if money is handed over for that deposit like Ciaran did then there is a contract in place ? These law notes might help http://www.citycolleges.ie/wp/wp-content/uploads/Contract-law-night-before-notes.pdf There is four stages I understand, offer, acceptance, consideration and then intention to create legal relations. Look at the last one. Come on!
We had rent control, and the landlords got together and took a constitutional case and had it removed. Maybe it’s time to look at that case again and see if we have a different attitude to what’s constitutional and what isn’t.
I have been a renter and a landlord in Australia. The system is a lot better regulated. IReland could just copy what happens in Victoria, things would be a lot better.
http://www.tuv.org.au/
If only it was that simply. Unfortunately regulation won’t come in soon as the powers that be don’t have the stomach for it. A major part of the problem is the fear that the own to let mortgage market is waiting to collapse. The amount of debt on banks book is so great that they are happy for this to continue. Feel sorry for this guy and girlfriend but maybe move home for a while and save and buy. ( not everyone’s solution I know)
Fupping gouging scum of the earth w*nkers.
Feel sorry for this couple and the many that suffer the same. I have been a landlord for many years now. I think though the problem them and so many face is location!! Location is key for life style etc but if you don’t want to pay a premium price then maybe you need to cut your cloth to measure. The market isn’t fair, but unfortunately it is the market you are in. Just look on daft and even in math Kildare you can rent a 4 bed house for around 1200, 3 beds are roughly 1000. You wouldn’t spend 500 on travel. It’s not everyone’s solution but maybe people need to be looking at the alternatives.