Sé writes:
This is Maitiú Ó Casaide, Young Musician of the Year. He says:
“We are really lucky that our culture and language are still alive. The government and the West Brits are making every effort to suppress our Gaelic identity.”
Impassioned young native speaker blowing off steam?
Calm, reasoned, mutually respectful debate, anyone?
60 Soicind le Maitiú Ó Casaide (Nos magazine)
Sponsored Link
HAHAHA is there such a thing as classy bigotry?
More a reaction to bigotry.
He’s shot himself in the foot by being a bigot.
Like an anti-Semite rabbi, or a homophobic Pantibliss.
Irish speaker mentions anti-Irish bigotry, Irish speaker is therefore a bigot.
(I was gonna go for a racist Martin Luther King there, but I thought that would be overegging it a bit)
Did you actually read what he said? Because he didn’t just mention bigotry.
Nice use of one of my own habitual retorts :-)
I’m equating the suppression of our Gaelic identity with anti-Irish bigotry and giving off that for pointing this out he himself is accused of bigotry.
Nice use of one of my own habitual retorts :-)
I’m equating the suppression of our Gaelic identity with anti-Irish bigotry, and giving off that he is accused of bigotry for pointing this out.
He isn’t pointing out bigotry, he’s being a bigot.
sorry, how is he being a bigot?
Bobby, do you have your fingers in your ears and are you saying “La la la la, I can’t hear you!”. If so, continue. If not, you might as well be for all the sense you’re making.
Not sure you can class him as a bigot. Maybe just a tw@t.
Bobby, did you kill Lucy Beale as well?
“West Brits”
Trolling is not what it used to be.
He is right.
The Irish state & people have no interest whatsoever in Irish at any level.
It is merely a useful totem to be rolled out at important occasions to create a nice bromide of self-appreciation.
Like a bit of Latin in a mass – it feels nice.
The tragedy is the current generation of 4 & 5 years olds in Galway & Doneal who only speak Irish before they go to school, will the best one ever after a history 2000 years.
But that is the choice we as a nation have made.
Not all of us.
Maith an Fear
You just started with “he is right” and then contradicted him.
Your post should have started with “He is wrong”.
I could be wrong, I could be right.
I could be black, I could be white.
I could be East Paddy, I could be West Brit.
MAY THE ROAD RISE WITH YOU MAY THE ROAD RISE WITH YOU
I am confused. Are you saying that the Irish state & people are all West Brits?
Nope. I suppose I clumsily did not do a point-by-point analysis of his article.
I just picked the overall theme.
To be honest “West Brit” itself is the laziest & most archaic of labels to apply in such circumstances and indicates a very unsophisticated understanding of the dynamics of the depressed societal status of Irish.
Anyway, if it comes to it “Je suis West Brit / Is West Brit me”. I have no time for such claptrap.
Just shorthand for Anti-Irish Irish. Not the same as Anglophile.
Do you know the lad?
Because I have recently seen that phrase used against Irish speakers because they don’t come from the right part of Ireland.
To Medium Sized C:
Never met him.
Interesting. Details?
Anti-Irish(Gaeilge) Irish = Majority of Irish people.
(Same as Anti-church Irish = Majority of Irish people.)
But that is not a moral statement.
It is just a statement of the societal decision that has been made and as manifested in every facet of our culture & state.
There is not a *single* facet where the status of Irish has improved or been reinforced over the last several decades.
There is not a *single* year in which the number of native speakers has levelled off or increased.
The trajectory is down, down, down.
– The language will be moribund in about 40 years.
– The last native speaker will die sometime in around 2150.
That’s just life!
(Moribund = language is known to native speakers but not used. There are many examples of moribund languages worldwide, e.g. Australia, India, etc.)
Anti-Irish(Gaeilge) Irish = Majority of Irish people?
Wrong.
You’re confusing lack of ability to speak Irish with antipathy to Irish. Most Irish people are in favour of promoting the Irish language.
Over 70% of the 26 counties and 52% of the six counties.
Young Maitiú is not talking about non-Irish speakers. He’s talking about the government and the minority who are actively opposed to Irish and Irishness, who he refers to as West Brits.
I am impressed though that you’ve taken the time to speak with everyone on the island and also with your intimate knowledge of the future.
There are only two points in the bit quoted. Unless it’s the original article in Nós mag you’re talking about?
What the Irish people *say* and what they *do* are very different.
Do you support Irish? Yes, of course!
Do you agree with ensuring complete, comprehensive, end-to-end state services in Irish in Gaeltacht regions, and providing the budget necessary? Including hospitals, police services, etc.
For example, ensuring provision for language therapy for Irish-only speaking children in Gaeltacht regions, who at the moment must wait until they learn English before being provided critical services.
Well, no.
Next time I need to form an opinion on anything I’ll do like everyone else and give you a call, SuzD, and follow your instructions. Thanks. I’m just gonna call the President now and tell him we don’t need elections, referendums, plebiscites or opinion polls. Just ask SuzD.
Good idea!
It sure would makes things a lot simpler.
Ultach, I know you feel very strongly about this, but it does undermine the really good arguments you make when you resort to that sort of response.
Ah, you Irish. You chaps are always up for a good fight! Against each other, of course.
Thanks Old Boy. That’s not in the least patronising.
That’s not in the least patronising.
Unlike just about everything you have said in this comments section. I include a selection below –
Bobby, do you have your fingers in your ears and are you saying “La la la la, I can’t hear you!”. If so, continue. If not, you might as well be for all the sense you’re making.
I am impressed though that you’ve taken the time to speak with everyone on the island and also with your intimate knowledge of the future.
Next time I need to form an opinion on anything I’ll do like everyone else and give you a call, SuzD, and follow your instructions. Thanks. I’m just gonna call the President now and tell him we don’t need elections, referendums, plebiscites or opinion polls. Just ask SuzD.
Unlike yerself, Casey, who just happened to be passing a computer and looked in and made a quick comment but can’t stay cos you’re on your way to an orgasmatron conference and don’t have time to sink to the level of sadness needed to get into an internet argument.
Little man makes little impact with little arguements that alienate lots of people. I look forward to your patronising answer. Oh no, wait…
Fair enough.
How do you get the italics Nice Anne?
…*last* one ever.
(Maybe best too. Or worst, based on canuinti I hear.)
Less uileann. More chillin.
best comment of the day!
Ha!
A potential ‘Fleadh Fringe’ Motto.
He’s a savage musician and a sound bloke
Shame about the awl casual racism bit though but carry on regardless.
What casual racism are you talking about? Did you read a different article to me?
Is west brit a racist term now?
It’s a derogatory term used against a group of people (usually anybody from ‘the Pale’). ‘Bigot’ would be the more correct term, but ‘racist’ can also be used (primarily because it’s so hard to define ‘race’).
Its hardly bigotry as its a mocking term for a certain viewpoint. Like the american terms ‘libtard’ to ‘teabagger’. Although those are more likely to actually associate together rather that ‘west brits’ who aren’t an identifiable group.
Jess, the term may be used for people with a particular viewpoint, but it is often used as a general term for people from a whole area. I switch off when I hear the term, in the same way that I would when someone refers to culchies/boggers/chavs/scroungers/tinkers etc. It’s just a lazy way to organise a thought process, especially as the guy’s central point is a good one, and an important one to be heard. And here we are arguing about a stupid term and not the central issue here.
What racism? Are West Brits an ethnic group? Even if they are, how is it racist to point out what they are doing? Would it be racist to say that a lot of Chinese people in Belfast work in fast food catering? Or that some black people in Los Angeles like rap music? That Mongolians drink yak milk? Are these racist thinks to say?
Or is it the government he’s making a disparaging ethnic remark about? That proud people known as Fine Gael/Labour.
The West Brits are the survivors of the Fir Bolg who were scattered into Ara, Ile and Racha. There they festered their hatred of the Tuath De Dannan after their defeat at Maig Tuired.
Years later they returned and colonised the east of Erenn and held all the descendents of Gaedil Glas in contempt, poring scorn on their language and mocking their music as didly idle. They can still be identified by their bags, though they are now marked with D&G and Prada.
West Brit, an abbreviation of West British, is a pejorative term for an Irish person who is perceived by other Irish people as being too anglophilic in matters of culture or politics.
Unless, you know, he meant it as a compliment to those Irish people who don’t give a toss about a dead language. If so, a bit more elaboration needs to be made on this point.
And thats racism is it?
a …… pejorative…… term for….. …..an Irish person
Like… bogger? Culchie? Jackeen? Knacker? Frankly these West Brits get off lightly in the pejorative terms stakes.
(But it is a stupid, stupid term all the same.)
You need a new definition of racism. I really can’t believe I have to explain this but its a pejorative term for an attitude, you wouldn’t call a gaelgor a west brit would you? It only applies to Irish people because its a term made up by Irish people and we’re the only place west of Britain.
West brits are not a race or even a collection of people. Its like saying your racist against fat people, or people who hate soap operas
I hate soap operas! Did you just mention my group of people! You racist!
Except Ros na Rún, of course. But them, I must be a racist if I understand Irish.
Jess, just ring ‘ Maitiú Ó West Brit loverboy 50 shades of bagpipes’ up and ask him for a f***.
It will save you a lot of time on the internet arguing with people on the internet who really don’t care about your opinion. You being here is only a charade, one that distracts you from what you really want to do with all that passion.
Let us know how you get on.
Use some of that soap to wash yourself with you bloody Soaper! Go back to Homeandawaynia!
Oh Casey, im not really sure what your trying to say but thank you so much for your much more valuable opinion. I’ll be sure to raise my hand next time I answer somebody else on the internet and ask you if its ok.
Unlike yerself, Casey, who just happened to be passing a computer and looked in and made a quick comment but can’t stay cos you’re on your way to an orgasmatron conference and don’t have time to sink to the level of sadness needed to get into an internet argument.
Hah, if you two were not the same person, I would tell you to get a room!
Well, it’s tribalism, innit? You can equate it with kinds of racism or bigotry if you want to do some grandstanding, but more significant is the way it reflects one of the many, many divisions in our society that we prefer not to acknowledge. Actually, if you insist on equating it with racism, then you are equating political, cultural and minor geographical (but not ethnic) differences and disagreements with racism which doesn’t seem useful. Though admittedly there’s a nationalist component to this, a rejection of the further assimilation of Irish culture by UK culture and a critique of those who reject traditional Irish culture in favour of British/US culture, and of course anything remotely nationalistic is problematic because of its association with violence and radicalism. Nationalism and patriotism have a bad name with the sort of socially liberal people who constitute West Brtidom. It’s all very counter-productive. I’m maundering. Ta bron orm.
Another cracker opin Casey! I do feel myself getting smarter by just having you around.
Agus a Jess, inis dúinn cad é mar a d’éirigh leat le Maitiú. :-)
To Casey
“Hah, if you two were not the same person, I would tell you to get a room!”
Similar opinion does not equal one person. I’ll pass on the room. I’m sure Jess would definitely pass. Interesting that you veer in that direction. You’re trolling giving you a wee thrill?
An undead language, spoken by zombies who refuse to die?
His talent is clearly in evidence as he’s able to play with a chip on his shoulder and a foot in his mouth.
Its a light hearted interview where he is asked among other things ‘whats your favourite film, whats you r favourite Item of clothing’. Its not a political manifesto.
Never said it was. He’s just, like every single human being, a bit of a tool.
Well he speaks very highly of you
…..and I bet he is not even aware that you exist . And here you are arguing your little heart out on the internet for him.
Casey, why are you so desperate for my attention. Its like everytime I answer somebody else on this thread you run up behind me a pull my pigtails. I’m not interested
……and here (here) is the kicker, you answer me back. I am afraid that I do not have time in my schedules to learn the scaled cat pipes so probably its best to concentrate your efforts on is Maitiú.
Like I said, give him that call. I am sure he will pretend to know who you are. Go heavy on the countrified accent though, would hate him to think you were a ‘West Brit’ and just summarily dismiss the wonderfulness that is you and all you have to offer.
Congrats, you now get to go home and tell your mammy that you interacted with a female today.
and I bet you wonder how I know that you and “Uafásach Ni Patronising the Second” are the same person.
Casey, stop doing that, I don’t know Jess. Jess, can you confirm?
Well, this is embarrassing. Casey, could you be right? And if so, why has no-one told be before now?
Well if ye didn’t mis-spell the same words, make the same grammar faux-pas, over use commas in the same style and comment within a minute of each other, sure I would have never worked it out at all in a country mile road month of Sundays.
I am sure you are very happy together putting on the old second skin in the manner of yer man in silence of the lambs.
Yer a case, Casey. What would be the point in pretending to be someone else to same the same stuff in the same way. If we make the same mistakes it must be cos our knowledge of Irish makes us thick the same way. What say you Jess. If you exist, and aren’t me. Corrections gratefully accepted Casey.
lol “West Brits”. The “feminazis” of Gaelachas.
It’s good because it’s a cue to just switch off and ignore what the person is saying
All the pro-Gaeilge trolls are coming out ag troid? :)
Bhí mé ar an urlár as m’asal ag gáire
*Gasp* thats racist!
Get back on yerr asal and drink yer bainne.
Classic smug selfsatisfied postcolonial anti-Irish groupthink:
1. There’s a croppy that won’t lie down like us! Quick, pretend the language he is speaking doesn’t exist!
2. What’s that? He’s pointing out our bigotry. Call him a bigot!
3. Our trolling isn’t working? Call anyone who agrees with him a troll!
4. Stick fingers in ears, close eyes and repeat. Then repeat again.
5. Respond hysterically when anyone dissents in even the least re sacred bó?
That’s hysterical.
Ní mar a síltear a bhítear
You forgot the ‘we actually don’t give a poó either way’ brigade.
Nice of you to call by and take the time, what with all the other topics you don’t have an opinion on and need your input.
Oh Uafásach. You, YOU are SO welcome. I only go where I am appriciated and you and Jess seem like such warm inclusive people. I bet EVERYONE loves you.
Let’s see, you have taken swipes at:
People who carry certain brands of expensive handbags
People who do not speak Irish
People who do not agree with you
People with a ‘West Brit’ attitude
I have to admit, I am laughing at your whole attitide of “Relax, lads, it’s only biogatry against an attitude that some Irish people have and not a dislike of them themselves cos that would be RACISM and jaysus, our attitues are bad enough without going full racist altogether”
This post really need that whole sarcasim font that the internet has been banging on about. (Unless Jess/Uafásach dissaproves and then we should only do what they say when they say we should do it)
Send me a list and I’ll get to them eventually.
Casey, stop trying to fix me and Jess up. I’m sure she’s a grand girl and all, but it’s irritating.
As for West Brits, I don’t have a problem with them. People are entitled to be anti-Irish, whether they’re from the Pale, Tralee, Galway, Belfast, wherever. But it’s not ok to say a fella is a bigot if he points out that West Brits want to suppress Irish. That’s the whole point of being a West Brit. I don’t argue that West Brits shouldn’t exist or that they should be excluded from society, even if West Brits recommend that for Irish speakers.
As for handbags, I didn’t mention them.
People who don’t speak Irish? I love them. My mother is one of the m (DON’T go there!)
People who don’t agree with me? My favourite people, the cantanker I am.
The only thing I mentioned hating is soap operas. Except Ros na Rún, of course. Does Barney Bunion count?
Now, calm down and type one letter at a time. And proofread.
The term ‘West Brit’ is insulting. If it were not, it would be very safe to walk into any pur from Teranure to Blackrock and call someone that
“But it’s not ok to say a fella is a bigot if he points out that West Brits want to suppress Irish.” – do they? every single one of them? how do you know? did you have a ballot?
My only issue is with the term ‘West Brit’ (whether racist, bigoted, or whatever) which I think is a lazy way to make an argument and will probably get a lot of people who might side with you or even have agreed with you previously to get their shackles up (because we may have been born in an area which gives us automatic ‘West Brit’ citizenship in the eyes of some). The general argument regarding a language that is not being well served by the government and by many people on the island is an important one that I agree with, but terms like ‘West Brit’ (and related terms for people from outside Dublin/Leinster/wherever) tends to lead to exactly this type of discussion that we’re having: divisive and pointless and distracting from the actual issues that are affecting Irish today.
Guys, guys. There is one troll on broadsheet and that’s ABM. A troll is facetious; makes people believe they are being serious in what they say to get responses they entirely predict, for their own amusement. They’re out to wind people up or even string them along by encouraging them in an ill-advised pursuit, which is even more mean spirited.
Any of the other ‘trolls’ are just people you don’t agree with or don’t appreciate their way of making a point.
Thanks.
Ah shut your pie-hole, you fool.
You.
You are the person I hate most of all.
May you stand on a plug tomorrow morning.
How very dare you, you thuggish clot.
Now you’ve gone and hurt my feelings. My FEELINGS.
H’ya. In opposite land! Andy’s my favourite.
Too late. The Rubicon has been crossed.
get a life.
Shure, doesn’t the Luas have bilingual announcements, taxis can use “Tacsaí” signs…
Seriously this a-hole doesn’t understand the difference between suppress and ignore
Do you know the difference between ingoring and ignorant?
Lets be honest here i know many people in a small minority love the Irish language and love to wax lyrical in a tongue that few can understand, but i am part of a modern world where there is about 4 major languages in the world used for global communication and i for one am glad that i am not stuck speaking a language that has so many different dialects that people from different counties can’t understand each other. So feel free to work spreading the word of your useless language, but if you called me a westbrit to my face for not speaking it I will stick those pipes so far up your backside that every step you take will sound like a cat wailing.
Now there’s a sensitive wee West Brit. Why so offended? You’re no stranger to an insult yerself.
Reference please.
Fairly comprehensive denigration of the Irish language in your post there: useless, implying it’s not part of the modern world, speakers of Irish dialects can’t understand each other …
Thats fact not insult. In the world i live in if you speak only Irish you will find it hard to communicate with the majority of people in this country let alone any other country but that fact that i speak english an almost universally used language i can communicate easily to people all over the world.
And to answer your question that fact that Irish speakers think they have more of a claim to Irishness because they speak irish offends me, just because you speak a language that is pointless to most does not make you a better Irish person. Basically its the gaelgoir sense of entitlement that offends me.
…pointless. If you’re offended by the truth you’re beyond help Droggo.
Just to clarify, not being able to speak Irish and not being able to learn it does not, in my view, make anyone less Irish. What does is hating Irish, Irish speakers, anything to do with Irish and denigrating Irish culture as backward, out of date, pointless. To me that is the essence of a West Brit. What I don’t get is why West Brits are offended by being called West Brit. Would they prefer anti-Irish? Or do they see themselves as the real modern Irish, with Irish speakers as an embarrassing hangover from the past that shouldn’t exist anymore? And to clarify again, West Brit does not equal anglophile. Most Irish speakers I know are Anglophiles. They almost all speak English, for instance.
I never said i hate the Irish language, i hate the fact that it is pointlessly forced thought in schools and that the Gealgoir’s harp on about how hard done by they are when there is needless millions spent on Irish language programmes every year. Also if denigrating Irish culture is what makes you a west brit then we all must be one because the essence of Irishness comes from or willingness to denigrate everything including ourselves.
Fair enough. You obviously love it.
Aw Ultach …. are you offended that someone does not agree with you? Just wait until you meet the rest of the internet!
Contrary, Nice Anne. My sarcasm doesn’t equal offence. Except for other people, probably. Thanks for chipping in anyways.
Please can you make sure to provide anyone that disagrees with you with the obligatory “thanks for chipping in” comment as if they had no right to take part in a public discussion on a public forum.
Thanks for partaking in the use of the internet today even though you did it wrong.
Aren’t you the chivalrous one? Or are you and Nice Anne the same person?
You know what, you are right, I will come completely clean. On this site, there are just two people taking part in the discussion.
One is clever enough to hide the style in which they CONSITANTLY inform the other one
JUafásachUafásachJesJessUafásach that they are a complete tool.The other one is a pretencious little whiner Gael-snore who has not got the brains to use two different styles when pretending to be two people.
Mebbe it’s you that’s Jess. You being intelligent enough to do the different styles an’ all. Jess, you still there?
All the Irish speakers on here doing WONDERFUL things for the language with their kindly attitude. Really makes me want to go out and speak it.
I’m sorry you hate me for not liking the thing you like quite as much as you do.
As opposed to the totally reasonable and lovely comments of those here attacking and denigrating Irish and Irish speakers? You’re obfuscating Kieran.
Whether you want to speak Irish or not is up to you and shouldn’t depend on what you read here. There’s no duty on me or anyone else to have a kindly attitude towards anyone who calls Irish backward or pointless.
No-one here even mentioned you til now, much less said they hated you. If you mean others like you who, I presume, aren’t interested in Irish, if you look you will see I’ve never expressed any unpleasantness at anyone for simply not being interested in Irish. I reserve all my sarcasm and patronising for those who say nasty things, which I regard as bigoted, about Irish and Irish speakers and who, by definition, cannot be described as uninterested or disinterested. Obviously, other Irish speakers can speak for themselves, but I don’t hate you Kevin.
*Kieran
The debate was started by Maitiú with his dismissive attitude towards people who don’t happen to like his music or who don’t speak the language he does. As if you’re uninterested in those two things, you’re somehow not properly Irish.
I actually quite like Gaeilge, but I don’t have the thinly-veiled disgust that some Gaelgoirs have towards those whose gra isn’t as strong as theirs. And as we’ve seen above, the veil comes down very fast when someone dares express a dislike for the language.
But good man – stick to your guns. It’s a Pyrrhic moral victory unfortunately.
Sorry, Kieran. Slip.
I’m away to bed. If I keep banging on someone might get the idea I’m a wee bit obsessed. (You don’t think anyone did, do you?)
Night night.