This morning.
Pro-Choice Activities outside the Central Bank in Dublin with the Abortion Pill Bus.
The bus will travel to Cork, Limerick and Galway today telling women how to access terminations and “putting them in touch with doctors willing to prescribe abortion pills, in a bid to force a constitutional change [repeal of the Eight Amendment]”.
(Leah Farrell/RollingNews.ie)
Alternatively…
Pro-life activists at the the bus terminus stop.
(Leah Farrell/Rollingnews.ie)
Sponsored Link
This will end well.
‘Prolife’ …me hole
Hail to the bus driver, bus driver, bus driver!
Hail to the bus driver, bus driver wan !
If I may: (it’s not aimed at you)
I thought it might be helpful.
Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan
A fair summation in 4 pages.
http://www.2think.org/abortion.shtml
The pro life signs are a bit “I know you are but what am I?”
Some time later abortion bus breaks red light narrowly missing random group of women first two po faced brats feel vindicated number three prays away the feelings of uselessness. If only one of them had been pregnant he says between hail marys.
Punctuation is important. I read this three times. #thinkofthechildren
I don’t care whether they are pro-life or pro-choice but they all appear to be far too young to appreciate the complexity of the topic and I have no doubt egged on by creepy, ideologically driven parents. Plus ça change with our ever-dysfunctional abortion debate…
Best leave it to people beyond child-bearing age, so. No social change ever came from the young looking at the mores of their parents generation in disgust and disbelief.
Indeed. let us never forget that it was the younger oompa loompas that eventually overthrew Willy Wonka.
The dirty feckers!
I think you’ll find it is the “mores of their parents generation” they are attempting to protect and uphold in this case.
Joni’s criticising both sides for not being sufficiently middle-aged to understand things.
:)
@ahjayzis: would you say that Joni criticizing Both Sides Now? I’ll get me coat.
Dammit – I missed an ‘is’. Hoist by the petard of lame wisecracks!
Bit agist…or ageist…I dunno.
“but they all appear to be far too young to appreciate the complexity of the topic”
Are they old enough to appreciate complexity of parenting?
surely it’s younger people who ‘don’t know better’ that are far more likely to end up in the position of an unwanted pregnancy? I would think they should have a say as to how they are treated, no?
But they are of child-bearing age, so they should be addressing the topic.
While today’s women like to choose the time in which to start a family, nature always has other ideas when it comes to fertility.
No they aren’t it’s just everyone looks young to you.
Some of us on the pro-choice side have grey hairs, don’t worry
As I’ve mentioned before, I found myself in the position of having to make the decision of carrying a child who would never survive or having an abortion. I was 18. I may not have understood the complexities of the choice at the time (I do now though) but it didn’t change the fact that I still had to make the choice. Good on them for taking the stand.
There are far bigger battles to fight in modern Ireland.
Well said.
I said the same about homelessness. The trolley-crisis in our hospitals needs our full concentration, fuck homelessness, reproductive rights, refugees, traveller rights, wealth inequality, obesity, corruption in public office, banking malpractice, political reform, female participation in the board room. They can take a number and wait in line.
As a collective hive-mind this country of 4+ million people and great resources can only tackle one single thing at a time and I nominate Joni2015 to decide what that thing is for the rest of us. The ladies getting on a boat or ordering a pill online today can wait their turn on Joni2015’s list of Things He/She Cares About.
Nicely done! :-)
This is a big deal. Plus people can fight more than one battle at a time. Amazing!
Women are well renowned multi-taskers. Men can help when all the other stuff is sorted.
It needs everyone, old, young, man, woman. It’s frankly a joke that women are in this position in Ireland.
Nah, this is one of the really big ones. It is about respecting the rights of half our population, the women. To tell them that they are not vessels nor 2nd class citizens.
One of my friends just had an abortion. The partner would love a kid buy he never even knew. A baby just didn’t suit her plans in the next year.
Yeah, anecdotes tend to be all the anti abortion/gay/refugee/traveller/poor/Muslim side tend to have.
It takes two to tango. This is a very sad scenario, I agree. But what is the alternative in your view? Force her to carry on with the pregnancy? I don’t think so.
I won’t be going too deep into this, been there, but in the opposite scenario, where the pregnancy was accidental, resulting from a consensual relationship between two responsible adults, I think the male should also have the option to have a “legal abortion”, i.e. chose not to become a dad legally, as long as the decision is taken early.
I’ll let the extremists start having their convulsions and anger attacks now.
Saw you bring that up before and it’s an interesting concept, worth a discussion.
Won’t happen of course, Don and the gang will savage you for even thinking it.
Oh so you’re Dog….. now I see!
And you’re wrong. Like always. Di**face.
Have a vasectomy and use a condom until you want to have children. The alternative is abstention, or just have sex with other men – no chance of pregnancy then.
Yeah I figure that’s it but I wanted to see how he was going to spin the crap out of it.
Shouldn’t he find himself a real woman then? That one might have plans for the rest of her life. Or not wanting to have a child with a particular man. While his motility is declining… Tough one.
“I think the male should also have the option to have a “legal abortion””
Why?
To have lots of unsafe sex without any responsibility.
plenty free and fun sex is the purpose of contraceptives, the pregnancy is a consequence if their failure or the failure to use then properly.
This story seems completely authentic.
What a selfish girl. Did you not tell her anyone she shags automatically gets a 50% stake in her innards and whatever may or may not reside there?
Pretty selfish but she’s a feisty sort and could not care less. Potentially a sociopath but I like her.
Horrific story, Joni.
Legislation should be considered whereby on becoming a pregnant an automatic injunction and travel-ban is imposed on wombs. Maybe with a waiver if agreed to and signed by the womb’s co-owner.
Oh yeah, if only….
*the morning after*
” Oh yeah love, one more thing, would you take half my herpes on your way out ”
.
.
.
.
(Disclaimer – I don’t have herpes)
And even if your anecdote were true, that would be fine. Because it’s her body, her plans, her decision.
No seriously shut up. Don’t you dare presume to know what went through the mind of a woman making that choice. And for that matter, your friend who would have loved a child, would he have been willing to take on all of the responsibility that goes with parenting alone? Because, hypothetically, after the woman had given birth and handed the child over, that is what you are effectively looking at. Asking a woman to carry an unwanted child and then hand it over because the wants of a man trump that of the sentient woman who gains nothing from the whole thing.
don’t
feed
the
troll
Anger overcame common sense. Again
I imagine if you had to carry a dead baby to full term you might feel different. Apologies if you have.
Go to the UK and don’t make such a big deal out of it. Catch a show in the West end and make it a holiday
Ah. It’s just a troll.
You seem real nice
great idea! forget about access for people who can’t afford it, who cares about poor people anyway! Let someone else deal with it!
Hit up a pro choice charity for funds if you’re badly stuck. Tell the St. V. de. P that your fridge broke.
Soooo basically make abortion completely accessible, for all incomes, just not in Ireland? Do you work for Ryanair?
It’s not that big a deal though. In a person’s whole life they might have what, a, 20% chance of needing an abortion. 300 quid and a day out of their life and it’s done.
So basically higher odds than gallstones, but you don’t need to shell out for international travel for those.
“It’s not that big a deal though….300 quid and a day out of their life and it’s done.”
I didn’t realise Joni2015 supported abortion laws for Ireland. That’s great, Joni.
Cos we all have three grand to chuck about for abortion, dinner and a show in London.
Hardly. J man is right again. Lack of finances not an excuse.
https://www.mariestopes.org.uk/overseas-clients-abortion/irish/costs-payment-how-book/our-fees-how-much-abortion-marie-stopes-uk
Come back to me when you need an abortion and say that.
Both sides seem to be populated by crusties…
With a bit of luck, the courts will find some legal precedent enabling them to repeal without having to go through a referendum.
I’m not sure the world is ready for the poostorm of smug SJWness that would be unleashed round these parts, I guess it would be palatable if it was a referendum to legislate for abortion but one to merely remove the 8th amendment which will pass easily is going to be irritating in the extreme.
The ones who shout the loudest in this debate are the poeple least likely to ever need an abortion.
The entire Iona Institute, then. I’m pretty sure not one of them are child-bearing age females. Catholic church ditto. ‘Faith groups’ full of old fossils similarly.
The RCC has millions of members in Ireland….
Not all of them pay the subscriptions any more.
I’m a non-practicing member because El Papa won’t let me leave.
I put more faith in quantum mechanics/ theory than some sky fairy though.
I’m a ‘member’ of the RCC church, I completely disagree with about 95% of their teachings and deplore their leadership, but they have refused to institute a system for me to cancel that membership, so that’s a really trite, meaningless comment there, newsjustin.
did i hear right that RCC is not allowing defections anymore?
C’Mon now ahjajzis, more meaningful than claiming the RCC has no women members of childbearing age.
Congratulations, that might be the most disingenuous thing you’ve ever said
Since ‘members’ by which I assume you mean mass-going parishioners, have zero input in policy decisions around stances the bishops take, again, that point is irrelevant.
No one in decision making authority in the RCC has A. a womb of their own, B. daughters, C. a wife of childbearing years, D. any other skin in the game.
Going back to the OP – these are the people in Ireland most unlikely to ever need or be near to or have any involvement in a termination of pregnancy.
I’m not saying they don’t have a right to an opinion, my comment is addressed to joni talking about the ones who shout loudest are the furthest from the issue. My point is this is more true of one side than the other.
@Joxer ..yes. You can only leave by excommunication and El Papa is not doing those any more for us ordinary folk, apparently. So, if baptised into the church, you can’t leave… as in be officially stricken from their records.
So, while we’re stuck within, let’s give ’em hell !
I don’t think courts can change the constitution.
They can interpret it, but not change it.
Yeah, I know. It’s a pity sometimes.
No. It’s never a pity.
IS the term SJW broadsheet’s new Hipster? a catch all term to immediately disregard any opinions that you don’t want to deal with. I hate SJW as a phrase. It reminds me of angry little gamers.
It’s a catchall insult used by whiny MRAs who hate that women won’t sleep with them even when they buy them drinks and say they have nice boobs.
Sure you have big boy…
what’s an MRA?
MRA
Acronym for a group called Men’s Rights Activists.
I.E. – A bunch of whiny pedantic men that think there is some vast Illuminati feminist conspiracy while seemingly ignoring the fact that their own gender runs the majority of the world.
– Hey, you hear about that guy in Marketing that complains about his ex-wife all the time?
— Yeah, I heard that he just got a raise and tried to take his ex to court to reduce his child support.
– Jeez, what a MRA.
We probably need a term for people who miss the point as well.
I understood your point, I just dislike your phrasing.
And an explanation of what MRAs are?
Mens Rights Advocates. They’re closely related to oppressed American white person.
Basically Small-Man Syndrome writ large.
To expand a bit, MRAs (generally white men, but there are some ethnic minorities and some women in their ranks) claim that they’re trying to bring more attention to issues that effect men and to attempt to rebalance gender disparitiy issues that they feel have swung to far in the favour of women as a result of feminism.
While they do pay lip service to some serious issues – such as the lack of support for male victims of domestic abuse, they deny the existence of toxic masculinity and in practise they spend a lot more time ranting about feminists and generally being horrible online.
There’s related groups: Men Going Their Own Way, who claim that men are ‘dropping out’ of modern society, like something out of Atlas Shrugged; and Pick Up Artists, who talk a lot about using negative reinforcement, mental abuse and other mind games to seduce women and use them for sex.
MRAs tend to join in reactionary anti-woman/anti-progressive flamewars, like gamergate and the scandal around the Hugo Awards this year. Many of their spokespeople have a history of rascist and homophobic statements online as well as sexist ones. In the last year there seems to be an increase in crossover between MRAs and white supremacists/neo-nazis online.
What’s gamergate and the other thing you refer to?
Gamergate claims to be a grassroot movement dedicated to preserving ethics in videogame journalism, but it’s really just an excuse to harass outspoken feminists who work in or comment on gaming online. It started when a programmer named Eron Gojni posted a poison pen breakup letter about his then-girlfriend Zoe Quinn, an indie game developer. Gojni broke up with Quinn and wronte the letter after he discovered she’d been cheating on him with Nathan Grayson, a journalist at gaming site Kotaku.
Quinn was already despised by “traditional” gamers and a victim of occasional abuse because her interactive fiction game Depression Quest about trying to live with social anxiety and depression was given a slot on Steam Greenlight, supposedly at the cost of a “real” game, so this was initially another excuse to go after her. Chinese whispers lead her abusers to take it as given that Quinn slept with Greyson to get a positive review of her game, even though he never reviewed it.
During this round of abuse, a game developer named Brianna Wu posted a number of reaction images with anti-gamergate text, leading her to get similar harassment. Also, Anita Sarkeesian released a new video in her controversial “tropes vs women in video games” series, and they went after her as well.
The threats these three women recieved were tekaen so seriously by the police that all three had to leave their homes temporarily. Sarkeesian had to cancel a speaking engagement in a college in Utah after recieving a letter threatening a mass shooting if she went through with it, and the police refused to search people for guns on the way in (Utah has open carry firearm laws).
And these are the highlights. Many other women and people who defended the initial three targets were themselves harassed. A common tactic was to release people’s home and work addresses and phone numbers online. Gamergate supporters reported that they also recieved abuse and threats of a similar nature from their opponents.
The Wiki page has a decent rundown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy
The Hugo controversy has a bit more history. The Hugos are one of the most prestigious awards in Science Fiction literature, awarded by the attendees of Worldcon, an SF convention that moves to a different city each year (Dublin is in the running to host the con in 2019). Anyone who books a ticket in advance can nominate titles for the Hugo shortlist for that year and the next year, and they can vote in that year’s Hugos. There’s also a supporting membership ticket, which allows people who can’t make it to the convention to nominate and vote.
In 2013, American SF author Larry Correia started a campaign to get himself a Hugo award, and he managed to make the shortlist, but came last in the vote for the award.
Last year, he tried again, but provided a list of 2-3 titles per category, and he started using reactionary rhetoric and extolled people to nominate and vote just to annoy ‘liberals’. Many of them made it onto the shortlist, but none of them won. Notably, one of the people he got nominated was Vox Day, AKA Theodore Beale: a truly horrible nutjob who rationalwiki describes as “a science fiction author, game designer,[3] musician,[4] pseudo-libertarian, anti-vaxxer,[5] racist,[6] Christian apologist, pickup artist, stalker[7], and all-round f**king idiot”. SF Fandom noticed Correia’s activites and it created something of a stir as he was abusing the spirit of the Hugos by campaigning for a specific list of titles.
This year, there was another attempt. Correia handed the reins over to Brad Torgersen, who ramped up the rhetoric and claimed there was a liberal conspiracy to nominate books that nobody actually liked, that SF should be about space adventures in space (he even complained that he can’t judge a book by its cover), but that had been taken over by social justice messaging.
Never mind that Torgersen is the same age as me, and books like Stranger in a Strange Land, Dune, and the Forever War all won Hugos with their social justice messaging before he was born. Also, Star Trek. Anyway, he advocated nominating full shortlists, and because the shortlists are a simple count vote, his campaign cleaned up. Beale also ran a campaign beside Torgersen’s one and between them, they dominated all but the most popular categories. This upset fandom, to say the least and there was a massive back and forth.
The actual awards are voted on by instant runoff with an option for no award to be given out, so it ended up with the vast majority of their nominees being voted below No Award, the categories where they were the only nominees got No Award, and the only thing on their ballots which won was Guardians of the Galaxy for best long form dramatic presentation, which was a strong candidate anyway.
The same group are already planning their campaign for next year.
Thanks for this amazing answer Lorcan
The term SJW is a handy shortcut for identifying willyheads online, such as gamergaters.
Am pretty sure the pro life dude is a white walker
@Moyest: thanks for the clarification.
When will the white, middle-aged man catch a break in this goddamn country? Sorry for off-topic. :)
@ahjayzis: I live and learn.
I wonder how many babies won’t be born in 2016 because of this?
This bus? Very few thankfully, it’s more of an awareness raising/electioneering stunt.
How many millions of potential babies have you not had because of wet dreams of vvanking?
Potential babies are not babies though.
but when does potential become actual?
You’ve just destroyed your own argument.
A zygote and what it grows into, for months after conception, is only a potential baby, and as you say, a potential baby is not a baby.
ahjajzis, Daisy’s comment was about sperm as potential babies.
“Potential babies aren’t babies’ was YOUR point though.
A zygote is pretty glaringly obviously not a baby – I’ll grant it’s a potential baby, any number of things can happen, it might not implant, go ectopic, it could miscarry – or the mother could terminate the pregnancy.
It’s only a potential baby until it can survive independently. You’ve destroyed your argument.
Yeah, we’re talking about two different things. I addressed Daisy’s point. My use of the phrase “potential baby” was, like Daisy, in reference to sperm ie non-existent babies.
You’ve assumed I consider the human being formed after fertilisation a “potential baby”. I don’t.
Kinda sums up our differing viewpoints ahjayzis.
Thinking that a baby is not a baby until it is capable of “surviving independently” is of course, nonsense. Not least because no baby, born or unborn can do that. Even taking what you say to mean capable of living with care and medical support, the notion that a baby at 23 weeks and 2 days that doesn’t survive and a 24 week baby that is born early and lives are different things is just wrong.
Ok, newsjustin, thought experiment for you. You’re in a hospital that’s on fire. You’re standing in front of two doors. In one is a petri dish with 50 zygotes in it. The other has one alive baby. You’ve only time to save one. Which room are you going into?
If by alive, you mean a born baby then the screaming baby.
Fortunetly, public policy isn’t made in a burning hospital.
Ok, let me rephrase. You’ve 50 potential babies in one room and one actual baby in the other. Which do you save?
That’s a really weird thing to wonder about. Does that go through your mind every time you use a condom / the missus goes back on the pill or what?
I think about it every time I have my period
monthly miscarriage.
If you take the Pro-Life argument to the n’th degree you could probably end up there.
ahjajzis, contraception doesn’t abort pregnancies. You know that, right?
Contraception also reduces the amount of 2016 babies, babes. It’s about as reasonable to mourn the much, much larger numbers of foregone babies we’d have if all straight sex were to be procreative, as if all women were forced to host a zygote until a baby’s born. They’re both unreasonable, illiberal assumptions.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree, I happen to think the woman’s free will and bodily autonomy is a factor in whether or not she becomes a mother – you don’t.
Surely we can agree, if nothing else, that pre fertilisation, there is nothing except a sperm and an egg?
What is this fascination with not wasting sperm?
I actually agree 100% with your last paragraph. It is absolutely a factor.
But other factors also feature once a human being is created.
Tell that to the church. When I was growing up in the 70s, a wank was “murder”.
And yes, ‘murder’ was the word used by priests in school.
I’ve murdering it everyday since, and not one fupping baby !
^been
Anyone who told you that was wrong Clampers. I’ve never heard anyone outside prochoice Internet types suggest it.
As you were Clampers. You have my full support*
*not like that
Firstly @ Joni2015 – If she had an abortion without telling him, I think there are more reasons than ‘it didn’t fit with her plans for the next year” A baby is going to affect you for more than one year!! and if she was unable to discuss that, I would have doubts about the relationship in the first place.
Secondly @ Seriously – to say that young people are more likely to have an unwanted pregnancy – I would say this is not really true, there are more reasons than unwanted pregnancy to have an abortion. That even people who are older would choose to have an abortion for. Also young people need to bring about change to the 8th effect as any change will not affect women past child bearing age at all.
Thirdly @ Manolo – a man having a “legal abortion” is a bit off topic and to be honest, men have the choice to walk away. Women don’t!
The issue here remains that there should be a “choice” on what to do if you find yourself with an unwanted pregnancy or a pregnancy you want but the baby will not survive. There are many reasons to have a termination but all of them are private to the mother/parents.
Perhaps if people had the right to choose what they wish to do then perhaps there would be less neglected children out there.
I was being a bit facetious with my comment on their age. I do believe that it’s a ridiculous argument to just dismiss young people as being idealistic as they are clearly the driving force behind a lot of social change and as you mentioned it is an issue that they are more likely to deal with over the next 20 years or so.
All power to them also, hopefully it wont be another generation before we get to put an x in the ballot box.
religious fundamentalists getting yank money….
I dunno
This talk about their ages
Seems too much like a pain in whole to even bother bringing it up
As far as I’m concerned
Anyway
Like
That was me
Thirty Years ago
RaRa skirt n’all
Úcking Hell
Like
we’re really no where closer
Than when Nell and Co got off that train
And some lad brings up the age of activists!
I take some comfort that this is an issue that has the capacity to renew itself
Because we won’t be around in 30 years
As for the RaRa shirt ….