70 thoughts on “Meanwhile, At Beechwood Luas

    1. Tish Mahorey

      Why? I know 53% sounds like too much of a hike but why shouldn’t they get some more if they’re not being paid fairly?

      Do you think these people are your servants?

          1. Tish Mahorey

            “40k not enough to press a button no?”

            Condescending disrespect like that is a sign of poor parenting.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            “That makes no sense, whatsoever.
            Please come back when you’ve grown up.”

            I’m sorry. I didn’t realise I was dealing with a fragile idiot. Am I hurting your feelings? Just say the word and I’ll go easy on you.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            Disasta ; ‘Some trite condescending comment’
            Moyes; ‘Trite condescending reply’
            Disasta; ‘Grow up’.

            I think I’ve found my new play thing.

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            Mental note; When dealing with some emotional troll, tell him you’re going to spend the day trolling him and he’ll stop.

      1. Owen C

        Nope. But we (the public) own the expensive tracks they are exclusively using. They are a public resource which today and tomorrow will be going to waste. The notion of “being paid fairly” is an entirely subjective one. Usually we let the jobs market decide where the fair wage should be set, ie if they are being paid unfairly, they always have the option of looking for another better paid job. Before someone jumps on this and says “oh, typical capitalist crap etc etc”, it is difficult to claim they are being paid poorly or unfairly. They are getting inflation adjusted pay increases and annual bonuses. Many people in this economy would love to have that option available to them.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          “They are a public resource which today and tomorrow will be going to waste.”

          That’s a new one. You should read up on confirmation bias. It’s when you come to a conclusion without any rationale and then try and invent some. That’s a great example of it there. ‘They shouldn’t be protesting because….um…emmmm……..I know! It’s cause the tracks will be going to waste.’

          “Usually we let the jobs market decide where the fair wage should be set,”

          Irish Rail did that. It helps to read up on things before passing judgements. It just makes you look like an ignorant blowhard.

          “if they are being paid unfairly, they always have the option of looking for another better paid job.”

          Sure. Or they could strike.

          It’s amazing. We have a wealth gap across the world which is getting worse and worse and yet we still get gobsheens complaining that workers are fighting for a fairer share of the pie. If you don’t like your job conditions, do something about them. Stop whining about others getting proactive.

          1. Owen C

            Oh god, its the same old name calling shiz. Seriously, update your act. The Angry Leftie stuff is an over-occupied marketplace. If you at least kept it fresh, people might find you interesting, but you’re really getting incredibly dull at this stage.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            “but you’re really getting incredibly dull at this stage.”

            Something something, name calling, something. You see, when I name call, I ALSO rip apart your argument. You just name call. I’ll take it you can’t counter anything I’ve said though. I don’t really care about “winning” arguments here but I know people like you do. That’s what makes it fun.

          3. Owen C

            I can’t counter anything you said cos it was all irrelevant babble. Which you are rather good at in fairness. Somehow Irish tram drivers wanting 50-60k a year is all part of the workers of the world pushing back against The Man. Screw the average commuter who did not ask to be involved in this, whether through inconvenience or through increased costs.

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            Yes. Like I said yesterday, these workers are uniting for a fairer wage and you think ‘how dare they affect my commute one day of the week’. Your incredibly selfish and plainly stupid attitude affects the whole country.

          5. Owen C

            Its two days of the week actually. And two days next week. And presumably more to come after that if they don’t get their way.

            Also, define “fair wage”. Referencing a long term loss making state owned company is not going to convince many people.

          6. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Its two days of the week actually.”

            Ok then. I’ll rephrase. Workers are uniting to try and get a fairer wage and all you can think is ‘How dare they affect my commute for 2 days.’ You’re just fooling yourself here. You have an emotional reaction to people who challenge the status quo like most conservatives and you perform mental gymnastics like ‘won’t someone think of the commuters’ and ‘the carriages will be going to waste’ to rationalise it in your own head. You thought ‘I don’t like strikers’ BEFORE you thought about the Poor Commuters and Wasted Carriages.

            “Also, define “fair wage”.”

            That’s not for me to answer. How about *you* tell me what a fair wage is if you’re so sure it’s not what they’re asking for.

          7. Owen C

            “thats not for me to answer”

            So you are arguing in favour of them striking, but you won’t back up their argument with an opinion of your own? God, spineless much? At least I’m willing to suggest that the increase in pay they are looking for would bring them well above “fair” for a job with reasonable levels of job security, decent working conditions, and very little required in terms of qualifications. I think something in the range of 35-45k is “fair” on this basis. Something close to their current wage levels.

            As for the proactivity, I’m being proactive in criticizing their behaviour which is impacting on other people who use the Luas service. It weird that you view striking as positively proactive, but criticism as negatively proactive, “begrudging” in your view. I think this somehow feeds back into your confirmation bias theory.

          8. MoyestWithExcitement

            “So you are arguing in favour of them striking, but you won’t back up their argument with an opinion of your own?”

            This isn’t about me. This isn’t about you. This is about the striking Luas drivers and their employers. If they feel their pay is unfair, then their pay is unfair.

            “At least I’m willing to suggest …..”

            Who cares what you’re willing to suggest? What the hell does that have to with anything?

            “As for the proactivity”

            Which means getting off your arse and doing something about something. Continue…

            ” I’m being proactive in criticizing their behaviour which is impacting on other people who use the Luas service.”

            Someone on my Facebook feed once *proudly* posted a screenshot of his banning from Mary Lou McDonald’s Twitter page. He genuinely thought he’d ‘struck a blow’ against SF with his Twitter comments. There really are people that think their posts on message boards are important. You’re one of those people aren’t you. Your ‘criticising their behaviour’ is not going to have any effect on anything.

          9. Owen C

            “This is about the striking Luas drivers and their employers”

            And its about the people who pay for and use the Luas every day. You seem to ignore this at every opportunity.

        2. ollie

          “Usually we let the jobs market decide where the fair wage should be set”
          But we pay Enda Kenny €200,000 a year for what? We allow the average TD to claim €3,000 a month for expenses that he doesn’t have to justify.

          1. Owen C

            Tish

            you have, inadvertently, undercut the unions position – if they cant easily get another similar job, why should they be paid a lot more? Also, remember, there are essentially no major qualifications required for this job. So, in summary, a job requiring very little in the way of pre-job qualifications, and where you do not have many other substitutes to go to if you wanted to leave, pays 35-45k, but unions feel they are due a very substantial pay increase? Its not the strongest of arguments.

        3. Tish Mahorey

          Is “Owen C” and “Disasta” the same person?

          “if they are being paid unfairly, they always have the option of looking for another better paid job”

          Oh so like another Tram driving job with eh…. ??

          1. Disasta

            No we are not.

            Other countries moved/are moving to automated systems.
            These lads should be glad to be getting the wage they get, which to me, is well above what someone who presses a button/pushes a level should get.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            You’re having trouble finding a new place to rent in Cork, aren’t you? Yeah, well, stop complaining. You’re lucky to have a roof over your head at all. There are homeless people everywhere that would love to have the apartment you’re in.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            You’re welcome, mate. I hope you never complain about your rent or whine about the rental market in Cork. That would obviously just be greedy on your part and you should be happy with your lot.

          4. Disasta

            The lack of property in the rental market in Cork has nothing to do at all, and is incomparable to, the wage of a disgruntled button pusher.

            Your arguments, if one could call them that, make you look like a clown.

        1. ReproBertie

          Starting pay is €32K rising to €42K after 10 years. This does not include their annual bonus of a couple of grand (I can’t remember the actual figure) which is always paid, even when the company made a loss last year. I heard this on Morning Ireland before some idiot jumps in to label me a shill.

          The union are saying that 53% is their starting point but at the same time hint strongly that they’ll take much less, just not the up to 5% the company are offering. The union also complain that the contract the drivers sign does not pay overtime and treats Sundays and public holidays as normal working days.

          1. meadowlark

            Cheers Bertie. I couldn’t seem to come across a figure when I’ve been reading about it.

            When the lads in Dublin Bus were on strike, I had a certain amount of sympathy with them, because they must have direct interaction with the public, and deal with some seriously unpleasant types, along with aggression, threats and downright rudeness, when Luas and train drivers just sit behind a closed door. So I’m less inclined to sympathise with such blatant greed.

  1. Tish Mahorey

    You can be almost certain the Transdev losses are not down to their Irish operations. They are more likely down to investment in the business across all the countries in which they operate.

    And the outright condemnation of anyone demanding a pay rise is mean spirited and usually comes from the kind of people who negotiate significant pay rises every time they change job or job function.

    There is a culture of oppression of lower paid workers in this country thanks to five years of Fine Gael hatred of the less well off.

    1. veritas

      In that case let them negotiate a significant pay rise by applying for a job at Irish rail and see if they can meet the requirements.

  2. Condescending Nana

    fire them and replace them, no shortage of people willing to work, oh and ban union membership, like a rot in the wood.

      1. Brian S

        Didn’t say that’s what you said. But it’s the stance you seem to be taking. Let’s just have workers demand what ever they want and hold thousands of people to ransom.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          “Didn’t say that’s what you said.”

          Apologies, although you can see how you writing it in quotation marks and attributing the quote to me might have confused me into thinking you thought that’s what I said. Good man.

          “Let’s just have workers demand what ever they want and hold thousands of people to ransom.”

          That’s how it works in a free society. Stop whining about other people getting proactive about working conditions they’re unhappy with and just get the bus.

          1. Brian S

            What exactly are wrong with their conditions? Nothing that’s what. They just want more money for doing the same unskilled job

          2. Disasta

            They are unhappy with 40k because what? They want more?

            No.

            I want more. You know what I can do if I want more and the yearly increases are not to my liking?

            Find another job.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            “What exactly are wrong with their conditions?”

            I don’t know. I don’t work there. Do you?

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            “You know what I can do if I want more and the yearly increases are not to my liking?”

            ‘Lads, this is enough. Let’s call a strike.’
            ‘Hold on lads. There’s some deluded child on the internet that says he’d just find another job if he were us.’
            ‘Lads, call off the strike.’

          5. Disasta

            Classic, you give yourself away.

            “There’s some deluded child on the internet that says he’d just find another job if he were us”

            You’re both a hypocrite and lazy.
            I’m done with you.

      1. Tish Mahorey

        So what is it? Small pecker? Overbearing Father you were never good enough for? Let the love of your life go without a fight?

        Must be some reason for your bitterness.

  3. Tish Mahorey

    All the Green Line users are totes upset that these proles made them drive their lease-hire BMWs into the D2 business district today.

    How dare these knuckle dragging amoebas dictate terms to Champions of Industry, Masters of the Universe.

    Ireland has bred some seriously selfish and sociopathic men over the last 30 years.

    1. Harry Molloy

      Thinking is easier when you just pigeon-hole people like that Tish, glad to see you aren’t wearing yourself out, would hate to see worry lines on your pretty internet face :)

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        “Thinking is easier when you just pigeon-hole people like that Tish”

        Weren’t you calling the content here ‘socialist rants’ yesterday?

        1. Harry Molloy

          Yes, talking about a handful of specific people. Not the tens of thousands who live by the green line.

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