The Sacrament Of School Enrollment

at

4617452618_708x372

‘sup?

Anything good in the Guardian?

Harriet Sherwood writes:

Ireland’s last census, in 2011, showed a big rise in the numbers of non-Catholics. Although those identifying themselves as Catholic were still the vast majority of the 4.5m population, more than 6% – 277,000 people – described themselves as atheist, agnostic, lapsed or of “no religion”. The number was an increase of almost 50% since the previous census in 2006; the next census, due in April, is expected to show an even bigger rise.

… A few months ago, the archdiocese of Dublin commissioned research from a global consultancy firm, Towers Watson, to forecast the church’s trajectory over the next 15 years. Its findings made bleak reading for the church, which declined to speak about the report to the Guardian.

Attendances at mass are set to fall by a third between now and 2030, on top of a 20% drop between 2008 and 2014. The church can expect to recruit one new priest under the age of 40 each year. As incumbents retire or die, there is likely to be a fall of up to 70% in the number of working priests, and about three-quarters of those remaining in post will be over the age of 60. The church must consider recruiting priests from other countries and encouraging existing priests to work beyond the age of 75, the report said.

Baptisms were predicted to remain stable, but the report noted that this may be explained by “the preference given to children who are baptised when enrolling in Catholic primary schools. If this requirement is removed at any point prior to 2030, we believe there is likely to be a decline in the number of baptisms each year.”

Jodie Neary, the mother of 18-month-old unbaptised twins Evyie and Mia, said: “The school system is the last stronghold of the Catholic church in Ireland, so it’s very important to them. I’ve never considered baptising the girls, but I know people who baptise their children just to make sure they can get into the local school. It’s very common.”

… The Guardian spoke to parents who reported children being assigned prayers for homework, given religiously-themed artwork and reading books, taught creationism on nature walks and enlisted in the construction of “prayer stations” with religious icons on school premises. “It’s hard to challenge this – you don’t want to be the parent who turns up every day to argue with the teachers,” said one.

…[Mike McKillen, 72, who teaches bio-chemistry part-time at Trinity College Dublin said:] “The church is no longer in the ascendant. And once we get a system of education that isn’t dependent on religious patronage, its influence will wane further. There is political momentum on this, and the policy makers cannot ignore it any longer.”

Faith, hope and secularity: Ireland on brink of change as church power wanes (The Guardian)

Related: Carol Hunt: And The Lesson Today

Pic: Gorey Educate Together

Sponsored Link

44 thoughts on “The Sacrament Of School Enrollment

  1. well, tat's that

    Seya after Catholic Church. Religion trying to influence society, to me, is like Golf Club trying to impose its rules on the houses across the road. Have all the Jesus-and-Virgin-Mary-fun you want inside your church gates but leave it in there. Even the Islamic Cultural Centre and Mosque in Dublin doesn’t perform its Call to Prayer for fear of offending auld Catholic Ireland. Secularism is the way forward and teach your children religion in church and at home.

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        Sorry, no. I’m helping to pay for that school. The church can keep their fairy stories out of it.

        1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

          Or they have to tell all the fairy stories and the stories about them being fairy stories. Fair’s only fair.

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            I remember Richard Dawkins saying he’d have no problem with the bible being taught as literary work. That’s a good idea, I thought. It’s part of our cultural history after all. It’s just not what our society is built on as the church would have us think.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            I know. Himself and Harris are just awful. I wonder if the second lad is related to Simon over here.

          3. Owen O'F

            Awful? Because they don’t confine themselves to lambasting Christianity only like they’re supposed to?

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            Well my Muslim neighbour is also paying for it. So he should have his fairy stories taught to the children as well, right?

          2. Cup of tea anyone?

            I see a lot of candidates have said they do not want any religion in the schools at all and I think this is wrong and shows them jumping on a bandwagon for votes more than actually having their own opinion.
            Religion should be thought in school but it should be world religion so kids can share their beliefs and become more accepting to each others culture.
            it might actually create a generation of people who actually choose their own faith instead of having it forced on them.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            The issue here is that the Catholic Church get to influence our children in schools that people who aren’t Catholics are paying for. I’m not a Catholic. I don’t want my future children to be taught these fairy stories. They are anti-reason and only serve to make people dumber. So why should your wishes be respected over mine seeing as we’re both paying the same money and there are more non Catholics than actual ones?

          4. newsjustin

            It’s more the wishes of parents and faith/school communities who currently own and operate these schools. They have a right to exist to serve the parents who choose them for their children.

            Your view that there are more non-catholics than actual ones is based on nothing more than your own rigid rules about how and when someone may identify as a Catholic.

          5. MoyestWithExcitement

            “It’s more the wishes of parents”

            And as has been discussed, there are quite a lot of parents who’ll get their kids baptised purely to get them into schools. Clearly there is an atmosphere of fear when it comes to this. Parents are too afraid to speak out about it because they are scared they might cost their children. I would say the wishes of most parents are not being respected.

            “Your view that there are more non-catholics than actual ones is based on nothing more than your own rigid rules about how and when someone may identify as a Catholic.”

            I’m saying that people will identify as Catholic for all sorts of, often non theological reasons. That is quite the opposite of rigid.

  2. Kieran NYC

    There needs to be a push for people to accurately identify their actual lack of religion in the next census. FAR too many people lazily tick the ‘Catholic’ box when they haven’t been within a ass’s roar of a church in years. It just provides misleading figures the church and politicians can point to to do nothing.

    1. Rob_G

      We should introduce the same system that they have in Germany – tithing X% of your income tax to the church (or cause) of your choice.

      If you want to have a basptism, church wedding, etc, you have to show that your tithe has been duly paid; that would sort out the à la carte Catholics from the bona fide agnostics.

    2. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

      I wouldn’t be that harsh. Some people have religious faith and would consider themselves Catholic but don’t necessarily buy into the Church because of what has happened.

      1. Whatevs

        “Some people…would consider themselves Catholic but don’t necessarily buy into the Church”

        And I thought if you’re Catholic, the whole idea is that you DO buy into what the Church is selling!

        1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

          Do you though? I know a fair few people who were bought up in the Church, did the altar boy/girl thing and would still have an old pray every now and again but don’t go to Church on the regular, or even at all, because of what the Church has got up to Ireland do not want any part of it at all. There is a distinction. But then, I like those.

          1. Whatevs

            Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the whole idea of being Catholic is is that you accept the Roman Catholic Church as the “One True Church” and you accept the Pope as Head of the Church, to be God’s only messenger on earth.
            At least that’s what I remember from school…

            I think people are conditioned into ticking “Roman Catholic” on their Census form from the daily brainwashing they got for 12 years in school, even though they don’t realise the ramifications of what they’re saying. Saying your Catholic surely means that you also sign up to a set of ideals, set down by the Catholic Church.

          2. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            @Clamos – I hope you put that in your CV

            @Whatevs – I don’t know, not my church

        2. MoyestWithExcitement

          Clearly that’s not true. For lots of people it’s an identity/culture thing more than a theological thing.

    3. newsjustin

      “….push for people to accurately identify their actual lack of religion in the next census.”

      People have a funny way of deciding for themselves their own religious affiliation or lack thereof. Why don’t you trust what they tell you?

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        I’ve found myself describing myself as Catholic before even though I don’t believe in God. It’s practically branded on your brain when you’re born here. It’s hard to forget. Actual Christians are a small minority these days.

        1. newsjustin

          You should describe yourself as you see fit and as best suits your religious views. Whatever seems right to you.

          I don’t see what’s complicated about that.

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            Human nature is a thing. People think of themselves as Catholic in the cultural sense, not because they believe that wafers turn into the body of some hippy that died 2000 years ago when a man in a dress touches them.

          2. meadowlark

            I was baptised, sent to a Catholic school. I do not identify as one, and would not term myself as one.

            Is this what you mean?

          3. newsjustin

            Yes Meadowlark. You choose to describe yourself however you like. Despite what busybodies on the Internet or in the church say.

          4. meadowlark

            I’m curious then, why do you not support the idea of nondenominational schools? Would you support the teaching of all faiths, religions, from an unbiased curriculum, as opposed to a Catholic based one? Or perhaps the idea of religion lessons taught in the hour after school, for example? I’m curious, I can’t help but wonder if there is not a compromise that would pave the way somewhat.

          5. newsjustin

            I think religious lessons thought at the end of the day or after school is well worth exploring. Ditto the Sunday School type of model.

            But it’s still reasonable to expect to see a manifestation of a schools catholic ethos throughout the day.

            Also I’m not against non-denominational schools. Far from it. If some people want to choose that for their kids, great.

          6. Nigel

            Do you? That’s great. I think access to education regardless of religion is far more important than preserving an exclusionary religious ethos in state-funded schools, myself.

        2. meadowlark

          That’s interesting. But when taxpayers money is paying for schools that are almost exclusively Catholic in ethos, the waters of church and state become muddied. Because, like I said, I do not identify as a Catholic, nor does my daughter, but that’s because she’s two and identifies more with things like ‘cakies’ than any god, and the fact that such a large number of schools are of a Catholic ethos means that my interests as a taxpayer are not represented. My tax is every bit as valid as Joe Next Door, so should I not at least have some option in where I educate my daughter? Because when I made up my mind about my religious beliefs, had someone asked me, I would have preferred to learn about all religions, as opposed to one. And would that not be a more equal way too teach? To give young people the information to decide for themselves. I’m not saying that Catholic Schools have no place in our society, but that our society is changing and how we teach ought reflect that, not oppose it.

  3. Bobby

    “There is political momentum on this, and the policy makers cannot ignore it any longer.”

    I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that yes, they can and will.

  4. babylonzoo4ever

    tell you what the whole atheist thing didn`t help dawkins out. maybe if he wasn`t always ranting on he wouldn`t have stroked out. and Hitchens
    just sayin`

  5. Peter Dempsey

    Well I am not religious at all but I will select the Roman Catholic option on the Census form as I know it will p*ss off Broadsheet and Rabble readers.

  6. topsy

    There’s nothing wrong with the admission policy to catholic schools. Those who don’t like it should wee off somewhere else.

Comments are closed.

Sponsored Link
Broadsheet.ie