Less Than JobBridge

at

tv3post01(1)
Interns01(1) copy

Jimmythehead writes:

Came across this “job” posting (top) on the Film Network Ireland Facebook page, which has since been deleted. After a little digging I found a more official post on a well known industry website, IFTN (above).

Film Network Ireland do good work in bringing people together through collaboration, where everyone deserves an equal opportunity and cronyism is lower down on the agenda. Slavery on the other hand, is not encouraged.

Is that even legal?

Via Irish Congress of Trade Unions:

Interns02(1)

Fair enough.

Illustration: ICTU

109 thoughts on “Less Than JobBridge

      1. Tish Mahorey

        How exactly true though.

        “With Daddy’s money, Fachtna opens ‘stort-up’ business in (rich FG member) Daddy’s vacant premises in D4 and hires unpaid interns to do all the work as he sails around Europe like a cock”

        I know that very person.

        1. The People's Hero

          Badum. Blaming FG for a private enterprise advertising for an unpaid internship is indeed as I describe. Said Intern will not be stolen from their slumber in the dead of night and forced to deliver ‘flat whites’ around the office. They will deliver flat whites willingly and are free to do so given the protections our social democracy affords them.

          FG are not the root of this particular problem. Our free and open society is. Yay!

    1. Martin Heavy-Guy

      Wish that was true, but it was so-called “Labour” that pushed Job-bridge onto the agenda in the first place.

      And then they voted the person who put it forward to the head of their party.

        1. edalicious

          “background” in this context is vague enough to be meaningless. Ty work experience would probably count.

  1. Robert

    In fairness this fits the profile of an actual “Internship” just so long as they’re actually doing professionally relevant work rather than making coffees or cleaning the jacks …

    1. ahjayzis

      What’s an ‘actual’ Internship?

      It’s the possibility for someone with parents willing to bankroll them gaining experience, that’s all. Free labour for the children of the well-heeled for the profit of others.

      People with parents with less money need not apply. The more the idea of an internship as a pre-requisite to starting a career, instead of traditional entry-level jobs, the more people coming from poorer backgrounds are purposefully hobbled and the less social mobility we have in this country.

      And besides, this job posting is demanding pre-existing skills and, crucially, experience – that used to be something you were paid for.

    1. MoyestWithExcitement

      Yep. But if anyone who can’t afford it gets a job, they’d better not strike cause that would be greedy. Poor people should know their place.

      1. Junkface

        Oh Lord….you’re hear too comrade??

        In what unviverse have interns ever had the leverage to go on strike?

        Jobbridge is openly abused by too many businesses. Time to shut it down

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            Good lad. So, I was comparing the attitude towards the employer in both situations. People are excusing Transdev with their ‘we can’t afford it’ line and admonishing the drivers by comparing their pay with other countries yet that attitude is turned 180 degrees here. TV3 are slave drivers according to you and you’ve not mentioned unpaid internships are very common in other countries. You are of course, way too stupid to see that so I’ll forgive you. Remember now, you’ve said you’re going to stop talking to me so I expect this post not to be answered by you. Good lad.

          2. Rob_G

            Apples and oranges, Moyest.

            TV3: want people to work for literally no money

            Luas: workers are demanding a 50% pay hike for doing the same job from an employer that is losing money.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            Again; “So, I was comparing the attitude towards the employer in both situations.” I was not comparing the actual situations.

          4. Termagant

            The key difference here, Moyes, is that the intern is unpaid, and the LUAS drivers are paid handsomely, while the intern is expected to have qualifications and experience, and the driver is expected to have the ability to stay awake for 8 hours at a time.

        1. ahjayzis

          This actually makes JobBridge look good – at least it’s a level playing field.

          This ‘opportuntiy’ actively makes you ineligible for the dole – only someone with private funds or well-off parents can’t take it up.

          1. ahjayzis

            Everyone on Job Bridge, bad as it is, is paid 150-238 quid per week.
            Bugger all, but it’s better than the nothing per hour this kip is offering for reasons I’ve posted earlier.

        2. pedeyw

          Shutting down job bridge won’t stop it. There was a fair amount of unpaid internships before and there will be if they shut it down.

          1. R J

            @ahjayzis That’s not true. I was getting a payment of €72 per week from Social Welfare. Being on a JobBridge scheme, which I have done, added €52.50 (was €50) prior to 2016 to my weekly income. That’s a total of €124.50 per week, of course it’s better than €0 but it’s not really good enough, is it? Especially for internships that require some professional experience.

  2. MoyestWithExcitement

    But but but but, TV3 obviously can’t afford to pay them and anyone expecting money for this is being greedy seeing as the big American tv stations don’t pay their interns, etc etc.

  3. newsjustin

    The thing is, there will be people who go for this. Mostly people who have a few bob tucked away and want a career change or someone who’s mam and dad can afford to host them for another 6 months.

    It’s cheaper than a Masters maybe and gets you into a “fashionable” industry.

    I think it’s sad and greedy and wrong. But they’ll get loads of people applying.

  4. Junkface

    This is slavery. TV3 are behaving like greedy scum. And anyway TV is a dying medium, ad revenues decrease every year. So are they really learning a valuable bunch of skills for the future? Not so sure

    1. rotide

      Broadcast TV as a medium may well be declining, however the skills are portable. It is the exact same process no matter what medium the content ends up on.

  5. loughreagal

    And I love the fact that they used the word “broadcasted” in the ad when in fact the correct word is “broadcast”. Illiterate as well!

  6. Jimmythehead

    To clarify, this was not posted or sanctioned by JobBridge. I researched thoroughly before contacting BS as I am a freelance video / animation creator so wouldn’t want to damage my reputation. I actually approve of JobBridge in theory if it is used correctly but having tried that route I know from first hand experience that the ratio of jobs/internships to people in need is desperately off balance. The definition of intern (for me) is someone in need of experience, not already experienced…. And most certainly not an unpaid employee who has to work longer hours and have a direct input on an already successful tv show.

    1. rotide

      everyone seems to be getting hung up on the ‘experience’ thing. They’re not looking for an exec producer here. They’re looking for someone who has been a runner or similar somewhere else. If you had 2 years in the liberties VEC doing TV production, it would probably do.

    2. munkifisht

      As I tend to I’ll reiterate my own experience with that slavery scheme jobbridge.

      I worked as an engineer for 4 years, went back to college to get a masters in bioengineering, got top of my class, came out into the working world. While I was there the scum now on the run, Labour brought in SlaveBridge. I hunted for a job for 3 years, had about 1 interview every 3-4 weeks, So, plenty of interviews and was unlucky on a few occasions I’m sure, but I was told on more than one occasion by employers that despite the fact I had 4 years industry experience the only way I was going to get into the industry was to quit the job I had at the time (a role I took just to pay the bills) sit on the dole for 6 months, and then come in as an intern. It was something I was A) not prepared to do and B) couldn’t afford to do. I’ve taken my skills that the Irish taxpayer invested so much in and am now paying tax in the UK. JobBridge is the worst thing to happen to the Irish employee since the lock-out.

      1. JimmyTheHead

        Terrible story, sorry to hear that. People seem to think the whole situation is a fancy-pants media problem, but Ive encountered folk from every trade and profession who have had similar experiences. I hope you get to make the trip home one day!

  7. DepthChargeEthel

    Disgraceful, but hardly surprising at this stage. However it seems that routing young people into internships is the standard approach to their unemployment status. My son had a meeting this morning with an employment support service for people who have a disability or health issue, he is recovering from depression. The “support service” worker he met talked positively a lot about internships. They insisted he should sign on, despite it being highly unlikely that he will be permitted to claim any allowances since both Head Adults of the house work, and I was not entitled to any allowances when I was unemployed as my partner earns over the meagre threshold. Despite him explaining this situation they still insisted he should sign on, as apparently it makes you more employable, first I’ve heard of that? Then they resumed championing internships, so I think we can see where this is heading.

    1. DepthChargeEthel

      Not to mention the truly scum sucking Jobbridge and “independent” internship “vacancies” such as that which Jimmythehead posted in the first place that demand existing skills and experience in order to work for free!! And for 6 months, wtaf!!!!

    2. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

      Not sure if this is even still relevant but I know that when I was looking for work, some FAS jobs required you to have been unemployed for a period of X months before you would even be considered. So no harm signing on so he can meet those criteria – some of them where quite good jobs too!

      Hope he finds one soon

  8. Junkface

    When Donald Trump is posting up ads for interns in his Golf Pro shop (to manage the shop) in Co.Clare you know there’s a serious problem with Jobbridge

          1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            Trump sounds like farts, both his name and anything that comes out of his mouth

            *trump*

      1. Junkface

        “Please clap” , you have to check out that Jeb clip on youtube

        Ha ha…ah poor old Jeb. My mom says I would be a really good President!

        Sorry, off point.

  9. rotide

    This is nothing new. This is how most most media (tv/film/sound etc) generally works. You get your foot in the door being an ‘intern’ (read, general skivvie who does everything from cleaning toilets to actual useful things) and if you’re any use you’ll get asked back or make a few contacts.

    It’s how it was and how it will always continue to be because of how budgeting works.

    1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

      Which is fine when you are starting out. Asking for someone who already has experience of TV production and writing briefs etc is starting to take the pi**, you aren’t training someone from scratch, you are asking them to bring their skills, that they already have in for free.

      1. rotide

        I’m starting to wonder has anyone here ever written a CV.

        You know the way you ‘padded’ your CV when you first went job hunting? This is the same thing. When they say they are looking for experience, they’ll take the most experience they can get. You don’t need to be Ed Guiney. The ability to write briefs is just an idiot check, they’re not looking for a copywriter here.

        1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

          “When they say they are looking for experience, they’ll take the most experience they can get. ”

          And at some point you need to start paying for that – which is my point.

          1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            So you shouldn’t pay people because they aren’t qualified but if they have skills you shouldn’t pay them either?

          2. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            Ideally. That doesn’t seem to be how the system works though. They might take it if they can’t get anything else and are forced to do nonsense like Jobbridge or lose their benefit or if they are in that weird in between bit where you don’t quite have enough skills but you have some and can’t catch a break.

          3. rotide

            As i touched on below, whatever the cons of jobbridge, it’s a godsend for an industry like TV and media production.

            As to the rest of it, it’s tough but it’s a tough area to get into. Massively tough if someone is switching careers. Even entry level pay which is often below minimum wage doesn’t ease that.

          4. Owen C

            A girl i know did an low paid/unpaid internship at an ad agency (so lets just call it a similar industry) after leaving college. No promise but obviously the ‘hope’ that it would either result in a full time job or count as experience on the CV. She didn’t think twice about taking the opportunity. At the end of the internship (3-4 months i think), she took the opportunity to do a 12 month study-work visa thing in NY. Similar story there – few days a week unpaid internship in an ad agency, worked nights in a bar. Came back here, same story – low paid internship with ad agency in Dublin for six months. This has resulted in a full time job. She (a) thought this process was quite normal and (b) did not think it was unduly unfair, just a fact of life.

      2. ahjayzis

        It is NOT fine if you’re starting out – it’s slamming the door in the face of people depending on what their parents earn, not based on their talents.

        1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

          There are intern schemes run by smart companies that pay travel and food costs – its not all middle class folk getting all the benefits. I did one just like it when I was starting out.

          But I realise I was lucky. All internships should be like this.

          1. ahjayzis

            This still lands costs on parents – and if you don’t have rent-free accommodation and free breakfast and dinner you’re shown the door. Entry-level jobs were a good thing, lets bring them back.

          2. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

            I had savings – again I was lucky.

            I know what you are saying – internships at the moment are completely taking the p***. They should be what they used to be, a way for people to bypass education and go straight into work but they aren’t. It would take a smart government to cop on, enforce minimum standards such as travel or food for example and realise they are a great way to get people going rather than basically a jip.

    2. MoyestWithExcitement

      The point is only people from certain backgrounds can afford to work for nothing for 6 months. There’s also the whole questionable concept of taking someone’s labour for free.

    3. rotide

      Having said all that, 6 months is taking the widdle. Usually stuff like this is on a shoot by shoot basis or a week or two

    4. Junkface

      Having worked in Production studios over the last 16 years, I think what you are describing used to be called a runner. And they were paid a minimum wage for their work. ‘Interns’ is an American idea which came in and changed that about 10 or 12 years ago, slavery became so hip!

      1. rotide

        Having been a runner longer than 16 years ago, I can assure you that runners were not always paid a minimum wage.

          1. JimmyTheHead

            You always seem to say the opposite of whatever is the obvious answer, to a point that you even annoy yourself. Im not trying to poke fun buddy just concerned for you. Ive read alot of your comments and there seems to be a sane, reasonable person in there somewhere.

          1. rotide

            Generally it worked like, you were a runner for a single event (like a shoot, or a recording or whatever) and if they liked you got asked back to do it again, maybe with a few quid thrown your way.

            As far as i know, it still sort of works like that. In bigger production/post-production/recording studies, jobbridge has taken the place of that system somewhat. Which just goes to show that job bridge is a good idea.

  10. Sophia

    I saw a junior graphic design internship on job bridge once looking for 3 to 5 years experience in graphic design company. It’s disgraceful how young graduates are being treated just to gain experience to put on a cv. If you don’t have enough experience for an internship how are you ever going to have enough experience for a good job. Also such high expectations for no money fts.

  11. Whatevs

    Aspects of the Media industry has always been like this. doing Sound Engineering in the late 90’s I worked 3 days a week from around 1pm – 6pm in a place that rented out audio equipment. I fixed speakers, wired cables, and painted Speaker cabinets, I’d tidy up their basement, and prep and test audio equipment coming in/out. On some occasions I’d install lights into venues after hours. I remember once after helping set up lights in a venue one of the owners gave me £10. I was working there 6 months in total and that was the only payment (cash or payment-in-kind) I ever received

    My next place was a bigger company, and again I was the “Yellow Packer”. Every company in this space had one. I worked there for a year, where my hours were 10am – 5pm and I’d work almost every weekend doing gigs, meaning my Fri/Sat day was often from 10am – 4am. During the 1st year, I went without being paid a penny before I felt I knew enough, had the experience, and therefore was in a position to demand payment. After that I was paid very handsomely, albeit for what was a vocation and not a job! (but that’s another complaint for another day)

    Anyway, my rambling point is that unpaid internships have always existed in the Music Industry and will continue to. I worked my arse off for 18months unpaid from 1996 – 1998 and didn’t complain, it was the only way to get a foothold in the industry and I imagine it remains the same today.

    1. rotide

      This mirrors my experience (although i didn’t have it as bad as you, fair play!) and is far more eloquently put than my efforts.

    2. JimmyTheHead

      It was a good 5 years before I had a job that would equal someone in a normal profession, I work in animation and graphics for TV. Every internship (or work experience as we called it) paid me at the very least expenses, but I still had to get a job in a call centre 4 days a week / 12 hour shifts – to pay rent and eat food!

  12. Martin Heavy-Guy

    They have another internship on that site for Walt Disney that states: “This internship is vital in ensuring the teams delivery in 2016 -2017.” And that is for a multinational company based in the US.

    The only justification I could ever see for internships (and this justification only barely crosses my threshold of acceptability) was if the employer would not be able to continue without an intern. That was the justification put forward for Job-Bridge, to keep Irish companies alive after we were forced to pay billions to gamblers bailed out the banks. The company is kept ticking over (and hopefully hires the intern once things get going) and the intern gets experience either way. Any company that can pay its employees should, end of story.

  13. Neilo

    Can an argument be made that employers in prestigious, over-subscribed sectors can afford to chance their arm in filling these entirely unpaid posts because they know candidates would beat down the door for any opportunity? Not a huge fan of unpaid work myself but there’s a brutal, demand-led logic behind this thinking.

    1. Martin Heavy-Guy

      Yup, but I think that point is made earlier in the comments. The only people beating down that door are the people who can afford to (from family helping them out with cash or similar). People who have no money can’t do internships, can’t get work afterward, and in the end can’t get decent jobs. This needs to be regulated because it widens the poverty gap and companies will happily have interns til the cows come home unless the law tells them otherwise.

      1. Junkface

        I agree Martin, its getting well out of hand and needs to be regulated. I would hate to be graduating from a media/commercial art degree now. Slavery is just expected for the first 2 years in the industry. Its Horrible

  14. Simon

    TV3 generally offer good internships and I know people on the show that go their full-time position through a JobBridge. But, asking for someone with TV production experience is a bit rich. If they have production experience then the shouldn’t be needing to revert to a JobBridge.

    1. JimmyTheHead

      Again, not a position thats been offered through Job Bridge. If it was then the applicant would have their social welfare payments plus €50 a week on top of it. If someone on SW was to accept this position they would have their payments revoked. Only know this from being in this exact position personally.

  15. The Real Jane

    Anyway, speaking of JobBridge, I know a woman who got a marketing internship for six months. As it was up and the next intern (another young woman) was starting, she was told by one of the employees that there had been around 30 young, attractive women interns in the place.

    They never took any of them on.

    Bit of cake for the guy who runs it though – an endless stream of young women in and out of the office, and he doesn’t even have to pay to employ them for as long as it happens to suit and replace at will.

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