Stillorgan dual carriageway during the recent VHI Women’s Mini Marathon
“Last Monday I was a participant in the “fast jogger” category of the women’s mini-marathon, running with my aunt, a victor over breast cancer, in Dublin on a hot summer’s day.
On three occasions I was exposed to what what I would consider sexism in the form of “motivational” slogans: “Run like you left the immersion on!”, “The N11 never looked so good!” and “Don’t worry, ladies, the hair still looks gorgeous!”
The first two slogans appeared in fabric stretched across the footbridge of the Stillorgan dual-carriageway.
The latter was shouted by a member of the Order of Malta. To my astonishment, most women around me did not find fault with any of these slogans.
In fact, they cheered on the troglodyte and seemed genuinely validated by his creepy flattery.
Are the old concepts of our worth as women so embedded into the female Irish psyche that comments such as these automatically elicit a positive response of appreciation or, at the very least, an embarrassed smile?”
Christina Cleary, in this morning’s Irish Times
FIGHT!
‘Run like you left the immersion on!’ – Everyday sexism and the mini marathon (Irish Times)
Meanwhile…
Were St Joseph’s Centre for dementia care being sexist when they made the same immersion joke for their campaign? pic.twitter.com/axeFJMpzcW
— Joe Leogue (@JoeLeogue) June 9, 2016
Thanks Rotide
Pics via CJNíChléirigh and Lindie Naughton
the dementia one is absolutely tasteless. well, they both are, but you kind of come to expect this mammyish sexism-lite raimeis for women’s marathons.
sexism-lite? Where and how is that sexism.
I am presuming because it is a women only race.
ah, sure, they all have lovely bottoms.
Christina needs to stop being so sensitive. The lad shouting is the only thing on here that is sexist. Id run faster if I thought the immersion was on, and I would love to be told I look well running.
I’ve grown tired of people who have nothing better to do then find offence and fault in everything they see/read/hear.
Christina, do yourself a favor and don’t leave your house again.
It seems to me that the more universal an experience is, the more pointed the sexism when it is nonetheless specifically associated one gender, trivial and all as it might seem.
Build a bridge and get over yourself.
Just because I’m a man doesn’t mean I’m qualified for major infrastructurel engineering projects.
At least we can agree it would be a substantial engineering challenge to build that bridge.
lol Nigel
Requiring years of planning, public consultation, a tortuous tendering process, a public private partnership with ridiculously profitable provisions for the private company at public expense and then they build it in the wrong place.
And lets not forget the endless sexual harassment lawsuits to deal with due to over sensitive women in the work place.
BOOM ! :)
Wasn’t getting anything done anyway because all the make employees were too busy harassing women on the internet.
Lol
Build a house then Nigel we need to house the homeless
It’s called the ‘snowflake generation’. Millennials who seek to be mollycoddled and are constantly offended by everything.
Personally, I’m neither a woman or a runner. But if I thought I’d left the immersion on, I’d leggit!
The one about the traffic on the N11 is a fair point… For anyone who has ever driven along that road at any time of day!
Who are the real snowflakes? The one woman who made the criticism or the scoffing, eyerolling, sneering drama lords having elaborately adolescent reactions to it?
Both.
For someone so quick to jump to the defence of travellers/refugees etc and make claims of racism, it’s interesting how quick you are to scoff at this and call it out as “gender roles” rather than sexist comments.
And no, not the immersion one. Been over that.
OK….?
“The one about the traffic on the N11 is a fair point… For anyone who has ever driven along that road at any time of day!”
#bants
I wasn’t aware that leaving the immersion on was a gender specific thing. Doesn’t Des Bishop do a routine on it? The N11 one *could* be construed as a bit demeaning but at a stretch. The hair one was just about gender roles. No worse than selling your TVs to men using a football based promotion.
There seems to be an entire sub-genre of comedy related to the immersion in Ireland.
Bants
Run like you’ve left the immersion on, Run like you’re late for mass. That’s just being Irish – we’ve all be battered for leaving immersion on. There is merit to the rest of her article but, like, come on – relax.
The “come on ladies, your hair still looks gorgeous” is sexist for sure but it wasn’t an official slogan.
“Are the old concepts of our worth as women so embedded into the female Irish psyche that comments such as these automatically elicit a positive response of appreciation or, at the very least, an embarrassed smile?” You’re right there.
Overall there’s a mix there, is the ladies Mini Marathon inherently sexist? I don’t really think so. Do we encounter sexism daily, yes.
People need to be protected from embarrassment!
We need a movement to protect people from getting embarrassed !
I would say things like this continually remind me that I am thought of as “less” than men no matter what I am doing rather than embarrassed. Some days, when its nonsense like this, you brush it off but it’s still there. Other days when it’s a guy sucking his teeth at me in the street because I dared to wear shorts, it’s a reminder of how unsafe because I am thought of as “less”.
This is something that always irks me slightly. When you say you are thought of as ‘less’, it is not by society. It’s by some arsehole.
People who think of others as ‘less’ will find any reason to think of others as less. They’re a woman, they’re black, they’re fat, they’re ginger, they’re from the northside and crucially, the opposite of these also.
It’s not just you because you are a woman, its you because you are not them.
Incdentally, I don’t believe any of the banners mentioned above count as sexism
No, it’s by both
Spoken like a true society bottomhole
Some people need to be protected from women who dare to talk abut these things, apparently.
As they’re all out at night drinking with their bridge building bffs
I know you’re taking the piss but that would be great.
Also I don’t think that makes sense responding to my comment.
+1
– also, I imagine the comments eliciting a positive response was done to the ladies accepting them in the spirit in which they were intended (as in, the your man was probably a little bit sexist, but was trying to be encouraging & positive).
* was down to
Yeah, the immersion thing definitely isn’t gendered.
http://www.hairybaby.com/did-you-turn-off-the-immersion/
A shouted comment about a group of women’s appearance from a male bystander is clearly sexist and demeaning, no matter how it’s intended.
Another one……”Drive it like you stole it”
I prefer ride him like you stole him
Haha that’s an excellent one.
I get why you might be a bit miffed at “the n11 never looked better ” or “don’t worry ye look gorgeous ” but don’t think she gets the immersion one, that’s been on the net as an Irish nostalgia thing for ages, similar to saying “run like you’re late for mass”
Not sure about the immersion one, since it seems panicking about leaving the bloody immersion on is surely universal… then again reserving it as a slogan for a woman’s marathon does suggest that it is seen as primarily a woman’s concern, so, yeah. One is tempted to say lighten up about it, I suppose, but to lighten up about it is to not think about it, and you should really give anyone who tells you to stop thinking serious side-eye.
Isn’t any slogan directed at the women running going to be perceived as sexist? Because it’s directed at women.
Not sure that’s a excuse to just dive in head-fiirst into the sexism and start splashing the sexism about as if it’s a bubble party in a fountain.
You just described modern feminism
… http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415fqT6w9NL._SY355_.jpg
Campers. This is *your* experience of modern feminism. It is not the definition of modern feminism.
I sure did! Next time the feminists grope and harass you and all the other men in the street shake your fist at ’em for me!
Oh here we go.
Why not have a go at the Fathers for Justice as well seeing as you’re so righteous, brother?
OK, a loud set within feminism. Let’s just not pretentd they don’t exist.
I will not pretend they do not exist. but if you want to argue with them you should wait for some of them to show up.
That’d be a lot easier if feminists decried the whacky crap out of feminism, like the man hating drivel from Una Mullally …but you know what, she gets cheered on by mainstream feminists for her misandry, so the mainstream needs to differentiate itself from the crap, like top feminists have said, such as Kimberle Crenshaw who called for feminists to declare ‘nothing to do with me’ when whack jobs speak of inequality measures that jar with feminism. Things like the indoctrination of men into believing they are a threat to women due to feminism labeling all men as “potential rapists”. Yes, Una Mullaly has called for that, the stigmatisation of men into being labelled criminals, guilty until proven innocent. And all to be done under the watch of feminism, not even allowing men have their own groups, they have to be done by feminists… only a moron would see that as a good idea.
It’s oppressive, passive aggressive idiocy to label a gender as inherently evil in such a manner.
It is most certainly not the actions of an “equality” movement.
Will you be decrying that….. when it raises it’s head again?
I don’t think so, not judging by the support she gets when she spouts such bile.
Maybe, maybe not, but a) I’m not sure these are accurate descriptions of arguments that are being made, b) your counterarguments aren’t up to much – ‘man hating drivel’ is about the extent of it – and c) the idea that feminists don’t critique or even attack each other over this and other stuff shows your reading into the matter isn’t very deep, all of which is about standard for people having go at feminism.
Funnily enough, I don’t think I’ve ever defended Una Mulally, except maybe in passing? I still wouldn’t trust an anti-feminist description of anything she’s written, because distortion, decontextualisation, bad-faith paraphrasing and outright lying are standard with anti-feminists. If you don’t like that or think I’m being unfair, blame the anti-feminist internet. They’re so much worse than even the whackiest feminist – – being on occasion actually physically dangerous – that concerns about feminism being oppressively passive aggressive seem pale by comparison.
Well in my limited experience of being a woman who sometimes run (I’ve done it lots but I’m only one person which does limit my expertise), I’d say I don’t manage half my runs without a smart remark from a man or carful of De Lads. It does build up, you know. It’s possible that for a lot of women, this race is the biggest thing they’ve done, they’ve been catcalled, they’ve been exhausted but they’re here.
And they’re still getting it. Just can’t be left to it to do their thing without a comment.
“It’s possible that for a lot of women, this race is the biggest thing they’ve done”
“To my astonishment, most women around me did not find fault with any of these slogans.”
Honestly, the latter suggests just how starved of support, compliments, approval and good-humoured attention women can be. Completely surrounded by a mob of happy women egging each other on and having a brilliant time, everything positive directed at them probably buoyed them up. Given the circumstances, Christina above is taking the risk of being a spoil-sport – she’s certainly being treated as one – but she has a point.
Not immediately finding fault and posting it all over Twitter is not the same as women seeing them and thinking “seriously? wtf? Again?”. I know that would have been my reaction.
“but she has a point.”
She has an opinion that the banners were sexist. I can’t see how the immersion one was sexist. The one about hair is most about gender roles than bigotry. Men like football and beer. Women like shopping and fancy hair cuts. Is that true of all, even most, women and men? No, but it is true for a sizeable amount of them, enough for large companies to spend adverising money to play to those stereotypes. I’m not sure if it’s demeaning. The one about looking good could be construed as demeaning alright, but it meant well and it’s a banner. I think she’s being over sensitive. I’m not denying that people who get over sensitive about sexism or racism or homophobia or whatever often are so because of a traumatic experience or a series of bad ones, but the rest of us can’t really be expected to adhere to it.
Nicely put Moyest
Oh please . This sanitised , sterile , faux Joan of Arc view of feminisim is bloody exhausting and tedious . And unsurprisingly ,elicits such
patronising comments as:
” It’s possible that for a lot of women, this race is the biggest thing they’ve done, they’ve been catcalled, they’ve been exhausted but they’re here
Why feed a stereotype by pandering to it!
feminism .
Kinda breezed past the fact that she gets harassment on about half her runs to damn feminism, didn’t you?
I’d vouch for that . Literally can’t remember one training run without some twit letting you know he loves your bottom.
Give them the side-eye, you’re right actually. In my comment above I do say relax but you’re right it’s always good to start the conversation.
Indeed, that and men dressing up as ghastly parodies of women as a (non) joke. Because women are hilarious – not like, funny, you wouldn’t want to see a woman comedian – but you know, they have funny woman voices and mannerisms and are a bit foolish and have funny hair and lots of makeup and comedy breasts.
Does it offend you? Should be banned so. No one should have to put up with being offended.
I didn’t say anything should be banned. I didn’t mention the word at all.
Look Jane, the men of BS have spoken and it’s not sexist, not even in the slightest. They would know after all.
Well certainly you wouldn’t want to be relying on women to know what’s going on.
Ah yes. If facing criticism, resort to the ‘Mansplaining’ complaint. Standard BS fare.
Yes, because you pretty much all are doing it. So well done!
Way to stifle opposing opinions there. Well done! #feminism
Considering that Owen interjected himself into a conversation between 2 women that was not concerned with him at all nor addressed him, I’d say he almost reached peak mansplaining there.
Yeah, you really honed in on the opinion-stifling comment there. Good job.
Tbf DP this side is all about interjecting oneself into conversations that does not concern one not is addressed at oneself.
At least, that’s my understanding.
This is me doing so again.
How meta.
Brendan O Carroll made a career out of that muck.
The thing is, those slogans are just rehashed lazy Irish advertisement writers doing the same thing they do for Radio and TV ads. Insurance companies are the worst when they try to be “witty”. I’m not sure how offensive it is to women really. There is a culture of people looking to be offended by anything nowadays, especially on social media.
So this stuff is lazy, rehashed and insurance companies are the worst, but still women are wrong for criticising it. And somehow these things can’t be offensive because they’re advertising? Amazing.
I meant its offensive to everyone Irish as it is spewed out all over the radio and TV by a bunch of hacks, but yeah the hair remark is a bit offensive to women, but not the immersion one.
That is not what that tired old comedy cliche is based on.
The ‘men dressed up as women’ thing is because men can’t officially register for the event. Most men entering dress up as part of raising money for charity.
The irony that Ms Cleary is giving out about sexism in a “Women Only” race seems to escape her. Doubt a Men Only mini marathon would ever get out of the planning stage. The men (myself included) who have entered before also raise money for charity, also run 10k and also wear the same pink wigs and feather boas as a lot of real women in the race as both know they are not serious athletes and are having fun while doing a bit of good. But no medal for you at the end you scoundrel. I done it 2 years ago and the girl at the end gave me a medal by mistake but thankfully the helpful ladies behind me roared as if I stole a baby and it was wrestled off me by another male medal giver. Hate to deprive them of €2.99.
That’s not ironic at all. You moaning about the medal is. Passive aggressive too.
Don’t get ya Dan on the irony or passive aggressive thing. My point a woman and a man set off on the same day to do the exact same thing albeit voluntary but when the task is complete the woman gets a token of reward but the man doesn’t because of his gender. Gender discrimination = Sexism so why should sexism towards men be any different to sexism towards women.
Or you could look it as person enters event from which they are explicitly excluded in full knowledge of that fact and doesn’t get a prize because the prizes are for legitimate entries. It’s like that time I won the under 6s sack race. I rooled all but did I get a chocolate coin? Well, you can just guess.
Ageism.
“The women only” race is a direct result of, and an attempt to redress, sexism. Complaining that it’s sexist is one of the clearest examples of irony i’ve ever seen tbh.
The “women only” race is supposed to put a positive focus, and provide an opportunity to participate in, women’s achievements, even if it’s only to show support.
Men can join in the “women only” race to show their support.
You joining to show your support and now actually literally complaining that you didn’t get a medal is Alan Partridge level irony.
Sexism towards men is different to sexism towards women because of context.
But that’s not even relevant here, yes sexism affects men, yes that’s a bad thing and needs to be addressed, yes male gender roles can be incredibly damaging and males are disproportionately affected by suicide etc.
What does that have to do with this conversation? Absolutely nothing and bringing it up seems more like concern trolling than anything else.
Blond ladies with big boobs are even funnier , just so silly
Jesus, get a bloody life.
I think your comment sums this nonsense up quite well.
Somebody has little to be worrying about.
Perception is a mirror. The immersion joke is an Irish thing, not a sexist thing. Des Bishop has been using it for about a century now. Maybe the N11 never looked so good because it’s full of runners out raising money for various charities or because it’s full of people exercising instead of sitting in cars/ traffic.
It’s not hard to find sexism if the aim is to find sexism but that doesn’t mean that a thing is even accidentally sexist.
Yeah, why can’t women just lighten up and stop thinking about things through the distorted lens of their perception? It’s nothing for anyone to think about, let someone who isn’t affected by it tell you how to react.
I said none of those things. I offered a different interpretation. Sexism affects us all and there’s plenty of everyday sexism without having to stretch for examples like this.
Er that is ordinary common everyday sexism, so prevalent and taken for granted that the primary criticism of people responding to it is that they’re mad and daft for noticing it at all.
http://www.hairybaby.com/did-you-turn-off-the-immersion
So is this t-shirt with an immesrion joke part of the ordinary, common, everyday sexism which is so prevalent and taken for granted?
Not directed at women so far as I can tell, so… no?
If was directed at men, would then also be sexist?
But the exact same joke – that the Irish are obsessed with the immersion status – becomes sexist if the intended audience is female?
Not in any way that mattered, and if it was commonly directed at men as well as women, to the extent that it was generally directed at anyone who ever left the bloody immersion on, it would defuse the sexism a lot, if not completely.
But it is generally directed at Irish people, irrespective of gender.
Not in this case it wasn’t.
Maybe it was directed at them be a useful they are Irish and running? Something doesn’t automatically become sexist just because women are the intended audience.
*because they are Irish….ffs
I think that’s an argument that can be made, sure. Apparently I was unaware of the sheer prevalence of immersion humour in Irish society.
You have been missing out on the immersion heater humour, Nigel. A shame too. You would’ve been in your element.
where would we be without some man to explain to us all how it all works?
I’d say the N11 thing being about their looks is a safe bet but maybe Helen from Lucan who comes home from her office job to look after her 3 kids every day and wanted to do the marathon to break the drudgery of routine and/or get the fitness she lost to her kids back, will be tickled by it and less offended by it than a professional athlete.
(I’m genuinely not having a go here.) Starting your post with “i’d say” sort of proves my point that it’s open to interpretation. The columnist interpreted it as sexist, I offered two other interpretations. Maybe it’s a “Fk yeah! Look at this girl power in action!” or maybe it is as simple as “they all have lovely bottoms”. Whatever the banner maker intended, once it was put up it was open to everyone to put their own meaning to but that doesn’t make it sexist. It just means it was open to sexist interpretation and, as you said, maybe people took it to mean that looked great and maybe they got a kick out of it.
“Starting your post with “i’d say” sort of proves my point that it’s open to interpretation.”
I know. That’s why I said it was a “safe bet” it was about their looks. Do you think you’d see that banner at a men only race? Unlikely. My point was that one, or I, could see the rationale behind taking offence to it but to do so is over sensitive. She says herself most people around her had no problem with it.
*10km
Yes! Drives me nuts hearing people crowing about the “marathon” they did. This is the biggest offender but not the only one. Marathon should be a protected word, because 10km is far from a marathon, even if you add mini to the front.
Exactly! I said the same thing about ‘me’ when Austin Powers II came out but nobody listened and now look.
Was that a joke?
LOL?
Protecting words is NO joke.
Pretty frustrating call it what it is !
LOL!
Oh will yiz ever put a fuppin’ sock in it FFS !
Little tip: Be annoyed at discussions of sexism all you like, but try not to march in to the middle of one and tell women to shut up.
Your tip is defeatist as an approach to any discussion of any topic, telling people not to go in and call bullsh*t where you see it. Bullsh*t is still bullsh*t whether you are standing in the field surrounded by it or not, and bullsh*t should be called for what it is.
Maybe your advise is that modern / western feminism has lost it’s way so much, that you are holding up a warning sign to say… ‘it’s just not worth it’… but that too is defeatist. So fupp that. Bullsh*t is bullsh*t.
[ Plse note, I’d have used ‘cowsh*t’ but the male’s poo is what has been used to describe any ‘sh*t’ for as long as I can tell.
…..Hell, I’m sure someone will tell me, that’s a Patriarchal thing next :) ]
My advice is literally “don’t tell women to shut up.” That is all.
Say it’s bullshoot if you want. You just don’t get to decide who can talk.
Agreed
Boring and repetitive
I don’t think the topic is the annoyance. More that the starting point of the topic is weaker then any aspect of the discussion.
Do tell us Owen what would be an appropriate starting point for a discussion on sexism as you do not deem this to be worthy?
Maybe a good starting point would be some actual sexism instead of a barrel scraping attempt to find sexism in a joke about the immersion. How about the fact that a 10K is referred to as a mini-marathon when it’s a women only event?
Or that there is no ‘men only’ event for prostrate and testicular cancer.
There’s a moustache one in Paris , ladies have to wear a moustache.
If the immersion thing is Irish, fair dues. But the “hair” comment isn’t sexist? Saying the road looks prettier because it fill of lovely women isn’t sexist? Please. They are lame and sexist as hell.
Encouraging physical activity in a group that tends to give up sport because of sexist attitudes or feeling crap or nervous about their bodies is A.O.K with me. Saying it’s a mini-marathon? So what? 10k is still pretty far to run.
What, like Movember Owen? Movember which has only been including women for the last few years?
You can always organise a race yourself you know, nothing stopping you.
Don, the only aspect of it that is sexist is the lad shouting from the Order of Malta, as I said earlier.
“the road looks prettier because it fill of lovely women” was not commented. It was “The N11 never looked so good!”. I didn’t know a complement was now sexist.
For all of history men have been sorely deprived of men-only things.
The hair comment was one guy shouting. The immersion and “the N11 never looked so good” comments were on banners. (The N11 one said good. There was no mention of pretty.) Two out of the three examples of everyday sexism in the article were purely sexist based on interpretation rather than intent. The third, the shouted comment, is a different story.
Y’know it should probably be possible for a woman to describe how she interpreted something as sexist and people responding in such a way that didn’t necessarily agree with that interpretation but which didn’t excoriate her for daring to hold that opinion.
(I’m not saying you excoriated her, Repro. In any sensible discussion you’d be the hon. opposition.)
Repro – I’ve already said the immersion thing being Irish, I didn’t know that but guess what – I will listen to the Irish people saying it is and give them the benefit of the doubt!
And a road looking “good” because it is fill of women isn’t at all based on how women are lovely and pretty? Oh come on now….
Is it the greatest example of sexism ever seen? No. Doesn’t it rely on women being judged for their physical attractiveness at a level men simply aren’t? Yes. Sexist innit.
Even if it is…. so what! Get over it
Not necessarily Don. That’s interpretation again. It could look good because it’s full of thousands of people exercising and raising money for charity. I’m going to hazard a guess here that Vhi, if they provided the banners, didn’t go about it with a lovely girls approach. Even if the comment was aimed at appearance, is telling women they look good sexist?
I know exactly what they were getting at with this banner made specifically for a female only race.
And unless women are specifically there to look good – ie modelling something – yes it is. It reduces women to their physical appearance yet again.
Look, this is the same argument that comes up with race. Jewish guy/Muslim women/ African-American/Najavo rabbi whoever sees something says it racist – I tend to listen to them, see what they are saying and go, ok you know what, that is kinda racist and crappy. I don’t go on and on and oh but its about how you interpret it that makes it racist, I see that their experiences know more than me and I learn from them and say, you know what? I understand a little more about your life now.
Women do and it’s all “over-sensitive” (hella sexist in itself) this, snowflakes that. LISTEN.
Ok, Thanks Don.
My initial comment was that I don’t think the topic is the annoyance. More that the starting point of the topic is weaker then any aspect of the discussion.
I feel your defense of the argument of sexism, and acceptance of this starting point being weak (really only the guy shouting, bar minority interpretation) fully supports my initial comment.
I think we are done here.
Oh, you aren’t going to tell what is and isn’t sexist anymore? Boohoo
Sorry Don but you don’t know exactly what they were getting at. You believe you know but unless you sat in the room when they came up with the banner you don’t know. Instead you’re using your belief to assign it a meaning and deciding that the meaning you assign to it is the only possible meaning and since your meaning could be considered sexist decrying the banner as sexist.
I’ll leave that entirely to you princess. I’ll just point out when the starting point is, well…..pointless.
Princess?! Well well well. Owen showing your true colours
@Repro – yes, I do know. I know exactly what they mean. Do I think they sat down and said “lets make a sexist banner about lovely ladies?”. No. Do I think that the banner is informed by sexist opinions of women? Yes.
I’ll remember that its allllll about interpretation the next time there’s a “was it for this” post then shall I? Or some racist comment about Irish people? Sure, you’re only reading into it what you want!
You guys need to totally have a chat to yourself and cop the fupp on.
Hey guys, Don has decided it’s sexist so we need stop thinking for ourselves and just accept her world view as the only possible and correct one.
Great, that solves that then
Don, you fought the honourable and exhaustive fight there. I would’ve given up long ago and told them to fupp off.
And for what it’s worth, I reckon every woman reading your comments knew exactly what you meant. Even if the utter meatheads here can’t see it. x
“I reckon every woman reading your comments knew exactly what you meant.”
I barely scanned them to be honest..
Just messin’, sorry. x
Thanks mildred! I did debate it but I think it’s very important to note that sexism isn’t just “show us your tits love”, it’s these snide little comments as well and that women are getting justabittiredofitnowthankyouverymuchcanyouallstop.
What I don’t get it how reasonably smart fellows can totally understand racist dogwhistle comments and what they mean but God have mercy if a women suggests, not even gets mad about something, just suggests that it might be a little on the sexist side. You get 200 comments saying that no, she’s oversensitive, it’s just gender roles or no even the slightest bit sexist at all no sir.
Don’t you start Anne… :)
Indeed. Well done Don. We all gained from this today.
IRON MY SHIRT.
The immersion one just highlights what a bunch of whinging knobheads some people have become, ready to be offended by anything.
leaving the immersion on is a gender non-specific comment, get a f’in grip.
I have run a hell of a lot of road races both here and in Europe and have seen all sorts of posters and signs cheering people on.
Have seen this one before and it is in no way gender specific. If nothing else it brings out a smile as you tip along at whatever pace you have trained to run at.
the title of the race is gender specific and perhaps the writer took offence because of that. Perhaps if she ran a few more races she might see some of these signs. Lighten up, enjoy the run and be thankful that you can!
Yeah, lighten up ladies! It’s funny! Don’t be such snowflakes!
FFS…
You know… you being offended over something so silly has the exact opposite effect you want it to.
It just makes you look needy and dull.
OH NOES BILLY DOESNT LIKE ME
I like you. You should just try to not be so needy.
*Makes nuanced arguments about sexism, gets called needy*
Thanks for proving my point! Have a nice day now
You too!
The whole thing is a disgrace Joe. In this day and age and all.
[ spot on :-) ]
Every time I’m invited to my mother in-law’s BBQs she always makes me cook the food, like I’m genetically predisposed to be better at or I enjoy BBQing because of my gender! Sexist b1tch!
Leaving alone the sexism comments Christina has no problem saying her aunt was a victor against cancer therefore implying anyone who dies from cancer is a loser. Nothing pisses me off more than it being described as a battle / fighting bravely etc. Sorry a bit of a tangent.
This. Also worth a dive into articles about the “pinkification” of breast cancer which discuss this a lot.
Lol who’s a little snowflake? I’m so confused
I’m offended that someone is offended. I’m also offended by those that aren’t offended.
Sorry if I caused any offence.
Against all forms of idiot-defining slogans such as this, but I think it’s less sexist that the writer purports. Men, as spouses and partners, are usually the target for this kind of thing – revealed as an idiot beer-swigging footie fan incapable of making household decisions like their clever female other half. If you were to sharpen your attentive skills to the advertising you hear and see every day….the dire attempts of making you laugh and the belittling of your intelligence will tell you a lot about the industry.
Portraying men as lovable incapable slobs in domestic settings reinforced women’s role as the primary houseworker.
Sexism against men is actually really sexism against women.
Got it.
You’ll always have that Pepsi Diet Coca Cola Whatever ad, rotide. That’s the high watermark of global misandry right there, no question.
Lol – poor guy
Same goes with presents for Father’s Day or anything like that – it’s always beer, BBQs or meat. Nothing for the teetotal vegan poet dad at all! :)
19th June everybody. That’s Sunday week. SUNDAY WEEK.
“Don’t Forget
To Call Your Mammy”
Pure #sexist….. why didn’t they ask to call Daddy!? This IS AN OUTRAGE ! God damned Matriarchy !
Some out of touch patronizing, CLOWN left in charge of the banners. VHI was it? Sure hope they didn’t pay some PR firm for that job. Desperate. They’re also saying women running were working class by suggesting they’ve all left the immersion on? Can’t believe some idiot actually got paid for that.
Stall the ball there pal, what the actual hell is working class about leaving the immersion on?
Is your post tongue in cheek or what?
Darling , one has an agga
Darling. I’m certain you were brought up properly but have simply forgotten the word is “Aga”.
Winner
Is this sarcasm? I hope not, it’d be funnier if it’s not.
In many ways this is a form of rape, these poor women were exposed to hate speech we need tougher hate speech laws to prevent this kind of mass misogyny from happening again.
THIS.
Mass misogyny …is there anything to be said for another mass misogyny rally Ted?
I’d like all comments from men deleted from this thread.. do it admins.. do it now. Thanks.
That’s sexist.
by definition, you CANNOT be sexist to men, sexism = power + male privilege
That’s generally how it works… Imagine that. Like racism affecting mostly black and asian people.
I’m joking about deleting the men’s comments.. as in I’ve no sway with the admins..but don’t you just love how some men feel like they know what it’s like to be a woman.
They’ll never be called trollops, or floozeys, or whores.. they’re generally not objectified. They’ll generally never be subject to women passing around photos of them in the office an rating them on shagability.. etc etc. Sexism is everywhere.. and it’s generally not directed at men, so like be quiet for a change and appreciate where this woman might be coming from.
ugh ikr, men have the audacity to try and deny their privilege using excuses like men making up almost the entirety of suicides, industrial accidents and even rapes (as if prison rape counts as rape *rolls eyes*) worldwide, and some bigoted straight white male had the audacity recently to say that the most sexist phrase in the english language is “man up”, I reported him for hate speech against women but unfortunately nothing was done, another example of the patriarchy in action.
@jimmy I’ve read there are more suicide attempts by women.. they’re just not as successful.
They should get a man to show them how to do it properly.
lol Clampers!! :)
@Jimmy… you can’t be letting women know men have problems that re on a bigger scale than theirs. That’s anti-feminist !
And it will be shut down and ridiculed for all and any attempts at balance! Know your place, you are a ‘potential rapist’ and you will be indoctrinated into believing it!
Well if you;re going to treat your bigger problems sorely as a competitive point scoring against feminists you’re not taking them very seriously and you’re certainly not doing anything to address them effectively yourself. You’re definitely ding men a disservice in using them as ammunition to shoot at feminists.
For once I agree with you Anne – this could be the start of something special- well said!
Hahaha… I guess you’re like those feminists who think that (and have achieved) banning men’s groups from college campuses is not sexist…. or worse, you probably believe misandry doesn’t exist like so many feminists….. ah well, pity about ya…
I’d say most misandry is a reaction to misogyny.
“or worse, you probably believe misandry doesn’t exist like so many feminists”
Didn’t you say the patriarchy doesn’t exist? It’s interesting how you’re ‘not all men’ stance completely contradicts your ‘definitely all feminists’ line. Well….I say “intersting”….
*your. Jayzus.
‘definitely’ ….you’re making stuff up now Ted :)
So…. No.
No contradiction, thanks.
“For once I agree with you Anne – this could be the start of something special- well said!”
lol You’re an awful clown.. the only something special is yourself.
Wow, take it easy lady. Ever heard of a little thing called the Diet Coke ads? But are you going to complain about them? Oh yeah – thought not.
Ah, the diet coke ad.. there’s them chippendales too. It’s all balanced out shur.
and I wish you would stop going on about how sexy Mercille is, it’s demeaning to him after all his hard work in becoming an academic
He was collecting those tokens from the cornflakes boxes for weeks, WEEKS, mind.
BINGO!
Maltese ads and the “bulge” comments, and the binoculars hinting at a small willy….
Buy no, it’s not sexism, and even airs in daytime TV…. but I’m just a crackpot for mentioning itbecauseim a privileged man or some sh*te
Me hoop!
Maltesers stripper ad, that is
You just had that little debate and dismissed it all in one post… has anyone else ever actually told you they weren’t sexist?
Sarcasm Dan, sarcasm, good lad.
That’s even more confusing tbh.
Those ads are sexist, taken on their own you could make any of the arguments that apply to similar portrayals of women, and you’d be right.
But the don’t exist on their own, they’re a tiny percentage of the huge range of ways men are portrayed in media. The range for women is far far smaller.
That seems like a purely factual analysis of the start of affairs, and a straight forward explanation of why male repentant ion is less of an issue, males actually are far better represented.
Because of your sarcasm I can’t tell if I’m explaining this to someone who agrees with me, or someone e who actually doesn’t know this.
So your arguments about misandry are insincere?
I’ll break it down and mansplain it, will i? Or will I just do a normal explanation to clarify the confusion? I’ll go with the latter.
This bit is an example of sexism that goes unnoticed because men no better than to complain, or can’t be arsed with the hassle it brings up – “Maltesers ads and the “bulge” comments, and the binoculars hinting at a small willy….”
This bit is called sarcasm – “But no, it’s not sexism, and even airs in daytime TV…. but I’m just a crackpot for mentioning it because i’m a privileged man or some sh*te”
This is the science bit – “Me hoop!”
Hope that clears it up.
*know …not ‘no’.
Stupid man.
But you did bring it up. And in a very particular way. As if such claims of sexism somehow counteract sexism against females? Or balances them? Or disproves them? If the only time you bring them up is in opposition to claims of misogyny and couched in scathing sarcasm, well, even if people agree with you that they’re sexist they’re not going to think you’re presenting them in good faith.
Actually no, that’s not clear at all. I still can’t tell if you agreed with what I said or didn’t. Which makes me think you aren’t willing to follow your own thoughts to their conclusion.
Either you agree that the ads are sexist, but don’t have the same power, because of the social context they exist in, in which case there’s no reason to bring them up here, certainly not as counter examples. Or you think they’re as bad, which seems false to me, but still doesn’t make them counter examples. Or you think that the sexist-aimed-at-males ones are worse which seems ludicrous, but would make them counter examples. Or you just think the whole thing isn’t worth thinking about, but you obviously are thinking about it.
They seem like pretty clear choices I honestly can’t tell which you’re going for tho.
The ads are as bad as each other – Maltesers v Diet Coke. None are more sexist than the other, both are sexist.
I agree.
@Nigel… It was a follow up to Anne’s ‘diet coke’ comment, not brought up… it’s a big thread wha.
@Campers I see you left out the context part, that part seem unreasonable to you?
Imagine if we had a men only mini marathon in Dublin city centre, now you see the more obvious sexism in this case. They could raise an awful lot more money if they stopped this idiotic idea of limiting it to one sex.
It’s horrific, absolutely blatantent sexism. Truly only an idiot would have come up with an idea of enticing just ordinary ladies to participate in sport by creating a run exclusive to their sex, do they not realise that that is the definition of SEXIST? It is actually the earliest recorded mobile “safe space” in Ireland and deserves nothing but contempt.
Not to mention it is not even a marathon, it should not be using that word. It is demeaning to the many MEN and yes also women who actually run full marathons.
http://a.fastcompany.net/multisite_files/fastcompany/imagecache/1280/poster/2015/04/3045122-poster-p-1-four-rule-breaking-lessons-from-the-first-woman-to-run-the-boston-marathon.jpg
Lol Christina,stop being so easily triggered.
‘VHI Women’s Mini Marathon’ – the title of the event manages to be patronising to women, athletes, and women athletes in particular.
Next year they’re changing it to ‘VHI Mini Women’s Marathon’
For tiny women only. Rob is going to lose his mind over that
Quite.
It’s a pity, really, as athletics is one of the most egalitarian of sports when it comes to gender. Men and women are both part of the same association, train together, and the race meetings are for both sexes (events such as the mini-marathon notwithstanding).
If we get some of those magic Alice in Wonderland shrinking cakes we’ll be sorted.
VH1’s Top 100 Mini Woman’s Marathon Participants
Roll up, roll up for the “10k Lite”, it’s really only 5k but we want you to feel you’ve ran further by our marketing strategy… :)
Is that you Rosanna?
:-)
I like a bit of feminism as much as the next man but I think the columnist is being a bit over-sensitive and that women have empowered themselves enough to laugh this off as a bit of ‘Father Ted’ – or ‘Bridget & Eamon’ type Irish self deprecation.
Do you read her as being outraged or exasperated? I read this as being a bit wtf lads? And seriously how hard would it be to NOT use potentially demeaning language? Not very hard at all imo.
Off track but I just don’t get the immersion thing. If I leave it on I just shrug because it has a thermostat which will switch it off once the tank reaches a certain heat. And it has an outlet if that doesn’t work so what’s the problem?
It’s a bit like people who say it was so cold last night so I had to put the heating on. If you have a temperature gauge set at say 18 degrees Celsius, it is more cost effective to just leave it on all the time as the house doesn’t need warmed up then.
THE IMMERSION AAAATES ELECTRIICITY.
It’s the bill shock you’re trying to avoid!
It’s far from thermostats you were reared.
Indeed
the ten penny meter was considered posh one time
Dude – never just leave the temp on all the time! It ends up costing more.
I;m not sure you deserve a thermostat with the way you’re treating it…
Depends on which thermostat you are talking about?
All immersions have and do come with a thermostat otherwise the tank would blow up. It is a safety feature which I expect is law. They stitch off around 97 degrees Celsius and with a properly insulated tank rarely switch back on for the rest of the day. The real cost is the lack of good quality insulation, which is very common.
As for heating, leaving it on at a lower temperature was recommended to me by a heating engineer so unless you know better than him.
Weird how a topic on women’s rights (or not) turns into electrical engineering but anyways.
I love a tangent!
I’ve spent a lot of time recently on heating websites (don’t ask, stressful) and most engineers there and the 2 who I’ve been working with say never leave your heating on all the time. It’s more expensive to do so then it have it come on at set times which are easier enough to do. Also, mega wasteful and bad for the environment and a house shouldn’t take long to heat up anyway with good insulation.
Immersions are another thing that I cannot advise on having standad gas hot water
Depends in fact on the insulation and air tightness of the place, energy storage strategy and then the thermostat and boiler/pump settings. They sound like electrical or civil engineers not experts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FONN-0uoTHI
Ah for Christ sake
Lighten up
I’d say the likes of Ms Cleary look for stuff to get offended with
give over
Ms Cleary has to fill blank space in the Irish Times. Go easy on her.
What should she do instead? Bottle up all that rage, till she can’t take it anymore and let loose on someone while talking about ‘amped up indignation’..hmmm.
Accuse them of wearing skinny jeans and being all round better looking, having completed more exams, being more qualified for the job.
Lighten up indeed… I wonder who’ll be subject to your next sh*t fit?*
*(ducks for cover)
And just to let you know, this thread had 165 comments.. You’re not supposed to comment on threads that have more than what was it? A dozen comments.. I forget, coz I couldn’t give a fiddlers like that about where you comment.. *
*(ducks for cover, again)
And that was the day badatmemes ate Anne
Is it not sexist that the marathon was just for women?
Why were men discriminated against from joining?
Ladies are so sensitive these days.
It’s certainly an artifact of living in a sexist world, yes.
How many wrongs does it take to make a right then? Peace and reconciliation, the only way forward.
When men sign the agreement stop harassing women on the street and the internet and the workplace and anyplace then we can move forward and decommission Pepsi Cola ads and put women’s marathons beyond use.
>_<
Well, if we are going to really respect this topic, I think broadsheet should look to its own house first. Broadsheet? Broad-sheet? We all know that ‘Broad’ is a disrespectful reference to a woman.
Henceforth, you should call yourself Personsheet.
Reading some of these comments would suck the life out of you… as a woman of many years experience I can’t find fault with either of the official slogans – anyone could be worried about the immersion or pleased to hear their presence makes the place look good so I don’t see how they are sexist but I do agree with her on the shouted comment and that would have annoyed me too
So I don’t agree, but also I do agree.
Well done on condensing what she said but also adding a some sneering tone to it.
It’s just a compliment. What exactly is wrong with a compliment? Saying you make the place look good is just another compliement. What is sexist about getting compliments about your appearance? No matter what you’re doing, in every scenario, another compliment on how you look winging its way to you. That’s the real privilege, and women are too blind to see it.
What is the official distance of a mini marathon and why isn’t it in the olympics?
Its humour. And harmless. Grow a pair.
of testicles? That’s a pretty extreme solution.
At least then we wouldn’t have to put up with this nonsense all the time
I think you’ll find that when women criticise humour everything stops being funny until she is hunted down and humiliated and made to apologise and fake laugh at your jokes, it’s just that important that nobody criticise your humour.
I love the extremity of your description
I love that you think it’s extreme.
“hunted down” …no, not extreme. Happens every day, women, loads of them being hunted down across Dublin city after comedy clubs every nite. (may as well go for the full hunt and trophy)
How endearingly literal of you.
The ultimate in first world problems.
Oh well then, why bother talking about it? I mean, it appears to be the most commented topic today and that’s 95% men going I DON’T THINK THIS IS SEXISTS SO SHUT UP SO-CALLED “LADIES” ALSO I WANT TO BE IN WOMAN MARATHOM – Y NO MEN? MALTEASERS AND DIET COKE TOO. BUT YOU DON’T SEE ME COMPLAINING WHY CAN’T MEN RAISE MONEY FOR CHARITY? STUPID TOUCHY WOMEN.
temptation to make oh so obvious joke overwhelming….
Honestly there’s a desperate shortage of comments having a go at her for criticisng the banners and the remarks so don’t hold back, let her have it or civilisation will crumble.
I always thought broadsheet was majority female….. http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/www.broadsheet.ie
How are those stats measured clampers?
Bots
I’ve looked at few others over the years… Compete, Quantcast, Google Display Network/placements and a few others and women are always a majority on Broadsheet… or so these industry standard statistical sites suggest…
Huh, interesting. That’s readers right? I’d say majority of commenters are men though, maybe 10-15 women?
Fair point, it doesn’t differentiate the comments.
Noted, and thanks :)
“Fair point, it doesn’t differentiate the comments..”
You should try an avatar with a red dress. The misogynists are like flies to sh*te on you then.. You’ll be a feminist in no time.
You accuse people of misogyny for disagreeing with you “Anne”, I wouldn’t count you as a good barometer when it’s so easy to disagree with your comments
Speak of the devil…
Hi “Harold.”
HA! Christ. You’re unreal.
How can bots identify your gender or educational status?
Bots collect info, on things like, estimations of surfing behaviour and a bunch of other stuff ‘under the hood’. As well as other maths things and algorithms, that as a non IT type, I wouldn’t pretend to understand the intricacies of :)
in the comments section she unsheathes this gem:
‘Thanks for your feedback. Interestingly enough, the word ‘banter’ seems to be used as an umbrella for bullying in other contexts. You often hear it among groups of young men in particular, who will ‘slag each off’ in the name of ‘banter’; in fact, it can be an indirect form of bullying.’
in the article she calls the guy a ‘troglodyte’.
i’d love to ask her if it was her gay best friend delivering the slogans in a fun/camp way does it suddenly become acceptable? some of these girls are all over the place atm
Oh yeah, aren’t girls just the worst. Like, I mean, I think I met a few one time and they all didn’t think exactly the same about some stuff. It was embarrassing for them.I think you should just stop talking to them until they collectively get their act together. That’ll focus their bird brains.
A vivid imagination on ‘banter’. Is this the first time this person has been in public places with other people in them…..
If you’ve never encountered banter as a cover or excuse for bullying your experience has been more sheltered than hers.
The sentence part quoted below doesn’t actually say ANYTHING :). It’s not a debate. It’s full of words loaded with subjective meaning. It’s pure unadulterated gossipy nonsense.
….who will ‘slag each off’ in the name of ‘banter’; in fact, it can be an indirect form of bullying.’
Don’t go full Tony where you refuse to comprehend fairly clear meanings even if the composition is rough.
Sorry Nigel, not my fault if you don’t understand how excessively emotive language kills debate.
FYI – http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#emotive
Well, actually, thank you for schooling me on how that works. Dismissing perfectly clear and entirely reasonable comments as ’emotional’ kills debate too, you know. People do it a lot, mostly, but by no means always, to women. I tend to lose respect for those people.
Your question is basically “does context matter?” The answer is yes.
God. You’re all awful. Just…awful. Every one of you.
Ha! Post of the year.
And agreed.
This.
YOU iron my shirt, then.
Easy for someone who still lives with their mother to say
E-heh-hexcellent.
I’ve seen this slogan on other races throughout Ireland including the Dublin City Marathon along with ‘Run like you stole it’ and other such banter filled slogans.
I take it nobody has ever left the immersion on in her house…
Oh….my….God!
/woman objects to being stereotyped in a sexist manner
/shut up stupid woman
/not sexist
Careful Dan, someone will call you a Princess
It’s cool, I have a large beard to confuse them with.
Well us Queens used to have beards but it is all clean shaving last few seasons?
I used to be clean shaven, but then I got lazy :P
+1 Pretty much the only reason I have one. That and how handsome it makes me, natch. Sorry, I mean *more* handsome.
Mr Andy has a beard. Me.
BOOM!
Is it ok that I assumed you man Don, and I use the word Princess in a patronising manner, as I often do, for someone who is a bid delicate?
Of course, princess, its entirely up for you to your interpretation. And as we now know, if you interpret something wrong, its wrong.
Using female nouns as some kind of derogatory statement about a man’s masculinity? Well, I wonder what could possibly be sexist about that – to both genders!
Jesus, get a life.
Using condescending feminine terms in a derogatory manner to denote delicacy in a thread about everyday sexism – WINNAH!
Don’t forget “I’m a feminist but…”
Aaaaand … feminism takes another huge leap backwards.
And even if it didn’t there’s plenty lining up to give it a push.
Wahey!
nothing worse than hacky immersion jokes from des humourless bishop and the like
Well I’m sure glad I avoided that. Obvs I’m totes for les fems. As for the immersion comment, I agree that it’s stereotypical to aim this at women only. Men should also be worried if it’s left on because they’ll probably be paying the bills in fairness. See! It DOES worth both ways. Now that’s equality.
As funny as a train crash Tony but then you knew that already. b minus for you today son.
I think you like me? You hang off me like a winters snot.
Ah here now…That immersion slogan on the N11 bridge brought a smile to my face given I was in a jock, there was a serious lack of water stations on the route and it was ridiculously warm. These slogans have been up on the bridge for a few years and no-one’s taken umbridge with them.
On the other hand, Christina doesn’t mention anything about the hundreds of women who knocked off three kilometres from the run by going under the plastic barriers at RTE…surely that’s worse!
Sexist and racist.
I wonder what Jane Ruffino thinks?
“Is E=Mc² a sexed equation? Perhaps it is. Let us make the hypothesis that it is insofar as it privileges the speed of light over other speeds that are vitally necessary to us. What seems to me to indicate the possible sexed nature of the equation is not directly its uses by nuclear weapons, rather it is having privileged that which goes faster.”
Luce Irigaray, PhD Feminist Philosopher
Yeah.. well… like…. whatever….. * brushes hair back, then combs beard with finger tips… slowly…. for some unknown reason *
Oh
Look at me everybody!
Some “Intellectual” had an opinion I disagreed with
Must sneer harder
I’m glad you used quotes. There’s hope after all.
Which proves what exactly Clampers? That philosophers gonna philosophise?
#notallmen but totally #allfeminists right?
Why is anybody allowed to think about anything or write about anything or speculate about anything that I don’t agree with? Why do I have to obsessively seek out things that the so-called “ladies” say that I might disagree with (almost everything they say, right lads?! har har)? It’s obviously so that I can prove – again! – that the female brain, when not under the proper control of a man, come up with stupid things.
Women should be regulated for their own safety and the safety of society.
Hush, now, pet. You’re getting yourself into an awful dither.
Here, let me use a vibrator to calm you down.
OK. I’ll have a couple of Valium while I’m at it as well.
The real sexism is calling this a “mini-marathon”. It’s a 10k.
Wow, serious thin skinned moron.
– The immersion is a brilliant sign. Truely irish and in no way gender specific. I turned on and off the immersion in my family home for 15 years. I’m male.
– “Looking good”. I’ve shouted that to runners at dozens of road races. It’s not about someones looks. It’s to tell people they don’t look like they’re struggling. It’s positive reinforcement e.g. “you got this”, “no problem for you”. I’ve been panting like a smoker, paints falling down with the amount of sweet, shirtless and lads (yes males) have shouted that exact line to me near finish lines.
– The N11 looking so good? That’s neither here nor there. The intention I’m sure was positive encouragement. They close the avenue near me for 3 saturday mornings each summer and everyone is allowed run on it – The avenue never looks as good as when its full of runners, cyclists, skaters, walkers etc rather than taxis, cars and bin lorries.
I get the impression this is a case of someone who’d get the bus across the city and walk 5 miles to take offence.
Andy
Yeah but the lads taking offence at her offence are being flown in from all over the place. They’re driving up in droves, they’re hiking over mountains, swimming broad seas, tunneling through the earth to gang up and red-faced with rage roar en-mass at her – ‘THIN SKINNED!’