More Airbnbs Than Rental Units

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Taoiseach Enda Kenny in the Dáil yesterday

Yesterday.

In the Dáil.

Sinn Féin TD Eoin Ó Broin asked the Taoiseach Enda Kenny about the regulation of properties on Airbnb in Dublin.

They had the following exchange…

Eoin Ó Broin: “As the Taoiseach knows the November homeless figures showed, yet again, a further rise in the number of people living in emergency accommodation, with 6,985 people in such accommodation, including 2,549 children. ”

“In addition to the lack of supply of social housing, the lack of adequate private rental accommodation is feeding this crisis.”

Today in Dublin there are only 1,564 properties available for rent but there are 6,225 units listed on Airbnb. The Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy [Simon] Coveney, gave a commitment in October to introduce secondary legislation to properly regulate this sector to ensure that only properties adequate for the purposes of Airbnb would be considered and the rest would require planning permission. When will this secondary legislation be published and will the Opposition be consulted on its contents?”

Enda Kenny: “We have been through this at some considerable length over the past period of time. The action plan allows for the building of 1,500 rapid-build units and 1,600 vacant units have been sourced by the Housing Agency.”

“The expanded HAP scheme for homeless tenancies reached 550 in 2016 and will reach 1,200 in 2017. The plan also includes a 40% increase in homeless funding from €70million to €98 million in 2017. This year there will be a spend of €1.2 billion on social housing.”

“I will ask the Minister to give Deputy Ó Broin more accurate details and a date on which he expects the legislation to be published. I would point out that 200 extra beds have been provided at Ellis Quay, Little Britain Street, Carman’s Hall and Wolf Tone Quay.”

Meanwhile…

Further to this…

Yesterday evening, Mr Ó Broin released a statement, in which he said:

“In Dublin there are currently 6,225 Airbnb listings. According to data available on Inside Airbnb 2,847 or 45.4% of these listings are for entire homes and apartments. Furthermore 44.5% of the hosts have multiple listings which can indicate that it’s more likely they are running a business.

“Today, according to Daft.ie there are only 1,564 properties available to rent in the capital. With the homeless figures for November showing that 6,985 people were accessing emergency accommodation, including 2549 children, we need to ensure we are looking at every option possible to make more housing stock available.

“Back in October 2016, when An Bord Pleanála upheld a ruling that a property owner in Temple Bar required planning permission to continue renting the property out for short-term lets, Minister Coveney backed this ruling. In December, when the issue was raised in the Seanad, the Minister stated that efforts were underway to clamp down on this activity and that a change in the planning treatment was a good way to deal with it.

“Today I asked the Taoiseach to detail when the secondary legislation promised to deal with this issue will be published. Unfortunately he couldn’t give me an answer but I will be writing to Minister Coveney asking him to provide the information requested and to ask if the opposition parties will have an opportunity to have some input on the development of the regulations.

“Sinn Féin is not against the principle of Airbnb as it was originally designed however it is my view that renting out a room in your home is entirely different to renting out your entire property. If the latter is the case then you need planning permission to change the property from residential use to commercial use. While we will assess the Minister’s regulations when they are published, we believe that a maximum of six weeks rental per year is reasonable. If you are providing a commercial accommodation service then standard B&B permissions should apply.”

Transcript via Oireachtas.ie

62 thoughts on “More Airbnbs Than Rental Units

  1. Anomanomanom

    Taking the homeless part out of equations for a minute, what is wrong with people renting their property. So you don’t have planning permission so its not “suitable”, then you get permission and its suitable. Where is the logic in that.

    1. backomebollix

      It has an effect on the overall housing stock and effects rents if its not controlled. There also has a cost to communities – if half the houses on a particular street are short term let, what kind of a place does that become to live for the permanent residents? If half the streets in an area are like that, what kind of community is it? Not everyone who applies for permission will get it, that’s the point.

      1. Anomanomanom

        Im not talking about the community effect, Im talking about the pure logical reason of this piece of permission says yes so your fine, yet a few days ago if you had no permission it was not fine. Why not just say how it is “its bad for the rent market, community so on so on” and work off that.

        1. Anne

          What sort of gibberish is that, “why not just say it’s bad for the community etc. etc.”? That’s what the local authority will ‘say’ when planning permission isn’t granted.

          1. Anomanomanom

            But the logic behind needing planning permission when its not actually needed because well your not planning to do anything to your property is ridiculous. Lets be totally honest, its a simple case of irish begrudgery at some one making money.

          2. Anne

            It is actually needed and they are actually doing something with their property.

            I could set up a b n b with your logic and well fupp the neighbours I’m just making money..likewise a doctor’s surgery or dental practise in a residential area coz like I’m not doing anything different to the building and fupp everyone else I’m just making money.

            We’re not living in the wild west anymore last time I checked. It’s not a free for all for anyone to do whatever they want with their property coz there’s a few bucks to be made. Cop on.

          3. Anomanomanom

            Explain in your oh so great logically wisdom how turning your house in to a doctors office, I assume you’d be buying everything you normally get in a docs office, is the same thing as renting out a room or apartment on bnb. Its not is it, back in your box.

          4. Anne

            Commercial activities need planning permission. B n B on a permanent basis is a commercial activity. Communities need planning. It’s not the wild west. Stop acting dumb.

      2. Cian

        Should planning permission be required for normal renting too? if half the houses on a street are ‘long-term’ let (i.e. the standard 12 months), what kind of a place does that become to live for the permanent residents?

        1. Anne

          I don’t know, you tell me.
          What kind of place does that become for the permanent residents?

          Nothing is given any oversight it seems.

        2. backomebollix

          it’s fine, i live on a street like that. The one house on the street that has people in it for a weekend at a time has become a blank space, a black hole. It can’t go on unabated.

  2. Starina

    airbnb are a pestilence on urban living and the cost of rents. they’ve already devoured San Francisco, Dublin is going the same way.

  3. DubLoony

    Misleading headline.
    2,847 places are available on airbnb as whole apartment or house.

    The others are a room in someones house.
    If they are let out on a whole time basis then planning permission is needed for change from residential to business premises.

    I know one couple who split up, both renting elsewhere now. Apartment is in negative equity and airbnb is the only way they could cover their mortgage on it. If rented out, they couldn’t affod it. If they sell, the will be left with huge pile of debt and are snookered no matter what they do.
    A one year bankruptcy might not be such a bad idea for them to start over.

      1. Vote Rep #1

        That still might be homes at the moment. My neighbours do a few weekends each year. They just visit family down the country when they have people in. The few weekends that they do pays for a holiday for the family. People like this are probably in the minority now though.

        1. Cian

          And this is what I always assumed Air BnB was set up to do – to allow you to rent out your place for a few times a year.

    1. Anne

      Are you having a laugh Dublooney? Airbnb is the only way they can cover their mortgage? At the current rents? What is it a penthouse apartment in Trump Towers?

      I’d say what they’re getting from airbnb is covering the mortgage and both of their their rents in each of their new accommodation.

      You’re great for coming up with these exceptional situations that shouldn’t need to be factored in at all in the scheme of things.
      (like how you mentioned emigrants returning home as a reason not to give better tenancy rights)

      If I had an apartment that I could make a ton of money from I’d be tempted to do the same. Who wouldn’t? That’s why we need policies to stop it..I don’t give a poo about your couple friend turning an apartment into a hotel. It must be lovely for the other permanent residents there too no doubt to see guests from the 4 corners of the earth breezing through all the time.

      1. dan

        Anne, “If I had an apartment that I could make a ton of money from “. really? 51% of your taxable income is swallowed up in taxation. Add to that management fees, repairs, insurance and RTB registration.

        Example:
        €1400 rent per month
        €900 mortgage
        €120 management fees
        €100 repairs, insurance, property tax
        Tax due: €450
        Net income: €170 shortfall.

        1. Anne

          Wrong. Like everyone else you hit the high tax based on your earnings.

          You listed all tax deductible expenses there too. As is 80% of the mortgage interest .

          https://www.taxback.com/blog/irish-landlord-expenses

          Generally speaking, you’ll pay either 20% or 40% tax on your net rental income, depending on your personal circumstances (marital status, how much you’re charging tenants, whether you have other forms of income, etc)

          So as you can see, generally speaking the list of things you are able to claim back as expenses is reasonably comprehensive..

          1. dan

            Wrong Anne, very wrong.. The figures are based on your false assumptions, I assume you have a job therefore you will pay tax @ the higher rate once you earn more than €42,800 for a married couple which equates to a salary of 26,000.
            Also, 80% of mortgage interest based on a mortgage of €900 is €400, give or take a few euro therefore my estimate of €450 tax is correct.
            As for the “reasonably comprehensive” list of tax deductions I’ve included them all with the exception of those that are worth maybe €200 a year (accountant, advertising) and also if these are being claimed the landlord has to pay for them first which will further reduce his net income. Bin charges are usually included in management fees or paid for by the tenant.

            Like or loathe them landlords provide a service than no-one else does.

          2. Anne

            Not wrong Anne,Very Wrong. Right Anne, very right.

            You assumed people have other earnings. If that’s the case, like everyone else who has an income, you pay either the standard rate of tax or the higher rate depending on the amount.

            As for the expenses. You listed them Dan. They’re deductible from the gross tax liability. So you’re not left with a shortfall, you spoofer.

            I’ll tell you what though,I don’t give a tuppenny fupp about your mortgage payments. What the likes of you and the rest of the gougers around the country are looking for, is for someone else – (tenants that can’t get on the property ladder because of too many incentives given to landlords exploiting the need people have for a roof over their heads) to pay for the cost in full of a valuable asset. You want tenants to cover your mortgage, your fees, your advertising, your taxes.

            Your shortfall figure is bullpoo..but even if we were to believe it, what’s wrong with contributing 170 a month towards what will be a valuable asset when the mortgage is paid off by your tenants. I have to pay something towards my pension..you want someone else to pay in full for what’s effectively your pension.

            It’d be akin to expecting my full mortgage payments to be taken off my PAYE tax liability and contributing nothing tax wise. That’s what ye want.

            Valuable service my hoop. Exploiters and whingers is what ye are.

        2. Lorcan

          How many of the 2,847 entire home/apartment listings on Airbnb are let for more than 6 weeks of the year?

          1. Lorcan

            Actually, Inside Airbnb has an estimate which goes some way to answering my question:

            Half (1,405) of the entire home/apartment listings on Airbnb are let for more than 90 days (13 weeks) of the year.

            http://insideairbnb.com/dublin/?neighbourhood=&filterEntireHomes=true&filterHighlyAvailable=false&filterRecentReviews=true&filterMultiListings=false

            So I’d guess that almost all of the 2,847 entire home/apartment listings are let for more than 6 weeks of the year. This means a lot of private landlords will be affected by Minister Coveney’s legislation…

  4. PuntNua

    This government’s strategy is to turn everyone else into a pariah rather than dealing with the issue at hand.

    Smoke and mirrors.

    1. Rob_G

      True.

      If they just built more bloody homes, it would hardly matter a damn if a few thousand of the housing stock was used for holiday accommodation instead.

  5. rotide

    I had no idea that was the ratio, that’s insane.

    Even with Dubloony’s helpful clarification, the number still far outstrips the rental number.

    No wonder we are where we are.

  6. nellyb

    “only properties adequate for the purposes of Airbnb” – isn’t assessment of adequacy in Airbnb customers’ hands? voting with money type of thing? or is it just poorly worded sentence, therefore misleading?

    1. Anne

      Like a type of a like thing? We should replace planning laws with likes..the more likes you get, It’s deemed suitable. Fupp the planning laws. Likes are where it’s at.

      1. nellyb

        :-) Before Airbnb had become a household name it was a first point of call for students and people with budget constrains. It was perfect for slim pockets. How would our planning board assess what is adequate for a Greek student on part time wage? If politicians aren’t able to concisely articulate the purpose of planning law in discussions – what kind of law, do you think, we’ll get in the end?

      2. Anomanomanom

        Are high or something, seriously. How the hell are getting that from the post you commented on. Planning law would have bern used in the first place to build it, so if its a safety concern you have then don’t worry. Or is it just that you have a problem with people renting out their own property.

          1. Anne

            Fat fingers or not you’re making little sense. How did I get what?
            Hey diddle diddle stop talking in riddles.

            Your man in Temple Bar obviously felt the same as you but alas he was WRONG. Original planning for a building doesn’t cover change of use.

            Running a B n B needs planning permission. Simple.

          2. Anomanomanom

            I know it needs it, but what iv asked repeatedly is what logic is used to say you need planning permission. That law is ridiculously, how is it ok if you get it, but the day, hour, minute before its not ok. Regardless if its going to be use to stop people renting it, its a bit ridiculous.

          3. Anne

            Oh jesus. When legislation is brought in, you adhere to it..prior to the legislation it doesn’t logically mean it was once ok and now it’s illogical because it was once ok.

            You’re giving me a headache. I can’t cope with this level of stupidity. Stop.

        1. Taanbuaagam

          Animositymom – You’re a total moron and it’s embarrassing.

          What part of you must apply for change of use do you not understand? And then you just keep going making a bigger and bigger fool of yourself.
          Like a drunk lady who starts a fight or ignores you when no one will buy her a drink any more.

  7. fmong

    Yeah but global tech multinational Air Bn’B are busy pumping money into developing their nice cheaply taxed HQ on that last shitty bit of Grand Canal Dock at the end, the run down warehouses where the travellers keep setting up.. the bit no one goes too.. do we think The Government really slapping them on the wrist right outside their door step? You think that’s likely No, me neither..

  8. Eric

    Glad to see this issue is being pursued, although not by the government evidently.
    I live in an apartment down in the IFSC and we had awful trouble with the apartments immediately above and below us being let out on AirBnb or similar websites up until the end of October. You end up with a constant stream of randomers coming and going at all hours of the night, who don’t give a shit about noise or being courteous. Your development essentially turns into an unstaffed hotel and you end up having to confront total strangers in the middle of the night asking them to show some basic manners and keep the noise down.

    Eventually, after multiple people complained, our property management agency stepped in and banned short-term lets outright, as they established that such lets violated planning permission, multiple covenants in the head-lease and the general house-rules of the development. They also felt that short-term lets disrupted the quality of life for residents and represented a threat to the resale value of properties that were adjacent to those being let out.

    A lot of people love chiming in with statements like “it’s my property I should be able to let it if I want” or saying that people have a problem with AirBnB due to begrudgery, like they have some god-given right to do whatever they like with their property, but it just ain’t so. Planning laws exist for this very reason.
    I’m sure there are plenty of houses/apartments that are let out on AirBnB without consequence, but the only evidence I could see was that it is used rather cynically to extract as much cash out of an asset as possible, without any regard whatsoever to the community that it is located within.

    1. dan

      So Eric your problem is not Airbnb but the lack of legislation and resources to deal with nuisance tenants, be they short or long term lets.
      How does your management company deal with long term nuisance tenants? not al all I reckon.

      1. Anomanomanom

        I actually agree with dans point, especially if the people above are a hassle, iv been there it actually ruins your own living standards in your apartment, but its the laws that deal with this that are the problem and if the management company are any good at dealing with the problem. Mine was useless so I had to go down other routes. But should my bad experience stop some one else being allowed rent their property?

      2. Anne

        His problem is Air B n B and half of apartment blocks being used like hotels.

        It’s not fair to the people living there, you money grabbing gouger.

  9. DT

    Whether it’s intentional or not, same error of interpretation and analysis being repeated every time this issue is raised.

    ““Today in Dublin there are only 1,564 properties available for rent but there are 6,225 units listed on Airbnb.”

    That’s not true as it’s not comparing like with like. You either compare:

    – the entire stock of apartments within the private rental sector V the entire stock of apartments listed on Airbnb (which is more than 100,000 in Dublin City alone V around 2,000 on Airbnb [Dublin City, not surrounds])

    OR

    – the entire stock of VACANT apartments within the private rented sector V the entire stock of VACANT apartments listed on Airbnb (which is around 1,500 Versus 74 – right now (as in tonight, January 18), there are 74 apartments available to rent on Airbnb, while right now there are just over 1500 apartments/houses available to rent on Daft)

    So around 2% of dwellings in Dublin that are not owner-occupied are listed on Airbnb. If every one of these was brought back into the market tomorrow, it would have minimal impact, hardly any, in fact)

    1. Anne

      Eh NO.

      You would want to see how many apartments would be available, if they were NOT using Air B N B, ergo you wouldn’t look at only what’s currently vacant on Air B n B.

      Shur everything could all be taken up at any particular point in time in Dublin on AirBnb, if we had some event on. Then you’d be saying 0% of dwellings in Dublin that are not owner-occupied are listed on AirBnb.

      1. DT

        Sorry, didn’t explain myself so well there.

        Forget the first half of that anyway. It’s still the case that less than 2% of Dublin City’s rental stock is on Airbnb rather than within the private residential rental market. Banning Airbnb isn’t going to fix the dire housing crisis in Dublin. It’s a complete red herring. We need to build around 50,000 residential units within easy commuting distance of the city. That’s the only real solution.

        [My previous point about the disingenuous presentation of data is that comparing 1,500 on Daft to 6,500 on Airbnb (or whatever the actual figures are…these are rough guesses off the top of my head) makes it look like Airbnb is hogging around 70% of the available apartments in Dublin, which obviously isn’t the case].

        1. 15p

          i live on my own, and i let out my place on air bnb to help with rent. on my street of little cottages loads of others do that too. so id imagine a large amount of the 6500 are in the same boat as us. so why do people think we are hogging up space? we live there! if we could we’d never let it out, but rent is insanely high so we have to. it seems like people have gotten so overly PC that they just want people to now leave their homes and hand them over to the homeless.

  10. steve white

    its about how long they do it not how much of the home is used, AirBnb are beginning to be strict are restricting its to 90s days, they should bring that in here too.

  11. Djin Genie

    AirBnB don’t even require a full address for the property being advertised: you can sign up online, give the general area or street and and away you go. The paper trail is inadequate and the system ripe for abuse even if legislation changes.

  12. Kieran NYC

    If SF wanted to deal with this in the morning, they could.

    The government is a minority government. Propose your own legislation to deal with it, get a majority of TDs to vote for it and you’re done.

    What’s SF’s AirBnB policy up North I wonder?

  13. 15p

    i live on my own, in a one bed cottage. my rent is v high so i let it out on air bnb a few weekends a month. as do many other people on my street. without doing that we wouldnt meet our rent. then i read things like this, and i think ‘what do you want from me?’ .. do u want me to take my place off air bnb, move home, and give my place to homeless people?’

    Trying to make up your rent by renting your gaff out to strangers isnt ideal, but something a lot of us have to do because of the state of the rental market. we are not the cause of homelessness, we’ll be joining them on the streets if you shut down air bnb for us. air bnb is not the problem.

    1. 15p

      like this article states there are 6000+ air bnb ‘units’ up for rent. ignoring that many people LIVE in these units. im all for helping homeless people, but its going too far if ya want people to get out of their houses to make way for them.

  14. Auzworld

    Do you realize that nearly all airbnb lettings will NOT be able to get this planning permission as they live in Residential areas. …. zoning people

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