Cometh The Man

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From top: UK Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn; Dan Boyle

It didn’t seem possible, at first, but the British General Election has gotten very interesting indeed. Let me give praise where it’s due, Jeremy Corbyn has had a very good campaign. A campaign in which every most likely option still sees him winning.

It has been the little things that have seen him succeed. Someone has got to him, and has made him understand, the importance of the superficial in politics.

That’s something, as a conviction politician, he seems to have worked against his entire political life. The dark jacket has replaced the tweed. The beard is neatly trimmed. But it is his tone of voice that has been winning over many.

Again, and I know it’s also superficial, how you say something in politics is often more important than what you say. His calm authoritative tones are helping to overcome many of the negatives that have been foisted on to him.

He is being helped by the implosion of Theresa May, in being seen as a credible leader. She has come to be seen as lacking in strength, stability or reason, May is being exposed as being the opposite of what she and her party have portrayed herself as being. She, and they (the Tories) are exposing the entitled elitism that is at the heart of their rotten core.

Corbyn, and Labour, may also be gaining from incumbent negativity, which should be factored in most election situations these days. In every election there is reaction against whoever is in office or holds power. In recent times holding office has become more difficult to maintain. Anyone who comes up with a narrative that opposes the prevailing narrative, will gain electorally.

The British Labour Party manifesto pushes all the right buttons in this regard. It is refreshing that British voters have such a distinct choice between two clearly different political propositions.

I still have reservations about Corbyn. I’m with him that the issue of achieving social and economic equality, is the dominant issue of our times. I am with him that the security myth needs to be exposed, that the waste of billions, in whatever currency, towards the dubious goal of finding better ways of killing each other, is nothing other than obscene.

Where we diverge is his dogmatism, and that of his supporters, that wealth creating mechanisms are by their nature wrong. Too many progressives turn their backs on markets, seeing the realisation of profit as being crimes against the people.

We do, of course, need a debate as to what constitutes wealth. We should not, however, see the creation of wealth itself as a problem. It’s how wealth is distributed that must remain our central concern.

I would still prefer Corbyn over any Tory alternative. That alternative of only being interested in wealth creation for the sake of a privileged elite.

I continue to find it hard to forgive Corbyn for his languid performance during the Brexit referendum. Still I would prefer him over May, to be negotiating with the European Union.

When the results arrive I will still be looking first at the results of the Greens, who I think are also having a good campaign. I expect the SNP to still remain dominant in Scotland. Regarding the rest of the election I will be cheering with others. Go Jeremy Go!

Dan Boyle is a former Green Party TD and Senator. His column appears here every Thursdyay. Follow Dan on Twitter: @sendboyle

Top pic: Press Association

77 thoughts on “Cometh The Man

  1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    I don’t see much of Theresa May, me being in Australia, but she has never impressed me. She makes hollow and stupid statements. The one that stands out most is her repeating that Britain is united. It is obvious that it isn’t. A good leader would acknowledge that it is very divided but would outline how they would unite it. Of course, I hope the Tories get beaten. They deserve to be out of Government, for their arrogance.

      1. Lord Snowflakee

        I hate to cast aspersions or make assumptions about anonymous strangers online but I doubt either of you are the type of voters she is speaking directly to.

        1. mildred st. meadowlark

          Yes, there is that. She probably thinks I don’t need a vote, what with being a woman. And Irish. Among other things.

    1. Zena

      G’day mate, Australia must be an amazing place to live – would you ever consider coming home for good? A couple of my brothers spent time working out there, absolutely loved it.

  2. Brother Barnabas

    “A campaign in which every most likely option still sees him winning.”

    Daren’t dream. If Corbyn does become Prime Minister (which I sadly doubt will happen), it would have a profound impact on voting patterns here come the next election. We could even end up with a half-decent government – for once (sorry, Dan)

    1. ahjayzis

      I think he means anything less than a 50 seat majority for May and the decimation of ‘unelectable’ Labour would be seen as a massive failure on her part.

  3. Lord Snowflakee

    The bolding is so annoying

    The ‘implosion of May’ etc however is wishful thinking and the attitude to Corbyn the usual patrician waffle.

    Corybn was always a great candidate. He wouldn’t have made it to where he was, seeing off several concerted campaigns to oust him, even after he led a popular uprising within the Labour party itself, UNLESS he was a brilliant political force. And by brilliant, I just mean, slightly better than the other dopes who he slayed.

    Theresa May is an Enda Kenny type figure. She was handed a poisoned chalice in leading a Brexit/austerity three ring circus it was obvious she didn’t even care for herself. She will muddle through and then try to resume the process I suppose, perhaps even throw a few Brexiteers under the bus for the optics.

    1. Sheik Yahbouti

      I will be very sad when Noam shuffles off this mortal coil (as he inevitably must). His insight has been a comfort to me for many, many years.

      1. mildred st. meadowlark

        You ever seen ‘Is the Man who is Tall Happy?’, btw, Sheik?

        If you haven’t, I’d highly recommend, as a fellow Chompsky fan. It’s excellent.

  4. Shayna

    Great title by the way. Corbyn wasn’t going to attend, then he did. May always wasn’t and she didn’t. Interestingly billed as, ‘The Leaders Debate’ – there was an absence of an Irish accent on the show last night. 18 MPs in The North of Ireland have their jobs in jeopardy and not one was represented. It would appear the Irish voice matters little.

    1. ahjayzis

      The NI parties don’t compete with any UK parties. They’d have been debating themselves on stage and ignored by and ignoring the GB parties. NI is a distinct electoral area in every way.

      1. ivan

        Unless you’re banging on about Corbyn meeting a few Chuckies back in the 80s; then, and only then, is NI relevant to UK Politics

        1. Sheik Yahbouti

          Agreed, Ivan. Other than themselves, no-one has any interest in that ‘intrigueing statelet” Norn Iron,.

      2. Shayna

        Sure, I get that. However, the Unionists traditionally align themselves with The Tories, which proved useful back in the coalition days. It’s a tad frustrating to vote in The North – Sinn Féin don’t take their seats, The DUP and UUP are bigoted against Catholics, The SDLP have no credibility since John Hume retired, as for the rest, well, they’re not worth mentioning.
        Since March 2nd there has been no-one sitting in Stormont. Despite this, buses and trains run, when you press a switch on the wall, a light comes on. It does make one wonder – why bother voting?
        I’ll still vote next Thursday, otherwise I have no grounds to complain about the state of The Nation.

        1. bisted

          …you could vote for the Greens Shayna, the Greens…hasn’t Dan himself hugged every tree in South Belfast…you could then give Corbyn your No.2 like Dan has…

  5. Listrade

    It took me a long time to come around to Corbyn. This was mostly my fault. It was like the Smiths all over again where I ended up dismissing the Smiths because I hated the fans. Then about 10 years later I gave them a go and realised they were pretty good. I dismissed Corbyn, because I just couldn’t take to his supporters, especially not the more vocal who threw the “zionist” tag around.

    But he’s won me over. Maybe it’s circumstance and that he’s pretty much the only alternative, so I had to find something to cling to. But I never got that warm and fuzzy over Miliband.

    Not sure I agree with this line “A campaign in which every most likely option still sees him winning.” I still think the most likely “winning” scenario as a cut to the Tory majority. Maybe then there will be a more challenging opposition.

    This and a potential Corbyn victory looks to be solely dependent on the youth vote. Even then just the 18-24 range. Seems in the UK once you hit 25 your sympathies switch to Tory now. The biggest card he has is the NHS unfortunately he’s battling against a very coordinated right wing print media. It can’t be a coincidence that the Telegraph, Mail, Express and Sun all run similar anti-Corbyn front pages every day. He’s no hope of getting that message across to those readers and voters.

    I’m just not sure that there is enough of an issue to get the youth vote out. Pensions, Dementia tax, Winter fuel allowance…they won’t motivate the youth. And unfortunately I don’t think the youth are that concerned about the NHS aside from those who work in it. Nationalisation of rail and public transport is only an issue for those in big cities who always tend to lean left anyway.

    Its just too difficult to see a Corbyn win. But I still think that a reduce Tory majority is a victory. May called this election with the intention of crushing Labour out of existence. On that it looks like she might have made a major error.

    1. bertie "The Inexplicable Pleasure" blenkinsop

      Sorry Listrade, I usually like your stuff but if you only think The Smiths are “pretty good” we’re headed for a falling out.

          1. bertie "The Inexplicable Pleasure" blenkinsop

            You already make me hot under the collar without even trying :)

          2. mildred st. meadowlark

            Twould be a day wasted if I didn’t attempt to get you flustered at least once ;)

      1. Shayna

        Funnily enough, since reading Listrade’s comment, I’ve The Smith’s , “This Charming Man” playing in my head.

      2. Happy Molloy

        The Smiths are overrated. That’s not just me throwing my opinion out there, that’s an actual fact.

    2. Baz D

      I think the free third level education is attracting a lot of interest in the younger voters.

    3. MoyestWithExcitement

      “I dismissed Corbyn, because I just couldn’t take to his supporters, especially not the more vocal who threw the “zionist” tag around.”

      That’s not a very smart way of forming opinions. You, I’m guessing, have realised that as regards how you view Corbyn’s capabilities, but, it’s disappointing to see you take such a dismissive, belittling view on his “vocal” supporters, as if *you* are reasonable but people with different views on social justice are annoying, unreasonable evangelists. AND you perpetuate the anti semitism meme as if the Tories don’t have the same problem plus blacks and Muslims. Does antisemitism put you off feeling sympathy for Palestinians? Probably not. It’s good that you are finally starting to see sense though. Hopefully you’re one of many. I still wouldn’t bet on him but it would be great for him to win and expose the myth of right wing liberalism that Tony Blair and Bill Clinton and Obama sold as snake oil. There is a MUCH better way.

      1. Listrade

        Jesus Moyest. You should get a job writing horoscopes given your ability to read into something and come away with fantastical tripe.

        There’s literally 143 words there where you’re arguing with yourself. Think about what you are doing here. Someone comes around to your way of thinking and you decide to criticise that decision. *slow clap*

        I only wish I was like you and could make judgements purely on logic and reason. But I can’t, I’m human. All that human stuff gets in the way. Hence the Smiths anecdote. I was wrong, I judged on something of no substance. I learned by my error. And then Moyest steps in and it isn’t good enough that I was wrong, we have to have further prodding of just how wrong I was by making up things I didn’t say and making judgements on me based on the stuff you just made up in your own head.

        Here’s a hint from an old socialist. Corbyn isn’t the socialist you want, but he’ll do. He’s close enough for now. But that Labour Manifesto has some policies that were Tory policies the last time around. The immigration policy he’s under attack for by the right-wing press is identical to the Tory one, it just has a bit more costing against it. Substance enough?

        So don’t start on me about identifying snake oil or whether or not I can like a politician and then change my mind. Some of us have been in the trenches for socialism back when it was actual socialism and not just looking like socialism because everyone has move slightly right.

        And yes, the very small minority of Corbyn supporters (not Corbyn) who did spout antisemitic views (and did so after his Woman’s Hour appearance) did put me off. I don’t consider that kind of dismissive hate for an entire race merely “different views on social justice”. That sounds like you excusing racism and hate-speech. Given your record of calling racism on everyone who questions you on any subject, maybe you need to do a bit of introspection.

        It is possible to sympathise with Palestine and not feel the need to imply everyone who is Jewish is a zionist. The same way I can see that not every Muslim is a supporter of ISIS.

        I’m glad you’re happy I’ve finally started to see sense. Your condescension washes over me. You can play by yourself with your movable goal posts on racism…sorry “different views on social justice” and build as many straw men as you need to burn down.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          Firstly, it’s tremendously satisfying to see how you react to being spoken to in the same tone you spoke about Corbyn’s “vocal” supporters as if they’re all sheep in a personality cult. Also, ya know, grow up.

          “But I can’t, I’m human. All that human stuff gets in the way.”

          You’d think yourself and the other perpetuators of right wing memes could view supporters of Corbyn as 3 dimensional human beings as well. But…

          “Here’s a hint from an old socialist. Corbyn isn’t the socialist you want,”

          You do seem quite condescending for someone who complains about being condescended to…

          “Substance enough?”

          Yeah actually. Stick to that if you don’t want me consdescending to you.

          “So don’t start on me about identifying snake oil or whether or not I can like a politician and then change my mind.”

          You began the *previous paragraph* telling me that Corbyn isn’t the socialist I want.

          “And yes, the very small minority of Corbyn supporters (not Corbyn) who did spout antisemitic views (and did so after his Woman’s Hour appearance) did put me off.”

          Do the small minority of Palestinian supporters/activists and small minority of actual Palestinians who spout antisemitic views put you off supporting the Palestinian cause? If not, ask yourself why.

          “I don’t consider that kind of dismissive hate for an entire race merely “different views on social justice”. That sounds like you excusing racism and hate-speech.”

          When you tell blatant lies about what you said, it’s easy to say I’m excusing hate speech and racism. You said; “I just couldn’t take to his supporters, especially not the more vocal who threw the “zionist” tag around.” That “especially” bit means you also had a problem with his non racist supporters so don’t be disingenous and pretend it was just racism that put you off. That’s a lie.

          “It is possible to sympathise with Palestine and not feel the need to imply everyone who is Jewish is a zionist. The same way I can see that not every Muslim is a supporter of ISIS.”

          Ok then. ‘There’s literally (however many words are there) words there where you’re arguing with yourself.’

          1. Listrade

            Moyest, you create an argument with someone who admits they made a mistake and now agrees with you.

            And by create, I mean create as in made up a load of stuff in your head based on one sentence.

            “When you tell blatant lies about what you said, it’s easy to say I’m excusing hate speech and racism. You said; “I just couldn’t take to his supporters, especially not the more vocal who threw the “zionist” tag around.” That “especially” bit means you also had a problem with his non racist supporters so don’t be disingenous and pretend it was just racism that put you off. That’s a lie.”

            It isn’t a lie, it’s semantics. It’s writing a post in haste and not taking the time to really proof it to make sure I had expressed myself. But one thing it doesn’t mean is that I had a problem with his non-racist supporters. It means I led with a dig at the Smiths and their fans and had to kinda follow that thread.

            I think we’re getting into Inception territory with arguments to arguments to arguments.

            Here’s the craic: you had an issue with me saying that I had a problem with a minority of Corbyn supporters who I felt were antisemitic and I admitted I was wrong. You read into that a whole load of ideas as to what I think and what right I have to think that.

            You know, you’re right. I didn’t view those supporters as 3-dimensional human beings. Then I did…when I changed my mind and admitted I was wrong and that it was my fault I was wrong. But that doesn’t mean I can condone racism from anyone when it occurs.

            But in that same way, when you next attack someone for racism on here in the confines of a comment section of a website, will you entertain the idea that they’re a three-dimensional human? Accept there might be nuance to an opinion? That there may be context missing from their statement? If not, ask yourself why not.

            Probably because It’s hard to do in practice, but easy to preach when those espousing the hate are on the same side as you.

            To repeat: I admitted I made a mistake. That doesn’t mean I like racism. It doesn’t means I did what sometimes happens and let an emotional response get in the way of a rational one. I didn’t support any candidate over Corbyn. I didn’t prefer Tories over Corbyn. I just let some crap on social media influence my view and then changed that view when I took the time to look into it.

            I admit I didn’t get all that into a line of text.

            Sorry if that process grievously offends you and your righteous sensibilities. Irrespective of the obvious contradictions with your own comments and reactions on here to other posters and how most of the things you accuse me of seem to appear in your posts, I will model myself on you from now on.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            “you had an issue with me saying that I had a problem with a minority of Corbyn supporters”

            Again, you are lying about what you said to explicitly lie about what my position is, even after I clarified it in my second post. Again, you said “I dismissed Corbyn, because I just couldn’t take to his supporters,” No mention of a minority there. Then you add “especially not the more vocal who threw the “zionist” tag around.” You don’t like Corbyn supporters, ESPECIALLY the racist ones. Now you’re saying you just had a problem with the small minority of racist ones because you had an extremely emotional response to criticism.

            “I admitted I was wrong.”

            Right, and you blamed his supporters for it. If it wasn’t for those pesky Corbynites, you’d have copped on. Not your fault, guv.

            “You read into that a whole load of ideas as to what I think”

            You spoke about Corbyn supporters like they’re some sort of tribe or personality cult as opposed to people just like you who came to support Corbyn through reasoned and honest analysis. You then blamed them for YOU being wrong. So it was the attempt to negate your own responsilbility for being wrong, your attempt to belittle and disparage people and the fact you were happy to use an obviously designed news story about “antisemtism problems” as a stick to beat him with. This isn’t rocket science. You don’t need to be mind reader. People are pretty simple.

            “But in that same way, when you next attack someone for racism on here in the confines of a comment section of a website”

            I didn’t even imply you condone racism. And you have a go at ME for making things up out of thin air?!? Stop feeling and start thinking.

            “will you entertain the idea that they’re a three-dimensional human?”

            No, not in a public sphere. Racism needs to be pilloried. If you want to defend racists and be more understanding of them here, that is your perogative.

            “If not, ask yourself why not.”

            I just did. I’m pretty happy with my answer and the fact that you’re mimicing my lines. Did you answer my question about why antisemitism puts you off Labour but not Palestine then? Answer it to yourself, of course.

            “To repeat: I admitted I made a mistake.”

            And blamed and belittled someone else for it.

            “That doesn’t mean I like racism.”

            I didn’t say it did. Genuinely have no idea where you got that from, although it’s pretty funny considering you are accusing ME of arguing with myself and making things up in my head.

            “Sorry if that process grievously offends you and your righteous sensibilities. Irrespective of the obvious contradictions with your own comments and reactions on here to other posters and how most of the things you accuse me of seem to appear in your posts, I will model myself on you from now on.”

            I’m not sure if I’ve ever spoken to you before today. Let the records show that I just took issue with something you said. You, in response go on an emtional tirade and take lots of personal potshots at me. Calm down and grow up, Listrade.

          3. Listrade

            I refer you to the bit in my last post where I said that it was a throw away line done in haste. Rather than a lie, I didn’t explain my statement as clearly as I’d have liked largely because I was focussing on getting a dig in against the Smiths. From that you read an awful lot into something that wasn’t there.

            Now I’m confused. I don’t know what we’re arguing about other than we are. I think you were saying I was wrong to judge his supporters based on some of them making racist statements. I think. It might be that you’re saying they didn’t make those statements.. We’ll disagree on that. I saw statements made that went beyond disagreement with Israel and into antisemitism. I’m pretty sure we can agree that there is some, even if small, antisemitism on the far left? I’ve been there in meetings and everything where this has gone ahead. Actual antisemitism. It exists on the left. It exists on the right.

            Anyway, I think they did make racists comments and it soured me. I let that influence me. I changed my mind and realised that does not represent Corbyn. The end.

            Not all Smiths fans were dancing around with Gladioli, quoting Penguin Classics and pretentious poems they’d written. Some did. I made a sweeping statement on all Smiths fans. I take nothing back there.

            I admitted you were right, at least I thought I had admitted that, though in a glib way, in my original comment. I thought I had admitted again in my second and third reply.

            Other than that, WTF?

            I didn’t say you did say I was condoning racism. I didn’t say it because I don’t know what you are saying.

            I don’t know if you are saying the some of the Corbyn supporters aren’t antisemitic or that I was wrong to judge Corbyn based on the few that are antisemitic.

            I’m not defending racists or racism. I was confused by your statement on the three dimensional nature of Corbyn supporters. Was that meaning that they may make antisemitic comments, but there is a nuance too them I never took up? I’ll be honest that’s how I was reading it. I took it that you were defending the antisemitism and asking me to see beyond it. If I’m wrong, sorry.

            “Did you answer my question about why antisemitism puts you off Labour but not Palestine then? Answer it to yourself, of course.”

            I thought I had, but probably not clearly. Antisemitism didn’t put me off Labour, it put me off Corbyn. There’s a difference. It didn’t lead me to support his competitors or another political party. I still believed in the cause of Labour, just at that time didn’t have confidence in the leader. Then I stopped projecting the antisemitic views expressed by few on him. Did I mention I was wrong to do that? Pretty sure I did.

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            “I refer you to the bit in my last post where I said that it was a throw away line done in haste.”

            Ah, so you meant something completely different from what you actually said. My fault for not knowing being able to read your mind. My sincerest apologies.

            “I don’t know what we’re arguing about”

            Ah, ya do, yeah. You’re just trying to obsfuscate. ‘If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bs” Credit where it’s due, you’re doing a good job of it. I was *almost* confused when I finished this last post of yours as well.

            “I think you were saying I was wrong to judge his supporters based on some of them making racist statements. I think.”

            I’m just going to copy and paste a paragraph addressing this from my last post;

            You spoke about Corbyn supporters like they’re some sort of tribe or personality cult as opposed to people just like you who came to support Corbyn through reasoned and honest analysis. You then blamed them for YOU being wrong. So it was the attempt to negate your own responsilbility for being wrong, your attempt to belittle and disparage people and the fact you were happy to use an obviously designed news story about “antisemtism problems” as a stick to beat him with. This isn’t rocket science. You don’t need to be mind reader. People are pretty simple.

            “It might be that you’re saying they didn’t make those statements.”

            I’m not, and you know I’m not. This is you deliberately obsfucating.

            “I admitted you were right, at least I thought I had admitted that, though in a glib way, in my original comment. I thought I had admitted again in my second and third reply.”

            This isn’t about you or I. This is about attitudes and narratives. You might be looking for personal validation from your posts on this blog. I’m not, or at least, not as much as you clearly are. I don’t care if you “admit” I’m right.

            it’s disappointing to see you take such a dismissive, belittling view on his “vocal” supporters, as if *you* are reasonable but people with different views on social justice are annoying, unreasonable evangelists. AND you perpetuate the anti semitism meme as if the Tories don’t have the same problem plus blacks and Muslims.

            “I was confused by your statement on the three dimensional nature of Corbyn supporters.”

            What I said in my first post to you is easy to understand. You flew off the handle and clearly didn’t consider it. You just went into an almost literal blind rage. What I said was;

            it’s disappointing to see you take such a dismissive, belittling view on his “vocal” supporters, as if *you* are reasonable but people with different views on social justice are annoying, unreasonable evangelists. AND you perpetuate the anti semitism meme as if the Tories don’t have the same problem plus blacks and Muslims.

            I said;
            1. You belittled Corbyn supporters as a group and *blamed them* for distoring your perception about Corbyn.
            2. You also perpetuated the “antisemitism problem” as if the Tories don’t have the SAME PROBLEM, implying recognition of its existence but offering a different perspective on it; ie why didn’t the press also talk about the Tories antisemitism problem and racism problem? Because they wanted to affect perceptions of Corbyn’s Labour party as being a mess. Why would someone more or less ideologically aligned with him gladly buy into that meme? How could someone ideologically aligned with him not see what the press were doing? Because you already didn’t like him and this gave you a chance to tell yourself you were being principled? I’m going with probably.

          5. Listrade

            Riiiiiiggghhhhhhttttt.

            So, I think I’m clear.

            Ok shorter response then. Probably.

            1. I didn’t blame them for being wrong I blamed me. My judgement. I judged wrong. At least that was my intention
            2. You agree then those statements were made by some supporters.
            3. I didn’t mention Tories or anyone else because the discussion was on Corbyn, I don’t have to qualify a statement by stating that there is antisemitism across the right too.
            4. In two fuppin lines on the subject in the original post I didn’t quantify the precise proportion of Corbyn voters that made those comments that originally soured me.
            5. But then you just went ahead and made a lot of assumptions on one sentence. It could have gone:
            Moyest – “You mean all Corbyn supporters put you off?”
            Me – “No, sorry, just the small minority. Can’t edit it no as no edit function. But it was that small minority who where antisemitic that made me make an incorrect judgement on him.”
            Instead, you lead with specific judgements on what I meant and was saying. That kinda got my back up. Funny that.

            Just look at your posts, you consistently make assumptions about the poster. What they meant and what they are. You claim you’re not seeking validation like some sulking Emo kid with their piercings and died hair. No one gets me and I don’t care. But please accept me.

            Oops, there I go again with a sweeping generalisation of Emo kids. Sorry, a small minority of Emo kids that are really just seeking attention by pretending to be on a higher intellectual, emotional and cultural span than everyone else. But like Smiths fans.

            So your points 1&2.
            1. No i didn’t I blamed me.
            2. Erm no. Not even remotely. That is all you.

          6. MoyestWithExcitement

            Well, this has been a tremendously disappointing experience although at the same time, a validating one in so far as I was right not to pay too much attention to your posts before. I criticised something you said and you’ve gone on a very long and emotional rant mixed in with lots of personal invective directed at me. Ok, mate. You win. Even though I’m anonymous I’m actually embarrassed I lowered myself to your standard. Good job. I’d adivse you famliiarise yourself with the concept of embarrassment because, your posts, my God. Disjointed and incoherent nonsense. It’s no wonder Ireland is still deeply conservative if people like you are leading the charge against it. Íosa Críost.

          7. Listrade

            Here Moyest, before you go, here’s your ball back.

            But also, nah, you didn’t just “criticise something I said”. That would be ok if you did. You attacked the person, not the comment.

            You said:
            “That’s not a very smart way of forming opinions.”…ah that’s criticising me. not the statement. You start off with a good old dig to the ribs.

            ” as if *you* are reasonable but people with different views on social justice are annoying, unreasonable evangelists.” yup me again and an assumption. I never said I was reasonable.

            ” AND you perpetuate the anti semitism meme as if the Tories don’t have the same problem plus blacks and Muslims. Does antisemitism put you off feeling sympathy for Palestinians? Probably not. ” Me again and another assumption.

            Other than that it was a perfectly reasonable and composed critique of one single line in my post. And then finish with another post which is simply another fine attack on me…after stating you’re way above ever doing that.

          8. MoyestWithExcitement

            You taking “that’s not a smart way of forming opinions” as an attack on your character as opposed to criticism about that specific instance of you how you formed an opinion, pretty much explains the rest of your rage posts. And as for ending with a personal attack, yes, I did. You’ve been firing them at me all day so why not? I never said I was above it. You are, again, making things up in your head because of your blind rage at someone questioning you. I was just pointing out that I wasn’t doing it to you in response to your many, many personal attacks on me. Cheers for the ball. Here are your balls back in return.

          9. I'm "alright" Jack. Mad Jack is on annual leave.

            In fact both of you are a right pair of oul wans

  6. Charger Salmons

    “A campaign in which every most likely option still sees him winning.”
    You’re deluded old cock.
    Corbyn hasn’t a hope in hell of winning but I can see why a third-rate politician like Calamity Corbyn appeals
    He has never held high office – in fact he’s never even held office in the Labour party before he became leader.He’s loathed by a majority of his MPs and he’s treated with ridicule and contempt by much of the British electorate.

    The YouGov hung parliament poll was predicated on an 80% turnout of 18-25 year olds.80% !
    The reality is the Don’t Knows of which there are many with go for the incumbent party as they always do – employment is at record high levels so why would they risk their jobs for Corbyn’s clown car economics ?
    Millions of Kippers and huge swathes of traditional Labour voters who voted Leave in the Brexit referendum will switch to the Tories.
    I predict an 80-seat majority.
    If you do want to put your money where your mouth is go for Brighton Kemptown as the only Tory seat that will fall to Labour.You can get 11/4 at Ladbrokes,5/2 at Paddy Power.
    As for the Greens they’re even more ridiculed than Labour and the pisspoor Tim Farron’s LibDems and their non-existent surge in the polls thanks to their insistence on another Brexit referendum.
    I suppose the Greens might just give the Monster Raving Loony Party a run in some constituencies.

    1. ahjayzis

      Well, youth vote was 40 odd percent in 2015, 65% at the referendum, and Labour are literally offering them the moon. You never know.

      I think you misunderstand Dan though, 3 weeks ago Labour were heading for 1983 territory. If Jeremy only maintains his number of MPs and vote share, he’s won and Theresa May looks a fool. A U-Turn of a general election based on hubris and changing nothing. Strong and stable me hole.

  7. nellyb

    (tinyurl.com/yaw4o8po) ‘Nationwide says average cost of home fell 0.2% last month with price growth slowing further in 2017 as inflation squeezes household incomes’ – this trend is to Corbyn’s advantage. But he’ll be facing domestic and global recession if in power. it’s a mighty challenge.

  8. bisted

    …Thank you Dan for your wonderful insight into the UK election…in fairness, few people from the Irish body politic would have your level of knowledge or involvement in recent UK elections…

  9. ahjayzis

    “Too many progressives turn their backs on markets, seeing the realisation of profit as being crimes against the people.”

    A generalisation worth of Theresa May, Dan.

    What is it about his opposition to state subsidised railways paying dividends to Branson and the French government while service is shocking, prices are outrageous and investment is lacking?

    What makes you support an energy cartel owned by foreign governments over energy companies owned by the British government?

    In what way is the UK housing market working for anyone but homeowners with equity in the south-east of England?

    No problem with private finance initiatives in the NHS, no?

    1. MoyestWithExcitement

      +1 It is a myt..sorry, I mean lie that “progressives” see profit and money as evil. Progressives believe people can earn as much money as they want, as long as they do it *fairly* and *ethically*.

    2. Gorev Mahagut

      +1

      Corporate law and business financing ensure that companies exist to make profit. Not to produce goods or supply services.

      But any suggestion that this should change is met with cries (from right and left) that making a profit is some kind of human right.

      It isn’t.

      1. ahjayzis

        Doubly so when the profit is bolstered by exchequer subsidy. That’s literally welfare to the wealthy.

        1. nellyb

          ah he knows that and for sure, he ain’t an idiot. but why he says it anyway – it’s a mystery.
          habit probably.

          1. ahjayzis

            It’s these self-described “moderates” saving face. They wholeheartedly agree with the manifesto – the details, but absolutely MUST throw in a vague barb about tone or inflection or something Mayishly obtuse like half the article above.

            Dan’s both to the right of Labour, but also very much to the right of the Green Party of England and Wales. They make the auld Comhaontas Glas look positively Tory.

    3. Dan Boyle

      Because I don’t mention them I oppose them? There’s nothing there I disagree with. As regards to be to the ‘right’ of anyone. I’m too the left if who opposes property tax. I’d consider myself in the same space as Caroline Lucas.

      1. ahjayzis

        “Too many progressives turn their backs on markets, seeing the realisation of profit as being crimes against the people.”

        Caroline Lucas doesn’t rehearse worn-out reductio-ad-absurdums from the Tory handbook. If she did I imagine she’d probably back it up.

        1. Dan Boyle

          Her co leader is an ex tory. I’m not writing a thesis, I’m encouraging debate. Take it down a notch.

          1. ahjayzis

            You’re flinging the same unsubstantiated mud as the Blairites at him 8 days before an election. Maybe wait to burnish your centrism until afterwards?

  10. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    I think increased life expectancy is a major electoral issue. You have all these old buggers in Engerland, voting for Brexit and for the Tories. The number of voters over 70 must be a lot higher than it was 30 or 50 years ago, so this may be having an impact on the results. It is a shame that a significant number of older people can vote England out of the EU and drag the rest of their unwanted kingdom and younger people with them.

    1. Charger Salmons

      The thing about the older people is that they’ve worked and paid the taxes to create the country that the young people are now growing up in.
      Why shouldn’t they have a say in the future too.
      The UK is in a better position economically than it has ever been,employment is at a record high so too is inward investment into the country.
      And if the UK is such a horrible place for young people who do so many people – last year a city the size of Hull – wish to move there.
      You really must try harder in your school lessons dear boy.

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