Feared ‘Fall From Grace’ Over ‘Sexual Matter’

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Alan Hawe

Gary Meneely, in The Irish Sun, reports:

Alan Hawe killed his family as he faced the prospect of his marriage breaking up, it emerged yesterday.

The deputy school principal murdered wife Clodagh and their three sons before taking his own life at their Cavan home in August 2016.

The Irish Sun has also learned Hawe’s feared “fall” from grace was over a “sexual matter”.

Mary and Jacqueline [Clodagh’s sisters] said in their statement:

“While the psychiatrist has attempted as best he could to create a retrospective diagnosis based on items and records, his GP who knew him for five years said he never displayed any signs of depression.”

“On August 29, 2016, we lost our daughter and sister Clodagh and her lovely sons Liam, Niall and Ryan in the most horrific circumstances.

“We are aware that the inquest has a limited role in law in that its function is restricted to establishing how, where and when our loved ones died.

“….The inquest does not address why Alan Hawe committed this savagery but his counsellor has said that he was concerned about his position as ‘a pillar of the community’ and we are aware that he was concerned at his imminent fall from that position and the breakdown of his marriage.”

Twisted Alan Hawe faced the prospect of his marriage ending as he feared a ‘fall from grace’ over a ‘sexual matter’ (The Irish Sun)

Yesterday: ‘We Are Aware That Alan Hawe Was Concerned At His Imminent Fall’

Previously: The War At Home

71 thoughts on “Feared ‘Fall From Grace’ Over ‘Sexual Matter’

    1. TheRealJane

      Why? There were scores of people here to further stigmatise people with mental illness by associating this man’s crimes with mental illness and to scream at anyone who suggested that this was the entirely predictable and common result of our unwillingness, as a society, to discuss male entitlement and violence.

      And now that it’s clear that this man murdered his family to preserve his reputation (it was a great one that we’re all fully aware of, thanks to the media reporting), we can’t now discuss male entitlement and violence? Is that because it’s clear that that’s what is entirely at the root of what happened here?

      1. The Ghost of Starina

        +1000000000 TheRealJane.

        We see this again and again in family murder cases; the man senses that he may lose his family so he kills them rather than let them go. Entitlement at its most desctructive.

      2. Barry the Hatchet

        TheRealJane and Starina, might I take this (albeit somewhat inappropriate) opportunity to say that I always really enjoy your comments on broadsheet. I hope you both have a lovely Christmas :)

    1. bisted

      …murder suicide is thankfully a rare phenomenon but it needs to be fully investigated by experts from every discipline…not agencies such as the church or law which seem intent on gagging scrutiny or those elements of the press who are interested only in sensationalising such a shocking occurrence…

        1. Go A Way

          Everyone looks at a subject from a particular standpoint – the key is to be aware of what your own biases are Clampers – that’s usually where you fall on your face

    2. Topsy

      Why, this so called man murdered one woman and three children. You’d like to keep it in the family as it were. Comments should not be closed.

  1. postmanpat

    Well I guess we will never know what happened., and sure even if we did what does it matter? The guy was nuts it might have been a nature/nurture thing. Its not like we have any of his boys left to keep an eye on or test that hypothesis. I recon he was touched my a priest and/or was repressed and/or had a brain tumor like that post office worker in Oklahoma. Who knows? Some people think that he wasn’t mental that he was thinking clearly and was just plain evil. I think those people are nuts.

    1. papa p

      Sure go ahead and classify everyone that does something evil as “nuts”.
      It puts a barrier between you and them.
      The crazies and the sane.

      The world isn’t black and white.

      1. Topsy

        Ah sure if they’re “nuts” it’s easier to swallow than saying somebody is simply an evil murderer.

      2. postmanpat

        “The world isn’t black and white” yet you believe in good or evil instead of crazy or sane? At least my black and white theory has a physical scientific reason basis. Your spiritual black and white view is either people are good or evil? Go back to church you peasant. You belong in the dark ages where people believed in the devil possessing people and where self educated women where witches and burned at the stake. Ill get on with the 21st century thanks.

  2. Paddy at the Howth Summit

    Here we go ahead. Ireland. Can’t talk openly about mental healthy issues. Can’t talk openly about sexual health issues.

    It’s “the nerves”. It’s “the marriage”.

    Result: Murder.

    1. TheRealJane

      People think they are being kind and dignified by not openly discussing these things but what they’re actually doing is colluding in silence and making it far harder for victims to speak out before it gets to murder, harder for families to discuss the warning signs and act.

      It’s disheartening to see the impulse to shut it all down and shut us all up. People need to know. Controllers, abusers, they need the collusion of silence and not speaking ill of pillars of the community/the dead removed.

      1. Clampers Outside!

        I also find that when idealogues come to the discussion with preconceived ideas of what the problem is, based on whatever theory (usually feminist patriarchy theory) they subscribe to, to be also an impediment to proper discussion.

        1. Barry the Hatchet

          I find that when ideologues come to the discussion and refuse to acknowledge that lots of academic work has already been done to examine what drives men to murder their intimate partners and/or children, demanding instead that we pretend that nothing comparable has ever happened before and that we should therefore enter this discussion without the benefit of anything we’ve learned or deduced by analysing the long history of male violence against women and children, that this is also an impediment to proper discussion.

          1. Not feeling so Nice Anne

            Clampers was once in an abusive relationship, he was abused by his partner, a woman.

            He has also seen a great many youtube vids where men are keen to explain how feminists are keen to leave men out of discussions about male on female violence because they have an “agenda”. Because of his experience, he feels this is unfair. (Yes kids, not wanting yourself or other women to get their head bashed in is “an agenda”)

            Instead of opening up any constructive discussions about female on male violence, he would rather complain that he is left out of the discussion on male on female violence. A discussion he has no place in. 1 because he has no experience of it and 2 because he is so biased against women and feminists who do very much want to talk about it.

            In cases like this example of male on female violence, he will yell and should about other’s bias’ clouding the discussion. Ironically there has been no bias expressed here. This happened because a man considered himself as the owner of his wife and children and if he could not have them no-one could. A very common theme with misogynists.

            The only bias is Clampers aversion to feminist ideology. He has no place in it, therefore it should not happen in his little mind. Sad but true.

          2. Clampers Outside!

            ” seen a great many youtube vids where men are keen to explain how feminists are keen to leave men out of discussions about male on female violence because they have an “agenda”. ”

            Made up nonsense.

            – – –

            ” Instead of opening up any constructive discussions about female on male violence, he would rather complain that he is left out of the discussion on male on female violence. ”

            Where did I do so? Oh… I didn’t :)

            So…. a lie.

            – – –

            ” A discussion he has no place in. 1 because he has no experience of it and 2 because he is so biased against women and feminists who do very much want to talk about it. ”

            “1 because he has no experience of it ” – You dont know that. What I have disclosed are my experiences. I have not shared what I know of others specifics, women and men, because of the personal capacity of those stories.

            ” 2 because he is so biased against women and feminists who do very much want to talk about it. ” – The ‘biased against women’ line is your made up opinion, nothing more. Regarding bias towards ‘feminists’, yes, absolutely when feminist agencies push The Duluth Model which purports that only women can be victims and only men can be perps.

            I find it disheartening that people like yourself see my consistent knocking of the batpoo crazy idea of The Duluth Model and other aspects of feminist patriarchy theory as an attack on women. Your inability to see women and feminism as not the same thing is something you will have to look into in order to see that difference clearly.

            – – –

            ” In cases like this example of male on female violence, he will yell and should about other’s bias’ clouding the discussion. ”

            If done, please point this out with an example, thanks. Otherwise, this is simply accusation.

            – – –

            ” This happened because ”

            …as the inquest report said, the man had a psychotic break.

            – – –

            ” The only bias is Clampers aversion to feminist ideology. ”

            Finally, you say something that is correct. I do have an aversion to backward feminist ideology, particularly The Duluth Model.

            – – – – – – – – – – – –

            My tuppence…
            The fact that you support a biased ideology like feminism only exposes your own blindly biased ‘feminist lens’ view to be a very real bias.

            For the truth about DV, DA and IPV please see the experts; here’s Dr Tonia Nichols – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtOsEkY_UHc

          3. Casey

            Poster: ‘Clampers uses youtube videos to present his bias’
            Clampers “Oh no I don’t, here is a youtube to show you what I mean”

            Too funny.

  3. gorugeen

    Some are saying he must be mentally ill to do what he did. Consider this. The Bosnian war had just kicked off. A Christian man goes to his Muslim next door neighbor whom they’ve known well for years. He holds them at gun point, ties them up. He then raped the mother and young children in front of the others. Then he slit the children’s throats and made the parents watch. He then shot them in the face. Atrocities like this that make no sense at all happened again and again during that war. The perpetrators were not mentally ill. They were ordinary folk who allowed the darkest part of their humanity surface. That’s the Crux of it. Human beings are capable of unspeakable things. Just look at the 20th century.
    This country is littered with stories of human suffering at the hands of others. People can be evil.

    1. Friscondo

      Funny you should mention that. I noticed when you crossed the border from Croatia that there were groups of houses where only one was burnt out. These were the Muslim houses, who had lived for decades beside their Catholic neighbours. What happened in Bosnia illustrates how ordinary people can turn into savages, given the circumstances and the warped mentality.

      1. gorugeen

        Did what happen? Neighbours raping and killing neighbours. Yes it did, repeatedly. Muslim houses being burned out by Catholics. Yes, repeatedly and often with the occupants inside. Read up on the Balkan war. Every side committed unspeakable atrocities, often perpetrated by ordinary people.

        1. bisted

          ‘…good people do good things and bad people do evil things…but for good people to do evil things…that takes religion…’

        2. postmanpat

          HA! Nice story with subtle racist undertones, very clever gorugeen , really make one think!! , No. You cant write off the entire human race as a bunch of potential maniacs a hair trigger away from raping and murdering. That’s the type of clergy nonsense that weak minded saps buy into. It the type of story your catholic secondary school religion teacher (who hasn’t married because he hasn’t met the “right woman” yet) bang on about. The type of person who does what your saying is waiting for the fog of war opportunity to act out his sick fantasies with impunity. I’m thinking you are clergy of some kind gorugeen? or the “deeply” spiritual type? You think humans are puppets and satan or god is pulling our strings at any given time. Science? What’s that? Sounds hard! and the answers will probably be dull, Good and Evil is far more fun to talk about. Its more entertaining. Like Star Wars.

  4. Daisy Chainsaw

    If Alan Hawe had just killed himself, he’d have been feted as the “pillar of the community” that he felt his ego deserved. He’d have been publicly mourned by the great and good and the priestly eulogy wouldn’t have seemed indulgent and disgusting. Most importantly, there’d be a widow and 3 children quietly getting on with their lives.

    1. Go A Way

      Is this remark a manifestation of your own depression? Some of the things you do be saying on this are very dark

      1. oh please

        What a nasty comment, GO A WAY. You should feel great shame. Pitiful.Not the first time though you have behaved in such a disgusting manner. Daisy is correct. That would have been the most probable outcome, if suicide alone had been committed.

        1. Go A Way

          Oh please indeed. Used to care what some random newbie insults me about but not any more. Troll off

          Daisy has spoken very openly about her own struggles here and I put it to her that maybe she would be better able to rationalize her own situation if she doesn’t already know how some of her comments come across
          That’s all

          1. Niamh

            Her point about the probable outcome if Hawe had only killed himself is rational, based on observations on humanity, and backed up by another commentator.

            Your suggestion that, because she has suffered depression, her opinion is clouded or less-than-relevant, and that she might want to check how she ‘comes across’, is condescending and arrogant.

            I don’t think anyone need apologise for their observations on a high-profile murder-suicide case being ‘dark’.

      2. Daisy Chainsaw

        My own depression has never led me to want to brutally murder my family. Dark thoughts about ending my own life surfaced a few years back, but I got the help I needed and, currently, they don’t trouble me, thanks for asking.

        I’m disgusted that people are trying to twist Alan Hawe’s psychopathy into depression to minimise what he did.

        1. Go A Way

          Thanks for replying daisy it was a serious and genuine question I posed to you despite what others here are trying to twist it into

          I agree that turning this into a depression story is regrettable, but I don’t see it as negatively, people mostly want simple narratives to describe what is bizarre and unforeseen in my experience, the priest, the butcher, the candlestick lad – they all to greater or lesser extent rely on others according to their view of their own carefully crafted role in a carefully proscribed moral and ethical framework, when downright absurd events like this happen people just grasp at stereotypes at first to make some sense of it all

          I think priests have a difficult time of it in these cases getting the tone right, at one level suicide, murder etc are grievous sins, according to their cathechisms, at another the congregation want a lot more than just a denunciation – some reassurance if you will that salvation is still possible, personally I think that’s why church and civil leaders stick to the safe patriarchal “it couldn’t happen here” angle

          Yes that reflects poorly on the status of the female and children victims in this case but it’s a mirror also of how our still quite backward society actually functions
          Hope that helps

          1. oh please

            “Hope that helps”. Thanks Warden of the Snort . Your patronising tone and inability to construct a sentence reveals your true identity. I can also recall you once saying to Lilly that she had ” resting bitch face” and your constant bullying of Frilly would lead me to conclude that you can be quite the troll when it suits.
            Happy to help.

  5. Niamh

    The first piece of immediate advice on literature by Women’s Aid, who deal with women experiencing domestic violence, is ‘get out of the home as soon as you can, safely’.

    The first piece of immediate advice on literature by Amen, who deal with men experiencing domestic violence, is ‘do not leave the home. It is yours.’

    The difference between these two speaks volumes. Women are advised to leave because, statistically, they are more likely to end up dead if they don’t.

    Men are advised to stay because the house is to be construed as a status pawn in some notional divorce proceeding with a harpy.

    ‘Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.’

    1. Scundered

      I’ve known a few friends over the years who have been subject to domestic violence from women, and I can assure you they are as much concerned about their lives than “being laughed at”… what a ridiculous and patronising thing to suggest.

      1. Nigel

        I think the quote reflects the sorts of attitudes that have made it difficult for male victims of DV to get help and support or even taken seriously, rather than the attitudes of the victims themselves. ‘Don’t leave the home’ as advice suggests a pretty skewed set of priorities.

        1. Scundered

          Well in a loosely related issue I have heard them mention that it is hard getting Gardai to take violence against males seriously, though the quote above still seems grossly inaccurate.

        2. Clampers Outside!

          “suggests a pretty skewed set of priorities.”

          Myself, when I read it, the first I thought was… probably staying for the kids.

          Maybe you could elaborate, what it suggests to you are these skewed priorities.

          1. Nigel

            It seems to me prioritising property over personal safety. if there are kids, and they are at risk, the victim could take them, too, if possible. A woman would certainly be expected to.

          2. Clampers Outside!

            So, we disagree on the interpretation of what is meant by the suggestion.

            – – –

            On the claim that that it is the first bit of advice on literature for either agency is hyperbolic to my knowledge.

          3. Nigel

            I’m sorry, I don’t see how your interpretation qualifies it as good advice. A person may find themselves obliged to stay in a violent situation because of their children, but the good advice would still be to try to get themselves and the kids out if you can.

            And you’re right, of course, that is assuming that Niamh is correct.

  6. Lilly

    Interesting comment from Daisy: “I’m disgusted that people are trying to twist Alan Hawe’s psychopathy into depression to minimise what he did.”

    I’ve been wondering for a while now if a personality disorder is a mental illness? How much free will do people with personality disorders have in reality? Is a psychopath any more blameworthy than someone whose judgment is clouded by depression – if they are compelled to do what they do?

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