How Many Times?


Via Gavan Reilly

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40 thoughts on “How Many Times?

  1. b

    makes sense that FF and SF are jostling for position on this after it was called the next IW in the paper…..though I found this interesting in the Times this morning,

    “Ross Maguire, a senior counsel and founder of New Beginnings, a debt advisory service, said Fianna Fáil’s bill was unnecessary and would not provide any extra protection for mortgage holders.

    Vulture funds do not directly manage the distressed loans as they outsource this function to credit servicing companies. A comprehensive legal framework was introduced in 2015 which gives the Central Bank extensive powers over these service providers. “If these vulture funds directed the service provider to do anything that would compromise the rights of the mortgage holder, then the service provider is obligated to report this to the Central Bank as it is a criminal offence,” Mr Maguire said.

    He added that there would not be a wave of repossessions. “In my experience vulture funds are easier to deal with from the borrowers’ point of view. They are more willing to do deals than the banks,” he said. “They are commercially driven entities. They have no interest in spending a few years in court trying to get a repossession order. Irish homeowners enjoy some of the strongest protections in the developed world.”

    1. anne

      Mortgage holders don’t have rights to their home if they miss one payment… but most banks work with their mortgage holders. Vultures do not, and have already repossessed homes here.

      1. Killian G

        “Mortgage holders don’t have rights to their home if they miss one payment”

        Sweetie you need to shut up because you do not know what you are talking about. Ever.

      2. b

        If holders didn’t have rights to their home if they missed one payment there was be a hell of a lot more repossessions. Your statement is completely groundless

        The truth is repossessions are relatively rare in Ireland and take a very long time and are not granted until after a bank has made numerous attempts to work with a mortgage holder.

      3. Cian

        You know what appears on every ad for a mortgage?
        …and every website when you look for a mortgage?
        …and every application form when you’re getting your mortgage?
        …and every letter from your bank relating to you mortgage?
        …and it’s prominently displayed?

        Warning: If you do not keep up your repayments you may lose your home.

        1. Andrew

          Not many lose their home in Ireland though Cian. Our repossession rates are tiny in comparison to other jurisdictions and the ‘family home’ label just does not apply in many, many cases. Anyone remember the St. Matthias Wood couple that the Occupy Movement defended? people are deluded in this country.
          Even buy to let landlords, who are still collecting rents and NOT paying their mortgages haven’t been moved on.
          People wonder why mortgage rates are so high in Ireland? Effectively banks have no recourse.

          1. ahjayzis

            Make it official then. You can repossess the house if you write off the debt in it’s entirety – like in the states. People can start afresh and the bank gets the asset it bought.

    2. realPolithicks

      “He added that there would not be a wave of repossessions. “In my experience vulture funds are easier to deal with from the borrowers’ point of view. They are more willing to do deals than the banks,” he said.”

      That’s interesting, I heard David Hall on the radio yesterday saying exactly the opposite to this. Clearly the answer is that we don’t know what will happen and the facts need to be established before even thinking about going ahead.

      1. b

        David Hall and Ross Maguire had a parting of the ways a few years back over some ‘idealogical’ issues

        Having had experience of seeing both of them work, i know which one i believe and which one is full of bluster

      2. Andy

        Hall is a bullpooper

        Loud words and doom mongering gets him mountains or airtime & free PR for his cause (and potential political run down the line). Hence everything, no matter the details, is the end of the world to him. And the media lap him up as it gives them great eye catching quotes and headlines.

        Ross Maguire is a more measured and considered speaker (he’s also an actual bloody lawyer) so he gets virtually no airtime compared with Hall.

        Not to take away from the fact that Hall appears to be a well intentioned guy and his initiatives are genuinely helping people. The fact they may be helping people at the expense of the wider public, is another debate but that’s not his problem.

  2. Taunton

    If these customers of PSTB had been repaying their loans then they would not be in this position.

    If you are a regular PTSB customer, you are paying these mortgages for these people.

    1. dav

      … and remember to treat the homeless with hatred ’cause they got themselves homeless and should suffer for it…

    2. b

      It’s not possible for everyone to be repaying their loans, some people don’t have the income anymore, but it is generally fair to say if you have not been engaging with your bank, you’re likely in this situation by now

      1. anne

        That’s not fair to say at all. You have no idea if these 20,000 customers have not engaged with the bank & if that’s a factor or not in the bank offloading their dirty work.

        1. b

          Well according to PTSB’s annual report they offered long term forbearance/restructuring to over 35,0000 customers and have about 27,000 in arrangements

          you can either assume there’s 20,000 that PTSB have in arrears for over 5 years and have not bothered to contact them, or that there is a reluctance on the side of the borrower to engage with solutions in the hope of a better deal.

    3. anne

      You’re also paying for the profit these vultures make, on top of accommodation costs for people made homeless.

  3. anne

    How does Mary Lou know if the bald eagle from Limerick met the vultures 60 times? There’s no doubt he’s been seen wining and dining with them but 60? If it’s true we need an investigation.

    1. Blonto

      Ministerial diary FOI maybe? You’d hope she had some proof.
      Noonan was definitely mates with the vultures. He looked after them at every turn.
      What an evil shit.

  4. Baffled

    I wonder how many of the people who grumble about the high cost of mortgages in Ireland relative to other EU member states simultaneously hold the position that the banks shouldn’t evict people who: (i) have persistently failed to meet the terms of their loan agreement; and (ii) refuse to engage in any resolution process.

    1. realPolithicks

      So your saying that the reason that Irish mortgage interest rates are nearly double the EU rates is because a small percentage of mortgage holders are in default? What a bunch of BS and if you actually believe that then theres a bridge in Brooklyn I’d like to sell to you.

      1. b

        it’s not a small percentage. have you missed the bit of this story that PTSB still have 4bln of these loans alone and the banks have been taking provisions and raising capital against these npls for the last almost 10 years

        1. Toni the exotic dancer

          the reason interest rates are so high in Ireland is because the banks can’t repo property. Hall is a liar and the media need to stand up to him.

      2. Andy

        Small percentage?

        – 10% (72k) of mortgage accounts & mortgage debt are in arrears
        – 7% (50k) are in arrears over 90 days
        – 16% (119k) of mortgage accounts have been restructured
        – 21% of restructured mortgages are in arrears

        You’re not only paying for those in regular arrears, you’re also paying for a chunk of the 16% that have been “restructured” as the Bank isn’t making the same return on them as regular mortgages as (i) many are not paying the full interest either through a split mortgage or reduced interest rate etc, (ii) they require a higher capital allocation, etc.

        Then you have to add in the buy to let issues which regular standard variable rate borrowers are paying for:
        – 19% (23k) of BTL mortgages that are in arrears
        – 15% (18k) are in arrears over 90 days
        – 19% (23k) have been restructured (of which 4% are still in arrears)
        – So in total 33% of BTL mortgages are either in arrears of have been restructured.
        – But that 33% actually accounts for 45% of the total BTL debt

        Source – Central Bank Residential Mortgage Arrears and Repossessions Statistics: Q3 2017

        1. johnny

          this is just wrong,many these loans were sold for pennies and are providing extremely high and attractive IRR’s for offshore vulture funds who are not ‘penalizing’ existing or new borrowers with higher interest rates.

          “At end-September 2017, non-bank entities accounted for 5 per cent of the total stock of PDH mortgage accounts outstanding. For BTLs the proportion was higher at just under 9 per cent. Overall, non-bank entities accounted for just under 6 per cent of the total stock of residential mortgage accounts outstanding (PDH andBTL) at end-September 2017 (8 per cent in value terms).”
          same source !

          1. anne

            Tis pure & utter boo boo allright. The gouging of Irish mortgage holders continues no matter what hundreds of millions in profits the banks report.

          2. Andy

            you’re like a stumbling stalker.

            Who cares about vulture fund IRRs.
            They don’t provide any new money into the system so they don’t have any rates to penalize new borrowers.

        2. D

          As you are numerate, see can you follow my numbers below, or spot an error…

          in discussion 20k mortgages representing 28% of TSB mortgages.
          10% of mortgages, 72k are in arrears nationwide, meaning there are 720k of them nationally.
          TSB then have 70k mortgages on their books, meaning they only have 10% of the residential mortgage market, yet around 30% of the distressed ones.

          TSB are the second biggest residential mortgage lender in the country.

          Something is way off.

        3. Johnny

          Your numbers are wrong,you didn’t account for the billions of loan sales.
          KKR does actually,just for example,so wrong again.

    2. david

      Its not exactly like this
      These vulture funds will get these at a knock down price
      Its like sub prime
      A percentage that will pay a percentage who cannot then a few dead carts
      They will then sell off the ones they cannot get money back in a bundle
      They are ruthless and none of these people will be protected
      What I would love to know where was the due diligence when originally granting a mortgagee to people who could never of been able to afford them
      These mortgagees should be handed over to the state where the state owns these homes providing social housing
      Lets face it the banks still owe the taxpayer billions so why not take off them these mortgagees so any bargains will benefit the state not vultures

  5. david

    This is another Irish water for the KAPO regime of Leo the cheque is in the post varadka
    They must be living Ina parallel universe
    I have never met a crowd so out of touch with the people
    Its clear now that we have a government more fit for the famine era than a just society
    This is going to bite them back
    I listened to the fine Gael Muppet offered up on the Claire Byrne show who by the look on his face showed nothing but disdain for the peasants on low wages that are going to loose their homemade soon as these funds cash in on their assets
    This country has lost its soul

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