‘Absolute Niche’

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 Bartra Capital’s planned redevelopment of the former CBS school in Eblana Avenue, Dun Laoghaire; Director General of the Construction Industry Federation of Ireland Tom Parlon

Yesterday.

Minister for Housing Eoghan Murphy was speaking at a Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland and Department of Housing conference in Dublin when he defended the development of co-living apartment schemes.

These are blocks which allow for people to rent studio rooms – smaller than a disabled car parking space –  with communal facilities such as kitchens and laundries.

Planning permission is currently being sought for such apartment in Dun Laoghaire where the rent will be €1,300 a room.

Mr Murphy said the schemes are an “exciting” choice to young workers.

The matter was discussed on RTÉ Radio One’s Today with Seán O’Rourke this morning with Tom Parlon, director general of the Construction Industry Federation of Ireland, architect Orla Hegarty and GP and Dublin City councillor Paddy Smyth taking part in the discussion.

Mr Parlon said there is interest among CIF members in constructing these schemes for developers and claimed this is the type of housing people aged 21 to 35 are seeking.

These types of developments are attracting capital, he said.

He added: “It wouldn’t be for me but…I think it’s important that we understand that there’s an absolute niche for this and it is a global trend.”

Ms Hegarty warned if planning permission for these schemes is granted the value of land involved would effectively double and this would make it less economic to build much-needed apartments.

She also said people renting the rooms for €1,300 would have to be earning a lot to pay that and possibly forgo any chance of saving for a deposit.

Ms Hegarty also said that this type of housing is “not a sustainable solution” as the buildings are very “inflexible” for future accommodation.

She added that building these types of apartment blocks could lead to further sprawl and institutionalise students, people who are in their 20s and 30s and elderly people.

Ms Hegarty said when this kind of model is built in other cities “it is regulated and contained”.

She explained: “What has happened here is it being completely deregulated and there’s a proposal [not granted yet] for 700 bed spaces in an industrial estate in Tallaght – 200 of which are within this model. Now that isn’t appropriate development.”

Listen back in full here

Previously: Co-Living In Dun Laoghaire

48 thoughts on “‘Absolute Niche’

  1. Mr B

    If they think it’s grand for ‘young’ people, why not include a planning clause that caps the rent to a percentage of the average national income? 20% max (eg. 20% of €45,000 is €9000 per annum/€750 per month). Of course, that would never happen.

    1. Cian

      Take this a step further and place a maximum rent based on floor space for *all* rentals.

      1. Fact Checker

        Why not make it simpler and just regulate every single one of the hundreds of thousands of prices in the economy?

        No doubt there is a wise civil servant in Dublin who knows how much everything should cost.

  2. Fact Checker

    I lived in similar accommodation as a student for a year.

    Perhaps completely unrelated, but it I had a fantastic time!

      1. Fact Checker

        No, but it was a different time, different place, and much grottier than what seems to be on offer here.

        1. johnny

          Oh for FFS-thanks for another walk down memory lane, the library used be a van that visited the estate,pints were a pound, women knew there place.
          Kids were barefoot but danced gaily at the crossroads,who gives a flying fu…

          1. millie st meadowlark

            I remember the mobile library. Always caused a lot of excitement in my house.

          2. Fact Checker

            My grandmother (who has a good memory for this stuff) says shoeless children could not be found in Dublin after about 1940.

          3. johnny

            The “Christian” Brothers ran Carriglea Park Industrial School,Dún Laoghaire until it was closed in the 1950’s at which chidren were barefoot and badly clothed,despite adequate funds being available,your grandmother is a pathological liar who’s rose tinted glasses you appear to have borrowed.
            Fact Checker-spoofer more like.

          4. Fact Checker

            Well clearly it’s hard to see barefoot children behind high gates.

            She tells me barefoot children could be seen still on the street in the 1930s but that there were big charitable drives at the time to provide shoes to the poorest families.

          5. johnny

            Mon/Wen/Fri like a lot NY/LA types I go SoulCycle at 7am,other days week I run along the waterfront-in LA its Santa Monica Beach in NY its the West Side Park from Chelsea to Tribeca.This morning while running in relatively new kicks (Nike Vaporfly’s),I accidentally stepped in dog sh*t,there are numerous water fountains en route.Despite my best efforts to clean them,the smell just lingered and lingered,I ended up chucking them in the bin.
            Go find a skip and jump in Papi,your like dog s*it lingering under my posts, there’s a awful old man whiff off you, nothing say just desperate for any attention,it stinks:)

          6. Papi

            He shoots, he scores! You’re making this too easy, Johnathan.
            It’s not even your post, you tool!

  3. Col

    It’s not the size that’s the real problem, it’s the price!!
    Would be grand when you were starting out IF IT WAS AFFORDABLE!
    On a very good salary of €40k, half your wages would still be going on rent! I wasn’t earning that much until I was in my 30s.

    1. Cian

      I agree. But the only way to reduce rents in Dublin is to either increase supply (build more, build smaller, build taller, restrict AirBnB, build social housing, remove vacant housing, swap empty-nesters with bug houses with families in small) or reduce demand (make the regions more attractive, make “abroad” more attractive, reduce the number of immigrants) .

      1. Fact Checker

        It’s like tomatoes. I don’t like tomatoes, but someone is growing them and other people are purchasing them, at a price that is set on a market.

        I can only assume that this kind of housing is also, via a market, matching people who are willing to supply something with someone willing to buy it.

        1. Col

          Very few people are in desperate need of tomatoes.
          If the price went too high, people would find alternatives or just go without. The same does not apply to housing.

          1. Fact Checker

            There are houses to rent in Ireland for €500 a month.

            Most people will not be interested in co-living spaces. But the fact that a market price exists tell me people want to live them.

          2. Janet, I ate my avatar

            where in Ballymilesfromwork ? with crap transport etc, be realistic

          3. TheQ47

            Yes, Fact Checker, there are houses to rent in Ireland for €500 a month.
            But they’re not in Dublin, are they. and if someone has a job in Dublin, they’re not really likely to commute from Leitrim or Roscommon or Sligo, are they?.

          4. Fact Checker

            Presumably people living in Roscommon would also work there.

            Not everyone wants or needs to live in Dublin.

          5. Janet, I ate my avatar

            not every one has the luxury of there being work in their field outside of the tiny badly managed Capital

    2. max

      Its the HAP effect, rent is set at HAP + whatever a poor single fecker can afford to pay. Besides they are probably not even trying to aim them directly at individuals, their probably target market are all those people currently being put up in hotels at more than 1300 per month

      1. Qwerty123

        HAP has created a firm floor on rents. Nobody talks about it though. Local authorities are paying a fortune to landlords who get tax breaks for doing so.

    3. TheQ47

      My daughter lived in a place like this, at a cost of around €400 a month. That was student on-campus accommodation, though, and fine for a first year finding her way in a new city where she knew no-one. She’s not going back there for 2nd year.

      At €1300 a month, what’s being proposed here is not suitable, and unaffordable for most people in entry-level jobs. For example, a Clerical Officer in the Civil Service (the entry level position) earns €23,572 in their first year, or just over €1,964 per month. Even with 10 years experience in the job, with annual increments, they’d earn €32,638 p.a. or €2,719 p.m., so this rent would still be almost 50% of their gross salary (figures from https://www.forsa.ie/about-forsa/divisions/civil-service/civil-service-pay-scales/)

      1. Will Roberts

        In their view of the world, anybody that either doesn’t come from money or is a high earner can eat cake.

      2. Qwerty123

        Lol. These are not marketed at clerical officers. Google and Facebook types starting salaries and indeed ex pat commuters who would be more experienced, would be paid a lot more.

      3. Fact Checker

        These are clearly not aimed at people (like civil servants) who will live permanently in Dublin.

        It’s for people who need something more permanent than a hotel but less permanent than an apartment.

  4. Vanessa the Holy Face of Frilly Keane

    If I think about Co-Living / Community living I think it’s a great idea
    Ya know for students and new arrivals for jobs etc

    But what I’m seeing here is that Irish developers are exploiting the Co-Living model
    In a very creepy and cynical way
    That makes me want to object to it

    Like 400 yoyos a month is the most anyone should be paying for this type of accommodation in Dublin
    That Eblana Avenue development is as shameful as it is disgusting

    Christ t’night
    What have we become

    1. GiggidyGoo

      We haven’t become anything Vanessa. We have been made. Made serfs. There was a big hoo haw a few years ago when it emerged that some rich families were paying their home help (slaves) pittance. Well, if you look at it now, people may have jobs, but what they are left with is pittance after feeding the vultures and slaving in things like call centers. The have as much or less than those slaves i mentioned who at least had a roof over their head, and their food paid for.

      1. Vanessa the Holy Face of Frilly Keane

        True for ya Double G to the Oh

        I’ve often said that the first person a Paddy will try to rip off is another Paddy

        It’s in our DNA
        To always look for the easy mark

        This Eblana Scheme is a filthy take on a co-op living model
        It’s the perfect example of Irish Scumbaggery

        1. Janet, I ate my avatar

          I totally agree
          the rose tinted glasses are in smitherines,
          recently home hunting all I could think was Paris all is forgiven

  5. Dr.Fart MD

    this would be fine for student accom if they capped the possible rent. Murphy is just enabling Parlon by spinning the yarn that its less space for less rent. to pay 1300 p/m is not less rent. Murphy could do some actual work and make it impossible to charge so much for this amount of space. by introducing.. rules. but that would require .. work. and he’s been ran rings around by developers and has no negotiation skills are business acumen at all, so he’s just aggreeing to what they tell him. he’s a useless dope with no experience and it shows.

    1. Col

      I’d imagine, after two years of consistent failure, he wants to be able to say “See, more homes are being built than last year”.
      And if you cram 6 or 7 of these into the space usually occupied by one apartment, then your numbers are higher.

      1. Dr.Fart MD

        he’s absolutely doing that. the amount of work they go thru to look like theyre doin work is more work than actual work that they do do.

  6. Joe

    Eoghan Murphy and Fine Gael are now tenement builders! What next? Two to a bed in public hospitals?

  7. iram

    I’ve lived in places like this in France. It wasn’t so bad but you wouldn’t want to be there for a long time.
    The place I was in was €400 p/m, max stay of 2 years and it was only available to people under 30.

    1. Dr.Fart MD

      yea, because they imposed actual rules to make it work. Whereas the likes of Murphy gets told the rules by private developers, and then he tried to make it sound appealing to the public. utterly useless and dangerous. he’s doing untold damage to the country. He also said he’ll change rules to allow sky scrapers to fit in more housing, but again, won’t be his decision what goes in to the building. He should say you can build X amount in height if you include X amount of varied types of housing. Instead they’ll just put what they want in it, luxury apts. and hotels.

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