56 thoughts on “De Wednesday Papers

  1. f_lawless

    The really story of what happened at Tiananmen Square is probably very different from what we’re led to believe in the West. More myth making. British-Australian diplomat, Gregory Clark, details a very different version: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2014/06/03/commentary/world-commentary/really-happened-tiananmen/

    According to the article, there was no evidence of a massacre of “100s if not 1000’s of protestors” by Chinese troops and the soldiers who did fire on the protestors did so only after protestors had incinerated dozens of soldiers inside buses and strung up their charred corpses on overpasses

        1. f_lawless

          well I hope your smug comment brought you some sense of reassurance, maybe it’s best you stay in your safe place. I guess if you feel the urge to dismiss the opinion of British-Australian diplomat based in Asia the last 40 years, with a lazy “tinfoil hat” cliche, you probably don’t have much of a capacity for free-thinking anyway, and these kinds of news items are too upsetting to consider ;)

      1. rotide

        “There’s no doubt that many people were killed by the army that night around Tianemen square”
        By a journalist who was there.

        That’s that little conspiracy done then.

        1. f_lawless

          Starting to wonder if there’s a bit of the old ‘Duning-Kruger effect’ going on with you!
          The key point made in the article is that the narrative which is reinforced in Western media of the defenceless, peaceful protestors standing up to the military only to be shot down in an unprovoked attack is not an accurate portrayal of events when the reality is that it was the protestors who first escalated the situation by ttacking soldiers with petrol bombs, incinerating dozens and stringing up charred bodies on overpasses.

          1. rotide

            I’m starting to think you should look up what the Dunning Kruger effect is. I certainly do not think I am an expert in these matters, it’s more you that seems to get it wrong

            First you say

            “there was no evidence of a massacre of “100s if not 1000’s of protestors” by Chinese troops”

            Then you post an article that says
            “There’s no doubt that many people were killed by the army that night around Tianemen square”

            Make up your mind there pal.

          2. f_lawless

            I’ll concede that the way I worded my original comment might lead to a misunderstanding but I would have thought it’s clear from reading the article that the author says while many may have been killed, it was not on the scale of ‘100’s if not 1000s’ as was being reported in Western media.
            Right from the start he says:
            “the myth of a June 4, 1989, Tiananmen Square massacre, with talk of hundreds if not thousands of protesting students mowed down by military machine guns.”
            but then goes on to qualify that by saying yes, the soldiers did open fire on the protestors.

    1. Cian

      I’m not sure that offers conclusive proof. it is a different side of the story.

      However it doesn’t sound like a plausible narrative (to me). The peace-loving soldiers were attacked by the students with petrol bombs. A string of busses were in flames and dozens of soldiers killed. Then the fires burnt out (I’m assuming that if the fire-brigade were involved then the bodies would have been recovered by the authorities) and then cooled enough for the students to enter the shells, take out the bodies and, hang them on overpasses…. and all this happened before the soldiers decided to start shooting back?

      The truth, link in most thing, most likely lies somewhere in between.

      1. f_lawless

        “peace-loving soldiers “ that’s a bit hyperbolic, where did you get that from?

        I take your point that we can’t be entirely sure of the facts but I think you’re going off on your own tangent too much there about the fire brigade etc. I’m just saying that the informed opinion of that diplomat is that there was no shooting by soldiers until after the burning of bodies by protesters. I’m not assuming it all happened in the blink of an eye or trying to excuse the actions of the soldiers, it’s just that this information gives greater context to how events unfolded

        1. Cian

          I’ve just re-read that article and it says:
          “Yes, there was something close to a massacre in those streets, with some of the units originally sent to clear the square of students turning their guns wildly on the crowds that had tried to block their approach. ”

          which is at odds with your initial comment was no evidence of a massacre of “100s if not 1000’s of protestors” by Chinese troops

          You also say the soldiers who did fire on the protestors did so only after protestors had incinerated dozens of soldiers inside buses and strung up their charred corpses on overpasses. which isn’t supported by the article either. The first part is (burning busses), the second (strung-up corpses) isn’t.

          Either way, it is interesting to see another side of the story.

          1. f_lawless

            I accept I could have worded it better eg “no evidence of a massacre on the scale of “100s if not 1000’s of protestors” by Chinese troops”
            From the article:
            “the myth of a June 4, 1989, Tiananmen Square massacre, with talk of hundreds if not thousands of protesting students mowed down by military machine guns.”

            At the risk of sounding pedantic, the author DOES clearly imply he’s of the opinion that the stringing up corpses happened before the shooting by soldiers:

            “To date the world seems to have assumed that those buses were fired by the crowds after the soldiers had started shooting. In fact it was the reverse — that the crowds attacked the buses as they entered Beijing, incinerating dozens of soldiers inside, and only then did the shooting begin. Here too we do need not go far to find the evidence — in the not publicized photos of soldiers with horrible burns seeking shelter in nearby houses, and reports of charred corpses being strung from overpasses.”…
            …”Other strange details later to emerge included a report that Reuters, the British new agency, refused to publish a photo of a charred corpse strung up under an overpass — a photo that would have done much to explain what had happened”

    2. Cian

      The more of this “japantime” article I read the less I like it.

      The author says “And we now discover that the widely distributed photo of Tankman — the lone student standing before a row of army tanks and heavily publicised as showing brave defiance against a cruel regime — was in fact taken the day after Tiananmen events, and the tanks were moving away from, and not into, Tiananmen Square.”

      But the fact this was taken the day after the (alleged) massacre and that the tanks were leaving Tiananmen was never in question.

  2. GiggidyGoo

    Troughmeisters are doing it for themselves. Philip Lane taking care of his banker mateys. Funny how these types always have something to say when they get top table at the trough.

  3. MaryLou's ArmaLite

    Delighted for Dunne and Killilea, couldn’t happen to more deserving people.

  4. SOQ

    Given how unpopular Trump is in Britain, especially what he said about the NHS, I kind of wonder if an endorsement from him would be a good thing? Then again Farage believes Britain should move to a private health system anyways.

    @lesbydonkeys are at it again of course.

    1. eoin

      Poor Brits. Do they believe Trump promising a “phenomenal” trade deal? Just six months ago, Trump boasted about an “incredible” trade deal with China. Now look at them, hundreds of billions of new tariffs and blacklisting Chinese tech companies. And Trump can’t even keep civil terms with his next door neighbours Canada and, especially, Mexico.

      Chlorinated chicken and unreliable gas-guzzling cars, that’s your future with the US, Britain. Sorry for you.

      1. MaryLou's ArmaLite

        China and the US were on the home straight of completing a trade deal when China decided to renege on a significant amount of what was agreed. Then Trump started the trade war.

        You could say that was an overreaction, most would agree, but it was China’s reneging that kicked it all off.

  5. Rump

    President Twee vomits his virtue all over the examiner this morning, pushing the disgraced conspiracy theory that Carbon Dioxide emissions are destroying the planet.

    Imagine having the neck to criticize a man who made his fortune before getting elected to office instead of – you know – gouging at the trough after election like the rest of them.

    Trump doesn’t personally draw down his presidential salary. What does Higgins do with his?

    1. Cian

      And he does take the salary – he just redistributes it to a ‘worthy’ cause.

      I wonder if he’ll continue to do this with his pension? or once he’s out of the White House will he keep it?

  6. eoin

    “Pamela Benson, took up her role as head of legal services [at Tusla] permanently in 2015. In that year, [her brother, the barrister] Mr Benson received €4,034 in fees from the child and family agency…Jim Benson BL received €53,096, €50,201, and €77,397 for 2016, 2017, and 2018 respectively…Questions about any role Ms Benson may have had in nominating her brother or if any policy exists on retaining the services of relatives were not addressed [in a Tusla statement to the Examiner].”

    More sleaze at the disgraced state childrens agency, Tusla. Mick Clifford exposes who she’s been selecting and engaging her brother, paying more than €180,000 of our money to him over three years.

  7. ReproBertie

    Hey eoin, now that you’re back, did you find anything to back up your statement yesterday about Katie Taylor saying she wouldn’t fight in Ireland for security reasons? You seemed to think it was a big deal so I presume you have something to show us.

    Otherwise you’d be withdrawing the comment, right?

      1. ReproBertie

        So you can’t back it up. You’ll be withdrawing your libellous comment then, right?

      1. ReproBertie

        Not Katie then and not a representation of anything Katie said.

        We can expect a withdrawal then eoin, right?

        1. Cian

          He wasn’t far off – if that article is correct.

          “Boxing champion Katie Taylor was unlikely to fight in Ireland because of serious security concerns following a murder at a weigh-in event, her manager said recently.”

          It is not unusual to take a quote from a manager as being representative of the person’s views.

          1. ReproBertie

            Taylor’s manager Brian Peters recently told the Irish Daily Star: “Katie would love to fight in Ireland, (promoter) Eddie (Hearn) would, I’d love to have a fight here.

            That’s the exact opposite of what eoin claims Katie said. Eoin posted his lies on the day she returned as undisputed Lightweight Champion of the World as a snide dig at her. It was a pathetic act of begrudgery and he should do the decent thing and withdraw them.

          2. ReproBertie

            “can you imagine, Mick McCarthy or James McClean coming out to say “we’re not going to hold any more Republic of Ireland soccer internationals in Ireland anymore because of significant security concerns”. There’d be outrage at the suggestion our country was so dangerous. And yet, Katie Taylor says it and we all pretend it’s grand. Well, it’s not grand.” – that’s what eoin posted. Katie said no such thing. Katie’s manager said no such thing. eoin lied.

          3. Cian

            “There’d be outrage at the suggestion our country was so dangerous. ”

            Wait a minute.

            How many football players were shot during a pre-match kickabout (or whatever the football equivalent to a boxing weigh-in is)? If football players were being gunned down then yes, I could see football players (or their managers) saying that there wouldn’t be playing in Ireland again.

    1. rotide

      First off, eoin doesn’t bother replying to anyone who questions his questions

      Secondly, eoin showed he hasn’t the first notion about boxing in Ireland or the World. There’s actually a fairly good story and many questions to be asked about MTK (the boxing promoters involved in the fight that had the weigh in shot up, not to mention nearly every boxing promotion in ireland) and their connection to the kinehans.

      eoin ignored this and went straight for ‘SURE DIDNT HER DAD GET SHOT, SHE MUST BE A GANGSTER”

  8. eoin

    Amazed that RTE Prime Time had the cojones to doorstep FG TD Alan Farrell who sued for compo after a shunt in stationary traffic. He was apparently seeking €15k, and the judge awarded him €2,500. Papers seen by RTE showed Alan was claiming whiplash injuries for 18 months but the judge said he only suffered injuries for three months. Alan also claimed over a thousand for damage to his car. Alan was seeking €180 for paint and €600 for labour as part of the bill to “repair” his car. Photos in the car appeared to show no damage.

    When approached by an RTE presenter and camera crew, Alan had no comment at all on the matter. In his dark glasses and stony silence, he painted the epitome of sleaze.

    Last night’s doorstepping was particularly amazing because RTE has invited Alan Farrell onto its programmes AFTER the compo hearing, to hold forth on insurance costs and fraud.


    1. Vanessa the Holy Face of Frilly Keane

      D’ya know what would be an interesting exploration Eoin

      Who FG HQ have already lined up on the QT for Alan and Maria’s seats

      Also interesting that ( Senator) Catherine Noone was with Ministers’ Charlie F, Richard the Bruton and Finian McWindy in Coolock yesterday don’t you think?

      Lads, Note It – I’m calling a September election GE’19

        1. millie st murderlark

          I’ll be winning the Lotto. Everyone’s fave loose cannon, Alan Kelly, shall be Taoiseach. Frances Fitz will clone herself and manage to sit in both the EU and in the Dail, and she’ll try a sneaky go at the Seannad too.

          Prove me wrong.

        2. Vanessa the Holy Face of Frilly Keane

          Another Rainbow (ish) Government

          If the confidence and supply sides have any cop at all they’ll run to the people Now.

          If the 24th of May proved anything it proved that the Shinners can’t get their election strategy together, and they are allergic to transfers

          They absolutely didn’t want a Returning Officer announcing it to the public, so now you know why they didn’t want a Returning Officer (EU South) confirming it and announcing it to the Public.

          It also proved that the Voter wants Big Party Old School Same’oh Same’oh, and that the squabbles of far left collectives and Indos haven’t a clue

          They’re are at least 30 seats up for the taking
          Right now.
          Plus the four recently vacated

          Sum’ting else
          Betcha Matt Carthy runs in the General

          1. Cian

            Hmm… if the recent elections are any indicator:
            – SF will lose out to the Greens.
            – if FG can hold their numbers we get another 4 years of FG-led gov. With either FF “support and confidence” or a Green/Labour minority.
            – if FF get a bounce it will be 4 years of FF-led gov….if they can convince anyone to support them?

            plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

            *oh and Millie gets a Match 3+bonus!!

  9. eoin

    A 15-minute meeting between Leo and Trump in a conference room at Shannon Airport while a group of diddley-dees entertain Melania? Have some respect, man, we’re not Haiti.

    Meanwhile, the Indo reports

    “[community rep] said at the information meeting Gardai told residents that if silage had to be cut special passes could be obtained for those conducting silage in the area”

    Same applies to spreading manure.

    Since when do Gardai get involved in these matters. Surely, the Garda remit ends at Trump’s security.

  10. eoin

    Squeaky bums at our national center of hazing excellence today.

    Trump wants Ireland to cut ties with the Chinese tech/mobile phone company Huawei.

    But Huawei is pumping millions into Trinity.

    Major universities in the US and UK (where Huawei hasn’t been blacklisted yet) have cut ties with Huawei which has been pouring in money under the guise of “research”.

    Where stands Ireland’s top-ranked (it’s still somewhere in the top 200, right?) university


    1. ReproBertie

      Just waiting for you to withdraw the lies you posted to damage Katie’s reputation eoin.

    2. SOQ

      Would UCD not be more the Computer Science uni rather than Trinity? I am just asking as I don’t know.

      1. eoin

        The allegation SOQ, is, the “research” is really just a ruse to spy. Probably slightly richer pickings at Trinity. Bet the Chinese haven’t even heard of “HIV butter”.

  11. millie st murderlark

    For all you anti vaxxers out there:

    13-month-old admitted to intensive care after parents influenced by anti-vaccine material online https://jrnl.ie/4668594

    This is what your unproven, unfiltered bulls**t does to children, this is the risk you take.

      1. millie st murderlark

        I didn’t. Just went looking for it and I can’t seem to find it either. I know I left that comment on one of the papers pages over the weekend, but I can’t see a reply from you there.


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