And in other news …
Climate change activists chain themselves to what they think is the HQ of power giant Drax in the City of London
But Drax moved a year ago and the office is now home to one of the leading suppliers of renewable energy.
Next week, Broadsheets very own Tommy Robinson will discuss other groups of people he also hates.
“It’s not just myself and the Irish, heh, heh, heh!” he cries, thoroughly alone in his bedsit.
Treasa
Heh,heh,heh.
some old quare
Daily Mail: Leo has clashed with Boris- let’s hope an aeroplane never lands on a Luas or their angle would be ‘Luas crashes into Aeroplane’.
Formerly known as @ireland.com
Brexit and Boris – wow!! So, it seems that 17.4M Brits voted for a no deal Brexit. That escalated quickly. It appears that Scottish and Welsh First Ministers are competent and intelligent but the British PM is anything but. A hard Brexit will mean the exit of Scotland, then NI, possibly Wales.
some old quare
Although I have yet to hear it being said- I sometimes wonder if there is not an element within English nationalism who thinks that England would be better off going it alone. It is where most of the UK wealth is concentrated after all.
Charger Salmons
I think you’ll find the vast majority of English people would be perfectly happy with the break-up of the union.
If you lot want the cesspit that is Northern Ireland you’re welcome to it.
Likewise the whiney Scots.
Both are a huge drain on England’s resources where the majority of the UK’s population produces most of the wealth.
The Welsh huff and puff a bit but as in their Brexit vote and BoJo’s popularity there they always were the smartest of the other regions in understanding the balance of power.
Unfortunately when faced with the hey lads hey Scotland and NI always follow the Irish in bottling it.
Lisbon 2. Scots IndyRef. The collapse of the NI Assembly.
The troika of Celtic cowardice.
Papi
Chagrin Slaloms seems to be all over the place lately. Is it the Massively Fat Fingers or delirium tremens? We may never care.
B9Com From No
Hahaha
PMSL
Toe Up
Then it will be time to say toodle-pip to the north, followed by the midlands, until only the Tory heartlands are left.
deluded
Don’t wonder; I know an ardent Brexiteer who says that many of his compatriots are sick of the colonies and our ungrateful attitude!
We already know how they have whitewashed their own history for themselves so it’s quite logical.
After Oct 31st they can twist the screws until their errant subjects squeal for mercy.
deluded
… haha I just read Sammon’s spiel below.
Anyway, the line they are spinning is that the Brexiteers are national separatists (now that the number of royal bootlickers abroad have been counted and found wanting)
GiggidyGoo
Boris must be considering going into the Farmers Mart business selling live animals. I can almost hear his spiel now. “Get your cock and pullet”
Charger Salmons
I think you’ll find the vast majority of English people would be perfectly happy with the break-up of the Union.
If you lot want the cesspit that is Northern Ireland you’re welcome to it.
Likewise the whiney Scots.
Both are a huge drain on England’s resources where the majority of the UK’s population produces most of the wealth.
The Welsh huff and puff a bit but as in their Brexit vote and BoJo’s popularity there they always were the smartest of the other regions in understanding the balance of power.
Unfortunately when faced with any difficult decision Scotland and NI always follow the Irish in bottling it.
Lisbon 2. Scots IndyRef. The collapse of the NI Assembly.
The troika of Celtic cowardice so to speak.
GiggidyGoo
I think you’ll find that the English people are generally lacking in knowledge and education about the members of the UK. You’ll probably find too that the PIN numbers of many English is 1966. Sure no-one would guess that now, would they?
Wytch Farm I’m sure can supply the oil requisites of England (not), while Scotland could supply their own, and sell to the English.
Of course, all of those ‘English’ stalwart companies would provide 100% employment. You know, like, Toyota, Nissan, TATA (owners of Land Rover), British (sorry, Indian) Steel. All of which, of course, are either closing or threatening to close/reduce footprint)
Charger Salmons
You mean like Diageo ?
Baby.Candy.Take.
Formerly known as @ireland.com
Ireland doesn’t think there is an old empire waiting to do business with it. Our education system is better than that, unlike one I can think of. Eton doesn’t seem to be capable of educating, these days.
Charger Salmons
Here’s your first exam question of the day.
How many Irish universities appear in every list of the world’s top 100 universities ?
Take your time now but if you need a clue the answer is somewhere between none and zero.
Question two – how many UK universities appear in the world’s top 10 universities ?
Google is your friend.
Heh x 3 ( another clue )
Brother Barnabas
actually, charger, 4 of the top 10 universities in the world are in the UK
5. Oxford
6. Cambridge
8. ICL
10. UCL
you have to wonder, though, how brexit might affect that when you consider that only one of the most senior academics in those four institutions are actually from the UK:
Oxford – Louise Richardson (Irish)
Cambridge – Stephen Toope (Canadian)
Imperial – Alice Gast (American)
UCL – Michael Arthur (English)
Charger Salmons
It depends which rankings you look at.
I generally go with the THE but hey, I’m happy to take a fourth. http://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2019/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats
As you know Ireland slipped out of the top 100 a while back and each year slides further and further down the rankings.
TCD currently at 120th nestling just below the University of York, a city in the North of England with a population a sixth of the size of Dublin.
GiggidyGoo
Ah yes, but are Diageo threatening to pull out of Ireland? Howzat?
eoin
Namby-pamby nimby Pat Kenny is to make “a good donation” to the unidentified organisers [it’s not Pat himself, is it?!] of legal proceedings about a housing development in Dalkey; they’re now going to the High Court to overturn the decision of An Bord Pleanala to allow much needed housing to be built on a site adjacent to Pat’s pile. This time round, Pat is objecting to the development on health and safety grounds. He previously objected to the drone survey on privacy grounds. His original objection to the development was about “loss of light” to his property, “In my opinion, the proposed development by the applicant is not in compliance with the proper planning and sustainable development of the area”. Seems Pat’s objections change every day.
Selfish old (72) goat.
eoin
At the High Court yesterday, the DPP confirmed the Indo was stumping up €100,000 for the cost of the rape trial that collapsed last November after the Indo published an article which compromised the trial.
The DPP has also reportedly withdrawn contempt proceedings against Fionnan Sheahan and Nicola Anderson, however, the Indo itself is still in for a fine which will be set by Judge O’Regan later today. Contrary to what the Indo’s barrister claims, €100,000 is not the absolute upper limit.
The Judge appeared to be impressed with the diligence of both Fionnan and Nicola, and it was the INM solicitor who wrongly gave the article the all-clear. So Fionnan and Nicola both escape a criminal conviction. Which contrasts with the conviction and fine for the editor of the Irish Daily Mail earlier this month.
Maybe Cian Ferriter SC might get it now, the upper limit for contempt is NOT €100,000. In fact, in this case, the Judge set a base of €175,000 before giving the Indo a discount of €64,000 for various mitigations.
That draws a line under that.
My thoughts though with the alleged victim in the alleged rape. Last November was the THIRD time she had endured a trial, only to see the trial collapse when the Indo published the article. She will now endure a FOURTH trial at the end of this year. The alleged perpetrator denies rape. All the parties retain anonymity at this stage of proceedings.
Bodger
Thanks, eoin.
martco
“If you lot want the cesspit that is Northern Ireland you’re welcome to it”
er, no, you made your own bed so lie in it!
(I do believe this is actually one of the card tricks being attempted here btw)
Charger Salmons
What ?
The Irish don’t want a united Ireland ?
Too much like hard work ?
Let Blighty do the heavy lifting ?
Prefer to sit on a barstool and whinge about it instead ?
Well blow me down with a feather.
Who’da thunk it ?
Heh, heh, heh.
GiggidyGoo
You sure are a laugh a month.
tee hee
martco
@charger
your nasty plantation project is spent, long gone, it failed near 100 years ago
so you can keep on doing your own heavy lifting there
why would we want your waste?
Charger Salmons
No wonder The Wolfe Tones struggle to get a gig these days.
Heh, heh, heh.
Charger Salmons
Up the Shinners !
By Mary Lou ” Gerry was never in the IRA ” McDonald.
ah now @charger maybe you’re seeing some light after all.
old assumptions & trope, it’s a typical Tory error….you’re talking to a different generation as are Bojo the Clown & Rees-1879. people who are already dead or heading for the exit. neither me nor my kids have any interest in the Wolfe Tones, or norniron, Sinn Fein or your pals the Ulster Taleban. we’re well ahead of all that now I think as a country. If part of your Tory fundamentalist vision under all of this is pulling a card trick to tug some sort of 32 county heartstring & manipulate an abandonment of the expensive & very troubled plantation project ye constructed then you’re gonna be very disappointed.
Keep it thanks & enjoy your new Victorian life sunshine. no one left to rape & pillage anymore however so,
like, good luck with all that. heh x3
Cathal
Sold out for August, maybe you can stand outside and hope someone leaves the door open , you’ll be getting used to that soon.
Cian
What ?
The British don’t want a united Kingdom?
Too much like hard work ?
…
Charger Salmons
Talking of heh, heh, heh.
Jacob Rees-Mogg driving a dodgem car.
Mary Robinson’s “good friend” Princess Heya is back in the High Court in London this morning. There is restricted reporting of the case and media were kicked out yesterday. However, the Judge has allowed some details to be reported. The wife of the dictator of Dubai (the crap-hole the size of Leitrim in the Middle East ruled by Mo McToom and his henchmen and which is the base of the Kinahan drug trafficking organisation), is seeking three things (1) custody of her two kids which are with her in London (2) a non-molestation order and (3) a forced marriage protection order.
There’s no real detail, but CNN reports (3) would prevent a wife being forced to travel abroad.
The Dubai dictator owns several stables in Ireland where he is feted as a horsing hero. Dubai Duty Free is a private company but is closely linked to Mo.
eoin
Our neighbouring jurisdiction continues its transformation into a police state. At present their “security services” are allowed mass surveillance on citizens (sorry, citizen is for republic, what is it you have in a monarchy? subjects? peasants?).
“Liberty’s lawyers said the data gathered by the security services and other agencies – under warrants granted by a judge or the home secretary – can include:
Intimate data, including an individual’s internet browsing history
The apps users have downloaded to their phone
Usernames and passwords
Cell site data that can pin-point a person’s location at a given time”
Not just terrorists and tourists, the list of organisations with blanket access to your electronic records in the UK includes the tax people, the HMRC and even some NHS trusts. They’ve been doing it for years, but it was Edward Snowden’s whistleblowing which forced the UK to put the surveillance on a legislative footing.
Has the Department of Housing stopped published homeless figures? There were over 10,000 in hotels, b&bs, co living hubs etc in May 2019, what was the position in June? Maybe if the galoot from Ranelagh can get his tongue out of his plate-faced squeeze’s throat for five minutes, he might check on the figures.
Charger Salmons
This year’s net immigration figures should be tasty too.
Treasa
Heh,heh,heh.
eoin
34,000 jobs at risk in the Republic (population 4.9m) from no-deal Brexit says Central Bank
…never believe your own press releases Charger…sounds very like those PM May believed when she squandered a Tory majority by calling an unnecessary general election…exit stage right, followed by the DUP…
Charger Salmons
May didn’t have Nigel Farage snapping at her heels.
Tory-BXP electoral pact.
Mark my words.
Formerly known as @ireland.com
I can’t wait to see that election. The Little Englanders will win. Boris is the last PM of the UK.
Treasa
Heh,heh,heh?
Treasa
Heh,heh,heh.
Listrade
Probably time for a “Previously on Season One of Brexit”. Can’t say this enough: ignore the papers. Depending on your chosen side: Varadkar was firm or Boris was firm or there was an argument or there was a High Noon stand off with fingers twitching over pistols. Varadkar’s statement says the discussion was “warm”. Diplomatic speak for discussing contentious issues without resorting to arguments.
The current position is EU/IRE say that the Withdrawal agreement is not up for re discussion, Boris says that it’s been rejected by parliament 3 times, so it clearly doesn’t have support. Key issue in all of this is the Backstop.
In short, the backstop is contentious because of the DUP. EU,IRE and UK all agree to no hard border. Absolutely all on the same page. So they came up with a backstop for Northern Ireland. DUP says NO and May needs DUP. So what does May do? Says to EU, “rather than just applying the backstop to NI, apply it to whole of UK.” EU and IRE say “Grand so.” May signs and Parliament says, “WTF?”
Why is the Backstop contentious? Depends who you ask. For hard brexiteers it’s because it doesn’t mean hard brexit. But it was universally rejected by Parliament, not just the hard liners. The problem is a pretty reasonable one which is a lack of time lines and specifics in some areas. You can track via votes and suggestions in Parliament where the vast majority of MPs lie in their views. Really all the backstop does is kick the can down the road. It means more discussions, more negotiations, more posturing, more division and probably, still no deal.
So UK wants to change the Backstop.
EU/IRE says No. Not negotiable. But the issue is the backstop isn’t law. So that stance is ok we had the guarantee of the backstop or similar measures. We are asking GB and NI to commit to a long term deal without any effective transition. Our current stance is we won’t negotiate. The Withdrawal agreement is it.
Pick your side as to who is acting the boo boo. I’m on the side of all parties involved being unreasonable and playing games at the expense of the people they are supposedly representing/protecting. This is thing every loony leftie has warned about (alright, maybe just me). This is privileged elites in power, their only interest is their own political careers and “legacy”. They’re more interested in not being seen as a chicken or weak rather than the greater good. And the greater good is us. Us and our friends and relatives in the North. Us and our friends and relatives in GB.
The UK decided to leave the EU. Whatever. I’m past that. I’m past the history of it. I’m past the finger pointing. This has been on the agenda as a potential issue for over 10 years. The EU had no preparations for exiting it’s membership. It built a complicated mechanism of governance and commerce and never took the time to think about how it could be unpicked. It could be any number of reasons a member may wish to leave. But they chose to never put together an exit plan. Basic governance. Basic risk management.
Instead they chose the position that it was the UK’s issue and so the EU holds all the cards. And it is and they do. But that’s the politician’s view. That was ok for a while until it became apparent that we were getting nowhere and we had a bunch of politicians who didn’t want to be seen to blink and now we’re racing to a cliff edge. Egos have brought this whole thing down. British, Irish and EU egos. Political egos feeding snippets into the media so that all of us who will probably be affected point and shout at a different group of people who will probably be affected waving the flags of our chosen political elite.
The backstop clearly isn’t going to work. It needs to be renegotiated. That means EU/IRE are going to have to bite the bullet and let Boris be seen as victorious. We could keep up the charade and hope that his game is to go to election and get rid of the DUP. But do we want to wait? Do we want to test?
There’s things you can do via a diplomatic route that saves face for everyone. The door is slightly open “alternative solutions” is thrown in subtly every now and again. But we are expecting the UK to come up with all the answers and present them as an alternative. Have a team on the QT looking at alternatives and what works, what might need time and investment (we can then put a date into the backstop), what can be done temporarily, what needs a different UK/IRE treaty or agreement.
We can still make this whole thing as painless as possible. We just have to accept it really is happening. We’re going to have to let Boris claim a victory. I’d rather have Boris writing himself into history as the next Churchill and know that my friends and relatives are as minimally impacted as possible, than keep up the pissing contest knowing people are going to suffer.
Papi
+all the 1’s
Formerly known as @ireland.com
“The UK decided to leave the EU. Whatever. I’m past that. I’m past the history of it. I’m past the finger pointing. This has been on the agenda as a potential issue for over 10 years. The EU had no preparations for exiting it’s membership. It built a complicated mechanism of governance and commerce and never took the time to think about how it could be unpicked. It could be any number of reasons a member may wish to leave. But they chose to never put together an exit plan. Basic governance. Basic risk management.”
Wrong, The EU had Article 50 – the British chose to invoke it early, rather than invoke it after the negotiations. Another British blunder. Of course, it is the EU’s fault. Have you noticed it is always the EU’s (or someone else’s fault).
The backstop is there because of the Good Friday Agreement. You don’t mention that. The GFA requires that the border has no physical controls. It is not negotiable. Boris voted for the current withdrawal agreement. It was OK then, what has changed? The British seem to have forgotten about the Troubles – it is almost as if they don’t know anything about, or care about the north of Ireland.
The British partitioned Ireland against the democratic vote of the Irish people. They have to live with the consequences. The EU understands the GFA and will not be budging.
Treasa
Quite the whiff of semtex of this comment.
Formerly known as @ireland.com
Not really. I have heard enough “democratic will of the people” from Brexiteers, when it suits them.
Listrade
“The British partitioned Ireland against the democratic vote of the Irish people. They have to live with the consequences.”
Part of the referendum on accepting the GFA was accepting that NI was British Territory. Seems Boris may not be the only one not understanding the GFA. However, those consequences affect us and our friends and our neighbours. It means we have to live with the consequences too. So how about we find a path to minimise those consequences?
The reason I don’t mention it here is because I’ve mentioned it several times in the past. In detail. Had debates on it with people, so i didn’t want to rehash those arguments. However, GFA isn’t at risk. Common Travel Area deals with all that. CTA will remain in force, that is absolute. That is allowed under Protocol 20 to the Treaty on European Union. I’m sure you’ve read that too as means of forming your opinions. You didn’t mention it. You waved the GFA like everyone else does, but ignore the rest. Because it’s emotive and convenient, but based on ignorance.
“Wrong, The EU had Article 50”
2 things. I’m past the balls-up the UK made. I can’t be bothered with that any more because we need a solution. Triggering Article 50 was stupid. But it was done and we all have to deal with it. Second, Article 50 is the clause under which you leave. It is a couple of paragraphs. IT IS NOT AN EXIT PLAN. There is a difference. The EU knew there would be a vote in the UK as we all did. They chose to hope (as we all did) that the vote would be remain. But they utterly messed up in not laying out a plan for exiting the EU.
That is basic. I don’t enter any business contract without an exit plan. Whether it’s millions or thousands. I want a plan to minimise risk for both parties if it doesn’t work out. That’s not saying we go into it expecting it to fail, but we have a cushion and reassurance for both parties that if, for whatever reason, we have to end the contract, it’ll be managed.
Two paragraphs is not an exit plan. So that’s my frustration with the EU. They had no plan and put the entire emphasis on the UK to come up with the plan. Politically and technically, fine. Go for it. Morally? For the greater good? Nah. And now we are where we are.
If May hadn’t extended the backstop to the whole of the UK and left it at NI, we may actually have a better chance. It’s possible that she wouldn’t have needed the DUP and would have had support for the Withdrawal Agreement across parliament. She’d have lost some hard liners, but gained some from other parties. We’ll never know.
Formerly known as @ireland.com
“If May hadn’t extended the backstop to the whole of the UK and left it at NI, we may actually have a better chance.”
So, it is the British who chose the current mess. They could resolve this, without expecting the EU to change anything.
Mark Francois, the ERG’s deputy chairman, was very explicit about this in a recent BBC interview. “If there were any attempt to revive the withdrawal agreement, even without the backstop”, he insisted, “the ERG would vote against it”.
So, the backstop is just one of a number of issues. They like to have one that they can blame on those pesky Irish and Europeans.
Listrade
Yes it is May’s mess. Yes they are blaming us and the EU. But we and the EU are saying that there is no more negotiating on the Backstop (the one that applies to the whole of the UK and not just NI).
Think about that for second like a rational person. We probably had a good arrangement with NI Backstop. DUP got wind of it and May panicked and decided to apply Backstop to UK. UK has made it absolutely clear that isn’t going to be acceptable. 3 times they’ve rejected it.
So we now have an issue where there’ll be nothing. No backstop, nothing. But we’re still saying we won’t renegotiate a deal we know is bad and we know isn’t a formal deal and has no legal standing. Our only caveat is that the UK should come up with alternatives.
I’m sorry, but I don’t think that’s reasonable or in our own best interests. As much as I dislike Tories and Brexiteers, I actually think they have a point on this. The clearest option is to go back to the draft and have the Backstop NI only. Boris would loose the DUP, but possibly gain a majority vote combining the rest of the Tories (he’d do the Churchill and say he’d won) and some of the Labour heads who are pro-Brexit. Possibly.
But we have an impasse because we are saying no negotiation, are not helping the UK come to a more palatable arrangement they can sell and do not want to now show weakness or giving in to Boris.
So yes, you’re right, May, the Tories, everyone messed up. But that mess affects us. Our current political posturing means the worst possible case for us, but we’re hoping Boris blinks first. How likely do you think that is? There is a solution. But it requires us and the EU to let Boris have a victory. And it saddens me that it seems people and politicians are prepared to sacrifice the livelihoods and quality of life of thousands of their friends and relatives for no reason other than tribal politics.
ReproBertie
“But we have an impasse because we are saying no negotiation,”
No negotiation of the WA was a condition of the October 31st extension.
some old quare
I am no legal eagle but the evidence speaks for itself. The backstop has caused absolute chaos in the HP and has already brought down one prime minister.
The plain fact is, GB cannot unilaterally leave the EU without conceding to the democratic mandate of the people of Northern Ireland who wish to remain.
As for accepting that it is happening- well half of Britain don’t so why should we? It will go a people’s vote because the only alternative is to suspend parliament which would be an absolute abuse of power- and is just not going to happen.
dav
“No negotiation of the WA was a condition of the October 31st extension.”
That doesn’t matter, we must cave in to the british demands no matter how unreasonable, because we are an economy, not a country.
Listrade
@Repro. I know. I get it. But my point is whether or not that is a reasonable or rational position given it could ultimately lead to worse situation for us.
Cian
The Common Travel Agreement is not legally binding – it is not worth the paper it is written on. The Memorandum of Understanding signed in May explicitly states this:
17 The foregoing record represents the common understanding of the Participants upon the matters referred to therein. It is not of itself intended to create legally binding obligations. The longstanding durability of the CTA has benefited from a degree of flexibility and the detail of the foregoing arrangements may continue to evolve.”
Listrade
It is Statutory Law in the UK. It has primary and secondary legislation. It is covered as an arrangement under Protocol 20 to the Treaty on European Union. Both countries have committed to it. You make it sound like a handshake over a pint and an agreement to meet up next week.
Now I’m happy if you can point to where there is any suggestion the CTA is at risk.
Charger Salmons
@Listrade
Interesting, well-presented thoughts which one would hope the more sensible elements of the EU,Irish and UK governments would be sharing.
Sadly the media rarely presents all sides of the argument and instead we’re left with the cliche-ridden bilge of Derek Mooney and the shrill harping of the IT’s Kathy Sheridan. https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-why-should-ireland-fix-brexit-for-britain-1.3972148
Personally I still think a fudge will appear but it will take a few more weeks of Boris’s No Deal warnings and ramping up of preparations to make it happen.
Listrade
Mate. You don’t take a dump in my soup and then put your arm around my shoulder and tell me it’s terrible that someone has dumped in my soup and we should get together and complain to the manager to sort out this problem.
Papi
Bravo, Listrade, bravo!
Charger Salmons
A dump in your soup ?
Such ingratitude.
I’m trying to offer you some encouragement as one of the few Irish people on here with the wit and intelligence to see beyond the media-encouraged Paddywackery and understand the realpolitik.
No Deal means this country is in deep doodah and there’ll be plenty more people travelling over to take the soup on the mainland when that happens.
It’s amazing how quickly people forget November 27th 2010.
Brother Barnabas
“there’ll be plenty more people travelling over to take the soup”
Oh,Brother.
That’s only because they think they’ll skip the queues at passport control.
ReproBertie
Listrade you are forgetting that the extension to October 31st was granted with the condition that the time would not be spent to try and renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement.
Bojo signed off on the backstop and then freely admitted that they thought they could sign off on it to get to the next stage of negotiations and then just ignore it. I can’t imagine the EU being interested in reopening the negotiations with someone who was heavily involved in them already and openly displays his duplicity.
The notion that they can leave with no deal, abandoning the fruit of three years of negotiation, and then negotiate a better deal from a weaker position is pie in the sky. To negotiate a future trade deal they need to accept the WA. Ignore the bluster. They’ll be taking the deal because they know there’s no second option.
Listrade
Repro, I’m not forgetting anything. I’m 100% conscious of all that has gone before, I’m past caring at this point about the utter calamity of the the last 3 years. Maybe it will pan out like you said, but I’m not sure and I don’t want to take that risk. We should let them leave and we should do so with a deal that minimises the impact for all.
ReproBertie
We have a deal that minimises the impact for all. It’s the WA.
The Backstop only becomes an issue if they drag out the “easiest deal in history” in the follow up trade negotiations.
Listrade
Not quite. We actually have nothing. We had a proposal that has been rejected by the British Parliament, so that means we have nothing. As it formally stands there is no backstop.
The gamble is that we keep the firm line of no discussion and hope that it will mean a general election or second vote and hopefully then we get the vote we want?
How has that hope worked for us the last ten years? They’ll never actually have a referendum. They did. They’ll never actually vote to leave. They did. May has a huge majority, she wouldn’t be so stupid as to have an election. She does. They’ll accept the withdrawal agreement. They don’t. Repeat 3 times.
Do we want to risk everything on the stand off working this time? What’s that saying about repetition and expecting the a different result?
I’d rather we had to eat some crow and let Boris have his victory of it guaranteed a workable deal.
martco
I get your persuasion @Listrade
I don’t think the backstop proposed or otherwise matters a damn. its a piece of paper at best & lots of those have come & gone historically.
It’s the physical, practical stuff we need to focus on….like where this goes next when we eat some crow you speak of.
so what’s on that horizon? installed infrastructure & that horrible can of worms…which won’t last 5 years….so that leads to a referendum on norniron’s sovereignty (where I imagine we get to have a very serious game of pass the parcel & a taste of hate/division in our 26 counties, thanks Dominic Cummings, you’re welcome)
I for one have no teary eyed wishes for 32, it would kill 3 generations hopes & dreams minimum….unless ze Germans stump up €15Bill per annum for 20 years. All I do know is that this kip version of Ireland FG have crafted for us is (on top of everything else) is about to go thru 20 years of turmoil thanks to a bunch of Tory toffs whom as you have rightly identified are in it for themselves.
my view is we’re fupped anyway so I’d rather see Bojo the Clown & Rees-1879 & the circus burn than do the appeasement thing, 800 years and all that, dog in the manger, whatever, fupp them & their well practiced perfidious enterprise.
And in other news …
Climate change activists chain themselves to what they think is the HQ of power giant Drax in the City of London
But Drax moved a year ago and the office is now home to one of the leading suppliers of renewable energy.
https://www.cityam.com/bad-day-at-the-office-climate-change-activists-protest-outside-the-wrong-building/
Muppets.
Next week, Broadsheets very own Tommy Robinson will discuss other groups of people he also hates.
“It’s not just myself and the Irish, heh, heh, heh!” he cries, thoroughly alone in his bedsit.
Heh,heh,heh.
Daily Mail: Leo has clashed with Boris- let’s hope an aeroplane never lands on a Luas or their angle would be ‘Luas crashes into Aeroplane’.
Brexit and Boris – wow!! So, it seems that 17.4M Brits voted for a no deal Brexit. That escalated quickly. It appears that Scottish and Welsh First Ministers are competent and intelligent but the British PM is anything but. A hard Brexit will mean the exit of Scotland, then NI, possibly Wales.
Although I have yet to hear it being said- I sometimes wonder if there is not an element within English nationalism who thinks that England would be better off going it alone. It is where most of the UK wealth is concentrated after all.
I think you’ll find the vast majority of English people would be perfectly happy with the break-up of the union.
If you lot want the cesspit that is Northern Ireland you’re welcome to it.
Likewise the whiney Scots.
Both are a huge drain on England’s resources where the majority of the UK’s population produces most of the wealth.
The Welsh huff and puff a bit but as in their Brexit vote and BoJo’s popularity there they always were the smartest of the other regions in understanding the balance of power.
Unfortunately when faced with the hey lads hey Scotland and NI always follow the Irish in bottling it.
Lisbon 2. Scots IndyRef. The collapse of the NI Assembly.
The troika of Celtic cowardice.
Chagrin Slaloms seems to be all over the place lately. Is it the Massively Fat Fingers or delirium tremens? We may never care.
Hahaha
PMSL
Then it will be time to say toodle-pip to the north, followed by the midlands, until only the Tory heartlands are left.
Don’t wonder; I know an ardent Brexiteer who says that many of his compatriots are sick of the colonies and our ungrateful attitude!
We already know how they have whitewashed their own history for themselves so it’s quite logical.
After Oct 31st they can twist the screws until their errant subjects squeal for mercy.
… haha I just read Sammon’s spiel below.
Anyway, the line they are spinning is that the Brexiteers are national separatists (now that the number of royal bootlickers abroad have been counted and found wanting)
Boris must be considering going into the Farmers Mart business selling live animals. I can almost hear his spiel now. “Get your cock and pullet”
I think you’ll find the vast majority of English people would be perfectly happy with the break-up of the Union.
If you lot want the cesspit that is Northern Ireland you’re welcome to it.
Likewise the whiney Scots.
Both are a huge drain on England’s resources where the majority of the UK’s population produces most of the wealth.
The Welsh huff and puff a bit but as in their Brexit vote and BoJo’s popularity there they always were the smartest of the other regions in understanding the balance of power.
Unfortunately when faced with any difficult decision Scotland and NI always follow the Irish in bottling it.
Lisbon 2. Scots IndyRef. The collapse of the NI Assembly.
The troika of Celtic cowardice so to speak.
I think you’ll find that the English people are generally lacking in knowledge and education about the members of the UK. You’ll probably find too that the PIN numbers of many English is 1966. Sure no-one would guess that now, would they?
Wytch Farm I’m sure can supply the oil requisites of England (not), while Scotland could supply their own, and sell to the English.
Of course, all of those ‘English’ stalwart companies would provide 100% employment. You know, like, Toyota, Nissan, TATA (owners of Land Rover), British (sorry, Indian) Steel. All of which, of course, are either closing or threatening to close/reduce footprint)
You mean like Diageo ?
Baby.Candy.Take.
Ireland doesn’t think there is an old empire waiting to do business with it. Our education system is better than that, unlike one I can think of. Eton doesn’t seem to be capable of educating, these days.
Here’s your first exam question of the day.
How many Irish universities appear in every list of the world’s top 100 universities ?
Take your time now but if you need a clue the answer is somewhere between none and zero.
Question two – how many UK universities appear in the world’s top 10 universities ?
Google is your friend.
Heh x 3 ( another clue )
actually, charger, 4 of the top 10 universities in the world are in the UK
5. Oxford
6. Cambridge
8. ICL
10. UCL
you have to wonder, though, how brexit might affect that when you consider that only one of the most senior academics in those four institutions are actually from the UK:
Oxford – Louise Richardson (Irish)
Cambridge – Stephen Toope (Canadian)
Imperial – Alice Gast (American)
UCL – Michael Arthur (English)
It depends which rankings you look at.
I generally go with the THE but hey, I’m happy to take a fourth.
http://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2019/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats
As you know Ireland slipped out of the top 100 a while back and each year slides further and further down the rankings.
TCD currently at 120th nestling just below the University of York, a city in the North of England with a population a sixth of the size of Dublin.
Ah yes, but are Diageo threatening to pull out of Ireland? Howzat?
Namby-pamby nimby Pat Kenny is to make “a good donation” to the unidentified organisers [it’s not Pat himself, is it?!] of legal proceedings about a housing development in Dalkey; they’re now going to the High Court to overturn the decision of An Bord Pleanala to allow much needed housing to be built on a site adjacent to Pat’s pile. This time round, Pat is objecting to the development on health and safety grounds. He previously objected to the drone survey on privacy grounds. His original objection to the development was about “loss of light” to his property, “In my opinion, the proposed development by the applicant is not in compliance with the proper planning and sustainable development of the area”. Seems Pat’s objections change every day.
Selfish old (72) goat.
At the High Court yesterday, the DPP confirmed the Indo was stumping up €100,000 for the cost of the rape trial that collapsed last November after the Indo published an article which compromised the trial.
The DPP has also reportedly withdrawn contempt proceedings against Fionnan Sheahan and Nicola Anderson, however, the Indo itself is still in for a fine which will be set by Judge O’Regan later today. Contrary to what the Indo’s barrister claims, €100,000 is not the absolute upper limit.
The Judge appeared to be impressed with the diligence of both Fionnan and Nicola, and it was the INM solicitor who wrongly gave the article the all-clear. So Fionnan and Nicola both escape a criminal conviction. Which contrasts with the conviction and fine for the editor of the Irish Daily Mail earlier this month.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/penalty-to-be-imposed-on-media-group-over-article-which-led-to-collapse-of-rape-trial-to-be-decided-tomorrow-940434.html
€111,000 fine for contempt for the Indo (on top of the €100,000 the Indo is paying for the cost of the collapsed rape trial)
https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0731/1066271-independent-newspapers/
Maybe Cian Ferriter SC might get it now, the upper limit for contempt is NOT €100,000. In fact, in this case, the Judge set a base of €175,000 before giving the Indo a discount of €64,000 for various mitigations.
That draws a line under that.
My thoughts though with the alleged victim in the alleged rape. Last November was the THIRD time she had endured a trial, only to see the trial collapse when the Indo published the article. She will now endure a FOURTH trial at the end of this year. The alleged perpetrator denies rape. All the parties retain anonymity at this stage of proceedings.
Thanks, eoin.
“If you lot want the cesspit that is Northern Ireland you’re welcome to it”
er, no, you made your own bed so lie in it!
(I do believe this is actually one of the card tricks being attempted here btw)
What ?
The Irish don’t want a united Ireland ?
Too much like hard work ?
Let Blighty do the heavy lifting ?
Prefer to sit on a barstool and whinge about it instead ?
Well blow me down with a feather.
Who’da thunk it ?
Heh, heh, heh.
You sure are a laugh a month.
tee hee
@charger
your nasty plantation project is spent, long gone, it failed near 100 years ago
so you can keep on doing your own heavy lifting there
why would we want your waste?
No wonder The Wolfe Tones struggle to get a gig these days.
Heh, heh, heh.
Up the Shinners !
By Mary Lou ” Gerry was never in the IRA ” McDonald.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2019/0730/1066044-sinn-fein/
ah now @charger maybe you’re seeing some light after all.
old assumptions & trope, it’s a typical Tory error….you’re talking to a different generation as are Bojo the Clown & Rees-1879. people who are already dead or heading for the exit. neither me nor my kids have any interest in the Wolfe Tones, or norniron, Sinn Fein or your pals the Ulster Taleban. we’re well ahead of all that now I think as a country. If part of your Tory fundamentalist vision under all of this is pulling a card trick to tug some sort of 32 county heartstring & manipulate an abandonment of the expensive & very troubled plantation project ye constructed then you’re gonna be very disappointed.
Keep it thanks & enjoy your new Victorian life sunshine. no one left to rape & pillage anymore however so,
like, good luck with all that. heh x3
Sold out for August, maybe you can stand outside and hope someone leaves the door open , you’ll be getting used to that soon.
What ?
The British don’t want a united Kingdom?
Too much like hard work ?
…
Talking of heh, heh, heh.
Jacob Rees-Mogg driving a dodgem car.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1156096516613795840
Mary Robinson’s “good friend” Princess Heya is back in the High Court in London this morning. There is restricted reporting of the case and media were kicked out yesterday. However, the Judge has allowed some details to be reported. The wife of the dictator of Dubai (the crap-hole the size of Leitrim in the Middle East ruled by Mo McToom and his henchmen and which is the base of the Kinahan drug trafficking organisation), is seeking three things (1) custody of her two kids which are with her in London (2) a non-molestation order and (3) a forced marriage protection order.
There’s no real detail, but CNN reports (3) would prevent a wife being forced to travel abroad.
The Dubai dictator owns several stables in Ireland where he is feted as a horsing hero. Dubai Duty Free is a private company but is closely linked to Mo.
Our neighbouring jurisdiction continues its transformation into a police state. At present their “security services” are allowed mass surveillance on citizens (sorry, citizen is for republic, what is it you have in a monarchy? subjects? peasants?).
“Liberty’s lawyers said the data gathered by the security services and other agencies – under warrants granted by a judge or the home secretary – can include:
Intimate data, including an individual’s internet browsing history
The apps users have downloaded to their phone
Usernames and passwords
Cell site data that can pin-point a person’s location at a given time”
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49153593
Good
Our brave custodians need all the help they can get in apprehending terrorists
Our brave custodians need all the help they can get in apprehending
terroriststouristsFTFY
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
Not just terrorists and tourists, the list of organisations with blanket access to your electronic records in the UK includes the tax people, the HMRC and even some NHS trusts. They’ve been doing it for years, but it was Edward Snowden’s whistleblowing which forced the UK to put the surveillance on a legislative footing.
https://www.thejournal.ie/state-surveillance-ireland-gardai-wiretapping-email-monitoring-gardai-2099537-May2015/
I’ll see your surveillance and raise you.
Has the Department of Housing stopped published homeless figures? There were over 10,000 in hotels, b&bs, co living hubs etc in May 2019, what was the position in June? Maybe if the galoot from Ranelagh can get his tongue out of his plate-faced squeeze’s throat for five minutes, he might check on the figures.
This year’s net immigration figures should be tasty too.
Heh,heh,heh.
34,000 jobs at risk in the Republic (population 4.9m) from no-deal Brexit says Central Bank
https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/quarterly-bulletins/quarterly-bulletin-q3-2019.pdf?sfvrsn=4
40,000 at risk in Northern Ireland (population 1.9m) from no-deal Brexit says Northern Ireland civil service.
No deal hurts everyone but it will hurt the North 3x
Seems Boris is more focussed on a mainland threesome than his “awesome foursome”
I think you missed this in the report.
“There would be more than 100,000 fewer jobs( in Ireland ) over the medium term compared to their forecast if a deal on Brexit can be reached.”
According to The Torygragh above, he’s already saying that the UK could remain in the CU for two extra years- the back peddling has begun already.
sssshhhhhh allow charger his unicorns and his hatred of foreign folk, it’s all he knows..
Boris has Labour on the run, Varadakar on edge and a Cabinet solidly on message grabbing all the headlines.
Not bad for his first week or so as PM.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/31/labour-total-wipeout-boris-johnson?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
…never believe your own press releases Charger…sounds very like those PM May believed when she squandered a Tory majority by calling an unnecessary general election…exit stage right, followed by the DUP…
May didn’t have Nigel Farage snapping at her heels.
Tory-BXP electoral pact.
Mark my words.
I can’t wait to see that election. The Little Englanders will win. Boris is the last PM of the UK.
Heh,heh,heh?
Heh,heh,heh.
Probably time for a “Previously on Season One of Brexit”. Can’t say this enough: ignore the papers. Depending on your chosen side: Varadkar was firm or Boris was firm or there was an argument or there was a High Noon stand off with fingers twitching over pistols. Varadkar’s statement says the discussion was “warm”. Diplomatic speak for discussing contentious issues without resorting to arguments.
The current position is EU/IRE say that the Withdrawal agreement is not up for re discussion, Boris says that it’s been rejected by parliament 3 times, so it clearly doesn’t have support. Key issue in all of this is the Backstop.
In short, the backstop is contentious because of the DUP. EU,IRE and UK all agree to no hard border. Absolutely all on the same page. So they came up with a backstop for Northern Ireland. DUP says NO and May needs DUP. So what does May do? Says to EU, “rather than just applying the backstop to NI, apply it to whole of UK.” EU and IRE say “Grand so.” May signs and Parliament says, “WTF?”
Why is the Backstop contentious? Depends who you ask. For hard brexiteers it’s because it doesn’t mean hard brexit. But it was universally rejected by Parliament, not just the hard liners. The problem is a pretty reasonable one which is a lack of time lines and specifics in some areas. You can track via votes and suggestions in Parliament where the vast majority of MPs lie in their views. Really all the backstop does is kick the can down the road. It means more discussions, more negotiations, more posturing, more division and probably, still no deal.
So UK wants to change the Backstop.
EU/IRE says No. Not negotiable. But the issue is the backstop isn’t law. So that stance is ok we had the guarantee of the backstop or similar measures. We are asking GB and NI to commit to a long term deal without any effective transition. Our current stance is we won’t negotiate. The Withdrawal agreement is it.
Pick your side as to who is acting the boo boo. I’m on the side of all parties involved being unreasonable and playing games at the expense of the people they are supposedly representing/protecting. This is thing every loony leftie has warned about (alright, maybe just me). This is privileged elites in power, their only interest is their own political careers and “legacy”. They’re more interested in not being seen as a chicken or weak rather than the greater good. And the greater good is us. Us and our friends and relatives in the North. Us and our friends and relatives in GB.
The UK decided to leave the EU. Whatever. I’m past that. I’m past the history of it. I’m past the finger pointing. This has been on the agenda as a potential issue for over 10 years. The EU had no preparations for exiting it’s membership. It built a complicated mechanism of governance and commerce and never took the time to think about how it could be unpicked. It could be any number of reasons a member may wish to leave. But they chose to never put together an exit plan. Basic governance. Basic risk management.
Instead they chose the position that it was the UK’s issue and so the EU holds all the cards. And it is and they do. But that’s the politician’s view. That was ok for a while until it became apparent that we were getting nowhere and we had a bunch of politicians who didn’t want to be seen to blink and now we’re racing to a cliff edge. Egos have brought this whole thing down. British, Irish and EU egos. Political egos feeding snippets into the media so that all of us who will probably be affected point and shout at a different group of people who will probably be affected waving the flags of our chosen political elite.
The backstop clearly isn’t going to work. It needs to be renegotiated. That means EU/IRE are going to have to bite the bullet and let Boris be seen as victorious. We could keep up the charade and hope that his game is to go to election and get rid of the DUP. But do we want to wait? Do we want to test?
There’s things you can do via a diplomatic route that saves face for everyone. The door is slightly open “alternative solutions” is thrown in subtly every now and again. But we are expecting the UK to come up with all the answers and present them as an alternative. Have a team on the QT looking at alternatives and what works, what might need time and investment (we can then put a date into the backstop), what can be done temporarily, what needs a different UK/IRE treaty or agreement.
We can still make this whole thing as painless as possible. We just have to accept it really is happening. We’re going to have to let Boris claim a victory. I’d rather have Boris writing himself into history as the next Churchill and know that my friends and relatives are as minimally impacted as possible, than keep up the pissing contest knowing people are going to suffer.
+all the 1’s
“The UK decided to leave the EU. Whatever. I’m past that. I’m past the history of it. I’m past the finger pointing. This has been on the agenda as a potential issue for over 10 years. The EU had no preparations for exiting it’s membership. It built a complicated mechanism of governance and commerce and never took the time to think about how it could be unpicked. It could be any number of reasons a member may wish to leave. But they chose to never put together an exit plan. Basic governance. Basic risk management.”
Wrong, The EU had Article 50 – the British chose to invoke it early, rather than invoke it after the negotiations. Another British blunder. Of course, it is the EU’s fault. Have you noticed it is always the EU’s (or someone else’s fault).
The backstop is there because of the Good Friday Agreement. You don’t mention that. The GFA requires that the border has no physical controls. It is not negotiable. Boris voted for the current withdrawal agreement. It was OK then, what has changed? The British seem to have forgotten about the Troubles – it is almost as if they don’t know anything about, or care about the north of Ireland.
The British partitioned Ireland against the democratic vote of the Irish people. They have to live with the consequences. The EU understands the GFA and will not be budging.
Quite the whiff of semtex of this comment.
Not really. I have heard enough “democratic will of the people” from Brexiteers, when it suits them.
“The British partitioned Ireland against the democratic vote of the Irish people. They have to live with the consequences.”
Part of the referendum on accepting the GFA was accepting that NI was British Territory. Seems Boris may not be the only one not understanding the GFA. However, those consequences affect us and our friends and our neighbours. It means we have to live with the consequences too. So how about we find a path to minimise those consequences?
The reason I don’t mention it here is because I’ve mentioned it several times in the past. In detail. Had debates on it with people, so i didn’t want to rehash those arguments. However, GFA isn’t at risk. Common Travel Area deals with all that. CTA will remain in force, that is absolute. That is allowed under Protocol 20 to the Treaty on European Union. I’m sure you’ve read that too as means of forming your opinions. You didn’t mention it. You waved the GFA like everyone else does, but ignore the rest. Because it’s emotive and convenient, but based on ignorance.
“Wrong, The EU had Article 50”
2 things. I’m past the balls-up the UK made. I can’t be bothered with that any more because we need a solution. Triggering Article 50 was stupid. But it was done and we all have to deal with it. Second, Article 50 is the clause under which you leave. It is a couple of paragraphs. IT IS NOT AN EXIT PLAN. There is a difference. The EU knew there would be a vote in the UK as we all did. They chose to hope (as we all did) that the vote would be remain. But they utterly messed up in not laying out a plan for exiting the EU.
That is basic. I don’t enter any business contract without an exit plan. Whether it’s millions or thousands. I want a plan to minimise risk for both parties if it doesn’t work out. That’s not saying we go into it expecting it to fail, but we have a cushion and reassurance for both parties that if, for whatever reason, we have to end the contract, it’ll be managed.
Two paragraphs is not an exit plan. So that’s my frustration with the EU. They had no plan and put the entire emphasis on the UK to come up with the plan. Politically and technically, fine. Go for it. Morally? For the greater good? Nah. And now we are where we are.
If May hadn’t extended the backstop to the whole of the UK and left it at NI, we may actually have a better chance. It’s possible that she wouldn’t have needed the DUP and would have had support for the Withdrawal Agreement across parliament. She’d have lost some hard liners, but gained some from other parties. We’ll never know.
“If May hadn’t extended the backstop to the whole of the UK and left it at NI, we may actually have a better chance.”
So, it is the British who chose the current mess. They could resolve this, without expecting the EU to change anything.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-no-deal-mark-francois-boris-johnson-erg-video/
Mark Francois, the ERG’s deputy chairman, was very explicit about this in a recent BBC interview. “If there were any attempt to revive the withdrawal agreement, even without the backstop”, he insisted, “the ERG would vote against it”.
So, the backstop is just one of a number of issues. They like to have one that they can blame on those pesky Irish and Europeans.
Yes it is May’s mess. Yes they are blaming us and the EU. But we and the EU are saying that there is no more negotiating on the Backstop (the one that applies to the whole of the UK and not just NI).
Think about that for second like a rational person. We probably had a good arrangement with NI Backstop. DUP got wind of it and May panicked and decided to apply Backstop to UK. UK has made it absolutely clear that isn’t going to be acceptable. 3 times they’ve rejected it.
So we now have an issue where there’ll be nothing. No backstop, nothing. But we’re still saying we won’t renegotiate a deal we know is bad and we know isn’t a formal deal and has no legal standing. Our only caveat is that the UK should come up with alternatives.
I’m sorry, but I don’t think that’s reasonable or in our own best interests. As much as I dislike Tories and Brexiteers, I actually think they have a point on this. The clearest option is to go back to the draft and have the Backstop NI only. Boris would loose the DUP, but possibly gain a majority vote combining the rest of the Tories (he’d do the Churchill and say he’d won) and some of the Labour heads who are pro-Brexit. Possibly.
But we have an impasse because we are saying no negotiation, are not helping the UK come to a more palatable arrangement they can sell and do not want to now show weakness or giving in to Boris.
So yes, you’re right, May, the Tories, everyone messed up. But that mess affects us. Our current political posturing means the worst possible case for us, but we’re hoping Boris blinks first. How likely do you think that is? There is a solution. But it requires us and the EU to let Boris have a victory. And it saddens me that it seems people and politicians are prepared to sacrifice the livelihoods and quality of life of thousands of their friends and relatives for no reason other than tribal politics.
“But we have an impasse because we are saying no negotiation,”
No negotiation of the WA was a condition of the October 31st extension.
I am no legal eagle but the evidence speaks for itself. The backstop has caused absolute chaos in the HP and has already brought down one prime minister.
The plain fact is, GB cannot unilaterally leave the EU without conceding to the democratic mandate of the people of Northern Ireland who wish to remain.
As for accepting that it is happening- well half of Britain don’t so why should we? It will go a people’s vote because the only alternative is to suspend parliament which would be an absolute abuse of power- and is just not going to happen.
“No negotiation of the WA was a condition of the October 31st extension.”
That doesn’t matter, we must cave in to the british demands no matter how unreasonable, because we are an economy, not a country.
@Repro. I know. I get it. But my point is whether or not that is a reasonable or rational position given it could ultimately lead to worse situation for us.
The Common Travel Agreement is not legally binding – it is not worth the paper it is written on. The Memorandum of Understanding signed in May explicitly states this:
17 The foregoing record represents the common understanding of the Participants upon the matters referred to therein. It is not of itself intended to create legally binding obligations. The longstanding durability of the CTA has benefited from a degree of flexibility and the detail of the foregoing arrangements may continue to evolve.”
It is Statutory Law in the UK. It has primary and secondary legislation. It is covered as an arrangement under Protocol 20 to the Treaty on European Union. Both countries have committed to it. You make it sound like a handshake over a pint and an agreement to meet up next week.
Now I’m happy if you can point to where there is any suggestion the CTA is at risk.
@Listrade
Interesting, well-presented thoughts which one would hope the more sensible elements of the EU,Irish and UK governments would be sharing.
Sadly the media rarely presents all sides of the argument and instead we’re left with the cliche-ridden bilge of Derek Mooney and the shrill harping of the IT’s Kathy Sheridan.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/kathy-sheridan-why-should-ireland-fix-brexit-for-britain-1.3972148
Personally I still think a fudge will appear but it will take a few more weeks of Boris’s No Deal warnings and ramping up of preparations to make it happen.
Mate. You don’t take a dump in my soup and then put your arm around my shoulder and tell me it’s terrible that someone has dumped in my soup and we should get together and complain to the manager to sort out this problem.
Bravo, Listrade, bravo!
A dump in your soup ?
Such ingratitude.
I’m trying to offer you some encouragement as one of the few Irish people on here with the wit and intelligence to see beyond the media-encouraged Paddywackery and understand the realpolitik.
No Deal means this country is in deep doodah and there’ll be plenty more people travelling over to take the soup on the mainland when that happens.
It’s amazing how quickly people forget November 27th 2010.
“there’ll be plenty more people travelling over to take the soup”
looks like you’re (half) right:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/31/record-number-of-britons-seeking-irish-passports-ahead-of-brexit
Oh,Brother.
That’s only because they think they’ll skip the queues at passport control.
Listrade you are forgetting that the extension to October 31st was granted with the condition that the time would not be spent to try and renegotiate the Withdrawal Agreement.
Bojo signed off on the backstop and then freely admitted that they thought they could sign off on it to get to the next stage of negotiations and then just ignore it. I can’t imagine the EU being interested in reopening the negotiations with someone who was heavily involved in them already and openly displays his duplicity.
The notion that they can leave with no deal, abandoning the fruit of three years of negotiation, and then negotiate a better deal from a weaker position is pie in the sky. To negotiate a future trade deal they need to accept the WA. Ignore the bluster. They’ll be taking the deal because they know there’s no second option.
Repro, I’m not forgetting anything. I’m 100% conscious of all that has gone before, I’m past caring at this point about the utter calamity of the the last 3 years. Maybe it will pan out like you said, but I’m not sure and I don’t want to take that risk. We should let them leave and we should do so with a deal that minimises the impact for all.
We have a deal that minimises the impact for all. It’s the WA.
The Backstop only becomes an issue if they drag out the “easiest deal in history” in the follow up trade negotiations.
Not quite. We actually have nothing. We had a proposal that has been rejected by the British Parliament, so that means we have nothing. As it formally stands there is no backstop.
The gamble is that we keep the firm line of no discussion and hope that it will mean a general election or second vote and hopefully then we get the vote we want?
How has that hope worked for us the last ten years? They’ll never actually have a referendum. They did. They’ll never actually vote to leave. They did. May has a huge majority, she wouldn’t be so stupid as to have an election. She does. They’ll accept the withdrawal agreement. They don’t. Repeat 3 times.
Do we want to risk everything on the stand off working this time? What’s that saying about repetition and expecting the a different result?
I’d rather we had to eat some crow and let Boris have his victory of it guaranteed a workable deal.
I get your persuasion @Listrade
I don’t think the backstop proposed or otherwise matters a damn. its a piece of paper at best & lots of those have come & gone historically.
It’s the physical, practical stuff we need to focus on….like where this goes next when we eat some crow you speak of.
so what’s on that horizon? installed infrastructure & that horrible can of worms…which won’t last 5 years….so that leads to a referendum on norniron’s sovereignty (where I imagine we get to have a very serious game of pass the parcel & a taste of hate/division in our 26 counties, thanks Dominic Cummings, you’re welcome)
I for one have no teary eyed wishes for 32, it would kill 3 generations hopes & dreams minimum….unless ze Germans stump up €15Bill per annum for 20 years. All I do know is that this kip version of Ireland FG have crafted for us is (on top of everything else) is about to go thru 20 years of turmoil thanks to a bunch of Tory toffs whom as you have rightly identified are in it for themselves.
my view is we’re fupped anyway so I’d rather see Bojo the Clown & Rees-1879 & the circus burn than do the appeasement thing, 800 years and all that, dog in the manger, whatever, fupp them & their well practiced perfidious enterprise.
Heh,heh,heh?
– https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0002rjj
Breaking the Class Ceiling.