35 thoughts on “Monday’s Papers

  1. Cú Chulainn

    There is so much on those front pages: but one really sticks in my craw: the Soccer crowd: every last single one of them would refuse to face reality. From the u6s all the way to Alex Ferguson would never do that.. they get what they deserve.. and every lady child should be playing gaa or rugby..

    Reply
    1. Cú Chulainn

      Fecking auto correct: every boy in Ireland should play GAA or rugby, feck soccer . the girls are free to play whatever they like.. including scoccer.. which is actually a girls game..

      Reply
      1. Junkface

        It’s not soccer, it’s called Football. Its the only game where the players are mostly kicking the ball with their feet, not using hands.

        Reply
  2. SOQ

    One million people face new Covid-19 restrictions tomorrow

    More than a million people face the prospect of new Covid-19 restrictions on visits to their homes due to concern over the rate of infections in the capital.

    Meanwhile, the reopening of ‘wet pubs’ in Dublin from September 21 is also at risk, with ministers set to deliberate on the issue amid the surge in Covid-19 cases.

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-one-million-people-face-new-covid-19-restrictions-tomorrow-39528106.html

    Meanwhile- as of 9:00 am on 14/09/2020- the Positive Test Rate (%) sits at 1.8% with just 4 new admissions to hospital and 1 to ICU. How in God’s name can they justify this madness?

    Reply
    1. Ian-O

      They point at the anti mask racists and thugs as justification. Thats how.

      All you “march for freedom from common sense and basic human decency and foreigners and gays” clowns are doing is prolonging the lockdown and causing more restrictions. But then logic, reality and facts appear to pass right over your heads.

      Reply
      1. SOQ

        Oh so we should be complaint and this authoritarian stuff will go away is it? History should tell you that is not how civil rights movements work.

        Reality and facts should indicate a spike after each public protest, be it anti mandate or BLM but no spikes have occurred because of any of those gatherings- and you can be certain the media would be shouting about if so.

        The increase in ‘cases’ is down to an increase in testing, nothing more. The most important figure is the positive rate, currently sitting at 1.8%, which means that yesterday- they returned the results of over 14 000 tests- in a single day.

        Reply
        1. Ian-O

          I am not referring to outdoor mass gatherings, I am talking about the violence, the scum you are associating with who just want to bring attention to their far/alt right beliefs.

          I actually used to find much of your posts quite agreeable but then you and others started with the labelling of any opposition to your point of view as being sheep like or supporting FFG or an establishment shill.

          So if I am a pro FFG sheep then by YOUR logic you are a racist, homophobic, sexist neo nazi.

          You and others on here set the tone and rules of engagement so don’t complain if you find yourself on the receiving end of a bit of kickback. As for BS, its reputation is in the gutter over this. No amount of protests to the contrary can hide the dispropotionate amount of coverage its given to the anti maskers. If I wanted that level of bias I’d read the indo or watch RTE. Sad to think this place was once a bastion of the underdog. Now its just one more voice of insanity/inanity.

          Reply
          1. Commenter #1

            “No amount of protests to the contrary can hide the dispropotionate amount of coverage its given to the anti maskers.”

            It’s true. It’s been a week since one of Chompsky’s gently pro-mask/COVID-acknowledging posts. You used to be better at hiding the editorial position, Bodger!

          2. SOQ

            Not really sure what your are saying here- I am not connected to BS in any form so it really is up the site editors as to what stories they chose to post. As for the comments, people can- within reason- discuss what they choose, as the moderation is pretty light touch in comparison to most other sites.

            I, amount with others however, think this issue is incredibly important because the economic and social implications of this current government’s CoVid-19 strategy is going to be absolutely disastrous- and will be felt for years, Instead of trying to get the place back to some semblance of normality, they are now doing the exact opposite.

            I do not accept everyone who feels this way are alt right or far right or whatever slur you wish to use. Many people are fed up to the back teeth with this nonsense, particularly when there is no empirical evidence to support it. Take pubs for example- they have been open in England for months with no spike, so what is so different here?

        2. Cian

          @SOQ
          The increase in ‘cases’ is down to an increase in testing, nothing more.

          You keep repeating this lie, despite the empirical data refuting it.

          In Ireland:
          June had 85,000 tests: 483 positive (0.57%)
          July had 203,300 tests: 592 positive (0.29%)
          August had 206,900 tests: 2,746 positives (1.33%)

          July had over twice as many tests as June – but the positive-rate halved.
          August had about the same number of tests as July – but the positive rate jumped 400%.

          We are seeing more positive cases because a greater number of people are positive NOT because there are more tests.

          Saying that, because there are more positive tests – the number of daily tests being done this month has increased. An increase in positive tests made them do increase the number of daily tests.

          Reply
          1. SOQ

            I know that is a weekly average for the Positive Test Rate (%) but 14000 in one day Cian? If you push that out to a monthly average for September, that will be 420 000.

            That is nearly twice for any other month so far and still the Positive Test Rate (%) has not changed much- an increase of .1 or .2%.

          2. Cian

            You are taking an extreme number in one day and multiplying by 30; If the first 12 days of September there were ~120k tests; we are looking at 300,000 tests in September.

            As the data for the months of June, July and August show – there is no connection between number of tests performed and either the number of positives or the % of positives.

            Something else is causing the % to go up and down. I’m proposing it is the amount of COVID in the population… it has steadily increased in the last 6 weeks.

            Hospital admissions has steadily increased over the last 4 weeks;

            ICU is starting to increase since last week (granted this may be a temporary bump)

          3. SOQ

            I agree- like all seasonal bugs it is going to rise, but it won’t be a second wave because it has already done a lap of honour around the country and infected a lot of people.

            They are now finding evidence of Sars-Cov-2 in the sewage systems in various cities from December and in donated blood supplies so it has been around a lot longer than when CoVid-19 took off- and, will be around a long time afterwards.

          4. Cian

            @SOQ
            “I agree”
            So are you going to stop repeating the lie that the increase in cases is due to the increase in testing?

            One other thing. At what stage would you concede that there is a second wave in Ireland?
            – How many new cases in a week? (1,000? 2,000? 5,000? 10,000?); or
            – how many people in hospital? (100? 200? 300? 500?); or
            – how many in ICU? (25? 50? 100? 200?); and/or
            – how many additional deaths? 10 within a week? 50? 100?

          5. SOQ

            https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/hospitals-icu–testing

            Actually I can see that there was 71 685 tests done in the past 7 days which if pushed out is 307 221 for the whole month of September- the closest indication yet that the amount of testing is rising substantially.

            There is a definite known correlation between number of tests done and positive results returned- especially as they are also picking up dead remnants. This is well flagged- you can google it yourself.

            As for a second wave- there has never been one before- 198/19 was two separate viruses- so I don’t know why people think this thing is going to rewrite history.

            And besides, even if it was to happen it would be well flagged in advance from other countries as it is not going to behave any differently here.

          6. Cian

            I said 300,000; you say 307 221? wow, big difference.

            Yes, 300,000 is bigger than 200,000, but before when we saw:
            June had 85,000 tests: 483 positive (0.57%)
            July had 203,300 tests: 592 positive (0.29%)

            An increase in tests doesn’t imply an increase in positives.
            It didn’t happen in Ireland in July, why would it happen in September?

            You are denying the possibility of a second wave? because you read that the Spanish flu had multiple strains? Wow.

            If 2,000 people die from/with Covid this winter you’ll deny it is a second wave?

    2. f_lawless

      Have you seen this SOQ? Irish medical virologist, Cillian De Gascun. giving his explanation of how PCR tests are being done here –

      https://twitter.com/CillianDeGascun/status/1305251821829656585
      “we usually run the PCR for 35-45 cycles.”. He says that if labs here were to develop their own in-house testing kits, then they could decide how many cycles are used. But that currently, it’s the commercial manufacturer who “decides how many cycles we must use”.

      He goes on: “A high Ct value (indicating a low virus burden) does not and cannot distinguish between a virus load on the way up (e.g. in a pre-symptomatic individual), a virus load on the way down (e.g. in a recovering individual), a poorly taken specimen, and a false positive result.”

      Meanwhile , there’s various experts such as Prof Carl Heneghan who have already pointed out the dangers of PCR testing using a high number of cycles: (” live virus was only detected when the cycle threshold was less than 24″)

      https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/could-mass-testing-for-covid-19-do-more-harm-than-good-

      “In a recent BMJ rapid response, doctors in Wales set out these problems when using the PCR test when there is low viral circulation in the population. Routine testing found 26 low-level positive results for SARS-CoV-2. The number of cycles required to reach the threshold in these patients ranged from 36 to 43. Nineteen of these weakly positive tests were repeated, and all 19 were negative on repeat testing.

      The importance of the cycle threshold is shown in a Canadian study of 96 samples from SARS-CoV-2 infected patients that reported live virus was only detected when the cycle threshold was less than 24”

      De Gascun asserts in the thread that the high cycle threshold used in Ireland is justified because we should err on the side of caution to capture all possible cases but surely the public is being misled by the daily counts of “new cases” released by NPHET and the way they are reported in the media without qualification?

      Reply
      1. SOQ

        Yes this issue was first raised in the US where the private labs were all doing their own thing. PCR is a forensic test meaning designed to pick up fragments but if you stick it on a spin cycle then at some stage, every single test will return as positive.

        Surely there is some mandatory EU standard that places a ceiling on the number of cycle thresholds? Otherwise the positive count is completely meaningless.

        Reply
      1. Cian

        @f_lawless, I seriously doubt there will be another spike like we had in April.
        We are more prepared now and with the majority of people acting more carefully (washing hands, smaller groups, working from home, masks, a small cohort immune). It is being monitored more closely, so it won’t spread as quickly (doubling every 3 days in April) – if the numbers start doubling then we’ll go into lockdown.

        For me, if there are 250+ people in hospital and/or 50+ in ICU and/or 100+ deaths in 7 days would indicate we are in a second wave.

        How would you define it?

        Reply
  3. rotide

    Out of interest, I checked what sort of craic is happening here lately.

    Color me unsurprised. Hope you’re all keeping safe and well.

    Nigel and Cian, you’re too good for this place.

    Reply

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