57 thoughts on “Christmas Eve’s Papers

  1. Redundant Proofreaders Society

    NPHET over-stepping their brief. Professor Philip Nolan today on Morning Ireland sounded like a Bible Belt preacher.

    1. GiggidyGoo

      They’re making it up as they go along.
      Last minutes of their meetings? 19th November.
      Holohan can’t be trusted, given his performance in relation to the Cervical Screening attempted cover up.

          1. E'Matty

            Don’t forget that POS Holohan also encouraged Irish parents to vaccinate their kids with Pandemrix a full 2 years after it was known internationally that it was causing narcolepsy in kids and teenagers.

  2. eoin

    People need to stop watching TV news and reading newspapers. Get your news online. That way you can view the footage first hand, check the actual documents for yourself.etc….do your own research. Otherwise you are having to put your trust in people who have lied to us before.

    1. ce

      Yeah the internet never lies and the people who essentially own it are the most trustworthy on the planet…

      Maybe you should look at a little bit of everything and don’t solely research through one medium

          1. ce

            As I said before – why the assumption that others are not lying. I don’t trust RTE, but I don’t trust Facebook, YouTube, and those who post their, even Broadsheet… no offence… on some occasions all will consciously or accidentally tell some lies.

            There’s a lot more than two diametrically opposed ideas in any argument/situation – the science of the current situation is not black and/or white, anybody who claims that it i,s regardless of their opinion is wrong …. but people have to make calls with imperfect information, that’s the horror/terror of life.

          2. Haroo

            At least mainstream news can be held to account and open to scrutiny.

            Online “news” has a tendency to be an echo chamber for whatever opinion is espoused. People search for something to justify or substantiate their opinion or belief. The online news site/twitter account/blog/youtube channel knows this and caters to a market. People seek the news they want and the opinion that backs up their worldview. So it ends up being a self-reinforcing mess of unsubstantiated or biased opinion free from scrutiny or challenge about wild conspiracy theories, plandemics, great resets, stolen elections, Qanon etc.

            Look at Alex Jones in the US. He is absolutely mental. Going on about gay frogs and shouting like a lunatic. But then he flogs a lot of merch and makes a ton of money. He knows his market well.

            Bodger, you could flog plandemic merch and “not my NPHET” badges and t-shirts. SOQ, F Lawless and E Matty would keep you in finery for many years to come. You could even do a “Blighty is back, baby” (with Eamon Dunphy’s face) brexit hoody for Charger.

            Not saying mainstream media does not do the same to a degree. Murdoch always said that Fox News would be a lefty liberal outlet if there had been a market for that at the time.

          3. SOQ

            I do agree that some online should be taken with a pinch of salt but I definitely disagree about the likes of RTE being held to account and open to scrutiny.

            They pull the same 3-4 “experts” out every single time and never allow a single opposing opinion. They had Sunetra Gupta on once- ONCE !

            Merch is already happening via one Mr. Cummins BTW- the symbol of the sceptics is to be the smiley face. :-)

      1. Nigel

        Yes, complete the corporate degradation of journalism by embracing wholeheartedly unregulated, unaccountable, unverifiable, click-chasing, monopolistic, content-scraping, data-thieving, algorithm-driven online news.

        1. E'Matty

          Nah, just seek out news and information sources that are not controlled by corporate interests or the State. Why do people like you expect the information centres of established power to tell the truth about established power? Such incredible naivity.

          1. Haroo

            I think the BBC does a fairly good job of being a publicly funded institution while holding the govt and opposition to account. I think Reuters and ABC in the States are fairly good too.

            There is always bias. Whether it be through omission/inclusion, editorialising, opinion etc. I think the best you can achieve is putting a system/ethos in place that tries to represent the “facts”, gives journos freedom, report important interpretations, seeks to hold all to the same standards and tries to differentiate between fact/events and opinion. Bias is inherent but it can be systematically mitigated and balanced. Mainstream media is scrutinized, reviewed, fact checked, challenged and held to certain standards.

            Online opinion and interpretation is a free for all of half truths, selective stats, lies and logical fallacies. If you think there is no bias or it is pure news you are deluded. The same is needed for both: critical thinking and balance.

            However what I find with a lot of online nutters and conspiracy peddlers is that they think they are questioning things and not accepting the official narrative. In reality, they are questioning things they do not understand. Because it appears esoteric and confusing they do not engage with the “official” or accepted reasoning e.g. vaccines, viruses etc. They reject it and buy into a narrative or explanation that makes sense to them. All of this under the aegis of “questioning things”. None of it is based on fact, it is just a hodge podge of assumptions and fitting things together to suit their narrative that makes sense to them. If something is disproven they just find another event/”fact” that backs up their narrative which requires a lot of assumptions and interpretations. It seems to offer control (during confusing times) and I think makes them feel special to be one of the few who can see through the smoke and mirrors.

            And my favourite method of the conspiracy loons: negative proof. They require you to disprove what they are saying instead of them actually having to prove what they are saying (which is how most logical argumentation works). But because it is based on assumptions, feelings and interpretations it is impossible to disprove while also not engaging with the esoteric element that backs up the mainstream accept line as that is just “nonsense” and claptrap from an “expert”

          2. Nigel

            Well I’ve seen enough of the sort of nonsense spread by people who begin every comment with diatribes about mainstream media and accepted narratives to know that there’s none more credulous than the self-proclaimed skeptic.

          3. ce

            Does that include public libraries or are they corrupt too?

            Where do the information centres you get your information from get their information from?

            Who owns the internet and it’s means of distribution… oh wait several of the most powerful people in the world… I wonder if they benefit from selling us all tailor made, targeted agenda?

            …gotta run Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg are breaking down my door, I’ve said too much, tell Laura I love her…

      1. Haroo

        Well Charger, it looks like it’s all over (not really – the debate about Europe will continue in the UK for many a year yet). I never wanted the UK to leave the EU and think it is a mistake and damaging for all.

        However, we have to respect decisions. So we should respect the UK’s decision to leave and desire for control and the UK should respect the EU’s desire for integration, solidarity and furtherance/protection of the European project. Of course the two will be competing goals/have conflicting interests at times. I say this now as most of the acrimony should be finished between the two sides. Now we can get back to being friends and you can show the EU support the way I am sure you expect the EU to support, when it can, the UK’s new project.

        And don’t give me Front National, AfD – to a lesser degree PVV, MS5, Lega, Vox, PiS, Fidesz etc. or I will give you 16.1 million remain voters, a divided Conservative Party, a destroyed Labour Party and recent opinion polls.

        The one thing I don’t understand about Farage, he wants UK sovereignty (fine) but then he goes around Europe interfering with domestic politics in other European countries and interfering with the Union.

        Still good friends and neighbours. Both wishing each other well and supportive when we can, right?

        1. Charger Salmons

          I’m not quite sure why you give me a list of fascist and far-right political parties in connection with Brexit.
          Much of the support for leaving the EU came from traditional working class Labour neighbourhoods as well as vast swathes of conservative voters who have never voted a fascist MP to Parliament.
          It’s the mistaken tendency in the Irish and European media to frame Brexit as purely an English nationalist movement which explains how they got so much of it wrong with the referendum campaign and last December’s general election.
          This Brexit deal, whilst not perfect, respresents a personal triumph for Boris who has delivered on his election promise.
          And for a great many Brits it will not alter their view of Europe – we joined a trading union and left an increasingly federalist and unaccountable political union with overblown ambitions for a common tax policy, EU army and reduced sovereignty for all member states.
          Even if Britain remained the EU will eventually end in failure and without Blighty it loses a substantial part of its annual budget and a country powerful enough to stand up to the growing Franco-German grip on control of the organisation.
          Ireland loses a powerful ally in the EU as well.
          But for now the EU and UK will get along just fine.
          They both need each other.

          1. Haroo

            I gave you a list of Eurosceptic parties, the fact some are extreme right and facist must be a coincidence. The link to brexit? I think Farage cultivated the links to Front National and PVV himself (not AfD and others admittedly).

            You are right that the explanation for Brexit is misunderstood. It was largely a consequence of marginalisation and communities and geographies that lose out to globalisation that creates opportunities for some and challenges for others. The goal of national economic policy, economic management and fiscal policy (tax and spend) is to lessen and solve these disparaties. This remained a competence, power and responsibility of the UK and other memeber states and thus a failing on their parts.

            Not saying the EU has no responsibility but the UK had the tools to manage it and didn’t. People felt they were not benefitting from the status quo. They hark back to days when the UK ruled the waves, many not realising that world is gone.

            I watch with interest what new industries and opportunities will arise in these forgotten places. Or will it be more of the same with no Europe to blame?

          2. Charger Salmons

            I’ve yet to meet a single person in the UK who harks ” back to days when the UK ruled the waves, many not realising that world is gone. ”
            It’s a myth.
            And it’s also been called Charger’s Law on here for months.
            There’s hardly a person alive in the UK who remembers the Empire never mind wanting it back.
            You’ve fallen for the Irish media lies.

          3. Haroo

            To think our history has no effect on our present both in terms of outcomes and mentality is a pure fallacy.

            Why are the Austrians the most opposed to Turkish membership of the Union? Why are their silly attitudes toward the UK here? History dear boy. The UK remembers its past just as all communities do and that has an impact on its perception of itself and mindset. People unfortunately look to the past, the glory days when their present is not so fulfilling. Make America Great Again. Charger’s Laws, like the Pope, are not infallible just because you say so.

            Just one more thing on the previous point of the UK and its new project and reviving forgotten communities: The funny thing about trade deals is that just as your exporters retain tariff and quota free access so do others’ exporters retain access to yours. Competition remains. Limit the number of people that can live and work in low skilled industries and those industries will tend to go where their input costs are cheaper esp if they can export into your market tariff free.

            I genuinely do await and watch with great interest the revival of forgotten Britain.

          4. bisted

            …I’m sure I heard someone talking about ‘tiffin time’ just yesterday…now there’s someone harking after the raj I thought to myself, guvnor…

  3. bisted

    …when the present pandemic is defeated the history will emerge in minute chronological detail…some of the things we did will emerge as pivotal, good and bad, futile or life-saving…one thing I’m convinced of is that NPHET will be shown to be the true heroes without whom we would have been overwhelmed…

    1. GiggidyGoo

      National Public Health Emergency Team. NPHET

      Bisted, I believe they are winging it, most of the time. The ‘E’ in NPHET doesn’t ring through. The team has additions to its membership every so often. But the minutes of the meetings are usually a month, and longer, in arrears. Those new members therefore don’t have current minutes to refer to, and in my opinion therefore are lookers-on as they haven’t the proper information to hand. The ‘Emergency’ (E) doesn’t ring through.

      follow through on some of its recommendations of course would alleviate the situation, regardless of members. The decisions are taken by Government though, not NPHET who are in an advisory role.

      The heroes are actually the nurses, the shop assistants, the doctors etc. who put themselves out there in the danger zones.

      1. bisted

        …I agree wholeheartedly with your list of heroes…they deserve much more than a clap…I believe they should be entitled to a payment of the equivalent to the PUP rate…however…the advisory group known as NPHET are constantly villified and only a strong voice such as Holohan’s could be heard above the vested interests…

  4. Papi

    God Jul, alle sammen! Today is Christmas Day in Norway, not tomorrow, we’ll be having ribbe, roast crackling pork and red cabbage amongst other things. Wishing all at Broadsheet towers and beyond a Happy Christmas!

    1. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

      sounds delish, Merry Christmas Papi,
      I’ll miss the big seafood platter of french Christmas Eve !

      1. Papi

        There’s currently a seven hour long fixed shot TV program of ribbe in the oven. Exciting times, I’ll let you all know how it goes.

        1. Rosette of Sirius

          Got a new oven (kitchen actually) recently and it has a camera built in that allows you to keep an eye on things from phone or tablet as they’re cooking. Excellent for roasting, broiling and baking….

          1. Rosette of Sirius

            It’s a very swish Miele… it’s waaaay more complex then it ever needed to be but Madam Sirius wanted it so that was that. I also love a gadget and this year my one and only ‘Black Friday’ purchase was a Sous Vide. And I have to say the results have exceeded all my expectations. Half the dinner tomorrow is being prepped using it!

          2. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            oh wow ! I have always wanted one of those, when I get properly settled here I’m going back to gas rings , if you say you have those too, you’ll have hit my kitchen bingo :)

          3. Rosette of Sirius

            Both. Last kitchen was one of those wide gas range-like hobs. The new kitchen is modular. It’s a mix and match of two burner gas hob, 620mm induction hob and a thing called a teppanyaki hob. That’s a bit of craic to cook on. Gas is great to cook on but induction better and faster for precise low temps I find.

          4. Rosette of Sirius

            They make by and large the best of the best… you pay for it but still, they last and last.

          5. GiggidyGoo

            Pheck. A camera in a home oven.

            I can imagine it – you’re in the middle of a meeting, and call a pause while you open an app to check on the meat.

            God be with the times…etc.

      1. Papi

        There’s only four of us this year, two meat eaters, two vegetarians so the challenge to eat all the ribbe is lessened, bit still there. Thanks Millie, the same to you and yours, the baby must be a treat this time of year.

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