166 thoughts on “Thursday’s Papers

  1. Charger Salmons

    Charger’s Jab Jibber-Jabber™

    By the end of next week the UK will have vaccinated all of the stage 1-9 vulnerable groups that have accounted for 99% of coronavirus deaths.
    There are around 12million vaccine doses currently stored in the UK ready to be delivered.
    This week is expected to see a record number of doses administered and next week even more than that.
    Meanwhile due to their own utter incompetence the EU, with Ireland’s complicity, is threatening to take over production facilities of a vaccine that many European countries don’t want thanks to their own leaders casting spurious doubts on its effectiveness.
    The EU has lost the skirmish, the battle and the war and now they’re trying to re-write history.
    They, and this moribund Irish government that is supporting them wholeheartedly, have shafted all of you.
    You are the suckers who are keeping these deadbeats in power.

    Reply
      1. Charger Salmons

        Looking at it from a personal point of view Lady Charger and I had our first jab in Blighty at the weekend.
        This means we’re about three weeks away from having a 100% chance of not dying or being hospitalised with Covid and about 10 weeks away from our 2nd jab.
        So late May or early June for both jabs as opposed to some as yet unknown time in the summer here for our first jab.
        And there are 25 million other people in the UK in the same position.
        Whereas the EU failed to sign contracts as fast as the UK.
        It failed to licence as fast as the UK.
        It cast doubt on the effectiveness of the UK vaccine.
        It cast doubts on the safety of the UK vaccine.
        It’s now threatening to steal the UK vaccine because the UK has higher vaccination rates.
        And millions of vaccines are lying idle in fridges across Europe when they should be in arms preventing the deaths of some people that will inevitably happen.
        So yes, plenty more single than double dose vaccinations …

        Reply
    1. GiggidyGoo

      But, but, but – hasn’t the UK manufacturing facilities for vaccines? Self sufficient, almost?
      Boris’ plan to usurp the instructions by manufacturers and extend the time between first and second doses looks like coming back to bite him.
      And his cheerleading media push his story that’s it’s the rotters in the EU that are causing the problems.
      You and the your mateys are being played, and are been taken in big time. What a surprise (not!).

      Reply
      1. Charger Salmons

        Actually the plan has always has been to get groups 1-9 jabbed first, spend April concentrating on second doses for the earlier older groups then back up to full speed from May onwards.
        It’s working perfectly so far.
        529,119 new vaccinations yesterday alone.
        That’s about 1.3 million in three days or double Ireland’s total number.
        If that’s being played we’ll take it with thanks.

        Reply
        1. GiggidyGoo

          “It’s working perfectly so far.”
          Isn’t that the thing though? It’s ‘working’ as regards giving 1st jabs. The shortage will affect the rollout of 2nd jabs within a safe period between 1st and 2nd – and that safe period has already been extended by Dr. Boris.

          Reply
          1. Charger Salmons

            No the shortage won’t affect the roll-out of the second dose.
            It just means extending the age range for first jabs to under-50s is being slowed down in April to allow the capacity to be used for this instead.
            The UK has 12 million doses stockpiled.
            And a plan that takes account of any production disruption.
            Unlike Ireland and the EU.

          2. Charger Salmons

            Talking of cunning plans Ursula Von Der Baldrick hasn’t properly though through her latest wheeze.
            Threatening to take over European factories that make and export vaccines is great for the headlines.
            But in the case of Pfizer Biotech the lipids that go into their vaccines are produced elsewhere and are then imported to their European facilities for mass production.
            And guess where ?
            The USA and, er, the UK.
            For you, Frau Jabber, ze vaccine war is over.
            She’ll be gone before the end of the year.

    2. Papi

      Charger being charger. How terribly sad and pathetic.
      Two more spice bags and four bags of cans, stat!
      He’s just discovered he’s not wanted in either country, the poor sap.

      Reply
      1. Charger Salmons

        Actually you need to tidy up your link Bodger as it doesn’t work.
        Also, the article isn’t online yet.
        It’s sent out for free in advance of publication to anyone who provides the Spectator with an email address so there are no paywall issues which is why I provided it in full.

        Reply
          1. GiggidyGoo

            Lots of waffle in that. referring to ‘regulators agree’ but no link to who etc. More of Wolfgang’s writings: https://www.eurointelligence.com/column/time-to-pull-the-plug

            He writes in the link you supplied:
            “The UK’s vaccination strategy is now based almost entirely on the AstraZeneca vaccine, with 11 million doses administered so far.”

            Weren’t you lucky you get the Pfizer one? (That’s of course if you got one at all)

          2. Charger Salmons

            There have been more than 25 million vaccine doses administered in the UK.
            11 million of them are AZ.
            Surely even someone of your dubious intelligence can work out the maths.
            The UK has also signed deals for extensive supplies with producers of half a dozen vaccines.
            They did it a year ago while Ireland and Europe were still procrastinating. To save you looking the word up it means sat on their backsides doing nothing.
            It’s why Boris is currently knocking it out of the park in the polls and the BOGOF Taoisigh are deeply unpopular.

          3. Charger Salmons

            UK Health Secretary Matt Hancock a short time ago.
            “There will be no weeks in April with no first doses; there will be no cancelled appointments as a result of supply issues; second doses will go ahead as planned.”
            He tells the Commons that 12million second doses of covid vaccines will be administered next month and Moderna will start to supply vaccines to the UK “in the coming weeks”. “

          4. GiggidyGoo

            Well, if you’re prepared to take Wolfies Guardian piece on board, then shouldn’t you be likewise prepared to take that other article on board. “The UK’s vaccination strategy is now based almost entirely on the AstraZeneca vaccine”

    1. bertie blenkinsop

      I know I’m gonna sound like an aulfella here but….
      all the people recording that on their phones… just enjoy the moment FFS

      Reply
  2. Formerly known as @ireland.com

    The pundits are right. The Tories will keep using the EU as a bogey man. Like all populist regimes, they need an enemy to distract from their own failings. I hope the Scots escape soon.

    Reply
  3. GiggidyGoo

    HSE financial staff jump vaccine queue. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/hse-finance-staff-given-covid-jabs-despite-not-having-patient-facing-roles-40210201.html
    The details of the number involved haven’t been released. If it was more than five, then the ‘leftover’ excuse doesn’t wash.

    Elsewhere, Paul Reid has the benefit of the use of a State car and army driver to drive him from Leitrim to Dublin and back. (does he claim mileage expenses as well?). €420,000 – odd salary per annum. Think about that.

    Reply
  4. Charlie

    The Irish usually do very well at Cheltenham. However, it seems like British Horse Racing is a mess. Their prize money is dreadful all year round compared to that in Ireland.
    Cheltenham is their number one jumps showpiece and we’ve managed to take home almost 90% of their prize money thus far. It’s a free for all. Rubbing salt into their Brexit wounds. Iontach!

    Reply
  5. Clampers Outside

    A dad in Canada has gone to prison the charge of domestic abuse for not calling his 14 Yr old daughter a ‘boy’ and refusing to use ‘he’ or ‘him’…. Remember when Dr Jordan Peterson said this would happen and the Leftist-liberals and TRAs said it wouldn’t….
    Eh….
    We’re in the upside down for sure…

    A couple of pseudoscience pushers on here feeling proud, ready to double down, I’m sure.

    Reply
    1. Clampers Outside

      Correction, not in prison, but warrant issued for the charge of DA, and he has appeared in court.

      Read this story, the child is in clearly a distressed and worrying mental state. These mental health issues need treatment not indulgence idealogues are pushing on kids. These idealogues are nothing but child abusers as this case and many others have repeatedly shown!
      https://amp.thepostmillennial.com/rob-hoogland-canada-prisoner-of-conscience/?__twitter_impression=true

      Reply
      1. Nigel

        ‘These mental health issues need treatment not indulgence’

        Dear God in heaven. Most parents would do anything to help their kids. They would go through hell for them. Respecting their wishes in how they would like to be adressed is so laughably simple and easy and straightforward, what sort of complete narcissitic clown wouldn’t do that one tiny thing? And then to blow it up into a publicity storm and legal battle about their kid who I guarantee you will suffer because of this, because the Dad couldn’t bring himself to do one little thing the kid asked for. The biggest threat to trans kids is parents like this guy. The second biggest threat is clowns like you boosting this story with blatantly dishonest framing.

        Reply
    2. millie bobby brownie

      So, dad in question is refusing to call his child by their preferred pronouns, that’s the nub of it?

      Reply
          1. Clampers Outside

            No, nothing like that, as the report says *the charge* is for DA due to refusing to use pronouns.

          2. Clampers Outside

            That report says the not using the pronouns is a reason (among others) for his detention.

            No conflict, after all.

          3. ReproBertie

            So “a” reason. Not “the” reason. The court even ruled that referring to the child by their birth name or pronouns does not equate “to the kind of psychological or emotional abuse that would constitute ‘family violence’ under the (Family Law Act)”.

            He’s on one charge of contempt of court which was brought in following C.D.’s “June 2020, interview to a YouTube channel, where he’s alleged to have identified health-care providers, revealed information about A.B.’s mental health, medical status or treatments, and gave out information that could reveal C.D., A.B. and the mother’s identity.”

          4. Bitnboxy

            Oi, Itchy McScratchy, I would think as a parent this issue needs to be dealt with sensitively, not grandstanding and causing a likely troubled and vulnerable child more distress. It could actually be the case the child might be genuinely transsexual although given your choice of words, you doubt this is a thing.

            The further distress caused by the “father” might delight you in your culture-war obsession but a good parent would at least try and understand first. Is this father even living with this child?

            In any event, I doubt the story is as black and white as you or your pin-up Jordan Peterson might wish as pointed out by posters above who have actually done 5 seconds research.

          5. scottser

            clamps, that father has repeatedly breached court orders revealing his child’s identity and details of their medical history etc. he’s just being a dick. i’m not sure what his end game is here but if there’s one sure way to get your kid to hate you then follow his lead.

          6. Clampers Outside

            The child needs mental health care, not put on a path to a sex change.
            The father appears to be acting in a manner to prevent life altering treatments being commenced before proper mental health care is done.

            This is what changed in the UK, after the Keira Bell case, and that greater emphasis on mental health before being put on gender dysphoria affirmation treatment.

            All indications are that this is what the father is doing.

            You guys place different motivations on the father than I.

            Truth is, none of us know.

            What we do know is the affirmation approach to gender dysphoria is not best practice treatment as per the Keira Bell case in the UK.

          7. Clampers Outside

            As expected, his motivations are regarding the treatment… https://westernstandardonline.com/2021/03/father-who-was-silenced-by-judge-after-fighting-daughters-sex-change-faces-jail-this-week/

            Here’s another report on the case.
            The man doesn’t seem so bonkers at all, and in fact, if the case was going on in the UK, he’d have the law on his side, as per the Keira Bell case – because the “affirmation” approach is not used there anymore, and it a fight against an “affirmation” treatment he says he is fighting.

          8. Bitnboxy

            @scottser Indeed. This wonderful “father” has appeared to make the entire situation about himself. God help that poor child who deserves compassion and an approved plan compiled in the conjunction with specialists to give them a shot at a peaceful and healthy life and a chance to deal with their issue privately and sensitively. One thing is clear: this father does not have their child’s best interests at heart.

          9. Clampers Outside

            @Repro Bitn and Scotts….

            I believe that it is likely the father disagrees with the affirmation model of gender dysphoria treatment it would appear that his child is being put on.
            This model of gender dysphoria “treatment” has been highly criticised, and in the UK, after the Keira Bell case, is being effectively scrapped.
            If this so called “treatment” is the reason, which reads as though it is, for the father’s multiple breaches, I believe he may be justified.
            No parent should stand by if their child is being put forward for a treatment that is not recognised as in the patients’, the childs’, best interest.

            Will Canada go the way of the UK and make changes to procedural care that puts the mental health of the child first, as was done in the UK, that remains to be seen.

            None of us know the father’s motivations but I believe it is reasonable to see his actions are to prevent his child who is mentally unwell from being given life altering drugs.

          10. Clampers Outside

            No. As per the Keira Bell case, it is about proper care before moving to life altering procedures.

          11. Nigel

            The Secret Trans Police stole it and put it in jail with Jordan Peterson for not using the right pronouns

          12. ReproBertie

            You started off saying “A dad in Canada has gone to prison the charge of domestic abuse for not calling his 14 Yr old daughter a ‘boy’ and refusing to use ‘he’ or ‘him’”, moved on to “These idealogues are nothing but child abusers” and now we’re at the complete speculation of “I believe that it is likely…”

            A single google search showed the first statement to be incorrect and the rest is you venting your spleen based on easily disproved information.

          13. Clampers Outside

            A quick Google showed the first statement to be true! It is in the list of charges. And not just in the link I provided but also in the link that was supposedly to correct the comment.

          14. ReproBertie

            As the report clearly says: “In June 2020, C.D. gave an interview to a YouTube channel, where he’s alleged to have identified health-care providers, revealed information about A.B.’s mental health, medical status or treatments, and gave out information that could reveal C.D., A.B. and the mother’s identity.

            He was charged with contempt of court, and that matter will come before the court in April.

            On Tuesday, C.D. was back in court, arrested for allegedly breaching court orders again. The B.C. Prosecution Service told National Post that “the subsequent breach of court order allegations are being treated as aggravating circumstances.”

            He still faces just the one contempt of court charge, the prosecution service said.”

            That means “not calling his 14 Yr old daughter a ‘boy’ and refusing to use ‘he’ or ‘him’” may well be the aggravating circumstances but they are not why he is in jail.

          15. ReproBertie

            From the opening line of your latest link: “will return to court this week for breaching a gag order.”

        1. millie bobby brownie

          Sorry but I disagree with you wholly there, Clampers.

          I’m curious, if this is a case of the parent in question thinking I know best whilst ignoring his child’s wishes?

          The teenage years are very important in terms of development of sense of self, and while the parent may have felt they were acting for the best, to dismiss out of hand when your child shares this kind of wish you, these kinds of feelings, surely you’re obligated to listen and to *support* as best you can. Especially if it is affecting their mental wellbeing. And this doesn’t just apply to vulnerable children and young people, it is a central pillar to any kind of therapy.

          I genuinely think your prejudice against trans people (because dress it up however you like, that is what it sounds like) affects how you interpret news stories like this.

          Reply
          1. Clampers Outside

            No, the child had mental health issues and attempted suicide prior to the issues of gender dysphoria manifesting.

            The father knows this and would prefer his child got proper help rather than indulge the dysphoria.

            That is not a transphobic position Millie.

          2. millie bobby brownie

            I didn’t say the father was transphobic.

            However, he is in breach of multiple court orders and has broken the law. He may feel that what he wants for his child is the more appropriate course of action, and that’s his right as a parent, but his child is entitled to their rights too, and while using the incorrect pronouns seems a silly reason to imprison someone, the issue that has this man in court is that he has breached court orders relating to the wellbeing of this child.

          3. Bitnboxy

            Oi, Itchy McScratchy, I would think as a parent this issue needs to be dealt with sensitively, not grandstanding and causing a likely troubled and vulnerable child more distress. It could actually be the case the child might be genuinely transsexual although given your choice of words, you doubt this is a thing.

            The further distress caused by the “father” might delight you in your culture-war obsession but a good parent would at least try and understand first and investigate the correct course with experts. Is this father even living with this child?

            In any event, I doubt the story is as black and white as you or your pin-up Jordan Peterson might claim.

          4. Clampers Outside

            Funny that you say he should investigate, when that is what he has done.

            And he tried to speak up about same but has been gagged from doing so.

            Maybe you just don’t like what he has to say.

          5. Junkface

            This will make parenting even more challenging when kids reach their teenage years. As reported by Abigail Shrier in her book, what used to be normal teenage angst and confusion during puberty is now being diagnosed as body dysmorphia, because teens are very susceptible to peer pressure and cultural trends. I think this has jumped by more than 500% in recent years, which is an alarming increase and would mean a lot of cases are misguided, compared to statistics before this trend occurred.

            Even recorded numbers of teenage girls identifying as lesbian have plummeted, they are opting for transitioning genders instead.

          6. millie bobby brownie

            That’s a really good point. It’s something that I’m so conscious of as my daughter gets older – the kinds of peer pressures she will face are so different from my own experiences, and I think every parent has to face up to that fear at some point. That’s why making the right choice in a difficult situation as a parent is so important and so scary. And unfortunately it can’t be about what the parent feels is right but about what is right for the child’s overall wellbeing – and sometimes that doesn’t match up. And this obviously applies to not just this specific situation. And then of course there’s the fact that, even with best interests, things don’t always work out for the better.

          7. Clampers Outside

            +1 Junk.

            Those who deny this and push the dysphoria line as the only answer are in denial of the facts.

          8. Oro

            Or people with gender dysphoria were being shut down and told they were suffering with “normal teenage angst”, not being properly listened to and therefore not receiving the care they needed.

            Before conditions are medically described or denoted they still exist, it’s not like trans people only came into being in the last couple of decades. This is very “you’re not gay it’s just a phase” i.e. people telling people to deny their reality because it makes society uncomfortable.

          9. Clampers Outside

            No, not what was said, not by myself nor Junk.

            Also, see the use of the word “only”.

          10. Nigel

            Ridiculous argument. Who the hell would claim to be trans who is not? ‘Peer pressure to be trans?’ Are you all completely loopy? You know what makes parenting challenging? Lack of supports for kids who need them, access to alcohol and pornography, online and offline bullying. The biggest threat to trans kids is transphobic parents, the biggest challenege faced by parents of trans kids is what appears to be a massive scare campaign comparable to the Satanic Panic or the Gay Agenda campaigns, where someone like Clampers can blithely turn up and lie to us that a father is in jail becuase he didn’t use the right pronouns and even when it’s shown to be a lie, people will still act all concerned that the real problem here is kids thinking they’re trans, when the actual problem is other people not liking that kids think they’re trans.

            Here’s a simple chart that addresses all your concerns:

            https://www.qlik.com/blog/assets/uploads/images/assets/uploads/elif-1.jpg

          11. Nigel

            ‘The father knows this and would prefer his child got proper help rather than indulge the dysphoria.’

            That is transphobia you idiot.

          12. Clampers Outside

            No, it is a request that she get proper treatment and not affirmation as per my mail above. You do know that 80% of kids with GD grow out of it… I know you already know this. Its been discussed, linked to and confirmed before.

          13. Junkface

            Of course you would say this is ridiculous Nigel. Have you listened to any of these authors who have researched this topic and these trends in depth? There are also lesbian authors who are writing about this very issue. This is not scare tactics for control or something. These are real issues and concerns from parents who do not want their children doing unnecessary or irreversible damage. Instead of immediately picking sides and calling people TERFS why don’t you open your mind and think of typical human responses and risks on an immature mind.

          14. Clampers Outside

            He doesn’t read anything g other than headlines and TRA ideological pseudoscience as his commentary has proven time and time again.

          15. Nigel

            YOU LITERALLY POSTED A STORY FRAMED IN AN IDEOLOGICALLY DRIVEN TRANSHPOBIC LIE CLAMPERS SO WHY DON’T YOU STEP OFF.

          16. Clampers Outside

            A call for proper care is not framing in an ideological lie ffs.

            Two words – Keira Bell

          17. Clampers Outside

            I wouldn’t say that, but you do go the pseudo-scientific route with a disregard for proper patient care.

          18. Nigel

            ‘why don’t you open your mind and think of typical human responses and risks on an immature mind.’

            Imagine trans kids seeing a story going round about a Dad sent to jail for not using the right pronouns. Hey, kids, if you ask your parents to call you a different pronoun, and they say no, they could go to jail! And it’ll be all your fault! For being trans! How’s about that for pressure! IDIOTS.

          19. Clampers Outside

            Nigel, your scenario is bull.
            And nothing like the actual fact that you push and advocate for drug experimentation on kids and the poor patient practice of proper mental health care.

            You touted that gender dysphoria “affirmation” model prevents GD kids suicide even when you were told that research was bull, and that the research results were hidden intentionally and actually showed the treatment can have the opposite effect and kids will more likely be more suicidal.
            Why would anyone listen to you on this topic when you have repeatedly acted like a child on the subject, abuse those who disagree and refuse to, deny even, the truth about treatments as has been shown in courts in the UK.

            Your slurs mean nothing.

          20. Nigel

            You. Lied. The story is a lie.
            Transphobes will not provide the care that trans kids need. If you don’t love or respect your kid enough to do the absolute bare minimum and call them by their chosen pronous, you’re only ever going to make them suffer.

          21. Clampers Outside

            Wrong. You get them the mental health care they need before taking an affirmation approach.

            This was confirmed in the Keira Bell case to be the better approach and has resulted in changes in practice.

          22. Nigel

            You are lying again. I have never touted any treatment or model becuase I am not a self-proclaimed expert, but I do know enough to spot a hate campaign when one comes trundling along. Deceitfully framing stories to drive shock and outrage, for example, is what hate campaigns do.

          23. Clampers Outside

            You have supported and advocated for the Tavistock approach which was the affirmation model which was among other things said to be by the judge to amount to child experimentation.

            You have bullied and abused anyone who spoke against that poor patient care model.

          24. Nigel

            ‘A call for proper care is not framing in an ideological lie ffs.’

            ‘A dad in Canada has gone to prison the charge of domestic abuse for not calling his 14 Yr old daughter a ‘boy’ and refusing to use ‘he’ or ‘him’…. Remember when Dr Jordan Peterson said this would happen and the Leftist-liberals and TRAs said it wouldn’t….’

            For extra irony:

            ‘He doesn’t read anything g other than headlines and TRA ideological pseudoscience’

          25. Nigel

            ‘You have bullied and abused anyone who spoke against that poor patient care model.’

            I criticsed transphobia hiding behind fake ‘concern’ for trans kids. Just like this little fake story of yours.

          26. Clampers Outside

            More denial of your role in pushing TRA ideology and experimentation on kids.

            You do know the mother signed documents stating that the child would be undergoing an “experimental” treatment with the administration of these drugs. Drugs that have up to 100% continuance to life altering surgery…. But yeah, you know that, but still deny the questionable ethics and standard of care of that practice.

          27. Junkface

            “I criticsed transphobia hiding behind fake ‘concern’ for trans kids. Just like this little fake story of yours.” – Nigel

            How do you know that anybody’s concerns are fake? I think what Clampers stated above :
            “You get them the mental health care they need before taking an affirmation approach.”
            … that is the mature and considerate approach to such delicate situations. This was also suggested by many authors on this particular topic. Also just stating “listen to trans people” as your only accepted action is completely one sided. Why not listen to parents concerns too? And we are not talking about trans people here, but teenage kids considering making a life changing decision that they may or may not be thinking clearly about.

          28. Clampers Outside

            Don’t forget, “listen to trans people” mens listen to those he agrees with.

            (preempt : yes, this could be said the same of me.
            There is a difference… in summary…

            Nigel only listens to those who support the known to be bad practice of the “affirmation” approach.

            Where as I support the trans persons who want better care, support new research, and new evidence of best practice, and those who have already been through the “affirmation” approach and understand the life changing consequences of it, and look to prevent child experimentation that leads to the life changes…. And he calls such a position, ‘transphobic’.)

          29. Oro

            Same tactic was used by homophobes when gay rights were being established “oh we’re just concerned about children” people would reframe their hatred in a way that would position themselves just as concerned noble citizens, advocating for rights of children when in reality they were using it as a mechanism to deny gay people equal rights, access to healthcare, employment etc etc.

            The past precedence is undeniable. I recognize it for what it is because I’ve experienced that kind of covert hate before too in a fashion. It’s so cynical.

          30. Clampers Outside

            An old throw away comment. Easily rubbished by the facts of the Keira Bell case and the stories told be detransitioners.

            Not to mention gay groupsike LGBAlliance who call that kind of commentary total rubbish.

          31. Oro

            The similarities in how groups are concealing their hatred under the guise of ‘caring for children’ is not disproved by Keira Bell’s case. I’d suggest you not to take a group like the LGB alliance as indicative of the general feeling within the LGBT community, which is thankfully united and supportive of the shared struggle of all members of the community.

            Certain conservative governments are taking advantage of people like you to scream sensationalist lies and misinformation about trans people (as you have evidenced above (thank you for providing handy reference btw)) which provides a total smokescreen for their own damaging policies and is an attempt to remove themselves from liability. Women’s refuges are in danger because of cuts to local council budgets, not from the occasional trans person that needs to avail of their services. Similarly women in prisons in the UK are at danger from the patriarchal prison system, not the 6 trans women that are incarcerated.

          32. Oro

            You lied, upthread. About the circumstances of the case, and then you misrepresented and muddled facts throughout the thread. It’s right there.

          33. Clampers Outside

            I lied about nothing.

            What people have issue with is the report in the link.

            I muddled nothing neither. I responded to comments.

          34. Clampers Outside

            The “LGBT” Community is not united, as the LGBAlliance wouldn’t exist if it were not for the rift in the community.
            You’re making stuff up, and ignoring what is actually happening.

          35. Oro

            The LGBT community is generally and overwhelmingly united thanks. I have some first hand experience of the matter rather than what you’ve gleaned off Twitter bots.

            There are always going to be extremes in any group a la Milo Yiannopolous but they are a negligible minority. Your experience of life is being bent by an online algorithm sorry. I can vouch through lived experience that the lgbt community is absolutely supportive of the trans community.

          36. Clampers Outside

            A co-founder of Stonewall has with much support broken away to form a new group.

            These are not extremists.

            It is significant, and not some twitter nonsense.

          37. Oro

            Linking to a letter by a couple of individuals does not prove that the lgbt community is split on the issue sorry. If anything it proves my point that there are some outliers with differing opinions but it is not broadly true of LGBT people. You read these samples (provided to you by an algorithm which knows you want to read them) and it affirms or reinforces your pre-determined beliefs. It’s just not the case in real life.

          38. Clampers Outside

            Wrong. This is a person who is an campaigner, and campaign organiser within what was the “LGBT community” stating a point of disagreement. A point which has been noted among those in the LGBAlliance as being divisive and contentious.

          39. Nigel

            What I support is transphobes being kept away from the treatment of trans kids. They’re the ones you find posting deceitfully framed stories to push shock and outrage.

          40. Clampers Outside

            Call me what you want Nigel, it’s meaningless coming from you a self admitted child experimentation supporter.

          41. Nigel

            ‘How do you know that anybody’s concerns are fake?’

            He posted a faked-up story, for a start. He also keeps lying about my ‘advocating treatments’ I don’t even bother to correct it any more.

          42. Clampers Outside

            No lie at all.

            You’ve abused anyone that has pointed out the problems with the affirmation approach to treating gender dysphoria, and advocated for it when saying that those persons are trying to remove treatment.
            So, I say again, no lie at all.

            ,And you dismiss detransition stories as pawns of transphobes.
            You’ve done it below in this thread, and done it in previous threads when this topic has come up.

          43. Clampers Outside

            Nope. You’ve specifically mentioned detransitioners in your dismissing of them, and not the poster, which was myself.

            I was appalled which is why I remember it.

          44. Nigel

            Why would anyone trust your recollecton of anything?

            ‘the LGBAlliance’

            Literally trans exclusionary.

          45. Oro

            Trans people are not homophobic, and if they were it could only exist on the micro level. Heterosexual people as a group are the ones that enact homophobia, and are the group with enough political influence to turn homophobia into damaging legislation and social behaviours. Much like they are doing with regards to transphobia. See the Keira Bell case.

            Putting homophobia onto the backs of trans people is blatant lying and deception.

          46. benblack

            Is this still going on?

            Yes, yes it is.

            Clampers is completely correct on this issue, Nigel.

            It is human hubris to think gender and sex is a personal choice – disorder into chaos.

            Such a bright and enlightened future – glad I only have a few years left on this planet.

            Remember, Nigel, you fought for this.

            Was it for this?

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cX8szNPgrEs

        2. Formerly known as @ireland.com

          Why the obsession with this? I would have thought that growing up seeing how people are mistreated because of labels placed on people – sinner, illegitimate, Taig, proddy, knacker, etc, you might think it was a good idea to let people be what they want to be. That is how I approach these things. If a person wants to identify as something that doesn’t impinge on me or others, go for it.

          Reply
          1. Clampers Outside

            I too couldn’t care less what people identify as in their personal lives.

            This is about medical transition of children, poor care and a father wanting better care for his mentally ill child.

      1. Clampers Outside

        Pushing transition on a child has been shown to be just that with parents rather their child transition than be found to be gay.

        Additionally, many detransitioners, if you read their stories, have said they had issues with their own sexuality and the TRA ideology confused them.

        Reply
        1. Nigel

          ‘If you read their stories’

          If you trust the interpretation of someone who just posted a deceitfully framed story to promote scaremongering about trans people and liberals and whatever.

          Reply
          1. Nigel

            What, for more stories ike this one on sites like that? And I woudn’t take your word for anything.

        2. Daisy Chainsaw

          Did you get those detransitioner stories from the same dubious “conservative” website that you were touting earlier?

          Reply
          1. Clampers Outside

            Google ’em… You’ ll find them all over the net. Plenty on YouTube speaking of their experiences. Mostly young woem who say they were ill informed before treatments that lead to having had a mastectomy.

          2. Clampers Outside

            They all have common threads in their stories…
            Poor pre-care.
            Lack of proper mental health checks.
            Drug experimentation.

            And so much more.

          3. Clampers Outside

            And of course…. the major issue of an “affirmation” approach to treatment is common to all these stories. Without that approach, this conversation wouldn’t be happening.

          4. Nigel

            And these stories are being used as leverage to create a moral panic and deny trans kids proper care.

          5. Clampers Outside

            No, they are being used to get proper care because the care those kids got which you want to maintain, was poor care… Life changing and destructive.

            You know that, and you ignore them and their stories and their pleas for proper care.

          6. Daisy Chainsaw

            Any time I read about Kiera Bell, all I can think of is the women who pushed their “abortion regret” stories during the repeal referendum. “I regret it so nobody should have it.”

          7. Clampers Outside

            Move passed what you have just acknoedged as a bias then…. and at least try to look at with a fresh perspective.

          8. Oro

            Context not bias. It’s a very similar circumstance. Healthcare that is approved by doctors being provided, certain patients in small numbers experiencing a regret after it, and conservatives using those patients as pawns in their game to deny people access to that medically approved healthcare. Also a large dose of misogyny is congruent in the groups advocating for denial of medical service.

          9. Clampers Outside

            The concern over poor patient care is well documented and reported.

            Just because some persons of undesireable motivation jump in doesn’t make those reports any less true.

            Stop trying to assert motivation for concern and look at the facts of the care, the proven facts, and the patients who have been through the poor standard of care.

            .
            .
            .

            Let’s be clear:

            The standard of care was reviewed.

            It was found to be failing patients.

            Some patients have had the courage to speak out about that failing.

            And you guys are rubbishing, dismissing that.

            You guys are imposing on them motivations you want them to have for coming forward.

            Seriously Oro…. Wtf…

          10. Junkface

            Come on people. There are enough links posted there from valid news sources and mainstream news to show that this is a growing concern among parents about their growing kids. I really don’t understand anyone saying that these are only being pushed by TERFS or people who hate trans people. If you follow the facts laid out by people researching this topic, or listen to writers and scientists discussing this on many podcasts, you will see that they are trying to approach this with compassion and care. Listen to Abigail Shrier or Jonathan Haidt, its not hard to find.

          11. Nigel

            ‘Parents with trans kids have concerns’ is not a controversial statement. It’s incredibly obvious. Anyone can say it because it’s always going to be true, especially transphobes trying to leverage those concerns to deny trans kids risghts and access to treatment. Think of it like Charger’s obnoxious nationalism about the UK vax rollout. Charger being obnoxious doesn’t mean that the rollout isn’t a success, but the rollut being a success doesn’t make Charger any less of a lying obnoxious nationalist trying to obscure the UK’s disastrous covid death toll, and numerous other issues.

          1. Clampers Outside

            My point was you should maybe look at the mother’s reasons the way you do the fathers.

            She may not be an example of that motivation, but it is odd that you ignore it.

          2. Daisy Chainsaw

            You never mentioned the mother, just ranted on about a father going to jail for not referring to his child as his son. And that story turned out to be a misrepresentation of what actually happened.

          3. Clampers Outside

            I was responding to your comment that closed with the words “child abuse” when I brought up the transition being used by parents to hide the idea of their child being gay.
            I mentioned the mother not being looked at all in the manner the father has been in that regard.

            The story is not misrepresented.

          4. Nigel

            ‘I brought up the transition being used by parents to hide the idea of their child being gay.’

            Aw God what even is this?

          5. Clampers Outside

            They’d rather their child transition than face the fact the child is probably gay.

          6. Clampers Outside

            This also shows the concerns over the practices in care that you defend.
            And let’s be clear what that means. Practices you defend, are deemed to be of poor standard of care, a level of care desired by those who are homophobic. That’s what you’ve been defending, and you know this, as this has been pointed out to you before.

        1. Steph Pinker

          What? Vanessa, your levels of paranoia and delusion are worrying. I was being humorous in replying to you above, but that’s the last time I will ever engage with you on BS because I’ve seen how your mind works; the vitriolic and bullying comments you regularly post on BS to other commenters are unfounded yet you wear your persecution complex like a badge.

          I work with animals day and night, I’ve yet to encounter one as rabid as you.

          Reply

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