‘Not Linked’

at

Last night/this morning.

Via Reuters:

Reuters presented the claims to British Airways, which said they were unfounded and that no such talks were underway with the government. The spokesperson, however, confirmed the authenticity of the four condolence books, as four company pilots had recently passed away. “Our thoughts are with their family and friends,” they said, adding that none of the deaths was linked to vaccines.

Fact Check-British Airways is not in ‘crisis talks’ with the government over vaccinated pilots (Reuters)

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65 thoughts on “‘Not Linked’

  1. freewheeling

    “Our advice remains that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks in the majority of people.”

    Until it doesn’t.

    It’s too late already for the minority in whom the risks (undisclosed) outweighed the benefits.

    This is not how medicine is done.

    1. Ronan

      What?

      That is PRECISELY how medicine is done.
      – We do surgery to help with physical issues, despite carrying a small risk of death.
      – We take drugs to help with conditions, despite the side effect risks that these carry.
      – We poison people with chemotherapy, in the hope that we kill more bad cells than good cells and don’t leave the person too open to complications from infections, or later life osteoporosis etc.
      – We give lots of vaccines to achieve herd community, despite some risks.

      You have a choice. It’s your body.

      1. freewheeling

        Individualised cases. Global trial vaccine rollout – under an emergency authorization only (not approval) – to the entire population (whether individuals require it or not) is an entirely new phenomenon.

        What are the risks to an individual from this vaccine, exactly?

        Until you can answer that, you are not given (or giving) informed choice, you are given an uninformed choice, which is unethical.

        Ethical pharma protocols dictate monitoring of Phase 3 candidates for up to 2 years before entering into Phase 4 trials (rollout to the wider population). These vaccines are not even technically out of Phase 3 trial due to their EUA grant, and – aside from lack of any long term side effect data yet – the clinical monitoring system to do exactly that is not keeping up with it, and discussions about what longer term risks those are actually pointing to is censored even within the medical community because nothing is allowed to be suggested that would lead to “vaccine hesitancy.” Herd immunity rollout is considered paramount.

        Statistically significant scenarios like four young vaccine deaths in a week, in an occupation known to frequently expose employees to clot risk conditions, warrants investigation, not dismissal.

        The greater the exposed population, the more prudence required.

        Whatever happened to “an abundance of caution”?

        Four deaths in a clinical trial would be enough to halt rollout, and provoke revision of the trial protocol.

        That is how pharmaceutical medicine is done.

      2. Donna Lyons-Whearty

        People take medication because they have a condition or illness for which the medication is much NEEDED. People have chemotherapy because they do not really have any other option, they want to survive cancer. People have surgery because it is needed, whether it is a hip/knee operation or a life saving operation. Giving a experimental vaccine to a person who has a 99.8% chance of survival should they have the virus is damned right stupidity and yes we do have a choice!

    2. Centerest dad

      thanks Dr freewheeling
      c’mere and have a look at my colon when you’re done doctoring in the broadsheet.ie comments section

  2. eoin

    I hate to speculate. But Spain and Russia have advised people who’ve had the ‘vaccine’ not to fly due to the potential dangers of high altitude blood clotting. I would assume this goes for pilots too.

      1. Fergalito

        “I hate to speculate” – the cheek of him … lol …

        Sure all he does is speculate and make outlandish unsupported remarks.

        Doesn’t he contradict himself frequently too – sometimes in the same post.

        Likes to name-call and plays the man, not the ball (I’m not using that overworked other word for it).

        Leaving Cert next year, twill soften his cough.

  3. SOQ

    BA has assured the public there is no connection but unless all four were unvaccinated, which is highly unlikely, until post-mortems are done they cannot actually give such an assurance.

    1. Col

      I suppose they can if they died of other explained circumstances? Maybe one drowned and one was hit by a bus etc. It’s not really any of our business though.

      1. SOQ

        True but one was found unconscious in a park so in that case at least, a physical accident was unlikely.

        Actually, it is our business because if there is a link then it becomes a huge safety issue. If these men all died of what is referred to as ‘natural causes’ then it is an almighty coincidence. I see the Daily Mail is running with exposure to cabin fuel fumes as the cause?

    2. Cian

      Funny how important “private medical information” is when you have people refusing to wear masks on trains or when you have people entering the country.

      But when four pilots die – there is a clamour for these pilot’s “private medical information” to be released in full – people on twitter are demanding their postmortem details should be released!!

      “private medical information” for me but not for thee?

      1. SOQ

        Err that is because they are actually responsible for flying the planes?

        Nobody would care less if they were sitting in a passenger seat- try harder Cian.

    3. Daisy Chainsaw

      Maybe they all died of a shared venereal disease.

      Maybe it was a suicide pact.

      Maybe they drank bleach laced with Ivermectin and Oxywoxypoxywoo to save themselves from magnetic ouchies.

      I’m just speculating.

  4. Des

    Why would B/sheet Bodger publish this? Like really? Can anyone answer? For the crack? Cos he thinks its a conspiracy? Cos he thinks they are linked? For a site that regularly takes the piss out of the media they are he is doing a fair job of being a laughing stock themselves himself.

    1. Col

      In their his defence, it gives people a chance to see some of the theories that are popping up and educate themselves.
      Like now, if someone says something about this in a social setting, I can say it’s bs as I have looked into it.

      That’s just my take. Good to try and see all sides of a thing. Helps understand why some people are genuinely frightened of the vaccine too.

      1. Des

        @Col Yeah I get that but is just some sort of wooly story with a wildly wide off the mark commentary.
        It could be four doctors or nurses or firemen. Theres the inference of a correlation without any real story.
        Four people died who were pilots? So what? (RIP BTW)

        Vaccine related? If so then why are Pilots in other airlines not dying?

        1. Mr. T

          In fairness, most of these thigns start out as “wild speculation” and “conspiracy theory” until such a point as they are accepted as fact.

          It may turn out to be coincidence, it may well turn out to be another issue with some of the fastest vaccines to market in decades.

  5. Broadbag

    This is up there with ‘Christian Eriksson collapsed and had a heart attack because he had taken the vaccine ZOMG!’ it’s disrespectful to the people involved, it spreads fear and it’s a load of old cobblers.

  6. millie bobby brownie

    Is this the theme of the week or something, Bodger? If so, I’ll refer you to my reply to f_lawless over on the papers page.

    1. Johnny

      4 fit as can be pilots,I assume they passed physicals recently.
      Also far assume they got vaccinated.
      Reported by Reuters.
      I’d like know where they have been recently,as I’m flying again,don’t you ?

      1. SOQ

        Yes its not like four hairdressers or florists- they have a very though medical at least once a year and every six months over a certain age.

        If they can’t spot issues with them then there really isn’t much hope for the rest of us.

        1. Johnny

          Look me like BA pilots were guinea pigs for testing effects of new British vaccines and flying,hot take its not a great mix,clearly more pilot data needed.

          1. Johnny

            i absolutely do NOT trust british govt-if any country had bad outcomes with flying and its own rapidly dev and deployed vax it just had,had be the brits so yes totally biased,never bought into the GREAT BRITISH MEDICAL MIRACLE,did you ?

          2. Can a Da?

            yep, he’s not even fit to be a paramilitary, more like a lad that would have a pint or two and he’d be singing ‘Come out ye black and tans’ in some grotty ghetto pub in Shoreditch or on Woodside

        2. Cian

          Putting Covid and vaccines aside for a moment.

          Do you realise the pilots can get serious illnesses (like hairdressers and florists)?

          If they get a serious illness they are still “pilots”. They may still be employed by BA so would be “BA pilots”. Their serious illness may have been picked up during their annual check.

          1. Johnny

            ‘They’ve had the third BA pilot die in the last seven days, yeah? Third pilot dead in the last week,” says the man heard in the recording. “The first two guys were in their forties and fifties; this guy, mid-thirties, perfectly fit, no underlying conditions. He gets his second jab and he’s dead within days, exactly the same with the first two…..

            Link above,what the odds you think this happening ?

          2. Cian

            @Johnny
            The link to Reuters? which has been “Shared in the form of a voice recording on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, an unidentified male says he has spoken to a “friend who’s a BA pilot””

            You are basing this on an anonymous audio recording? Seriously?

          3. SOQ

            @ Cian. My point is they have the best medicals available, including a detailed safety audit and because of the responsibility of their jobs, so they should.

          4. Cian

            @SOQ
            Your point is meaningless speculation until there is more information on the 4 pilots.

          5. SOQ

            No it’s not- by nature of thier profession they had the best medical monitoring procedures available.

            All of them died with something not spotted in their previous examinations or more likely, by something with has occurred since then.

            It’s also reasonable to assume they were all recently vaccinated for Covid-19.

            Dots. Join.

          6. Can a Da?

            come out and fight me like a man Cian!
            Show your wives how you won medals arsa Sheamusín

      2. Cian

        @Johnny
        4 fit as can be pilots,I assume they passed physicals recently.

        Why do you assume that? They might be four BA pilots that are on long-term sick leave.

        1. Johnny

          Why do you assume this ?

          -is a complete coincidence to the other three; and isn’t vaccine related-

          So if they long term sickies they have be frail and already a bit fooked,hard believe they reported everywhere as ‘pilots’ not described as grounded/retired/on leave but believe what you like….

          1. Cian

            @Johnny
            You are basing this on an anonymous audio recording? Blown out of proportion by anti-vaxxers on social media. Again, Seriously?

          2. Johnny

            not at all,i’m basing it on dead BA pilots,id also hazard a guess that its highly unusual in any June for BA to ahem ‘lose’ 4 members of its pilot community or otherwise.

            there was a chap here daily boasting about the brits gung ho attitude to science/vaccines/injections all very ‘dads army’ in its banality-now we have dead brit pilots but no grand reopening…i’m starting doubt Johnson:)

            NY is open no restrictions and no dead Delta pilots.

          3. Cian

            great, you’ve gone from “4 fit as can be pilots,I assume they passed physicals recently.” to ” 4 members of its pilot community “.

            it’s a start.

          1. Cian

            I’m doing the opposite of spinning.

            *you* are spinning it. Taking a report of dead pilots and putting an anti-vaccine spin on it with zero evidence.

            I’m asking for a little bit more evidence than a Facebook post of an anonymous audio recording of someone who mate told him…

            Seriously?

            Where is you evidence that one was an active pilot?

  7. An older man

    Hello from 2000km away. I do enjoy the contributions from Bodger, SOQ et al. The vicious attacks on them are just that. Please stand firm in such adversity. I do enjoy inter alia Bret Weinsteins work. He is putting up the radar for reproductive and bone marrow areas for bad outcomes. Might be good for cool heads and wise eyes to look that way too. I did note a ref to Indian pilot deaths but I have no real evidence. Wishing for more interesting nuggets of truth both pro & anti. I am reminded of a fight in the school yard so many years ago. Always aghast at the viciousness of the crowd goading the fight on. Decades later little changes to these older eyes.

    1. SOQ

      Thank you old gent. The ad hominem attacks from the lazy are part of the course, as is the moonlighting journal.ie “fact checker”, who clearly knows more than half the scientific medical community.

      And then there’s Joe, who rants daily about how broadsheet.ie has gone down a rabbit hole- because his web browser has malware and keeps redirecting him to the site.

      1. Can a Da?

        I like an older gent too. I also like your contributions for the most part soq. I don’t often agree with all that many of them to be honest, especially when they veer into racism, which I find distasteful, but I am glad that Broadsheet is giving you and other intelligent folks of your calibre a platform to at least ask a few pertinent questions now and again. Carry on

  8. Micko

    Probably best to keep speculation to a minimum on this one.

    Sure, for all we know, two or more could have been suicide – bad old time for pilots at the mo and these things tend to happen in groups.

    Very sad either way.

    Very young men looking at their pics.

    1. italia'90

      Have to agree with you on this one Micko.
      Less speculating, less emotional responses and more examination of the facts,
      all will be available in due time.
      No harm in keeping an open mind until then?

      There have been 4 suicides in the past 12 months locally, all in stressful jobs.
      2 Dublin Fire Brigade and Ambulance Service personnel and
      2 Young pilots Daniel(CZE) and Piotr(POL), both left young families behind.
      We don’t know what’s going on in other peoples lives, so give others a little bit of patience,
      personal space and consideration when you are in public.
      Less aggression towards each other would be great too. Won’t cost you anything.

      And perhaps some of the Chateau Generals from the 101st Chairborne Division might
      go easy on the personal attacks, especially with those who are obviously experiencing media sensory overload, undue stress or pressure and use this site as a possible vent/crutch to get them thru all this.

      Just chill and enjoy your weekend – or have at it and see if you can burst a blood vessel.

      C’mon The Hairy Ginger Scotts!
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yea3vQttghM&ab_channel=BackofthenetTVBackofthenetTV

  9. Nigel

    This is throwing poo at the wall to see what sticks, and even if nothing does, there’ll be poo all over the place.

    1. Steph Pinker

      Nigel, are you a scatologist?

      I’m just wondering because I need to make a few quid on the side other than my Painting Hn Decorating degree.

      1. Can a Da?

        Actually Steph this is more Nigel’ stock in trade, you should have added a few more letters…

        eschatology
        /ˌɛskəˈtɒlədʒi/
        the part of theology concerned with death, judgement, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind.
        “Christian hope is concerned with eschatology, or the science of last things”

  10. Joe

    For the fools who imagine and lie that 4 BA pilots dying is somehow linked to vaccination you should check out their Air India colleagues who have died of Covid due to a lack of vaccination

    ‘No Vaccine, May Have Killed My Husband’: Air India Pilot’s Wife
    https:///news/india/covid-19-vaccine-air-india-pilot-deaths-sandeep-rana-gps-gill-wives-speak#read-more
    Shalu Rana, wife of Air India Pilot, Captain Sandeep Rana, is still trying to come to terms with the death of her husband, who died due to COVID-19 on 13 May 2021.
    Captain Rana is one of five Air India Pilots who lost their lives due to COVID in the month of May. He flew the Boeing 787 Dreamliner and had been operating mostly Vande Bharat flights and cargo flights since May 2020.

    COVID Kills 5 Air India Pilots, But No Insurance Beyond Rs 10 Lakh
    https://www.thequint.com/news/india/covid-19-deaths-air-india-pilots-no-insurance#read-more

    The Indian Pilots’ Guild wrote multiple letters in April 2021 to the Health Minister Harsh Vardhan and to the Chairman and Managing Director of Air India to consider pilots as frontline workers and start vaccinating them. But the vaccine drive for pilots started only on 15 May – by then four pilots had lost their lives due to COVID between 9-14 May.

  11. Aegis

    Just came back to this site to see if it was covid conspiracy free yet. Alas not. Really used to enjoy this site. Pity.

    It would be interesting to later collate all of Bodgers posts on covid and ask if anything ever came true or was ever vindicated.

  12. jessup mcdonaub

    1 died -*of covid*
    another died of abdominal trauma from a biking accident

    i don’t know about the other two.

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