140 thoughts on “Bank Holiday Monday’s Papers

    1. Daisy Chainsaw

      You better duck cos Micko will be chucking an absolute hissy fit for you mentioning that people are dying. He’s such a sensitive little snowflake.

        1. f_lawless

          Doesn’t seem to understand the role corporate media often plays in molding public perception to suit powerful vested interests and hence the need for scepticism.

          Not interested in seeking out a range of opinion for a wider context. Is led along by whatever comes under the media spotlight. No interest once corporate media has moved on to the next sensariionalist story. The unfolding situation in India being case in point.

          Lack of any depth in understanding as to what’s going on, has reduced person to latching onto fear and lashing out at internet memes from 2020 (the ‘it’s just a flu people’) as a form of compensation

          1. Django O'Reilly

            Has zero ability to critically identify source materials with anti-Western disruption agenda, perhaps doesn’t even realise he/she is being manipulated to sow discord in the domestic public sphere. Is easy to manipulate because of ego-driven sense of being aware of special knowledge is addicting. Is prone to paranoia and a strong sense of victimhood. A highly effective, if unwitting, foreign agent.

          2. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            Science is a high authority. People keep telling us “I believe in science! “It has become a dogma, a religion. While the beauty of science is precisely its perpetual questioning and culture of critical thinking….

          3. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            my point is respectful debate is to be encouraged in a healthy society not shouted down

          4. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            huge surge in bambinos over this period as people actually spend time with their partners ( bambinos or divorce ! )

          5. Micko

            @Daisy. Did I hit a nerve last night?

            @Janet. Completely agree. Science without debate is not science.

            @Django. Are you accusing f_lawless of being an unwitting quasi-communist agent? Jesus. Have we now reached peak McCarthyism or what?

          6. Daisy Chainsaw

            Micko, I hope you’ve calmed down after a good night’s sleep. All that impotent rage must be so tiring, not to mention tiresome.

          7. Clampers Outside

            Ah now… It’s not a great line, but the meaning isn’t lost.

            ———

            “If you don’t make mistakes, you’re doing it wrong.
            If you don’t correct those mistakes, you’re doing it really wrong.
            If you can’t accept that you’re mistaken, you’re not doing it at all.” Prof Richard Feynam

            The “debate” could be the third part of that quote, imho :)

          8. Nigel

            Imagining just about any one of us commenters here trying to explain to Richard Feynman what he was getting wrong about quantum mechanics and why should demonstrate that while, yes, scientific debate is good, there are limits.

          9. Nigel

            My confidence in your ability to hold your own in a scientific debate with Richard Feynman remains roughly the same.

          10. Paulus

            An old Irish (?) variation on this is;
            ‘The person who never made a mistake never made anything’

          11. Clampers Outside

            More blather! :) Feyman would likely wipe the floor and then some with me. As for you, and your stance on accusation as being a “legitimate” form of debate… He’d laugh you out of the room for arrogant stupidity.

          12. Micko

            A yeah lads.

            We’re not talking about trying to argue the speed of light in a vacuum or any other repeatable phenomena or constant.

            We’re talking about a new and emerging coronavirus and how the human population as a whole has handled the situation. Rightly or wrongly.

            Especially when politics and big business is involved with coercing public opinion and restrictions in human rights.

            And EVEN more when different scientists are contradicting each other every single bloody day.

            So yes. We need that debate to be represented in the public media and not shot down as “conspiracy” or “idiocy”

            And without it, it’s not science – it’s rhetoric.

          13. Haroo

            Micko, would you outline exactly what your beliefs are or what your interpretation of what is going on? There seems to be a nuance (or a vast difference in fairness) set of positions amongst the… eh… shall we say unorthodox.

            Like do you doubt covid exists? Was it manufactured? Or is it real and being exaggerated as a pretext for restrictions? Was it serendipitous that covid happened and govts/corps/the powerful have been waiting for this chance? Who benefits from these restrictions? What exactly is the point of the vaccinations? What is the end game or desired result? Essentially I am looking for the overall story, in your opinion.

            Separate but linked, debate is of course important. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But opinions can be informed. Opinions can be supported by evidence. Opinions can be structured and grounded in reality and not feelings or suspicions or simple imagination. My opinion on medical issues is ill-informed and worthless when compared to a trained doctor or the medical community overall.

          14. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            a phrase springs to mind at many of the government’s actions,
            never let a good crisis go to waste

          15. ce

            Masks… people have debated whether wear mask might help lower the spread of an infectious disease

            Travel… people have debate whether limiting travel might help lower the spread of an infectious disease

            etc….

            So… it’s hard to debate self-appointed freedom fighters, and the tin-foil sartologists… because it’s not a debate, it’s extreme face-palming…

            https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/284/709/7ae.png

          16. Micko

            Cool ce

            So you’re 100% correct on this yeah? And everyone else is an idiot?

            Dangerous stuff man.

          17. Nigel

            ‘So yes. We need that debate to be represented in the public media and not shot down as “conspiracy” or “idiocy”’

            I don’t understand this conception of debate where we are not allowed to exercise judgement on whether something is idiotic or a conspiracy theory. The idea that the pandemic is fake is idiotic. The idea that the pandemic was deliberately released with the ultimate intention of imposing communist Chinese apps on us all is a conspiracy theory. The ideas that big business and politicians will always do their best to take advantage of a crisis or will make costly mistakes and compromises during a crisis or that modern journalism is a sadly degraded and compromised institution are neither idiotic nor conspiracy theories, but if someone is constantly tying them in to idiocies and conspiracy theories they turn into babble.

          18. Nigel

            ‘As for you, and your stance on accusation as being a “legitimate” form of debate’

            Yeah, you tell Richard all about my ‘stance.’

          19. Micko

            @haroo.

            No probs. I totally believe that Covid is real.

            A serious respiratory condition that effects a very specific subset of our population. A subset that we failed to protect as the media completely over emphasised the seriousness of the condition in the general population in order to sell the story. It’s what they do with everything.

            Leading to global CCP style lockdowns and us in the west completely abandoning the plans we had in place for dealing with a pandemic. Those plans literally went out the window. The HSE’s own plan is available online if you want to check it out. It actually says lockdowns are a bad idea as it would cripple society.

            I can understand why we they did it too, we all crapped ourselves when we saw the videos coming out of Italy and China. Thanks again media ;)

            But, I also think that Covid is big business and there is a lot of interested parties that have completely taken control of the narrative and are keeping this going.

            Particularly in Ireland, where some interesting things happened. The tender process was abandoned for government contracts, allowing government to give contracts to their pals and interests.

            A few examples:
            Eamonn Ryan’s brother runs Medmark – responsible for PCR testing in the private sector
            ROQU -a media event company received 14 million to source ventilators – they failed.
            Cillian De Gascun who chairs NPHET runs a lab receiving millions to run PCR tests.

            All very dodgy

            Interestingly a similar situation occurred in the UK. Dispaches on Channel 4 recently did an expose about the “contracts for pals” scandal over there. It’s on All4.

            Also, that coupled with the fact that Ireland’s GDP is the ONLY one to grow in Europe in 2020. Thanks to our pharmaceutical / medical device exports and the tech giants we enjoy. France 24 covered it here https://youtu.be/ssJsxHYQJ78

            So Covid is BIG whopper business for Ireland.

            So to summarise, yes Covid is real, no it’s not a big conspiracy to enslave us, but it has been completely hijacked by governments and big business as a way to keep us in line so they and their pals can continue to go to the bank with tax payer money.

            Oh and divide us over:

            Who’s spreading it?
            Who’s having house parties?
            Who’s not wearing a mask?
            Who’s not getting the vaccine?
            Who can eat indoors?
            etc etc

            And we just roll on

          20. ce

            What we really need is a debate on antibiotics – since they are over used and have side effects, and are becoming less useful in certain bacterial situations… we should just flush them down the toilet, cause they are actually useless…

            There – now we have balance… and if you wear a mask you might as well be sticking a leech on your face…

          21. Nigel

            ‘but it has been completely hijacked by governments and big business as a way to keep us in line so they and their pals can continue to go to the bank with tax payer money.’

            Oh, you’re mad at capitalism.

          22. ce

            “So Covid is BIG whopper business for Ireland. ”

            Yep, and everywhere else, but that does not mean a mask does not help stop the spread of Covid (or other respiratory viruses) to others, or that PCR are therefore total nonsense etc… The problem is you are debating from a black and white point of view because you don’t like some of the players in the game while also ignoring large scale unnecessary deaths all over the world … and people like info_warless and his/her merry band of followers are just engaged in insane tin-foilism…

            Government, multi-national NGOs, drug companies etc… have lost the trust of so many due to some pretty dodgy things over the last few decades… but Coivd has basically been the real life playing out of The Boy Who Cried Wolf… do they live happily ever after in that one, I can’t remember…

          23. Micko

            “ The problem is you are debating from a black and white point of view because you don’t like some of the players in the game”

            No, I’m arguing that the restrictions imposed on us are MORE damaging to our society than Covid EVER could have been.

            And that big business and world governments are very interested in keeping it going.

      1. Fergalito

        In all fairness I think Micko is probably one of the most balanced posters on BS, likewise I don’t think you can accuse him of succumbing to rage either. The dregs posting here are nothing more than cheerleaders touting the equivalent of responsorial psalms – blindly incanting mantras and empty rhetoric. Eight AM Mass, every day, seven days a week.

        Recall if you can that scene from Fr. Ted with Dougal playing football with the other priests. There’s a melee and a scuffle with one of the players on the ground. When he thinks no one is looking, Dougal steps forward and throws a sneaky kick in to the ribs., turns on his heels and walks away with hands in pockets. Solid visual representation for the mettle that makes up a lot of commentary, in general.

        Anyway…! Go in peace to love and serve one another :)

  1. SOQ

    So- you can receive holy communion and conformation in the north of Ireland but not the south?

    At some stage people must ask why is the health advice been given so different, and why is the south so far behind.

    1. Berlingo

      Not just in religious matters.Over the weekend Ireland passed the UK in percentage terms of people vaccinated yet the UK has been fully open for weeks and cases numbers are falling dramatically.Either we follow the science or we don’t.

    2. The Dude

      Quite remarkable that freedom to worship continues to be suppressed while 40,000 attendees are anticipated for Croke Park.

      Article 44 of the Irish Constitution declares citizens free to practice religion, yet it omits saying anything about spectators’ rights to attend football matches. Quite the oversight in hindsight.

      Anyhow it would be interesting to hear any qualified opinion as to the legality of the emerging situation.

      Personally my own faith is in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but that’s a matter for another day.

      1. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

        I just believe in me ;) everything else is just my perception of reality

        1. ce

          I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky. I think about it every night and day. Spread my wings and fly away. I believe I can soar. I see me running through that open door. I believe I can fly. I believe I can fly. I believe I can fly (woo)

          1. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

            actually I’m just in from a run and I can confirm, I also can fly :)

      2. ce

        “Quite remarkable that freedom to worship continues to be suppressed while 40,000 attendees are anticipated for Croke Park.” I think it’s Jack – I can’t smile properly just like so many FF leaders/leadership hopefuls – Chambers, securing some pleb votes

    1. Verbatim

      In fact, that heading is misleading it’s gone up “by” €4 not “from”. Which makes sense when you follow the money, one couldn’t really think they were selling the vaccine that cheaply!

      1. GiggidyGoo

        a 25.8% increase, with guaranteed waivers and a captive audience. Next it will be ‘no travel without booster jabs’ The well has been well and truly sunk.

        1. Clampers Outside

          I’m with you on that Giggidy. It’s not like they’ve been selling at a loss to date, and so any increase is pure profit.

          1. GiggidyGoo

            Add to that, that they were financed by various governments to develop the vaccines.
            As well, Pfizer are working on an oral ‘therapy’. https://www.pfizer.com/science/coronavirus/antiviral-efforts developing a protease inhibitor.
            Pfizermectin?
            Odd?
            ‘Ivermectin was found as a blocker of viral replicase, protease and human TMPRSS2, which could be the biophysical basis behind its antiviral efficiency. ’

            I’m sure all the scientists here will put us right though.

        1. Janet, dreams of an alternate universe

          nobodies really sure, I’m pretty sure he wears a tricolor as pants though

    1. GiggidyGoo

      This calls for a Late Late special. Contributions of course by Imelda May. (She turned up last night on another rte program.)

  2. f_lawless

    Insightful testimony on the psychology of totalitarianism in the covid era by Belgian professor, Mattias Desmet, speaking to the ‘German Corona Investigative Committee’.

    https://odysee.com/@VeryOpinionatedShow:5/lbry-Mattias-Desmet:7?r=5zdETpsgk4QFETDFTJ8yFFdnwZZUxkTs

    Quote::
    “Four things need to be in place for large-scale mass phenomena to emerge. The first thing is there needs to be a lot of socially isolated people -people who experience a lack of social bond. The second is there needs to be a lot of people who experience a lack of sense-making in life. The third and fourth are that there needs to be a lot of free-floating anxiety and a lot of free-floating discontent – meaning anxiety and discontent that is not connected to specific representation…

    ..What people want in this situation is something to connect their anxiety to, they’re looking for an explanation to their anxiety. So if the media provides a narrative which indicates an object of anxiety and at the same time describes a strategy to deal with this object of anxiety, then all the anxiety connects to this object and people are willing to follow the strategy to deal with this object no matter what the cost is. That is what happens in the beginning of mass formation.

    Then in a second step, people start a collective and heroic battle with this object of anxiety and in that way a new kind of social bond emerges and a new kind of sense-making. Suddenly life is all directed at battling the object of anxiety and in this way establishing a new connection with other people. And that sudden switch from a negative state – a radical lack of social connection to the opposite: the massive social connection that is experienced in a crowd. This sudden switch leads up to a sort of mental intoxication which is equivalent to a sort of hypnosis…”

    Worth watching the full discussion

    1. Nigel

      And this explains how people suddenly start believing the pandemic is fake? Or the pandemic was deliberate? Or the vaccines are a form of mass enslavement and/or culling? Or that the unvaccinated are like Jews in Nazi Germany?

          1. Clampers Outside

            I find it funny you have such unwavering faith in the narrative Nigel…. Oddly funny :)

          2. Nigel

            If I don’t think the pandemic is fake then I must have ‘unwavering faith in the narrative?’ Whatever that is?

          3. Man On Fire

            I think what C means is that you have unwavering faith in a media that routinely lies and gaslights its audiences.

          4. Daisy Chainsaw

            Depends on the “media”, doesn’t it. If you’ve already decided that “msm” isn’t telling you what you want to hear and you’ve turned to unsubstantiated conspiraloon fodder then you’re going to believe your being gaslit.

          5. Man On Fire

            “Depends on the “media”, doesn’t it.. ”

            Nope, they all lie and gaslight..

            Name me any of your preferred sources and I’ve no doubt I can show you instances of deception.

          6. Clampers Outside

            No. You come across as having unwavering faith in the narrative that it is being handled well with lockdowns and increased govt controls…. with little to no scepticism of handling. No need for the more extreme stuff of calling it all a “fake”, I just find it odd, you come across as having no scepticism at all, especially for someone who bangs on about far-right extremism being on the rise.

          7. Nigel

            Well, the media reported that we were going to go into lockdown, and we did, so they got that right. When we were in lockdown, the media reported that we were in lockdown, so they were right abut that, too. The media reported that there would be partial reopening, and, lo, we partially reopened. So if I had unwavering faith in the media reporting about lockdowns – and really it’s such a silly thing to say, but you said it – it seems to have been rewarded.

            The skepticism I express here about such opinions as the padnemic being fake and my skepticism about corporate or state media or government actions are in completely different categories. It is not weird to be skeptical about corporate or state media or government actions. It is weird to think that the pandemic is fake, consequently it tends to draw more comment, from me, at any rate.

          8. Clampers Outside

            Fair enough on the second bit.

            The first bit reads like you just accept the media don’t challenge the narrative. And your commentary on here would suggest you’re fine with that too.

            But the media should be asking questions rather than parroting the WHO/NPHET line as if it were the only approach.

            The biggest glaring example, is lockdowns. These were advised against by the WHO for as long as the WHO had data, until this pandemic. And then they flipflopped on that, why? And the WHO flip flopped on that position with no new data, why? I’ve yet to see a mainstream media outlet ask why. Instead, they just parrot the narrative.

          9. Nigel

            ‘The first bit reads like you just accept the media don’t challenge the narrative.’

            The first bit reads like the specific reporting I’m referring to seemed to correspond with reality. Anything else is you reading stuff in.

            ‘Instead, they just parrot the narrative’

            My expectations for modern media don’t get much beyond hoping they’re reporting what’s actualy happening in the world with some degree of accuracy. Asking questions is extra.

      1. U N M U T U A L

        In case anyone missed this article…

        Covid: Disabled people account for six in 10 deaths in England last year – ONS
        Some 30,296 of the 50,888 deaths between January and November were people with a disability, Office for National Statistics (ONS) data shows.

        https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56033813.amp

      2. Micko

        Who knows Nigel eh?

        Ever wonder why they brought in masks on Aug 10th in Ireland last year – when NO ONE was dying.

        Ever wonder why they brought in domestic vaccine passports in Ireland this year AND when we had vaccines – again when NO ONE is dying!

        Even if you don’t believe in a conspiracy (that’s fine), you have to admit that these policies make no sense.

        Perhaps governments have used them, as pretty effective tools to remind everyone that the pandemic is still here and you should still be afraid. Masks forever?

        This time last year people were looking forward to the vaccines and getting hopeful for this ending- now we seem to be going backwards.

        More restrictions, more removal of rights.

        “Just two more weeks, just one more push. Just one more hoop to jump through. Nearly there. The carrot’s right in front of you. Good boy”

        When does it end?

        1. Nigel

          Both these policies are perfectly explicable. You may not agree with them as policies or you may criticise their implementation, but even the more muddled reasons were obvious without overcomplicating them to add sinister overtones that just aren’t there.

          1. Micko


            Both these policies are perfectly explicable.”

            Ok cool. Explain them so.

            And why are there still restrictions when no one is dying?

            And when does it end? Zero Covid deaths or acceptable number of Covid deaths?

          2. Clampers Outside

            Zero is nuts. Acceptable levels are the norm. Anyone who disagrees with acceptable levels is striving for some fantasy land utopian dream.
            What is the level, I don’t know. I do know it is not a continuous push for zero. Life is for living.

          3. Nigel

            Do you think this will be the time an explanation takes or will you be back asking the same questions again as if they’re significant arguments for some sort of skullduggery within ten minutes?

          4. Micko

            Let’s find out….eh?

            I’m gonna guess it’s your usual answer of “we are in a pandemic” and “it’s a public health measure” etc

            How is it a pandemic if we have vaccines and if no one is dying?

            Also, don’t be so worried about repeating yourself man.

            Judging by how long we spend on here, we ALL seem to have an abundance of time in our hands. ;)

            Anyway, again – when does it end?

          5. Nigel

            Meh. You know the reasons for all those things, they’re not sinister, you just don’t like them, so you’re desperately trying to make them sinister but you don’t want to tip over into actual conspiracy theories so you’re left asking the same questions over and over again in lieu of actual arguments and pretending you haven’t seen the answers.

          6. Micko

            “ You know the reasons for all those things”

            Eh. No I don’t.

            How is is a pandemic in Ireland if no one is dying?

            And why do we have MORE restrictions than last year if we now have a successful vaccine program AND no one is dying?

            Surely in any rational society, the opposite should be occurring.

          7. Nigel

            1. It is a pandmic because people are still getting sick with the thing that has been killing people.
            2. More restrictions compared to what? Complete lockdown? It’s less restrictions compared to complete lockdown.
            3. The opposite of what? Vaccinations? The lifting of restrictions? You want no vaccinations and the imposition of restrictions?

          8. Cian

            Because we don’t want to be Florida.

            A day after it recorded the most new daily cases since the start of the pandemic, Florida on Sunday broke a previous record for current hospitalizations set more than a year ago before vaccines were available.

            The Sunshine State had 10,207 people hospitalized with confirmed COVID-19 cases, according to data reported to the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services.

            https://apnews.com/article/business-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-7ca97f0d685ab25559cf9b51cfc077eb

          9. Micko

            “ that has been killing people.”

            Indeed. “HAS” is the operative word. It’s comparable to a flu now.

            “Complete lockdown”.

            Don’t worry, a complete lockdown is coming your way soon. This is the cycle.

            I mean even from a basic logic point of view, why would you not open completely in the summer when we know cases and deaths are WAY down and let people get naturally infected when the beds are free.

            Instead of moving towards opening up in the winter when we KNOW beds will be scarce and another lockdown will be needed to “protect the HSE”

            Do you feel we are getting closer to a return to normal or further away?

            Does the fact that here and in many countries around the world, having to show proof of a medical procedure to access social gatherings not worry you?

            Not even a little bit? Come on. It has to.

            Especially when the science makes no sense. Unvaccinated workers, the fact that vaccinated are just as likely to spread it etc. It’s absolute BS!

            Is the “Just two more weeks” and “cabinet will decide next month” crap not getting to you?

            Or do you love it?

          10. Micko

            Cian. Florida has 22 million people. And is surrounded by a land mass containing another 300 million.

            Cop on.

          11. Nigel

            ‘Indeed. “HAS” is the operative word. It’s comparable to a flu now. ‘

            No, it’s still comparable to covid 19, responsible for over 4 million deaths worldwide, putting God nows how many on ventilators and leaving God knows how many with serious long-term disabilities.

            ‘Don’t worry, a complete lockdown is coming your way soon.’

            You’re expecting more people to start dying again? Even though you’re claming the pandemic is over?

            ‘I mean even from a basic logic point of view, why would you not open completely in the summer when we know cases and deaths are WAY down’

            There are some weird assumptions and contradictions underlying your questions but this one is… definitely out there.

            ‘let people get naturally infected when the beds are free.’

            WAY out there.

            ‘Instead of moving towards opening up in the winter’

            You want us to lock down for the winter?

            ‘Do you feel we are getting closer to a return to normal or further away?’

            Looking at your questions I don’t think we were ever normal.

            ‘Does the fact that here and in many countries around the world, having to show proof of a medical procedure to access social gatherings not worry you?’

            Not as much as the number of people who are refusing to get vaccinated because they think it’s part of a global conspiracy.

          12. Micko

            Ok. Lots to unpack there. I’m going to go with “you think I’m an idiot”. That’s fine.

            So when governments around the world are implementing non scientific policies via an communist China style app that curtail people freedoms in their own land, unless you take an medicine with no long term data – and that’s something we shouldn’t be concerned about in your view.

            Not even a little teeny tiny bit Nigel ? No?

          13. Junkface

            @Micko
            “Especially when the science makes no sense. Unvaccinated workers, the fact that vaccinated are just as likely to spread it etc. It’s absolute BS!”

            I read a new study/report yesterday from the USA that says covid (delta v) does not spread as easily among the vaccinated, it gets considerably weakened. Actually I found it after searching for a while:
            https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1421537754522001416

          14. Nigel

            ‘are implementing non scientific policies’

            I don’t have the slightest faith in your ability to determine whether a policy is scientific or not, so the question is fatally flawed.

            ‘communist China style app’

            What is a ‘communist China style app’ supposed to be? I have all sorts of concerns about freedom and surveillance and democracy, I had them before the pandemic and I’ll still have them after, but none of them seem to be occupying the same planet as stuff like this.

          15. Micko

            “ I don’t have the slightest faith in your ability to determine whether a policy is scientific or not, so the question is fatally flawed.”

            Ha ha ha!

            Ooh Nigey. You get so upset that I’m more qualified to discuss this stuff doesn’t it :p

            And Yes. Communist China. This vid is from a year ago.

            https://youtu.be/JADi2Px0xAg

            Seems quaint now

          16. Junkface

            @Micko
            “Fauci said the exact opposite only a few days ago. That the vaccinated are just as infectious.”
            Maybe he was not aware of every new study. Lord knows really. I find Fauci has become less trustworthy over time. It a minefield right now, but there are even new hospital reports today from south Texas and Louisiana that children are getting more severely affected by the delta spread. I hope not, but it could be.

            But to your much earlier point, its true that Ireland’s lockdown severity does not reflect the relatively low rate of deaths counted in Ireland from covid 19. Our politicians have very mixed messaging and have shown general confusion about which action to take. Especially if talking about antigen tests.

          17. Nigel

            ‘Ooh Nigey. You get so upset that I’m more qualified to discuss this stuff doesn’t it :p’

            If I thought for a minute you had a relevant qualification, all evidence to the contrary aside, that wouldn’t be upsetting. A bit worrying, though.

            a) feck off with your YouTube.
            b) again this seems wildly dsconnected from worryng western capitalist dystopian tech stuff that is actually going on right now that has nothing to do with vaccines and everything to do with stripping employment rights, personal data breaches, floods of online disinformation aimed at destabilising democratic societies and ignoring climate change.

          18. Micko

            Umm Ok Nigel.

            a) The YouTube link is to a Channel 4 news report. Pretty legit.

            b) You sound like a conspiracy theorist. You just believe is a different conspiracy apparently.

            But yes, the one that YOU believe in is definitely real.

            Just like a religion ;)

            Hehehehehe

          19. Nigel

            Oh? Which bits are evidence-free conspiracy theories? The working conditions at Amazon? The gig economy? That Facebook is crammed with stories that insist Trump is still president? That coverage of climate change is still not commensurate with the threat it poses? Which if those is not real?

          20. Clampers Outside

            On your misinformation / pseudoscie list, you forgot… people can change sex and that transwomen are women / transmen are men.

          21. Oro

            You are obsessed with trans people. To a degree that doesn’t seem so healthy. You know when you fixate on a group of people and search out information on them exclusively with a specific bent, or for a certain type of media about them, an interest in the topic very quickly moves into something more sinister. Food for thought maybe.

          22. Clampers Outside

            Hahahaha!
            No sign of you for ages, then I throw a comment out… Hey presto! And it’s on with the Oro handle.
            You’re just a chicken-poop multiple handle/account user, who puts on a handle dish abuse.
            Go away with your pseudo science and labelling anyone who disagrees as being obsessed or being hateful.
            You’re a right numpty.

          23. Oro

            I don’t comment that often, or read every day. I’m not sure who’s accessory account I’m supposed to be but I don’t have to answer to your paranoia.

            I also wasn’t ‘dishing abuse’ lol but your comment is that all over – maybe don’t complain about something while doing it yourself.

            My point was that if you fixate on / constantly seek out negative media or reporting on trans people, you move from having an interest in the topic to satiating your own transphobia via a hateful media cycle. I’m a member of the LGBT+ community so I don’t like seeing casual transphobia, and I think you’re transphobic. But you could disengage from it if you chose to, I recommend you do so.

          24. Clampers Outside

            OK, maybe you are just Oro on here. I can accept that.

            On the rest of your comment, well, you just did what you said you don’t do.
            Good night.

          25. Oro

            Being critical of the things you say doesn’t mean I’m slinging abuse. I wasn’t trying to be mean rather than just be upfront. More than a few people have said very similar things to you on here about the things you say about certain groups of people, I’m suggesting you listen to them.

            And if someone in the LGBT+ community suggests that your speech is transphobic, it carries a certain weight. As I said before, food for thought.

          26. Clampers Outside

            All my comments are from listening to actual trans individuals, not just someone from a list of letters claiming to speak for all.

            You should listen to them, not assume to speak for them.

          27. Oro

            No they’re not. You’re on Twitter affirming your views with select things chosen for you and real trans people aren’t like that. You get baited. Trans women believe they are women, and trans men believe they are men. You fundamentally disagree with this and therefore you are not listening to or getting your views from trans people, dishonest of you to say otherwise.

          28. Nigel

            I accept trans people are real and accept their identities. That’s the science of basic decency. Good job for roping in your pet hate into a seperate subject entirely, though.

          29. Clampers Outside

            You’ve stated that you believe sex change is real.
            You’ve stated that self ID makes a man a woman and a woman a man.
            You’ve said self ID is under the trans “umbrella” and that self ID’ing transwomen are actual real women (and FTM real men).
            All that’s ideological belief, nothing more, backed by pseudo science. All which you’ve said is real.
            You made a list of misinformation. I gave one misinformational piece you conveniently left out, one you believe in, to add to your list. Nothing separate about it at all.

        2. Nigel

          1. Wow that was a lot of ‘accusing’ you just did at Oro.
          2. ‘Ideally’ you should respect trans peoples’ identities. It’s not difficult or even complicated.

          1. Nigel

            Good, Unmutual. Luckily for you it’s easy and free to go ahead and get your Vaccination Status Reassignment Shots.

          2. Clampers Outside

            I’ve no issue with someone having an identity.

            My issue is when pseudo science says I must also believe it. F’ that! People cannot change sex, that’s a fact.

            It’s quite funny too that the case is made that gender and sex are different, but when gender is claimed, the same TRAs, like yourself, also claim I must accept sex was changed. I say again, f’ that nonsense.

          1. ce

            Almost in the Erin Brockovich realm there … and similarly likely to get the largest cut from a class action…

            … why would he lie to you…

            Do get a retainer from him too like info_warless?

        1. Nigel

          Really? Because it seems plausible that those four elements he identifies might contribute to the growth of those beliefs, though saying they ‘need to be in place’ seems overly prescriptive and ahistorical, so it comes across as more of a hot take than serious analysys.

          1. f_lawless

            I’m going to go out on a limb here and assume you haven’t watched the hour+ discussion and yet are prepared to dismiss the one quote as a “hot take”.

            Here’s a link to a transcribed interview with the professor from back in March covering the same subject matter (approx 5 min read). It’s translated from Flemish, his native language, and so his points are that bit more eloquently made.

            https://dailysceptic.org/interview-with-mattias-desmet-professor-of-clinical-psychology/

          2. ce

            Some fact checking about some of Desmet’s (Department of Psychoanalysis and Clinical Consulting… rather than infectious disea ) claim –

            https://www.knack.be/nieuws/factcheck/factcheck-besmettingen-in-eerste-twee-weken-na-vaccinatie-zeggen-niets-over-effectiviteit-vaccins/article-longread-1757041.html?cookie_check=1627920638

            In the conclusion, translated from Flemish – “The study Desmet refers to did not appear in the BMJ, it is not peer-reviewed and the figures he cites refer to the first two weeks after vaccination, when”

          3. ce

            Also headline on the Sceptic today…

            “The number of new daily Covid cases in the U.K. fell to 21,952 today, the lowest it’s been in five weeks. “… a mere 20K with umpteen numbers in isolation from the pingdemic…

            ’tis but a scratch sheeple!

          4. ce

            Also, as much as Toby Young is a bit of a pain – he offers a good warning on his site about info_warless-type folks

            “The temptation when debunking ‘the Science’ behind these policies is to see sinister cabals at work, bent on some secret plot to subvert democratic institutions and usher in a New World Order in which they control every aspect of our lives. But as someone who’s earned his living as a journalist for over 35 years, occasionally with a front row seat on the inner workings of government, I’m a subscriber to the cock-up theory of history. I don’t doubt that plenty of clever, successful people have seized upon opportunities during this crisis, enriching themselves or consolidating their power and status in some other way, and a fair few are now doing what they can to prolong it. But that’s a far cry from the ‘Plandemic’. History can in rare circumstances be bent to the will of an extraordinary individual, but it is never planned. Societies ‘reset’ themselves all the time, but not in a way that’s ‘great’ if by that is meant ‘permanent’, and I doubt even Klaus Schwab really believes that. He’s just a carnival barker standing outside a tent called ‘Davos’ and we shouldn’t take his flimflam too seriously.”

            https://dailysceptic.org/home/

          5. Nigel

            Flawless I don’t understand. Aside from the hot take bit, what part of my comments are you disagreeing with?

    2. ce

      Info_warless strikes again

      Or maybe it’s Laurence Fishburne trying to wake us up out of the Matrix… it’s the f_L that got me thinking, if I just rearranged the letters it all started to make sense…

    3. SOQ

      Excellent interview and explains a lot- a form of mass hypnosis emerging from isolation and media propaganda. Why some people are so hostile to alternative view points despite the fact that their own does not make sense, has always been a mystery to me.

  3. ce

    From a REAL NEWS source…

    https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2020/10/24/covid-19-expert-definitely-wasnt-this-clever-at-school/

    “WATERFORD man Eric Carragher’s current expertise in the fields of virology and immunology was not apparent when he attended St Davros Secondary, according to classmates who remember his as the guy who once stuck a sewing needle through the palm of his hand and out the other side, for a dare.
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    “I took a look at his Facebook page recently where he was posting at length about the ineffectiveness of polymerase chain reaction testing in Covid-19 cases and couldn’t believe it was the same Eric Carragher who got 55 points in his Leaving because he thought it made him look like a badass” said former classmate, Dearbhla Owens.

    “Whatever happened in the 20 years since I saw him drinking Jager out of his shoe at our debs has certainly upped his knowledge of the manufacture and covert dispersal of an aerosol-based virus, and using the subsequent pandemic to do… something, I didn’t read the end of his 9,000 word copy-and-pasted Facebook post” added former classmate, Mark Ferrell.

    Meanwhile, Carragher has been slow to divulge where he suddenly became such an expert on viruses and vaccines in such a short period of time, as he was too busy writing posts that end in ‘awake yet?’, ‘let that sink in’ and ‘so simple, why can’t people just read?’.

    He did however provide a Bitchute link to a 4 hour video of an expert that ‘Facebook are trying to silence’, with the assurance that ‘all the answers are there’ and that you didn’t need to have education or a job or intelligence to be able to see what’s really going on.”

    Thanks WW, as always, enjoy experts…

    1. SOQ

      Without getting too gay bar chat up convo about it Daisy- when was the last time you had an SARS-CoV-2 antibody test? You have been to one or two gay bars I take it? You being so Left Wing etc…

      Common sense is common sense darlin- where is yours?

      1. Daisy Chainsaw

        mY pRiVaTe MeDiCaL iNfO iS pRiVaTe!!!1!eleventy!!11 /ratlicker conspiraloon

        You’re a very nosey parker, SOQ. Who are you gathering all this for?

        Also, I am not your Fruit Fly.

          1. Daisy Chainsaw

            Whinge whinge whinge.

            I’m showing up conspiraloons and their odious behaviour. If that hurts your feelings, then tough tiddy.

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