Gillick competence means children in Northern Ireland can overrule their parents & get the Covid-19 vaccine without their permission.
However, officials hope agreement can be reached between kids & parents.https://t.co/UoBqpLrUOQ— Lisa Smyth (@Lisa_J_Smyth) September 16, 2021
This afternoon.
Via Belfast Telegraph:
Children in Northern Ireland may be able to overrule their parents and get the Covid-19 vaccine against their wishes, a senior medic has said.
Dr Naresh Chada, deputy chief medical officer at the Department of Health, said some children may be able to get the Covid-19 vaccine without parental consent.
However, he stressed that officials are keen that there will be “sufficient discussion” between children and those with parental responsibility to ensure this doesn’t happen.
Meanwhile…
The ‘Jab of Joy’ brought to you by the BBC Insane Asylum. pic.twitter.com/4NtaYrYQBF
— Onepercent (@Adenoughofit) September 16, 2021
Meanwhile…
Masked children are falling asleep in class through lack of facial expression recognition, they can't listen, what the masked teacher is saying doesn't register@NormaFoleyTD1
— UsforThemIrl #NoMasksInClass (@UsforI) September 15, 2021
Meanwhile…
Covid-19: Boys are more at risk of myocarditis after vaccination than of hospital admission for covid | The BMJ https://t.co/O5kTaE05XX
— Hugh Osmond (@hughosmond) September 15, 2021
brilliant
the next generation can’t possibly be as dumb as some of the current ones, this gives them a chance
to refuse.
Fixed- your welcome.
Yes to refuse to make the same sort of uninformed myopic reactionary decisions as the likes of you
Truther, here’s some Truth, you’re the one saying obey the government, you are the Reactionary.
It’s funny about all the outrage from pandemic truthers over this, when in fact, yes, it gives kids the as much power to over-ride their parents and refuse the vaccine as the other way around.
But that is not how it works.
Scenario 1. Parents say no but child says yes- result is yes.
Scenario 2. Parents say yes but child says no- result is yes.
Scenario 3. Parents say yes but child says yes- result is yes.
Scenario 4. Parents say no and child says no- result is child peer pressure / coercion / discrimination.
Bullying a child into taking an experimental injection is disgusting behaviour.
I’m not generally confident that you know how anything works, but your pessimism is sad and has touched my flinty heart.
Feel free to add you own scenarios Nigel? Let’s brainstorm.
Parents say no, but child takes Ring to Mount Doom anyway.
Parents say yes but child says Yahtzee and refuses to say anything else.
Parents say go to rehab but child says no, no, no.
Scenario 2. Parents say yes but child says no- result is yes.
It would be interesting what would happen in the jab centre if this happened.
Parent + child in booth; nurse asks for consent; parent says “yes” child says “no”.
What would happen? Do you think that the nurse would give the jab?
If the child is deemed competent its their decision. So in the same way they can overrule parents who don’t want them to have the jab they can overrule parents who do want them have it. The competency tests are old and well used, this isn’t a new idea. The Gillick case happened in the 80s
parents can always pull the ‘grounded’ trump card.
I’m not sure it does Nigel. The law relates to teenagers being able to give their informed consent to receive contraception against their parents wishes, so I don’t think it would apply in the opposite direction.
It should be noted that it’s not a automatic right and teenagers would have to show they are competent to give consent and understand any risks.
Gillick competence applies all most medical treatments (the original Gillick case was about allowing under 16 access contraception; but under 16s aren’t legally allowed to have sex).
Under Gillick a child can refuse treatment.
What happens if the child withholds consent?
If the child is not Gillick competent, the parents can consent on behalf of the child, even if the child is refusing the treatment. However, you should consider carefully whether overriding the consent of a distressed child, given the clinical circumstances at the time, is necessary. Often, if sufficient time is given, the parents will be able to encourage the child that the intervention will be beneficial. You should aim to work in partnership with the parents, assuming that the child’s best interests are paramount.
A competent child is legally entitled to withhold consent to treatment. However, even though the child or young person may be considered to be Gillick competent, there are some situations where their refusal can be overridden by those with parental responsibility. If the treating doctor believes that the withholding of consent may be detrimental to the patient’s wellbeing, legal advice may be required. It may be necessary for a court to determine whether treatment can be given against the wishes of the competent young person.
Patients aged 16-17 can withhold consent to treatment, but this can be overruled in exceptional circumstances if it is considered to be in their best interests, either by someone with parental responsibility or by the courts.
https://www.medicalprotection.org/uk/articles/eng-consent-children-and-young-people
It sounds like a situation that’s just waiting for a test case to arise. Without wishing to insert myself into any family’s private medical concerns, I would, in theory, be sympathetic to a child who objected to the vaccination despite their parent’s wishes. I think the anti-vaxx hysteria about the harms are wildly overstated, but there are real side-effects to worry about, and the hysteria itself might be enough to affect anyone. Considering the relatively low risk young people face from covid, forcing a kid to vaccinate when they don’t want to strikes me as potentially the greater harm.
Nigel, kids can say yes to being sexually abused by adults but since they cannot give informed consent, it’s irrelevant.
I’m sure you’re fine that you’re applying the same logic that paedophiles have been trotting out for years.
By definition a child cannot give consent to sexual relations. This is a very narrowly defined situation where a child may be judged competent to make a medical decision, under medical supervision. Your conflation of this with pedophilia is cheap, sensationalistic and demeaning, mostly to yourself.
“you’re welcome” – ftfy
I consider myself duly spanked.
Same time next week?
SOQ, you have just encountered a wall of insanity, a sea of amoral rationalisation, a morass of sick, twisted illogic.
Psychopathic child abusers.
Interesting in the post that the British Medical Journal has confirmed that risk of Myocarditis in boys from vaccination is higher than the risk from ending up in hospital Covid.
The HSE had the same until they changed it.
Not dying mind you – just ending up in hospital. Of course the odds of dying is even smaller.
Only a few weeks ago when the HSE data was posted here confirming the risk, people were telling others that they couldn’t “interpret the medical data” properly as they were only mere laypeople.
Looks like the BMJ have the same problem interpreting the data. Silly them. :0)
Now bring on the “myocarditis is not a big deal” replies. Funny how the narrative changed to that pretty fast in the face of the data.
Good, kids are usually a step ahead of their parents these days.
Ain’t that the truth
Low level minion truth.
WaKe uP cUcKs anD sMeLL tHe cHemTraILs!!!
you do know SAIs or Stratospheric Aerosol Injections (i.e. spraying chemicals into the atmopshere to modify the weather) is a real thing, yeah? Your favourite billionaire is even getting in on the action! “https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2021/01/11/bill-gates-backed-climate-solution-gains-traction-but-concerns-linger/
The US and UK governments have for decades been developing weather manipulation technologies, including Stratospheric Aerosol Injections (SAIs).
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/shortcuts/2015/feb/16/can-the-cia-weaponise-the-weather-geoengineering
https://www.seas.harvard.edu/news/2019/03/finding-right-dose-for-solar-geoengineering
John Brennan, former CIA Director discusses SAIs at the CFR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B7x1lr2KN8
Ah, that’s another conspiraloon thing that has been proven to be a real thing, just like the agenda to microchip everyone.
Kids, along wiith immature adults & paedophiles have always thought kids were one step ahead of their parents, Boe.
I think this is just a case of saying anything to keep Covid in the narrative tbh
I think you’re right.
It’s all about triggering people and keeping them glued to media.
Ignore. Just clickbait.
And besides, it’s very few under 15 kids who would go against their parents wishes.
“Not while you’re under my roof” etc etc
Be grand.
I have ta’ ask
Everyone now
Back in – say April May 2020
Did ye ever think we’d see the likes of this
12 yr olds making decisions like the above
Health workers being removed from their place of work by law enforcement, or any workers
People opting to take animal worming treatments rather than see a doctor
Bio hazard passports to get sausages n’ chips
Live gigs from cattle corrals
Caps on All Ireland Tickets
No entry to ‘Merika for Tourists or non resident Employees or Conferences Attendees
Cause I didn’t
Anyone?
Only the tin foilers.
I’ll admit I just didn’t think that far ahead
And didn’t involve myself beyond being patient and hoping we’d all get back to normal
No way did I expect to see such division
Or that people would consume animal pharmaceuticals
Or physically remove sick people from hospitals
Or that the US wouldn’t be open for business
And do you know what
I don’t believe the most ardent tingfoiler believed it either
‘I don’t believe the most ardent tingfoiler believed it either’
You are mistaken.
Well that wouldn’t be the first time
:)
It helps if you believe that everything that does happen, some of which were predicted or speculated upon, some which were not, is all part of an evil plan that is unfolding like clockwork. Once you take that as your starting point, everything else makes complete sense.
“It helps if you believe that everything that does happen, some of which were predicted or speculated upon, some which were not, is all just chaotic happenings without any order, no influencing powers, no vested interests or agendas. Once you take that as your starting point, everything else makes complete sense.”
Wars just happen. The transfer of trillions in wealth from the general populace to the richest in the world, just happens. Nigel is a coincidence theorist. He believes everything is just a coincidence.
E’matty, allow me to introduce you to a concept that actually does make a kind of sense of a lot of the seeming chaos and corruption and unfairness of the world, some of which may be planned, some of which may not, some of which may be plans gone awry, some of which may be incompetence, and which allows for the likelihood of things happening in secret and of systems designed and influenced to benefit a few – the excluded middle.
Frilly, back in Feb/March 2020 us so called tinfoilers were specifically warning that this would run for months and months, even years, not two weeks, we were laughed at. We said States would use it to impose long lasting ultra authoritarian measures to control their citizens, we were scoffed at. We said vaccines would be presented as the only solution, all alternatives demonised and rubbished. We said we would see Vaccine Pass societies emerge. That children (indeed all of society) would be coerced into receiving these “vaccines”. We also predicted that vaccine would not provide the panacea most had been conditioned to expect. The normies have been worng every step of the way whilst we have been correct. Yet, their delusion allows them to carry on acting like they were correct and we were wrong. They usually scoff and sneer at something we suggest, it manifests, they then act like they knew it would all along, it was so obvious, of course they knew, but they’ll now treat the idea as if it was never anything to worry about anyway. This plays out time and again with the normie, the world is as it is presented to us, types. They revel in their own ignorance and consider unquestioning obedience to authority a virtue. Research is something only governmemt approved experts do. The idea a citizen would have a mind of their own and be intelligent enough to understand any topic without expert instructions to tell them what to think on the particular subject is a ludicrous notion to these mindless unthinking herd animals.
Did you really?
Did you say it to yourself? or can you link to posts from last March where you made all these dire predictions.
Oh: and do your own research:
https://xkcd.com/2515/
ah yes Cian, the auld mocking sneering “Do your own research” pro vaxxer trope. You guys have been conditioned to believe you are simply too stupid and intellectually challenged (it may be the case for many of you in truth) to believe you could possibly comprehend such topics and that therefore you must abdicate all responsbility for thinking for oneself and simply blindly follow a voice of authority, and only one that is government approved of course. They tell you what is right and wrong. You follow. You guys actually revel in such obedience, see it as a virtue and sneer and deride anyone who has the termerity to think they could possible research such information and come to their own conclusions. That’s crazy Far Right thinking to believe you could do such a thing! As someone who has known since 10 that my IQ puts me in the top 1%, I have never suffered your lack of confidence in your own intellect. Indeed, my job has requird that I assimilate large quantities of data on a range of subjects (including vaccines) and then identify the key information in that dataset. Just about anyone can actually understand many of the basic principles at play here. Indeed, basic logic and reasoning skills alone are often all that is required to identify the inconsistencies and contradictions in the official narratives.
“We said States would use it to impose long lasting ultra authoritarian measures to control their citizens”
You have to show a pass that you’ve either had COVID, been vaccinated or had a PCR test to eat indoors. And you have to wear a mask on public transport.
Otherwise things are actually returning to normal. It’s not exactly ultra-authoritarian.
As someone who has known since 10 that my IQ puts me in the top 1%,
Right, so when you were 10 you had the same score in IQ tests as an average 13-year old. Wow, that is so smart.
I think you are a prime candidate for the auld Dunning–Kruger effect Mr. 1%.
WRONG- tests are not accepted in Ireland only clot shots- that is nowhere near normal.
@jonboy – for no logical medical reason, hundreds of thousands of citizens are being denied access to bars, restaurants, sports and music events, etc. In this country, we had a govenment who restricted citizen travel to 5KM from their home, and only for government approved reasons. Our right to assembly and protest were obliterated, our freedom of expression attacked, where only State approved narratives were deemed appropriate, our right to travel was extinguished and is still restricted, our right to bodily integrity and privacy are under attack as the State seeks to coerce the entire population into receiving the fastest vaccines ever developed in human history, and not just marginally faster, almost a full 5 times faster (previous record, 4 years, we had 6 within 10 months, all approved) with those refusing being sidelined in their occupation (nurses removed from the frontline) and so much more. But, you guys think this is all just dandy. Nowt authoritarian about a country where the Taoiseach actually believes he has the authority and right to tell us all “you are now allowed hug your granny”.
May I ask, what would have to happen for you to actually believe the country had engaged in authoritarianism. Is it only the most extreme form of death camp or perhaps street executions for you? Anything less, ah sure that’s not real authoritarianism. Please do tell us what has to happen before you go “ah, hang on a minute”?
@SOQ I can’t find any info on why you can’t get a Cert based on a test, every site says you can get one, maybe that’s just for travel, I’ll have to look into it.
@Matty the majority of those things are either in the past or will be reversed on October 22nd. It’s hardly North Korea.
For me to believe it was an authoritarian state I would have to actually see rights such as freedom of speech removed, not just in the middle of a health crisis and then returned.
it would give anyone rational pause to question what the next evolution of this situation looks like
So not Nigel.
You ain’t seen nothin’ yet, Frilly…
An’ d’ya know what Kavan
I’m sorry I bloody asked
Guess what everybody
Life is still living
In as much as it can
Try and find something out there
And get out of this rut
A moral dilemma and a legal intricacy. Lots of work for lawyers.
Not smart enough to vote, not mature enough to have intercourse/consume alcohol/drive/smoke, but allowed to overrule their parents for medical decisions?
Not all children are in ideal family situations. This at least allows some chance for those kids to exercise autonomy in their own best interests.
Isn’t this is exactly like that time the state allowed pharmaceutical companies inject children in mother and child homes with experimental vaccines?
I’m sure Cian and Nigel will nod their retrospectively approval of that too.
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/10/23/mother-and-baby-and-medical-trials/
No. This is nothing like that. This is so far removed from that you had to break the laws of physics to make the comparison.
So injecting experimental vaccines into children was wrong then but now it’s our duty.
Riiiight…
Glad you’ve cleared that up.
Who said ‘duty?’ Oh, you did, that’s who.
You seem to think everyone has a duty to get themselves injected with these experimental concoctions.
Did I pick this up wrong? Do you now agree that every individual has the right to medical autonomy?
Of course I do. I may argue with your stupid conspiracy theory nonsense, but at the end of the day, I have no say whatsoever in whether you or anyone else takes the vaccine. Public service workers, particularly those in the health services, may be the exception, but even so I hate to see people being coerced.
I notice you can’t agree without an ad hominem.
What you call “stupid conspiracy” is actually real world results of the experiment.
It is now known that the vaccines don’t prevent infection or transmission. Check Singapore for the latest confirmation of this.
Since your so big on consent don’t you think people should be allowed the actual results of these experimental vaccine trials before they injection?
And shouldn’t it also be discussed – as part of the consent process – that the largest state in India Uttar Pradesh is now COVID free thanks to Ivermectin.
It’s not an ad hom, it is my opinion on the stupidity of your conspiracy theories.
Vaccines reduce chances of infection, reduce chances of spreading infection. That’s all it’s ever been claimed they would do, and it’s what they do.
As far as I’m aware all available results of trials and studies related to the vaccines have been disclosed.
By all means discuss Uttar Pradesh.
Facts first, then consent.
The mRNA concoctions were originally said to be 90+ per cent effective.
That is obviously now not the case: They don’t prevent infection, they don’t prevent illness, they don’t prevent death by COVID.
In fact, according the the CITIBANK graph that was recently memory holed, the vaccines may in deed make things worse.
India, Japan, Peru, and others show that use of Ivermectin is an effective treatment.
Don’t you think people should be told all of this? Especially the children.
All these facts should be part of the consent process you must surely agree.
Don’t worry, there are plenty of sites online pumping out crank disinformation that fulfills your needs.
There’s the white flag of surrender right there…
Do you realise that for any vaccine/medicine to become regulated it needs to be tested in trials?
Do you realise that for any vaccine/medicine to become regulated for children it needs to be tested on children?
There needs to be some cohort of children that are injected with “experimental vaccines/medicines” before you can get to the stage where it is no longer experimental.
So yeah, my children got vaccinated with the tried-and-tested safe vaccines like MMR and BCG because at some stage in the past there were children whose gardians consented to getting “experimental vaccines”.
There needs to be some cohort of children that are injected with “experimental vaccines/medicines” before you can get to the stage where it is no longer experimental.
You are advocating for children to be injected before even the medium adult safety data set has been returned, let alone long term safety data.
That is wrong on so many levels, especially as children are at little or no risk in the first place.
“ There needs to be some cohort of children that are injected with “experimental vaccines/medicines” before you can get to the stage where it is no longer experimental.”
For a disease that statistically doesn’t hurt them?
Cool. Your kids first pal.
Nice wan
this was a response to @hmmm
context matters
…cian has gone full Greg Stillson with that post.
https://deepfocusreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/deadzone3.jpg
So Cian, you seem ok with mass experimenting in th epast on irish children… are you now offering your children up to test the experimental COIVD vaccines of todyay?
Would you be ok if your children took part in a medical experiment at their school without your consent?
You are exceedingly ridiculous, Nigel, do you actually believe the claptrap you utter?
Do you think that the statement ‘not all children are in ideal family situations’ is utter claptrap?’ You people are mystifying when it comes to the arbitrary nature of what you find believable or not.
Yes, overrule their parents.
There is generally a doctor involved too. And the doctors have two roles – (1) to see if the child is both informed and competent enough to make the decision; and (2) that the chosen treatment is suitable, and as Nigel says, in the child’s best interests.
With no medium or long term safety data, it is pretty reasonable to assume that the parent is not fully informed either.
But sure as long as teacher feels safe and teacher feels secure then that is all that matters eh?
[….] fully informed […]
Have you ever been *fully* informed on any medical decision you made?
Do you know each and every one of the side effects of, say, paracetamol (or any over-the-counter drug you may have taken)? If not, you weren’t fully informed.
Once more for Jesus- NO MEDIUM OR LONG TERM SAFTY DATA- when was the last time an adult was expected to take such, let alone a child?
Even the manufactures admit to this as being the reason for indemnity- what is wrong with you people?
You keep saying “fully informed”.
I understand that this is a new vaccine. I understand that there is no long term safety data. I am informed.
Do you understand that SARS-CoV-2 is also new? and there is no long term data on the side affects of getting Covid19?
What is wrong with you people?
“ What is wrong with you people?”
Honestly, I think a lot of people would rather take their chances with the virus at this stage.
Especially since the vaccines have been politicised to hell and now seem that people’s future freedoms will be contingent on getting boosters – possibly into infinity.
People just want to go back to normal and they thought the vaccines were their ticket to that.
It’s turning out it isn’t.
@ Cian. I am saying that nobody could be fully informed and that while we all agree on the risk benefit ratio for the vaccination of high risk vulnerable- it makes absolutely no sense when it comes to healthy children or young people.
The people whom long term complications will impact most are those who are at least risk of CoVid-19 in the first place. Crazy stuff.
@ Cian – Your HIV awaits. Perhaps deep down you already know and you want to bring down innocent souls with you.
https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/stabilising-the-code
While I’ve been taken aback by the proud ignorance of some of the more ill-informed & scientifically illiterate people on here, I never realized how many disgustingly creepy bugmen lurked in this space.
This is utilising the same logic that Judith Butler used to justify incest.
We need a giant can of Raid for these ‘roaches.
Hear hear, this whole situation has been illuminating as to how much malevolence exists in this country. I feel pity for the genuinely decent people that have been manipulated into the poison jabs, but the loudmouth ring leaders? Not a jot.