Lian writes:
Would be grateful if you could highlight the conversation going on at #WakingTheFeminists on twitter. Huge response to the national theatre’s 2016 programme including only 1 woman playwright and 3 women directors out of 10 productions for next year.
Theatre may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but it’s a bigger conversation that that about gender equality in our society in general, not just across arts organisations. For a state-funded organisation whose mission includes representing the nation, the Abbey don’t have a great track record on identifying and dealing with its own gender-bias.
More Thoughts (and stats) on Women Writers at the Abbey (Patrick Lonergan)
Abbey Theatre celebrates 1916 centenary with only one woman playwright (Una Mullally, Irish Times)
out of curiosity whats the participation rate or percentage of women playwrights and directors in theatre in Ireland?
Most Irish women that get involved in theatre want to be actresses, why, I don’t know. But the really sad part is that most male writers only create great characters for men. So it’s a crappy situation overall. I would say it’s not the Abbey’s problem, but because they get so much state subsidy and developing writers and directors is part of their remit, in this case it is.
See the link to stats I posted longer down
Saw the link, haven’t time to read it all right now, but from what I can tell your 56/44 figure is for ‘theatre practioners’ but does not break them down into individual practices. It also states on the same page that there is a fall off of female practitioners after the age of 40 and then main reason cited was that there was a lack of good female roles for women over 40.
It shows. The report breaks them down into directors/playwrights/etc, tech and actors. There is an even split by gender. Most women aren’t simply pretty actresses. Yes, women leave at 40 because of ageist casting policies but also because, HOLD YOUR HATS EVERYONE, they are doing most of the childcare. Repeat ad nauseum as a pretty good bet on why women leave any industry.
Alright, I’ll say I’m wrong for now and will give it a good read later.
It’s about ten years old but pretty interesting (i.e I searched for 10 secs), especially the tech split.
Don, At least read your own sources. That is not how they break it down at all
The gender breakdown in the three sample sub-groups (performing artists; production artists; other practitioners) groups is fairly consistent, with slightly more men in the third group (which includes technical and managerial jobs), at
64%.
In other words, There are no figures for directors and writers as they are lumped in with other areas such as lighting and costume (which are both quite gender biased unless things have changed massively since my time working in the theatre)
Yes, I know, hence directors/playwrights/etc. If you read below, i also say it would be better have this broken down further so we could really tell what is happening. I would also hesitate to suppose the the 190 people in the graph are all of the people involved in theatre but it’s better than people just mouthing off isn’t it?
Thank you for your concern.
Way to generalise there. That’s what the whole conversation needed.
If you can provide figures that disprove my generalization I will be happy to accept it as wrong.
See the link I posted below!
Cheers Don! I was just about to gear up the aul google machine.
I have mad google skills meadow and a love for data!
#lovestats
would it not be better to put on plays people want to see? rather than a gender quota?
some people love to find ways to play the victim
+1
+2
Sounds like misogyny talking.
Or, you know, sense in this case. Gender quotas are a bad idea.
Gender quotas are absolutely a necessarily evil in many circumstances. This isn’t one of them though. Probably.
I disagree, I think people should be hired and promoted based on merit regardless of gender.
If people were actually hired on the basis of merit then there wouldn’t be any need for quotas.
I am J . Thief
that’s right, put them wimmen in their place, good on ya, you inbred hick!
The middle-class lefty whitest Irish are upset on Twitter. What’s new.
It is the content that rules here – not gender. The latter would be discriminating.
Mullally’s argument is extremely weak here.
yup
if I like Sean O’Casey plays its because I enjoy the content…I couldn’t give a rat’s bottom passage whether he was a guy a woman transexual or martian
this kind of tripe indeed makes me wonder whether modern life is sometimes a pile of poo
But if Sean O’Casey had been a woman, you *might* not have been able to enjoy his play because of gender bias…
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts……
I doubt that very much. The nationalist plays in particular would have been staged either way because of the real life themes they addressed. Plus the Abbey was founded by a man and a woman so there is little evidence of gender bias.
Plus they had yer man Markievicz. He wouldn’t have tolerated any discrimination.
So all the people commenting here so far think it’s likely that 90% of the better plays (not just new plays mind you, but also all plays ever that the Abbey had to choose from) were all by men? Or could it be that there’s a different kind of gender quota at play here, one involving unconscious bias? I’ll just add that someone did the sums and has calculated that since 1966 the Abbey’s main stage has produced 320 plays by men and 6 by women. No, that’s not a typo, it really is 6.
Sure, can’t the wimminz just write a play that people will actually like, like instead of whining about their periods and babies and vaginas?
lulz
And you don’t see anything wrong with this comment? This method?
Don’t ask me, I’m just a wimonen. I’m off to paint something pink with glitter and unicorns.
Do, do YOU find that funny??
About as funny as you, yeah. Ta-ra!
“So all the people commenting here so far think it’s likely that 90% of the better plays (not just new plays mind you, but also all plays ever that the Abbey had to choose from) were all by men?”
Yes but not because men are simply better at writing plays but because far more men try to write plays than women. I would say your figures there of 320 men v 6 women is a symptom rather than the cause of the problem.
“far more men try to write plays than women”. Any data or sources for that statement? And if not, why are you making it?
It’s a man thing. You wouldn’t understand.
:-D
I thought that I was speculating here is obviously implied. Perhaps I was wrong. The fact is, you don’t know why there are so few female produced plays to male ones, any more than I do do. You see 320 plays v 6 and think it’s bias. It’s as if you think they must have rejected 314 female plays. There is no evidence for that. I think the far more likely explanation is that they have received far less female written plays than male ones.
+1
Well put. The implicit assumption that there’s hordes of deserving and qualified writers and directors who have been dumped in favour of people who happen to be men needs to be challenged.
Symptom rather that the cause as Moyest says. Why wouldn’t the Abbey love to be breaking new ground with great (female) talent?
But why are there so fewer women playwrights? Perhaps consciously making an effort to highlight works by women would encourage more women to write.
You think the population of working playwrights in Ireland is likely to be 90% male? Or that the pool of plays ever written that the Abbey had to draw upon were 90% written by men? Or even anything close to those percentages?
These figures are truly stark, and I find it notable that anyone could look at them and not think they were a problem of The Abbey’s selection and/or mentoring processes.
Producing the best plays, including those written by, directed by, and starring women would encourage more interest.
I hardly think below-par productions that are only included because a woman is involved at a high level would turn more people off, surely.
And the 4 (female) professionals selected here can be sure they’ve been selected because they’re excellent.
“But why are there so fewer women playwrights?”
That’s the more important question, I think. I don’t think The Abbey are obliged to solve this problem though. Maybe a designated day every week/month/quarter for female produced plays would help, or a festival for female produced plays. There, the focus is on the social issue of gender. When it comes to the general programme, I think gender quotas are borderline patronising.
“I find it notable that anyone could look at them and not think they were a problem of The Abbey’s selection and/or mentoring processes.”
If it’s The Abbey who are at fault here, then every other theatre would have a relatively healthy balance between male and female written plays. It would just be The Abbey with far more male written plays than female. Is that the case? I genuinely don’t know.
only 1 woman playwright and 3 women directors out of 10 productions for next year.
So forty percent? So roughly just under half?
Those monsters.
Sigh. 10 plays, each with a playwright and a director, so 20 individuals involved, of whom 4 are women. So that’s 20%.
Sigh…. my point was that 40% have a female input at a top level.
As for the gender imbalance, there is no agenda here.
If more women write plays then more women will be represented. If you have tried and not gotten a play on in the abbey, or attempted to work your way to a position of director and failed then it is on your ability and not your gender the blame is to be placed.
“If more women write plays then more women will be represented.” Where do you get your figures that fewer women write plays?
You know what, you’re right.
Lets make the abbey select a 50/50, nothing based on talent or quality. that’ll work.
Tbf, talent should be on an even spectrum across both genders due to chance. If there is already a fairly even 50/50 split in terms of directors and playwrights as below, then you would expect to see an equal number of plays by both men and women all things equal. Which clearly they aren’t for some reason.
Tbf, talent should be on an even spectrum across both genders due to chance.
Thats a bit of an assumption there Don. As you would say yourself, wheres the evidence?
Because that’s how chance works based on statistics.
As you yourself…. jesus, does anyone on here use the same login ever or is it jsut me?
No – Prop Joe – sighing right back at you. Don’t comment unless you understand the industry. It is incorrect to say 40% of productions have women at the helm.
There are 10 plays in the programme. So that’s 10 directors, plus 10 writers – 20 roles.
There are two female directors, and one female writer programmed.
So, lets do the maths – 20 roles (10 writers + 10 playwrights) but only 3 females involved. That is 15% representation of females. Not 40%. You’re welcome.
Ah here where are you going with that maths stuff?
And why focus on just two roles in an entire production?
There are males and female members on the casts and the production teams. The stage is particularly focused around teamwork and does not nourish personal egos in any production.
Because the top roles in any industry are the most respected and why should 15% of them go to men?
Also, casting inequity in theatre is also a huge problem, with massive gender disparities as well.
Gender quotas give me a pain in the boo-boos.
Prop Joe, that’s two categories – directors and playwrights, so if you are doing the whole maths thing, thats 200% (90% written by men) 70% directed by men, so that makes 20% of the whole thing, not 40!
I will lobby the owners of mines that have an unwritten policy of hiring only males, that is discriminatory, because the equipment available make the job accessible to any able bodied person and talent is not an issue. Somehow I feel there won’t be much demand from women wanting these jobs.
As for the theatre, I will not be lobbying them because it is not a matter of statistical balance. Show me a list of productions by women that were turned down in spite of being the best contenders to be played at the time – that will make me think about the issue.
I wish people would stop using conversation to describe everything. Not a day passes without some passive aggressive lefty demanding that we “stort a conversation”. Its a row, no more. And anywhere you get the Mullalys of the world, its never a conversation, its an harangue. A wha’ Vincent?
Women should probably promote those that have made it rather than moaning.
Moaning is the female way, it’s way easier than achieving…
Paul has a tiny brain – in his tiny willy
Guys guys, STATS ARE HERE!!
The gender split is about 56% men vs 44% women, similar across actors, directors etc and tech staff. Shame they don’t break it down further though.
http://www.artscouncil.ie/uploadedFiles/Main_Site/Content/Research_and_Publications/Theatre/theatre_socio_study.pdf
And watch the goalposts move in 5…4…3…
So to recap. The majority of BS commenters here today think there’s nothing remotely odd about the National Theatre (co-founded by a woman, almost entirely paid for by another one in its early days) announcing an annual programme (in 2016 of all years) of plays of which 90% are by men. Or that only 6 of the 326 plays on its main stage in the last 50 years have been by women?
So far we’ve had unsubstantiated claims that a) there are very few women playwrights, b) women’s plays just aren’t as good c) it doesn’t matter. Interestingly a lot of people have mentioned gender quotas, while automatically assuming that these only ever apply to women. 90% male programming in a profession with an almost even gender split of playwrights is in itself a gender quota.
I don’t think anyone said there’s nothing odd about it. The issue is whether or not the ratio in the Abbey is a symptom of a problem or the problem itself. If it’s just The Abbey who are the problem, then other major theatres will have a relatively balanced ratio between male and female produced plays. Is that the case? I really don’t know.
I do see is a trend: the average you mention over 50 years is only 1.8% female, so 10% in 2016 is a substantial increase.
Excellent. So you’re saying that we’re on track to achieve parity in about 200 more years? I can’t think why no-one else has seen it in that light :-D
There isn’t enough data to establish what the rate of progression looks like – your ‘projection’ makes no sense . I am just pointing at the obviously ‘improved’ figure – but since we are speculating, this increase COULD indicate actual gains and change of approach inside the theatre’s board.
I’m not suggesting that the projection is accurate, but you can definitely make it!
I’m a female playwright, hear me roar.
Great piece by Patrick Lonergan. It is a pity there isn’t more reasoned debate on this rather than the focus on the headline numbers. It takes along time to incubate a play for a national stage.
I’m not quite sure what your point is here – you seem to be implying that women only took up playwriting in the last few months/years. Whereas The Abbey was co-founded by a woman – and you realise that one of the plays in their programme is by Shakespeare? they were basically choosing 10 plays from the entire canon of all theatre ever written in English, and could still only find 1 woman to stage.
My point is that firstly it was a good piece by Patrick Lonergan. The second point was that it takes time to create material for a big stage. We don’t know what the split of budding male female playwrights is. It would be interested in see what Fishambles experience is in that area as they are solely focused on new writing http://fishamble.com/category/archive/ or what Project have found. Under the previous director of Literary Affairs who was a woman, there was concerted push to develop new Irish writing by women and that took time. There are some posts that accept de facto that there is an inherent consistent institutional bias against womens writing in the Abbey since inception to now?
It’s telling, and depressing, how many guys on this thread make the immediate assumption that a programme that leans massively towards work written, directed and produced by men is just a natural outcome, and that if there’s been any failure it’s on the part of women just not being good enough, or not putting themselves forward. Worse is their follow-on assumption that these failures are just the natural run of things, and no further discussion or interrogation of the facts is required.
I really doubt that the submissions and potential plays were as male-dominated as the final programme (especially given the stats posted by Don Pidgeoni above); if they were, that probably speaks to some deeper problem in the way that the Abbey is soliciting work or in the experience women have of trying to have their work shown there (like, this isn’t the first time the Abbey has been accused of sexism; maybe many female playwrights just aren’t bothering with it any more). I also doubt that the work submitted by men is, on aggregate, overwhelmingly better (in that objective way that plays can be “better”, ya know) to a factor of 9:1. But again, if that is true, it seems unlikely that the reason for that is just that men are somehow just objectively better at ‘theater’, in general.
For what it’s worth, my assumption is that there’s probably some level of unconscious sexism in the selection process (mostly because unconscious sexism is pretty much everywhere) and a bias for the 1916 centenary towards plays written back when there was much more conscious sexism, skewing the writer stats even worse. But if I’m wrong and it’s down to submission rates or quality, the Abbey, a national theater that receives significant public funding, should surely be deeply worried about the fact that it’s genuinely unable to come anywhere near some kind of gender balance. We should all be incredibly worried that, culturally, we’re losing out on the voice of half our potential playwrights. Our reaction should be “How can we fix this?”, not “Where’s the problem?”. Like her or not, Mullaly’s right that a 2016 programme where 90% of the plays were written by women and 70% directed by women would be received with shock. People would cry “PC madness!” and talk about gender quotas and feminazis. No one would suggest that maybe the men just needed to work harder, or be better. No one would say “Well, one of the founders of the Abbey was a guy, so there can’t be a problem here”. It should be the same here, and it’s only the overwhelming male dominance of our cultural output to date that’s making people so blase about this.
this. And very well put. I think it’s extremely disturbing how strongly the response in this comments section has been a determination to normalise a 90/10 gender divide, rather than simply acknowledge that it’s a problem. That this has involved illogical argument and invented ‘facts’ about the quality or quantity of female playwrights is another problem, but not as serious as the instinct to defend an obviously anomalous situation. Assuming that not everyone here is a sock-puppet for senior Abbey staff (and I presume they’re not) then these commenters should really ask themselves what it is they’re defending, other than the status quo.
So how many female written plays did The Abbey reject then?
all but one ever written, it would appear.
And how many is that, since we’re talking about ‘facts’?
I doubt anyone knows – but you started the quest for specific numbers, and yet you’ve contributed none.
No, that was yourself when you asked for data earlier, remember? You seem to have a problem with people speculating as to the reasoning behind the disparity without any facts yet you’re doing the *exact* same thing.
No, I provided data/figures.
You provided the numbers of female written plays v male written plays. You have not provided any data on *why* that disparity exists.
That isn’t a matter for data in that sense, but interpretation. And my interpretation is that something, somewhere, in the Abbey commissioning system is biased against women playwrights. I say this on the grounds that many women have written plays over many centuries, many of which have been successfully staged all over the world in major theatres. Therefore if our National Theatre is producing 90% male programmes in 2016 and has produced more than 98% male programmes for the main stage over the last 50 years, the problem likely lies with them rather than the world’s female playwrights. I really would not have thought this was a very controversial interpretation. Do you?
“That isn’t a matter for data in that sense, but interpretation.”
And that’s my point. Your position seems to be that this is the fault of The Abbey. That this problem of 9 plays on the 2016 programme against 1 play written by a woman is a unique problem in itself thus The Abbey should be chastised because it must due to subconscious or otherwise bias against women. My point is that it’s far more likely to be a symptom of a societal problem at large. I have the same amount of data for that theory as you do for yours.
“I really would not have thought this was a very controversial interpretation.”
For that to work, the disparity between male and female written plays would only exist in The Abbey. Most, if not all, other theatres would be much closer to 50/50. So is that how it is? I genuinely don’t know.
So you didn’t read Lonergan’s piece before participating in this discussion?
I did. Which bit did I miss then?
+1 to Ms Piggy and Nially
Niall, thank you!!!
Good article on the Guardian about the split in British theatre. They also have an ‘imbalance’. Note that there are very few male voices in the article though.
It points at “directors, only 24% employed were women; and when we examined creative teams (directors, designers, sound designers, composers), 23% were women.
http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2012/dec/10/women-in-theatre-glass-ceiling
its clearly wrong and weird, end of story. Abbey website seems to be down. For similar, anyone remember the Field Day debacle? Resulted in a hasty publication of a volume of writing by women – implication being everything else was the ‘norm’ and women writers need their own category. This is how unconscious bias works, and it is good it is brought to attention so the biased wake up!
The issue is not really how many plays written by women were rejected by the Abbey. In fact, the Abbey very rarely produces unsolicited scripts. They tend to build up relationships with playwrights, and then commission new plays with them. This process, as you can imagine, is not particularly transparent, so it can be difficult to identify where playwrights who are women fall through the cracks.
There are many many plays written by women every year. Most appear in theatres around the country and in Dublin that are not the Abbey. When the Abbey stage plays by women, they are mostly put on in the Peacock, which is much smaller. There has been no explanation as to why this is.
Most of the work written by women and staged at the Abbey is new writing. They rarely put on plays written by women in the past. There is a wealth of scripts sitting in the archives that are good quality and would be worthy of revival, but the Abbey seems to focus on new writing. Why don’t they produce some of these plays?
The Abbey is our national theatre. If the conversation there is dominated by male voices, then women are not participating in the national discourse. That cannot be allowed to continue.
From the cache for Abbey Theatre’s website (site is offline at the moment), there seems to be a strong female presence in the management team
:
Abbey Theatre Staff, Board and Company Details
Director / CEO
Fiach Mac Conghail
Senior Management Team
Director of Finance and Administration
Declan Cantwell
Director of Public Affairs and Advancement
Oonagh Desire
Head of Production
Aisling Mooney
Department Contacts
ADMINISTRATION
HR Manager
Jenny Holland
Financial Controller
Paul Meagher
ARTISTIC
Associate Producer
Lara Hickey
Casting Director
Kelly Phelan
Voice Director
Andrea Ainsworth
LITERARY
Literary Manager
Jessica Traynor
Archivist
Mairead Delaney
PUBLIC AFFAIRS
Head of Sales & Customer Service
Eileen Collins
Head of Communications
Myra McAuliffe
Marketing Manager
Fergus Hannigan
Community and Education Manager
Phil Kingston
Visitor Services Manager
Con Doyle
Event Sales Manager
Laura Pulling
Sales and Ticketing Manager
Elaine Mannion
TECHNICAL
Head of Costume
Niamh Lunny
Head of Sound and Lighting
Kevin McFadden
Head of Stage Management
John Stapleton
Head of Technical Stage
Pat Dillon
Senior Production Manager
Andy Keogh
The board is not too bad either:
BOARD
Dr. Bryan McMahon ( Chairman )
Jane Brennan
Dónall Curtin
Loretta Dignam
Thomas Kilroy
Deirdre Kinahan
Niamh Lunny
James McNally
Sheelagh O’Neill
Mark Ryan
Paul Smith
Lots of women in senior positions, even more than men. Where is it suggested that this this ‘sexism’ is originating from?
Game, set and match….. manolo.
Not really. Yes the management are mostly women but everyone knows HR isn’t even a job. HR, PR events and comms tend to be many women so it’s not surprising that those positions are women at the Abbey.
Equality in this circumstance still doesn’t explain why there is one play by a female playwright or whatever it is.
You’re really grasping.
What, do you think the PR, comms or HR person has decision-making capacity around which plays get put on? lol ok
The comment is on the board, 5 or 11 are women.
Oh “you’re really grasping” means the board is 50% women does it? Sorry, I misunderstood.
Even then, the board isn’t picking the plays according to the website. Clearly they need to work on their strategy, maybe there is something in the pipeline.
What is interesting is this:
“We shield the identity of the writer from the readers at all times so that the reading will be completely unbiased. Scripts which have the writer’s name on each page of the script will therefore not be accepted.”
This is a good step and being discussed in the UK around job applications and ethnic minorities. But……. you also need to consider how many of the plays submitted this way are recognisable in such a small population of playwrights. Working in a niche area myself, I know whose work is whose even if it is blinded. Secondly, I”m not sure how many of the plays for 2016 are by new as opposed to established playwrights.
The theatre. Do you not understand how any organisation, even one partly or wholly comprised of women, could still behave in a sexist way towards women? If a hypothetical group of women, raised in a patriarchal society, believed that men were more serious playwrights than women because they had seen plays mostly written by men produced during their lives, might that not be a sexist position?
Ah, right, so these are self hating uneducated women. Makes sense now.
See my comment above about grasping.
I was just helping the young man above who couldn’t comprehend how sexism could exist when there are women working in the office.
See your doctor’s comment about grasping. He’s already warned you’re going to do permanent damage to yourself if you don’t ease up.
How many of them are black gay Jews? Why just single out women if we’re going to start putting quotas on things? I have a Russian transgender friend who wrote a play about how Hitler was right. When can I say his/her shows runs?
Whataboutery at its finest!
Christ, it’s really becoming apparent that Broadsheet is a dead end for discussion about this stuff. I used to try to participate but there will always be a new wave of reddit alumni.
When Moyest is the voice of reason in a thread, you know the wimminz are on a hiding to nothing.
Personally I would hope that these plays were chosen along more creative lines than ‘what sex was the author of it’.
Right everyone! Rotide doesn’t like what we have said, strip it down and do it again until we get it right!
Im sure Garry Hynes and Marina Carr are on the edge of their seats waiting for the hashtag feminism on twitter to get them more gigs.
I don’t know about that. I do know that you are on the edge of your seat waiting to tell everyone off because they haven’t broadsheeted right or have, in fact, broadsheeted too much! How can we ever please your fickle nature rotide? Do you want a blood scarifice?!
No, You don’t know about that. Surprising.
I’m not telling anyone if their broadsheeting right or wrong. I’m telling you that my opinion is that you are a being a big stupid head about it. This is hardly a surprise because as you know I tend to think you are a big stupid head about a whole range of things.
But I don’t mind, You’re allowed to be a big stupid head about things. Many people are. It’s the nature of humanity. Maybe our differences is why are like moths to each others flame Don, It’s the spark that keeps our love fresh.
Steady on rotide! Don and I have a good thing going on. Three’s a crowd and all that!
Someone with a minion as their avatar is calling me a big stupid head? Oh-oh!!! I’m in trouble here!
I’m sorry, folks.
+1 rotide
Women were specifically and actively excluded from the professions and academia since time immemorial and there are multiple examples of women having to publish in literature and the sciences under a male name or to cede all credit to a husband or brother.
Clearly there are lyrical and expressive female voices but we haven’t quite shaken off our patronising default position with regard to how and when they are to be taken seriously.
An effort to redress the blatant imbalance and to promote and nurture female talent would allow for future role-models when we actually have actual equality.
In my opinion.
There has been plenty promotion for lacklustre male talent over the years, the claims for equality of merit are disingenuous if beguiling.
This was supposed to be a funny counterpoint-
a wealthy self-promoter who was oblivious or bloody obstinate- until I read the details omitted from previous hilarious accounts –
The undoing of a child prodigy:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Foster_Jenkins
You’re a crushing bore
; )
If the wimmin moaning are the ones that produce the likes of Guts and all that navel gazing poo , then thank fupp the Abbey are looking at content rather than a thick neck and a degree in Bullpoo.
I know you shouldn’t expect anything of btl comments anywhere online. But honestly I thought BS was a better, more logical and less downright dim location for them than this thread has suggested. Very depressing. Also, to the men here – you benefit from gender discrimination every day and always have done. This isn’t your personal fault, but the least (the very least) you could do is admit it.
Hmmm… so someone out of the blue is demanding for an online lynching of the national theatre for sexism using limited argumentation and short on relevant information on other similar places and we must feel guilty for not running for the pitchforks? Yeah, mea culpa. Please go easy on the caning while I go down on my knees.
Oh, look, the next performance at the Abbey is directed by a woman. Strange… http://www.abbeytheatre.ie/whats_on/event/the-forgotten-loubliee/
Watch the floodgates open now
We’re just not grateful
Did I hit a nerve with my comment? Ms Piggy if you have the talent, you will get the job. If however you are one of the ” my Daddy got me a job in Medjaaa ” and I puke at “Guts”, you won’t, because bland never sells.
I think the point of the article and the comments on it is to point out that if you have the talent, and you are a women, you will NOT get the job.
Unless of course you a women who has the talent and has the job.
You know, like the ones already mentioned here.
What about all those brilliant women who have? Unfortunately a lot of the women who are now moaning on twitter about perceived inequality at the Abbey are the middle class , Daddy got them a job ,sycophantic numbskulls, who only write (laboriously and badly) about themselves.
Obviously a small number of women are successful in having their plays staged at the Abbey, but the percentage of plays written by women there is very low. I don’t deny that some women (such as Marina Carr) have had plays produced there. The issue is a wider one, however.
Women write plays – and they have written damn good plays – yet only a tiny number of those plays are produced on the national stage. Generally, they are produced on the Peacock Stage to relatively small audiences. It is very rare for a play written by a woman to make the Abbey main stage (and before anyone points it out, I know that Marina Carr’s By the Bog of Cats was on the main stage this summer).
I have no idea what the socio-economic status of the women who comment on the underrepresentation of plays by women on the Abbey Stage has to do with anything.
The director of the abbey has said the choice of plays was his alone. So the fact of female representation on the board or in certain posts is not relevant. Do those who believe there is no bias really want to disavow the experiences of 50% of the population?
In terms of bias, you might read this – http://jezebel.com/homme-de-plume-what-i-learned-sending-my-novel-out-und-1720637627
Interesting that he has said that the choice was his alone. Do you know if this is generally the case in the Abbey? Does the Artistic Director have the last say in programming?
It’s art. Bias comes with the territory because people choose things they *like*.
“I have no idea what the socio-economic status of the women who comment on the underrepresentation of plays by women on the Abbey Stage has to do with anything.”
The ones moaning on twitter about a perceived inequality are the well off, entitled and precocious ” I want to be a writer “. Unfortunately their talent does not speak volumes, hence they shout loudest. ( PS I would also apply the same logic to men. BS is hardly a bastion of meritocracy , what with Dr . Who spouting complete drivel on a Monday . It’s not gender in Ireland that is the issue, it is who you know. So Boo, if you do have the talent, then let your work shout for you. Break the mould.
1:10 isn’t bad
In my gig, its currently 1:28
And we all tee off from the same box too
Like with playwriting and stuff
In my game if yere sh1te ya get found out quick enough
And you can get sued
And let’s be honest
Its the public / audience that arbitrates whether the writer is any good anyway
The same rules apply
Fir Mná
Lads ‘WANs
Ladies Gentlemen
If yer good
Yer good
How can the audience arbitrate whether you’re any good if they don’t get to see your play?!
Work harder
Make the cut
If its not here
Then move
I’m sorry if that comes across as harsh
But that the way it is in the workplace
In my game
While there’s thousands of hiding places for mediocre men and none for mediocre women
If you’re good
Make sure of it
Work hard and Step it up
Cribbing and looking for a dig out from the Sexism Sexist Choirs just makes you a pain in the whole.
I’m blue in the face from trying to get my voice heard instead of all the media nominated “experts”
But I’m keeping going
(For the time being anyway, but the day may come when I liquidate and EFF off to Frihilliana. And if it does I will have left nothing unsaid or undone)
Your comment seems to imply that the women who write plays that aren’t featured are not working hard. I dispute this. Plenty of these writers have to work doubly hard to get a smattering the attention that very average male playwrights get automatically.
This isn’t fair and it should not continue.
Drawing attention to inequality does not equate to moaning and complaining. Inequality never simply disappears on its own. It has to be recognised, spoken about, and tackled. Simply keeping your head down and working hard within a defective and discriminatory system won’t contribute to wider social change.
I agree with you
I know its not right
But time passes too quickly in the workplace
And getting yourself bogged down with grievances won’t pay the bills or get you the job you’re qualified for
Tell ya something else
In the workplace, although predominantly in the professions, exec level and senior public service
Women fear other women more
Than any lad
So though it’s not right, women should just shut up and put up with inequality?
Sorry Boo
But expecting it to change
And I’m 30 years post leaving cert BTW
Will stagnate your career
(Unless you’re a career feminist
And that’s what pays your bills
Then I tip my hat to you)
Up First
Best Dressed
And don’t dwell in in unfairness of it all
Because years will pass you by
Ok Boo. Send on all these brilliant written by women into BS and we shall arbitrate. Boo , if your play is up to scratch, you will get a hearing.
I couldn’t possibly send a list of all the plays written by women in Ireland into Broadsheet, it would be too long and take too much time to compile. I can, if you’re interested, direct you to two very interesting books on the topic:
http://www.palgrave.com/page/detail/women-in-irish-drama-melissa-sihra/?k=9780230006478&loc=uk.
http://www.peterlang.com/index.cfm?event=cmp.ccc.seitenstruktur.detailseiten&seitentyp=produkt&pk=53813.
The first is written by Melissa Sihra and it lists over two hundred Irish women playwrights and their works in the appendix.
The second is written by Cathy Leeney and focuses on a number of key playwrights in the period between 1900 and 1939. This book would reference a number of plays suitable for revival as part of the 1916 commemorations.
You say “if your play is up to scratch, you will get a hearing.” Unfortunately, all of the evidence points to the contrary. It’s a pity that many who comment here seem to be totally disinterested in evidence.
Boo
I don’t need evidence to know you’re fighting a good fight
I’ve been there
I’m úcking well upta me t1ts in it
But take my advice
Shur’up and get on with it
You’re gonna lose the best years of your life and deny your potential by focusing your efforts and time on the c**tology of it all
Keep this up Boo
And you’ll have broken your own heart
But your time and energy into your professional output
And your family
In 10 years time you’ll thank me
plays
Thanks for your concern Frilly, but I have buckets of energy to go round! Pointing out that something is wrong doesn’t automatically mean frustration and emotional ruin. I am well able for it!
There is a balance to be found between saying everything and saying nothing. Personally, I wouldn’t be able to handle saying nothing. But, that’s just me!