Incredible claim by @rodericogorman that adopted people may not want their medical information because there’s “something about their history they don’t want to know” as a reason for turning down one of @HollyCairnsTD’s amendments pic.twitter.com/MIwK2lFYnb
— Stephen Doyle (@dubsoulrebel) April 27, 2022
Yesterday evening.
Dail Eireann, Dublin 2.
TDs debated the Birth Information and Tracing Bill 2022 (Report and Final Stages), including the requirement for adopted people to take part in ‘information sessions’ before they can access records, in cases where their natural parents have said they do not want to be contacted,
During the debate, Minister for Children said he fully accepts his legislation will be challenged in the courts.
Independent Galway TD Catherine Connolly said:
“It sounds very serious when we say we have to balance the rights of the parents who do not want any contact. If the exercise in relation to the balancing of rights is necessary, it would be much more effective and in keeping with that obligation, if that obligation exists, to do what [Labour[ Deputy Ivana Bacik’s amendment is proposing, namely, to send a registered letter to everyone. Without a doubt, what the Government is doing here is, once again, infantilising women. I note the Minister is shaking his head. However, that is exactly what the Government is doing.
We are continuing here, as if this balancing of rights is something positive, after much struggle and debate, when it is perfunctory in the extreme. It can happen on Zoom or it can happen on a partly connected phone call, given the way that our phones are interrupted on a constant basis. It is simply perfunctory, insulting and unacceptable. For me, it is key that this requirement is dropped from the Bill. Unfortunately, my name is not on the amendment. Otherwise, I would certainly be pushing it to a vote. I cannot accept this. It has been pointed out by those who will suffer the most, and who have suffered the most. It has also been pointed out by the Irish Council for Civil Liberties and other human rights organisations. This is not a proper balancing of rights, if that is what needs to be done. We cannot set up the fundamental right to know one’s identity against privacy in this manner.”
Minister for Children O’Gorman replied:
“The information session is about the balancing of two sets of fundamental rights. There is the fundamental right to identity information of adopted people, and it is a right we all know has been denied for so long. There is also the fundamental right to privacy of a parent. The information session would apply in a very small number of circumstances because it will only apply where a parent has proactively indicated on the contact preference register a “no contact” preference
…In engaging with the Attorney General and in particular since the introduction of the GDPR, which is a much stronger recognition within EU law of privacy rights, we have been able to find a mechanism that seeks to balance those two sets of rights.
Minister O’Gorman added
“I strongly believe that at some point the legislation will be challenged. There is a very high likelihood that will happen. It is legitimate for someone to do that. We have waited 20 years for this legislation and seen four, five or six attempts at drafts of legislation not getting through this House because of an inability to resolve this matter. I do not want a result where the legislation, on which all of us in the House have worked very hard to get broad definitions and processes that are working well, would be at risk of constitutional challenge.
We went into the proposal of a registered letter. Notwithstanding the possibility of somebody signing to indicate receipt of the letter, there is the question of whether the point would be conveyed.”
Social Democrat TD Holly Cairns said:
“The committee’s pre-legislative scrutiny report was unambiguous in recommending that the mandatory information session should be removed from the legislation and that alternative appropriate safeguards should instead be provided for, such as the sending of correspondence by registered post. The Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission stated the information session presented an obstacle and potentially a complete barrier to individuals accessing long-sought information.
“The Council of Irish Adoption Agencies described it as contradictory to the spirit of the Bill. Others classified it as insulting, discriminatory and restrictive. That it is still in the Bill in its current form is deeply concerning. It is ignoring the wishes of people affected and human rights experts. If we accept the Minister’s argument that some mechanism is necessary to address balancing the rights to accessing information and privacy, then the registered post option should be pursued rather than the paternalistic and insulting requirement for an adopted person having to sit down with a State agent who explains what the person already knows. Adopted people are already very knowledgeable about access to information and privacy. They have been forced to be so by this and previous governments.”
Ms Cairns tabled an amendment that would ensure when ‘a relevant person applies for their personal data, the relevant body or the Authority will make available all medical records to the relevant person regardless of whether they have explicitly requested those items.”
Minister O’Gorman replied:
“As we have made very clear, a person will be able to tick a box and apply for all information. We have also made it clear that people can select which types of information they wish to receive. I think it is a good thing we give people agency over their determination about what information they can receive.
“There may be reasons – and I do not know what those reasons are – people do not wish to receive medical information. There may be something about their history they do not want to know. If they wish to make that choice, that is a choice they should make, and the legislation should not constrain or compel them to receive information that they may not wish to receive.”
Later…
And there you have it. I had a physical reaction to this. Sick. I wonder how many of them hadn’t a clue what they were voting on. #InfoBill #MotherAndBabyHomes #MyRecordsMyRight pic.twitter.com/M4OlciI9gz
— Thérèse (@teabiccy) April 27, 2022
Last night.
Thanks Breeda
scummy from O’Gorman but it’s difficult to expect anything else.
‘ah yeah, I might have a genetic timebomb that could kill me or ruin my life but why would I want to know that. To receive necessary care? Don’t be silly.’
the Minister for Shamelessness, Spinelessness, and Heartlessness…
Anyone is entitled to know who their real parents are and its about time this government was prevented from blocking anyone
It’s very unfortunate for all the people who had to live a lie because this nation in its past treated its people like criminals for having a baby out of wedlock
My parents had to flee to the UK in the 1950s because of the implications for our family and the nursing home I was born in was the Fatima nursing home in monkstown county Dublin
It burnt down in the years after I was born and I have contacted time and time again to get my birthing records and cannot get them
We are no longer that bigoted priest and num ridden state but still government is acting illegally
I must admit I find the whole saga draining and can only imagine how those directly affected feel.
The State have made it clear they DO NOT trust adoptees with their own information. Medical records will not be provided unless requested – why is that ? Is it due to the fact that somewhere in the files, there remains a note stating the type of Vaccine trial they were subjected to, without adequate oversight or parental consent ever sought? Or follow up to document adverse effects? Even the Commission found that vaccine trials were illegal and unethical at the time, and a breach of the Nuremberg Code.
With regard to the mandatory information session ; there are no words except to say the TD’s in Dail Eireann today are not happy about it and are actively working on how they can now impact to provide right of access to information without the necessary Zoom call or whatever. Thank you to those who continue to engage with us.
We see ‘false and misleading’ information replaces the’illega’ adoption term.
Adoptees have waited decades for legislation that provides parity of esteem, that allows them retrieve their early life, birth and medical information we take for granted.
Legislation to rectify has been in and around Dail Eireann since 2000 or thereabouts; Frank Fahey rang the Radio Station Galway Bay FM when I spoke of this as I did not include his name. I had begunn the roll call of shame with Mary Hanafin. Frank’s term as Minister for Children was 1997-2000
How many adoptees have passed away in the interim ?
How many will pass away until legislation granting them unfettered access is in place?
Thank you, Breeda.
This is awful, I don’t know where you find the strength Breeda, but keep fighting.
Thank you for your support. It’s a continuous fight. Three pieces of legislation currently before Dáil – We are overwhelmed – it could all be sorted simply for all three pieces of legislation if Minister O Gorman adopted a human rights framework. Dr Geoffrey Shannon reminded Minister Zappone of rights applicable to the deceased and to their families to know how and why they died. That is just one element of the burials legislation. Redress legislation is with the Children’s Committee who will again produce a comprehensive report which the Government will likely ignore. They continue to deny redress to children of institutions who were less than six months in the ‘home’ ; the boarded out; the ‘repatriated’ (renditioned) from Uk; trafficked, etc etc
They have form on this unfortunately.
To be honest, I can’t see how parents have a “Right to privacy” at all. At least any right that could possibly measure up against the right to information, for the offspring.
Perhaps that’s just a personal view that won’t make sense to anyone else. The State is continuing to insert itself, where it has no business being.
Exactly K Cavan. The state has an aversion to change – the AG gives advice which the Minister / Government row behind even when it makes no sense or will lead to Judicial Reviews which the Minister himself last night acknowledged in Dail remarks. Just who does that serve?
Maybe this is a case that the state can possibly be sued for all those children who fell foul of being born in an intolerant nation
Many sold by the Catholic Church many mothers terrorised into handing over their children then living a lie terrified of the knock on the door
I just cannot wait until we start looking at the victims of the family courts where fathers were effectively stopped from any chance of being a father to their children because it made it easier for the mother to start a new relationship
A couple of friends in the 1980s told me horror stories about the family courts and quite a few men committed suicide over when their relationship failed they were blocked from any contact with their kids
You’d wonder if the files contain more secret stuff than we realise. We know some kids became guinea-pigs for vaccines – could it be that this practice was more widespread than we realise, and unwilling children might be in line for compensation of some sort?
Haven’t these people suffered enough?
Can we advocate for legal disclosure of all secret organisations Ministers belong or have belonged to please with severe penalties if not disclosed, many of us have concerns about O’Gorman.
Very many of us have those concerns, Tumbelina.
Are you suggesting O’Gorman could be a Knight of some sort?
It’s not a description I would use lightly, but the man comes across as being something of an evil sociopath. There are no possible justifications for his insincere arguments, and he knows that. But given that the rage mob by and large have the attention span of a goldfish. This will all be forgotten about by next week and the legislation will get rammed through.
sickening
O’Gorman. Another faux Green. Did and said whatever he could to get in power, then gladly allowed himself be nothing more than a vessel for FF/FG to perpetuate their way of Governance.
What is the endgame here? Why is it made so insanely difficult for people to get their rights as human beings? Possibly life saving medical information? Where is the rationale? Who profits from this?
what Breeda says above about damning things in peoples medical files is one potential. Same with the Catholic Church redress scheme and the clerical abuse, wait until those involved are dead, simpler for the current government to walk away from it.
the most obvious answer is – from day one these are children and parents of lesser value,
that is the bottom line, borne out by the nonsense approach highlighted above.
Rodderic, it is not a good idea to try and preempt what adpotees might or might not want to know of their past.
It is not for you to distill what they need to know, it IS for you to ensure they are properly treated and given access to all records held.
Just in case it needs to be explained to you – this is not what you are doing
If shame is something you feel – that should be the nasty feeling in the pit of your stomach.
Nothing really changes,property and wealth will always be protected.