Are The Irish Anti-Semitic?

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John Gallen writes:

I thought this may be of interest considering all the coverage of the fighting in Israel / Palestine over the past couple of weeks.

It is often said that Ireland or the Irish are anti-semitic. Something I have never believed. And now we have some proper research from the Stephen Roth Institute for the Study of Contemporary Antisemitism and Racism, Tel-Aviv University Their data has been put into a choropleth map by a Evangelos Kapros of TCD. More on him here 

Anyway, according to this map there has been 1 incident in Ireland per 2.4m individuals between 2001 and 2010.

The UK – 1 incident per 51,000
The USA – 1 incident per 75,000

So, the likelihood of an antisemitic incident is 32 times more likely in the USA than Ireland and 47 times more likely in the UK.

I think that should put an end to any nonsense of this island being called antisemitic for good. The next time someone speaks out for Palestine, it is more likely a show of solidarity for an oppressed people than any type of antisemitism.

218 thoughts on “Are The Irish Anti-Semitic?

  1. Makanga Mulunga

    Maybe it’s because there are f**k-all Jews in Ireland thus making ‘anti-Semitic incidents’ pretty hard to come by

    1. Liam

      As Joyce wrote in Ulysses:
      — I just wanted to say, he said. Ireland, they say, has the honour of being the only country which never persecuted the jews. Do you know that? No. And do you know why?
      He frowned sternly on the bright air.
      — Why, sir? Stephen asked, beginning to smile.
      — Because she never let them in, Mr Deasy said solemnly.
      A coughball of laughter leaped from his throat dragging after it a rattling chain of phlegm. He turned back quickly, coughing, laughing, his lifted arms waving to the air.
      — She never let them in, he cried again through his laughter as he stamped on gaitered feet over the gravel of the path. That’s why.

      1. Eliot Rosewater

        Interesting quote, but wrong on nearly every point it’s raising. Now, I realise the point of Ulysses wasn’t to be accurate concerning historical events, but why did you post that quote? The ‘Irish’ did let in the Jews and there was persecution against them.

        1. Lan

          What the hell was the point of Ulysses? Apart from pretentious over-entitled people to quote from, any book which describe in weirdly roundabout but far too much detail the movements of a man’s bowel I avoid

          1. jus thinkin

            Joyce wrote it just to annoy people like you
            obviously

            he foresaw the internet and knew you and your fellows be around

            its a f***ing book – the writer wrote it cause it was in them to be written

    2. Beagle

      This study does not accurately portray irish peoples attitudes, it just measures if they have actually been involved in an antisemitic incident. I think its dangerous to bandy these kind of statistics around and use them as proof that there is no problem. there is. Im an Irish born Jew and I have experienced it. More casual racism than actual violence but its definitely there. People usually dont even think they are being anti semitic and think its really funny. Mainly born out of ignorance i guess.
      By the way, Eliot, in that passage I think Joyce was referring to the fact that Limerick City had a pogrom during the early twentieth century. Pretty extreme stuff.

      1. Planetary Visitor

        What is interesting to see is the attitude towards the Nuremberg trials. Here is a discussion by persons supposed in history. http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=5579
        Note that the specific destruction of the Jews is never once mentioned, notwithstanding that that was a major feature of the trials. There is by contrast abundant interest in the intelligence quotients of the accused. The difficulty with being officious as respects Isreal/Palestine when one has no intention of helping persons who would be disadvantaged by suggested changes (one assumes Ireland has no real interest in accepting displaced Israelis), is that one must then look at the response to rather important historical events with relationship to the matter at hand. Why no comments on the destruction of Jews when commenting on the Nuremburg trials? Sort of reminiscent of Kruschev’s refusal to characterize Babi Yar as being oriented to the death of Jews or the current complaints that concentration on Jews being executed is overdone (even when the Roma are almost always mentioned these days in tandem).

      2. Planetary Visitor

        By the way, this has become quite interesting. I did not know about Cardinal Brown & was quite shocked. Several items about me. First, I am, as you might have gathered, Jewish. Second, I do not at all think badly of the Catholic Church. Nostre Aetate is magnificent. I have personally benefitted from the many good contacts with priests & nuns that I have had & think them wonderful. This stuff about child abuse always bothered me because 1) its the same with all clergy (there are bad people everywhere) 2) I have known the rates of pederasty are no different for some time & 3) I have a sneaking suspicion the furor is largely generated by SSPX or one of its fellow travelers (note they seem to lack child abuse charges). I also very much like Irish culture &, especially, Guiness Stout. In terms of Israel, it sure would have been nice to not have it, but the world simply hated Jews too much. This was AFTER the news of the gas chambers was revealed! Thus, until matters change, & even with Nostre Aetate they have not changed enough yet, there will be a need for Israel. My fellow Americans refuse to say YES to immigration for that 7-8 million other Jews even though 92% of us say YES to making illegal immigrants citizens if they are not criminals (I’m part of the 92%). Only about 5% of the more than 200 I have asked have said yes to the question “If Israel goes, those Jews will need a place to become citizens. Would you say yes to letting them all come here?” By heavens, why should uneducated Mexicans have a right that seems great to me, persons without any persecution mind you, & Jews lack any such rights? In any case, if you wish, I’ll pursue this question with you, looking at old Irish newspapers. But only if you want to do this. It would cost me a bit, but it’s worth it.

      1. collie147

        I wouldnt pay any attention to this plagarist – he’s a gobshite of the highest order and looks like a vampiric Arnold Rothstein (Michael Stuhlbarg http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1027320064/nm0836121).
        I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I dont see why people draw this insane conclusion that criticism of Israel as a state is related in any way to antisemitism – they are NOT one and the same. Sure you can be antisemitic and criticise Israel as it is it’s states religion, but you can criticise the state without being critical of the Jewish religion.

        I criticise Ireland everyday, it doesnt mean I’m anti-catholic.

        1. Voodoo Criminology

          “I dont see why people draw this insane conclusion that criticism of Israel as a state is related in any way to antisemitism”

          Unfortunately, I can see exactly why they do it: to deflect warranted criticisms of Israel’s policies and military actions.

          1. Planetary Visitor

            Actually, the evidence for Jew hatred is increasing for me, not decreasing, as the evidence accumulates. Certainly, those discussants of the Nuremburg trials want all the Jews dead! Moreover, Cardinal Browne, being a friend of Cardinal Lefebvre, also wanted all the Jews killed. There were very good Catholic Prelates, including Pius XII, but Cardinal Browne would definitely be down there with Father Tiso. Also, if it took until 1991 to put a plaque up for the danged folks who went to a concentration camp rather than serve Adolf, you know there was a ton of Jew hatred. Let’s find out some more together. It will be a most interesting ride &, who knows, perhaps we’ll discover that since the death of Cardinal Browne, Ireland started to not hate Jews so much.

        2. Examples

          1. Because frequently, the forms the criticism takes are like newer updates of medieval anti-Semitic caricatures. Like every time that there’s a drawing of an evil Israeli Jew with a knife over a Palestinian baby – even non-Jews, I’m sure, can realize that it draws parallels to the medieval blood libel.

          2. Often enough, the “critics” en masse do not show the same zeal when it comes to abuses of Arab or Muslim neighbors of Israel. (Example: an acquaintance of mine is a local city council politician in Sweden. I see his Facebook feed all the time. Lybian govt was killing its people. It got no reaction from him whatsoever. Syrian govt has now been killing its citizens for a long time. No reaction from him whatsoever. And yet within the same time frame, there’s been at least one post from him each month about Palestinians and Israel. When confronted about this selective approach, he doesn’t see a problem either. I’m not saying that this is the majority of the movement, but it’s a large part of it – selective condemnation.)

      2. Planetary Visitor

        There are other issues to, if one is going to investigate matters. The Emancipation Proclamation (that’s in common American Terminology the document that freed the slaves in the South penned by Abraham Lincoln) for Jews is Nostre Aetate, a monumental advance in civil rights. Unfortunately, Cardinal Michael Browne of Ireland was a close friend of the Catholic Nazi Archbishop Lefebvre. Cardinal Browne opposed Vatican II, very likely especially Nostre Aetate. Can you show me the massive condemnation for that rather nasty set of acts that has been recorded in Ireland since that time? This would help immensely in determining the cause of opposition to the State of Israel, which is at a huge distance from Ireland.

      3. Planetary Visitor

        In a large sense, the anti-Israel attitudes of Ireland, many kilometers distant, without any real interest in the matter must be explored further. After all, why not care about the fate of the various Pygmy peoples, who face extirpation perhaps by being eaten alive. Seriously, there exist people who think they should be eaten & that their flesh improves athletic abilities. No Irish, or few in any case, appear to care about that in the slightest. The reason this peculiar interest in Israel/Palestine matters is because of the question it raises. In Arab lands, there unfortunately exists the desire to put back slavery into practice. There was no compunction about holding meetings in Khartoum, the slave power, for many, many years. This is because, in part, unlike Nigeria, the end of slavery in most of those areas was extrinsic, that is to say put upon them by the British! Now the same is true with the concept of the Synagogue of Satan & the Christ killing Jews. Cardinal Browne fought against abandoning those concepts with Cardinal Lefebvre, the fascist would be Jew killer. Hence, until 1991 it quite understandable that no plaque was put into place for those who decided slavery was better than fighting for Hitler–the opportunity to assist in the elimination of the Synagogue of Satan was lost, Ireland thereby being traduced. Very likely, things have advanced since then, but the notion that such deep Jew hatred can be extirpated without any self-examination or without at least admitting the existence of a genocidal philosophy in the recent past is tenuous at best. Look, we Jews recognized that the Orthodox strictures placed on woman were out of date. Similarly, we Jews recognized our ideas about homosexuality are wrong (mostly we do). Yes, many, including me, also recognize that Sharon was a nasty man, responsible for thousands of needless deaths at the hands of Phalangists, never blamed themselves by others.

    3. Improbable

      Exactly this.

      Also, maybe it’s because we’re the type of cowards to talk about people behind their back and never actually say it to the person’s face or back it up by actions?

      1. Niall

        Or maybe maybe it’s the fact that our history has taught us that bigotry leads to terrible consequences.

        And maybe there’s an incentive for the Israel lobby to insist upon the existence of rampant anti-Semitism, despite an abject lack of evidence, because they want to have recourse to their stock rebuttal of criticism of Israeli military action and policies.

        1. Examples

          Or maybe it’s also the fact that Irish terror organizations used the same tactics as Palestinian terrorists – like blowing up British civilians.

        2. Planetary Visitor

          Why is it that the bigotry that seems obvious to me is not even acknowledged by you? Goodness knows you are not by any means guilty of Cardinal Brownes genocidal stances! Yet by the same token, what Irish voices were heard when Sabeel’s Naim Ateek used Christ Killer? None. No one objected to that miserable notion, notwithstanding its horrific consequences. Instead, just as the IRA person did in comparing his prison to Bergen Belson, the moral equivalence between denial of land of Palestinians & the mass murder of millions of persons was accepted! Don’t you think that indicates at least a minor problem?

      2. Planetary Visitor

        Oh it’s in front of their faces all right. Some Irishmen chose slavery over being part of the German war effort.
        http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/irish-slaves-of-the-nazis-remembered-3312042.html
        The notion that Ireland owes a debt of gratitude to these persons for failing to serve German interests may be questioned, given that the Irish who did fight against Hitler were not treated with especial favor after WWII, or so it is said. Of interest, already in May 1946, one can see the use of Nazi concentration camps for political ends. Here we see an Irish Republican Army member saying he was being sent to an Irish Belson (thus equating his political problems with the policy of extirpating an entire group of people based on their parentage). http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=SywrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fJgFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2884,2195671&dq=concentration+camps+ireland&hl=en

        Now the problem is that if indeed there is this concern with those who are suffering, then why the lack of reward for those who helped in the fight against Nazi Germany? Also, surely the IRA member must have realized his statement was less than appropriate.

    4. Planetary Visitor

      This is becoming quite interesting. I will subscribe to a service that provides archival newspaper articles from that horrific time period if there is no objection. There will be several items to look for in the newspapers. Here’s where to start. The foulest, by far, empires in Christendom were the Spanish & the Portuguese. These repulsive entities colonized the Western Hemisphere, brought slaves there, & establish slave plantations on an industrial scale, in the process slaughtering untold numbers of Native Americans. Not coincidentally, the same empires expelled their Jews in 1492, for Spain, & in 1495, for Portugal. This would have been awful enough had it not been for the persecution of the descendants of Jews in these empires. The Morranos, as it turns out, mostly accepted with vigor their new religion, but the INHERITED impurity of blood led to very interesting consequences that were the precursors of Nazi Germany. The so-called Limpieza statutes, purity of blood, were monstrous means of persecuting those with Jewish ancestors. By the early twentieth century, racist slavery was considered horrific, but scientific racism that led to the Holocaust was completely in vogue. Thus, the opinion of Ireland as respects the Spanish & Portuguese empires becomes critical. If it could be demonstrated that public opinion, as expressed through these newspapers 1925-1942 favored these monstrous entities, that would be strong evidence that Ireland was quite comfortable with the elimination of Jews & their descendants. A point against Lefebvre in this respect is that his argument on the behalf of those bags of pig manure, the fascists Spaniards & Portuguese, as being means of saving Jews, falls apart when one remembers that Spain did not revoke its expulsion of Jews until after Vatican II! One assumes this material is also of interest to others reading this.

  2. ex pat

    I don’t think people are anti-sematic but I do think people have unrealistic expectations of the tolerance of Israel to terrorist attacks sponsored by Iran and Syria.

    The Palestinians if they are serious about peace need to allow UN weapons inspectors to police Gaza to remove weapons that are being used in indiscriminate attacks against Israel.

    The Israeli’s need to open up the border and stop settlements in Palestinian territory, if there is a finite supply of land then Israel must implement a property regime that charges a higher price to people not born in Israel.

    At the end of the day it is a dis-service to both sides to back one side or the other as all have a right to live in peace. Jordan and Egypt have co-existed with Israel for almost 50 years without any problems.

    1. Mickolikesmaps

      So the Israelis should be allowed to possess nuclear weapons (and not sign up to the non-proliferation treaty) yet Palestinians are not allowed possess mickey mouse missiles which are more likely to blow up in their faces that hit the intended target. Palestinian lands are classified as occupied under international humanitarian law which is the law of conflict. Why shouldn’t the Palestinians be allowed to possess missiles to defend themselves against the Israeli war machine?

      1. ex pat

        Israel has never threatened anyone with their nuclaer weapons but Hamas a proscribed terrorist organisation has proved only too willing to use them by simply firing them over the border not giving a damn where they land.

        If you care about the Palestinians then get them to see that until such time as they ditch the Iranian and Syrian terrorist kit then the World will tut tut when Israel misses a target every once in a while and look the other way whilst the sanctions grind the will to live out of the peaceful population.

        Until the Palestinians get clear advice from their friends then nothing will change one bit. Are you and many other supporters not capable of advising them that to get the support of the key players that they must stop terrorist attacks with weapons smuggled in by Iran and Syria?

        Israel has proven that it can co-exist with Islamic neighbours that do not attack it as evidenced by workable bi-laterals with Jordan and Egypt.

          1. ex pat

            Israel has no troops in the Palestinian territories and will doubtless keep as strong a ring of steel around those territories until such time as the governments therein prevent Iranian and Syrian arms from falling into the hands of young militants who are manipulated by cynical elements to launch attacks at their neighbours.

            No government will place the safety of its civilian population at risk of indiscriminate terrorist attacks from a neighbour.

            Israel has proven itself capable of normalised bi-lateral relation with its neighbours in Jordan and Egypt i.e. countries that respect its right to exist.

          1. ex pat

            They have not fired nuclear weapons but given the thousands of conventional weapons they possess and suicide bombers they regularly unleash is too much to suggest that a martyrdom culture is not capable of such futility?

            Terrorism is what condemns the Palestinian Territories to their current fate.

        1. droid

          “Israel has never threatened anyone with their nuclaer weapons”…

          er… yeah. It might be worthwhile doing a little research on that one. You could try, for started, the war games Israel ran a few weeks back which involved a tactical nuclear strike on nuclear facilities in Iran.

          1. ex pat

            Tactical games against a country that regularly declares it wants to wipe you off the face of the earth. Glad to see you take the side of a failed state where dissent amongst their own population is crushed by a militia that has appropriated half the businesses in the country.

          2. droid

            Thats right. Nothing threatening about nuclear war games at all. That whole cold war thing was just a storm in a teacup.

        2. pedeyw

          I can’t help but think that its pretty hard to stamp out terrorism when your infrastructure is being destroyed on a regular basis.

      1. Planetary Visitor

        One way of telling a Jew loving Israel basher from a Jew baiter bashing Isreal is the immigration question. Isreal & Palestine are a minute fragment of the planet’s surface area with a truly minute amount of its violent death. Thus, to be interested in this conflict implies an interest in the welfare of both parties to the conflict. The way to prove that is to answer YES to the following question: If Isreal disappeared tomorrow, would you welcome all the world’s Jews into your country?

        There’s only 13.7 million Jews on the planet, so Ireland could readily accommodate them. One assumes the vast majority of Irish men & women who oppose Israel would say “YES” to that simple question. If so, there’s no problem. If not, they want to set up some gas chambers outside Dublin. The biofuel would likely render the production of Guiness less expensive.

        1. Commonsense

          Now I know you’re writing this from outside Ireland – I would hazard a guess that you are doing so from Israel. Nothing wrong with that, but it would be nice if you put all your cards on the table here before you start the propaganda. The reason I say this is because the total population of Ireland is (according to 2011 figues) 4,487,000 – therefore your assertion that we could “easily accomoade” a further 13.7 million people in your ridiculous scenerio is nonsensical. That said, if we’re going to assume for a second the unlikely idea that Jews have been expelled from Israel in the near future, yes I think all countires in Europe should open their doors in that case.

          Gas chambers? What the hell are you talking about – nobody in Ireland denies the holocaust, nor is anyone anything but horrified by it. It’s in every school textbook in the country. Love how you turn around in the same sentence and throw a racial stereotype at us re: Guiness – grow up.

          You are misusing the horror that was the holocaust to deflect genuine criticism of the policies of a nation state – we see what you are doing Hasbara and it is not working. Nobody here is calling for gas chambers – you simply can’t equate us saying “maybe building 30000 new settlement homes in retaliation for the Palestinians seeking UN recognition isn’t the best way towards peace” with “we want to gas the jews” and expect to maintain credibility

          1. Planetary Visitor

            Lefebvre wanted the Jews dead. He supported the Vichy Regime in France dedicated to just that, notwithstanding that his own father died in a concentration camp! This was actually par for the course–French retrunees from concentration camps rioted against JEWS! Cardinal Browne was a fellow traveler. It’s impossible to avoid those conclusions, as horrific as they sound. Too often we want members of our group to not be monsters, but just as Meyer Lanski was a Jewish, so Michael Browne was a Catholic Cardinal (Father Tiso was quite nasty as well). What is fascinating about this is the Julius Streicher claimed to be a fabulous friend of the Jews, just as Lefebvre did (arguing for fascist Spain!!!!!!!). When you look at the fiends Pope Pius had to work with, his work on behalf of the 800,000 Jews he saved becomes ever more the miraculous.

  3. Mickolikesmaps

    I’m glad to hear there haven’t been many racist incidents involving Jewish people in Ireland. As for the term anti-semitic, I feel it has lost all meaning due to the way the Israelis have hi-jacked it in recent decades to an attempt to legitimise human rights abuses and war crimes committed in the Middle East. The fact that most Arabs are also semitic people further cheapens the term.

    1. ex pat

      If you want to cite war crimes look at Chechnya or Syria. Defending one’s borders against terrorists is not a war crime as there is no war not even a civil war.

      1. Mickolikesmaps

        If you don’t know what war crimes then it’s better not to comment on what you think they are

        1. Mickolikesmaps

          Type war crimes and Israel into google and you’ll find a wealth of information citing international law. Including reports by the UN

          1. ex pat

            Warcrimes are what happened in Bosnia or Grozny or more recently Syria. Israel has cleared threats along its Southern border and previously in Lebanon where Irish peacekeepers have done excellent work.

      2. SOMK

        So when Hamas attack Israel it’s “terrorism” and when Israel attacks Palestine their “defending themselves?” Cute.

        No need to look at Syria and Chechnya, this post is about the cowardly language of supporters of Israel use when they dare equate people who criticise their butchery in Palestine, to the Nazis through using the term “anti-semitism.”

        1. ex pat

          I have not used the expression anti-semitism once; Iran always use the expression Zionist and since Assad put his murder machine on domestic setting are the only ones targeting Israel with their own resources.

          Any state that is defending itself will act on defective intelligence and sometimes act disproportionately. However if the Hamas regime clamped down on foreign arms within their territory then Israel would not engage their far stronger deterrent and would not need to have comprehensive sanctions.

          As long as Hamas persists in allowing hot heads attack Israel the longer they will remain classified as a prescribed terrorist organisation.

          The solution is to uphold the ceasefire.

      1. Planetary Visitor

        Ain’t going to say no more until I get some sort of response. Look you lads and lasses. You were disappointed that the Synagogue of Satan was not gassed in WWII & even more upset when Nostre Aetate was passed. Those of you who accepted the need for that & understand its brutal Jew killing consequences are wonderful, but there’s a lot that still want us Jews killed. President Assad is loading his missiles with Sarin gas. That’s nerve gas. Maybe you’ll get a chance to see millions of Jews gassed to death after all when he drops those things on Israel. What you’d then say “white phosphorus was chemical warfare just as bad.” I’ll stop here with that for now. Please let me know if you really believe no Jew hatred exists in Ireland.

  4. Richard Chapman

    Yes, but… For an antisemitic incident to occur, you kinda need someone Jewish around for it to happen to. So this isn’t a very fair metric.

    I don’t think Irish people are antisemitic in particular. Our tendency to side with the Palestinians is almost entirely about being a lot better able to identify with them. But the country’s overwhelming Catholic ethos is hardly welcoming to Jewish people either.

    1. John Gallen

      True.

      My email was edited a little. This bit at the end was left out
      *shakes fist at Bodger* :)

      ” Other sourced data for calculations:
      CIA World Factbook for country populations and religions of those countries.
      - USA pop 314m / UK / 63m / Ireland 4.7m.
      - Number of Jewish persons per country – USA 1.7% / UK too small not specified / Ireland too small not specified. ”

      So, even though the number of Jewish persons in the UK is so small as not to be recorded statistically it still has the highest incidence of antisemitism in the world. Mad that!

      1. ex pat

        Half of those reports I suspect will be in North London where the true cause is football related to Tottenham and have little or nothing to do with religion just bozos abusing with concepts they don’t understand.

          1. ex pat

            Nothing ridiculous in linking reports of racism and english football; very common for drunk people watching football to post things on social media they later regret. The Jewish populations in the UK are largely centred on North London and Manchester, neither has a known racism problem. If anything North London may have one of the most diverse mixes anywhere in the World.

        1. pedeyw

          Does the cause of, or reasoning behind the racism really matter that much? racism is racism. I find it more worrying that people could be that casual about it.

  5. anvil

    Anti-semitic ? Who knows, as there aren’t many Jews where I live.
    But there are a lot of East Europeans and the ones I know are subjected to racist abuse on at least a weekly basis.
    The Irish treat the East Europeans exactly how the Irish used to be treated.

    1. John Gallen

      My personal experience of Eastern Europeans has been all good. Maybe I’m lucky in that and I’ve not heard anyone give them any racial grief either (Romano gypsies aside).

        1. Frodo Baggins

          Krakow is an absolutely super place to visit. Easily the most charming city I’ve ever been to.
          I could live there in a heartbeat.

    2. Oldmanfitz

      I can honestly say i have never had any reason not like eastern europeans! i have met many through the years and i love dealing with them.

      1. Commonsense

        I find their sense of humour is very like ours at times – black as soot and very cutting. I must say, I’ve only had good experiences working with Eastern Europeans – a lot of them have integrated really well here.

  6. VinLieger

    Saying “f**k israel” is not anti semitic, i disagree with their policies and objecytives but i couldnt give a f**k about their religion, however they like to throw the term around anytime anyone disagrees with what israel does.
    I hate to invoke the holocaust but does anyone else get the feeling they just like to use it as a guilt crutch?

    1. ex pat

      The Iranians are attempting exactly what was tried in the final solution only this time wiping a country and not a religious group off the face of the earth. Given that most weapons used against Israel are sponsored by Iran the link is tenuous but there.

      Allowing Israel to exist in peace would doubtless transform the middle east.

      1. thatsnotamareseedeasebends

        Jeez ex pat,
        Given that the majority of weapons and All grenades confiscated from alleged “rebels” used against Syrian forces are made in Isreal, the link is tenuous but there.
        Allowing the Middle-East to exist in peace without western empirical governments sponsoring dictators who keep newly developing democracy under the jackboot using the excuse of “energy security” would transform peace in the region…

      2. Iwerzon

        Hate to cross-post but a friend put it simply as the Israeli psychos in power can never allow Gaza or the West Bank to become ‘normalized’, with no “terrorism”, because after a certain period of such normalization the real issue of stolen land and refugees would come front and center, at which point Israel would have to explain to the world why it will not play fair and address the outstanding grievances.

        At that point, the Israelis would look like the aggressors and occupiers that they are and have always been, and the Palestinians will appear to the world as the victims they are and have always been.

      3. Commonsense

        OK, I’m now convinced you’re Hasbara.

        Not that I’m condoning Hamas for a second, but do you think it’s appropriate that the interior minister of Israel was quoted as saying he wanted to bomb Gaza “back to the middle ages” during this campaign. Didn’t Sharon’s son say something about a “decisive conclusion” (that phrase sounds very similar to a different phrase I have heard before, doesn’t it?).

        This is the language of genocide. Also, what exactly do you think happens to Hamas recruitment lines when people get their homes and infrastructure destroyed or their families killed? Do they get longer or shorter you think? If you where a Palestinian, and your family died in one of these incursions, what would you do?

  7. JaimieH

    John manages to make a valid point (criticising Israel does not necessary make you anti-Semitic) while using faulty suppositions (Ireland is less anti-Semitic than the UK or USA based on incidents per size of population).
    It is entirely possible (but not necessarily the case) that the small size of the Jewish population (less than 2000 according to the last census) is a better reason for the small number of anti-Semitic incidents in the state. It is hard to be anti-Semitic if you cannot find a Semite to be anti.

    1. John Gallen

      I know what you mean. But, look at the UK where there are not enough Jewish persons there to warrant a quoted percentage of population yet it records the highest number of incidences per head of pop world wide.

      Let’s just say, I’ve never thought the Irish to be antisemitic but I’ve heard it said while out and on here many times by some (Judy NYC being one) and it drives me nuts to hear it.

      This is just one tool in the argument I’ll be using to say that we are not like that. That’s why I sent it in :)

      1. Sido

        “I know what you mean. But, look at the UK where there are not enough Jewish persons there to warrant a quoted percentage of population yet it records the highest number of incidences per head of pop world wide.”
        - Bollocks there was loads of Jewish people in the UK when I used to live there.
        Who do you suppose records the anti semitic incidences?
        This whole work looks more and more like a piece of self serving Israeli crap the more you look at it.

        1. John Gallen

          The country population and religious population stats I got are from the CIA World Factbook. Not the Tel Aviv Uni figures.

          I do see your point all the same Sido :)

          1. Sido

            Ha – I think the CIA fact book Is the one that says we are one of the safest places in the wurld to have a baby…
            Apparently our reporting does not comply with the “European Standard”

  8. tweeglitch

    meaningless graphic. Is the colouring of each country weighted by it’s Jewish population? And incidents of racial abuse are more likely to be recorded (or even reported in the first place) in some countries than others.

  9. Sido

    Nowadays Israel has tried to modify the term Antisemitic to mean anyone who is critical of their terrorism, slaughter and genocide.
    Presumably in a cheap attempt raise the sickening memory of the Solution to the Jewish problem prescribed by The Third Reich

    The old definition was put simply – someone who disliked Jewish people.

    Given the divergence of definition it would be difficult to see why any statistics on the subject would or should be believed.

    Also the fact that these definitions are from Tel Aviv University are kinda suspect.
    As in we say The Great Famine was genocide by the British Empire. Whereas the Brits would maintain (apart from Tony Blair) the famine was caused by a fungus that affects potatoes.

    I would add that by current Israeli definitions I am anti semitic and it doesn’t bother me.

      1. Sido

        I would define terrorism as the random maiming/slaughter of a particular group/set of individuals in order achieve military objectives (usually at bargain basement prices) through fear.

          1. Sido

            See my reply below – And feel free to have a go.
            John has been far to polite and accommodating of you stupid views I see..

  10. Ahjayzis

    I think it’s fairly easy to see why Irish people given their history would have a greater empathy with the underdog in a conflict like this, anti-semitism doesn’t come into it.

    Although saying that, don’t those countries have far, far more Jewish people living in them and thus naturally would have a greater opportunity for racist incidents? I mean I don’t even think I know any Israeli/Jewish-Irish people.

    And hating on Israel doesn’t make one anti-jewish/israeli in the same way criticising Saudi Arabia doesn’t make one anti-muslim/arab.

  11. 3rd child

    Just as the people of Ireland boycotted south African goods to protest against apartheid, so also do we protest against Israels apartheid with the Palestinians. Evil happens when good people do or say nothing, far too many people have been silent while Israel set up a Ghetto and set about dehumanising an unwanted part of their population. Alas they have learned their lessons from Hitler far too well.

    1. ex pat

      I’m amazed at the absolute absence of condemnation of the rocket attacks and suicide bombings on Israeli civilians.

      1. Sido

        A)I suppose when your enemy are armed to the teeth with high tech American weaponry, there is a tendency to see it as being a puny response to unreasonable provocation.

        B) (i)Through there use of American media the Isreali’s seek to control the News story so any story from the region is to be treated as suspect and biased.

        B(ii) e.g. Note that the popular cop show NCIS show that the US Federal Authorities and Israel/Mossad work together to combat the threat of “terrorism”
        C) I take it you are an American or based there? I also understand that America is a sponsor of Israel and their aggression.

        1. ex pat

          Where I have a problem with the pro-Palestinian argument is that there is no concession to a point where if Israel calls off their defences that the Palestinians that they will stop attacking Israel like the Lebanese have done in recent years and like the Jordanians and Egyptians have done for decades..

          I don’t like seeing people in Gaza suffering the consequences of the tightest of sanctions regimes but anyone who thinks any state will relax sanctions when rockets are flying over their borders is not thinking straight. Hamas are implementing an Iranian agenda of attempting to wipe Israel off the face of the earth; just like Gaddafi used the provos in the 1980′s to get at the UK.

          I’m surprised you hold the view you do on this issue as I seldom disagree with you.

          1. Sido

            I suppose you could make a start towards peace by stopping treating the Palestinians like pieces of shit to be bulldozed off their land at gunpoint so that you can use it to establish another Israeli settlement.

            Though I would agree with your assertion it is a tricky one.

          2. Sido

            In reply to your second point – no I’m not to keen on a lot of aspects of the Muslim religion either.
            However one has to ask to what degree has Israel and its sponsor America aggravated the situation in the Middle East and helped polarize opinion in their Arabian neighbors?

          3. ex pat

            Thats a very disappointing answer, as you well know the bulldozers never come out without a sustained period of unprovoked rocket attacks on Israeli civilian targets; which must be foreign sponsored as Gaza has no money or ability to import these types of arms legitimately.

            If the Palestinians want to discuss settlements they will need to display they have the capacity to act peacefully towards their neighbours.

            I feel sorry for anyone living in a country where attacking ones neighbour is more important than lifting sanctions.

          4. John Gallen

            @ExPat
            You say “there is no concession to a point where if Israel calls off their defences that the Palestinians that they will stop attacking”

            That’s a bit like asking someone to stop throwing stones at the tank that just crashed into their sitting room.

          5. ex pat

            On your second point; thankfully it is Obama and not Romney who won the US election. US governments under Clinton and hopefully Obama have gone to the Middle East with the objective of peace and little else. When surrounded by hostile states Israel would not have survived without US hardware but with only Palestine and Syria left to resolve.

          6. Sido

            “as you well know the bulldozers never come out without a sustained period of unprovoked rocket attacks”
            No I don’t know that
            What I know is that I cannot trust a word the Israeli’s say.
            They are master propagandists.
            Sadly you seem to be deceived by their lies.
            You need to look at them through my eyes. Only for an hour.

          7. ex pat

            John – there are no tanks in the occupied territories. The only solution involves the continuation of a credible ceasefire followed by talks assisted by the EU & US that deal with the grievances of both sides and aid for Palestine to rebuild as Lebanon did in the 1990′s.

          8. John Gallen

            @Ex Pat…. I’ll say this one last time. They are NOT neighbours. There’s the occupied and the occupier.

            As for your point about the people in Gaza not being able to afford weapons so they must be supported by Iran,,,

            Well, the same relationship goes on between the USA and Israel to the tune of $6 Billion pa!!

          9. ex pat

            Sido – The only thing I want to see is the continuation of a ceasefire translating into a credible peace deal followed by aid so that the conditions for resistance / terror are undermined.

            There is too much focus on everywhere since the advent of the smartphone to cover incidents up.

          10. ex pat

            John, as you well know Hamas are the elected government of Gaza; their ability to govern is only compromised because their are sanction as a result of attacks on Israel. Any strikes undertaken in recent weeks were undertaken from within Israel or from the air.

            If you assert that Israel is not a legitimate state I can only infer that you also assert that all people of European, African and Asian descent should be repatriated from America North and South.

      1. ex pat

        It won’t happen; Iran would be another Afghanistan but watch an equally despicable regime in Syria on the way out; Iran will encounter a similar fate.

        The future will be very different and it is only a matter of time before the Palestinians realise that their future involves a ceasefire, a peace deal and an aid package similar to the one that rebuilt Lebanon in the 1990′s. Perhaps it will take the Palestinians time to realise that allowing their territories to be used for attacks on a neighbouring state is the only reason they can’t import cement.

        1. Sido

          I not heard about the Israeli cement joke – those guys are a laugh a minute if you are not on the bad end of one of their bulldozers

          1. ex pat

            The point is that items that are ordinarily classified as civilian materials also have a military context; i.e. reinforced concrete if used in a great enough quantity nullifies air strikes for arms dumps; the fact that it can also be used to build hospitals and schools is the type of cruel coincidence the current willingness to allow from Gaza has produced. Reality in Gaza isn’t funny when governments like Hamas allow the territory to be used to attack their neighbours.

        2. droid

          The Palestinians have accepted the international consensus and the two state solution, implicitly since 1978, and explicitly since 1989.This means that they have accepted the fact that 68% of their state is gone. They are negotiating for the remaining 22%.

          Israel has no interest in peace, as peace would mean a stabilisation of the ‘facts on the ground’, no more land grabbing, and presumably a gradual loss of their status as ‘local policeman’ in the middle east. This is why israeli policy, (as demonstrated time and again) is about avoiding negotiation and constantly attacking and coercing the Palestinian population. Oslo was the closest they ever came to a serious settlement, and that was a joke.

    1. Sido

      “If you assert that Israel is not a legitimate state I can only infer that you also assert that all people” – I didn’t assert that Pat. Stop talking shite.

      1. ex pat

        A state created in 1948 has the right to exist; there are many that assert it doesn’t, a similar negative logic if applied to the Americas…..

          1. John Gallen

            I’m sure you are well aware of the size of Israel at the time of the creation of the state in 1948.

            If it had remained as such instead of stealing all the Palestinian lands since then, things would be a lot better today. But Israel the aggressor hasn’t stopped expanding since it’s creation but you Ex Pat seem to think that that is perfectly acceptable. Ya loon.

            Here Ex Pat… it’s a game of spot the difference.

            1948 map versus 2000

            http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg

          2. ex pat

            John – The greatest change comes from the 1967 invasion. I do not support settlements beyond the 1967 borders; I favour Israel imposing a property system similar to that of Guernsey where people born in Israel buy at one price and people retiring there pay another higher price. In peace negotiations last time settlements were a major issue; I expect they will be again if a lasting peace produces talks.

        1. droid

          A state founded on the ethnic cleansing on hundreds of thousand of the natives.

          Of course, there’s also the fact that the declaration of the state of Israel was only possible after a prolonged terrorist campaign by Jewish extremists.

          Im not saying Israel doesn’t have a ‘right’ to exist (whatever that means), but by your standards, if Hamas waged a terrorist war and then drove most of the Jewish population out of Israel, its new state would be ‘legitimate’.

        1. ex pat

          You keep making reference to the occupier and the occupied. Given that all Israeli military are within its borders would you care to elaborate on the context of these words.

          1. John Gallen

            LOOK at the bloody f**king map ya gombeen muppet!

            It’s two comments up^

            If that’s not ‘occupied’ I’ll have diesel on my cereal in the morning quickly followed by a cigarette lit with a very big match :)

          2. droid

            Alan Deshorwitz lite here.

            Tell us, what are Israel’s ‘border’s exactly? They’ve never declared them as that would prevent further expansion.

            Also, try looking up the status of Gaza. Its still classed as occupied by pretty much everyone bar the US and Israel, as Israel controls the land sea and air.

        2. Sido

          Ah Pat so long as you guys are paying for the Israeli bombs and bombers – we understand that you back the Israelis.

          Just don’t expect us to have the same enthusiasm for your murdering Middle East regime OK

          1. ex pat

            Peace is achievable if the Palestinians concentrate on what is within their borders and no doubt settlements will form a core part of any binding deal. Taba was once part of Israel but is now part of Egypt.

    1. ex pat

      No – a contrarian who is self employed, living abroad and has lived or worked with people from the locality from the three main religious groups in the region but in a European context.

      In 1967 no-one could have predicted peace between Israel and Jordan/Egypt but it happened.

        1. ex pat

          A troll is someone who deliberately causes arguments; I have outlined a point of view; the accusation of trolling is nonsense.

        1. ex pat

          There is a level of erosion of the West Bank; as I have stated before I do not support settlements but firing rockets from Gaza is not justified regardless of settlements in the West Bank.

          The reason the Palestinians struggle to make their case in most western countries is because the Israeli’s are so effective in playing the terrorist activities of Hamas as the only aspect of the region.

          In the US 9/11, in the UK the IRA and 7/7 in France the Corsicans, in Spain the Basques in Italy the Cosa Nostra attacks on the judiciary.

          The Palestinians need to learn to move on……

  12. Prada Meinhof

    “It is often said that Ireland or the Irish are anti-semitic.”

    By whom?

    Given the map has no data available or no incidents recorded for some of the most notorious anti-semitic states in the Middle East the claims made here are simply incredulous.

    And if you read into the data on the source website it is clear there has been more than one incident over the time period involved.

    John Gallen – you need to operationalise this term “anti-semitic”. From a pure sniff-test POV to claim there has been “one” incident over the specified period seems ludicrous. What was that incident exactly?

    If you define anti-semitic to include anti-Israeli or anti-Israel foreign policy, then there clearly have been a significant number of anti-semitic incidents over the recent years.

    Boycotts calls by academics, attempts to isolate Israel in everthing from the Eurovision to traditional music tours by Irish artists, and letters in the Irish Times from one well-know buffoon alone will get your figures soaring.

    And then, of course, as highlighted in the media recently, where there have been personal incidences of anti-semitism and they’ve been reported, the Irish authorities allegedly did nothing.

    Frankly, from a HCI point of view, this *might* be a great visualization experiement. However, it’s not. It’s uninteresting and dull – try these http://d3js.org/).

    From a data reliability and validitity point of view, the exercise is not worth a damn. He might as well have plugged in the data from racist incidents on the terraces of football stadiums worldwide as a source of colouredy pixels.

    Amateur hour.

    1. Eliot Rosewater

      Anti-Israeli does not equal anti-semitic (amateur hour, indeed).

      Also, if you could post links to the anti-semitic incidents specifically listed in the media, that would be of great help.

      1. Prada Meinhof

        I did not say it did. However, if you accept that Israel is a Jewish state for Jewish people –as most Israelis do– and as is codifed in the Basic Laws of Israel, then being anti-Israel can be reasonably taken as being anti-Jewish (semitic of course can refer to Arabic provenance too) in the eyes of Israelis.

      2. Prada Meinhof

        “Also, if you could post links to the anti-semitic incidents specifically listed in the media, that would be of great help.”

        Go look them up as I did. You’re not sitting in first year sociology in TCD being fed PowerPoint slides by your lecturered now.

      3. IrelandGuy

        Pravda, doesn’t the Torah forbid a Jewish state hence invalidating Israels claim to them having a state based on religious grounds?

          1. Thomas

            Cool, a YouTube clip of some guy is far preferable to a sourced reference in the Torah itself.

            [eye roll]

          2. IrelandGuy

            Thomas, why should I provide a source?

            I was asking a question and I posted the video indicating where I got the impression the Torah forbids Jews a homeland.

            Should I have insisted this was the case then I would have posted a source.

            [eye roll]

    2. John Gallen

      “If you define anti-semitic to include anti-Israeli or anti-Israel foreign policy, then there clearly have been a significant number of anti-semitic incidents over the recent years.”

      You’ve missed the whole point. Anti-semitic is NOT the same as anti-Israel. There are plenty of Jewish people who despise the actions of Israel and go so far as to call the actions of Israel as Nazi-like.

      “Israel was born out of Jewish Terrorism” Tzipi Livnis father was a terrorist” – House of Parliament, Sir Gerald Kaufman, UK MP says. He is a Jew. He compares the actions of Israeli troops in Gaza to the Nazis who forced his family to flee Poland. (Video below)

      1. Prada Meinhof

        I think you’ve missed the whole point of this exercise or experiment. The research methodology is dismal, the validity and reliability of the data not worthy of a undergraduate project yet alone 9th level. The HCI aspect is hardly going to make it to CHI 2013.

        Furthermore, it is clear that you are interpreting the data that is provided for your own ends. Others would chose not to and be able to back up their position. Furthermore, you’ve hardly coming to the table with clean hands given your previous pro-Palestianian postings so your claims about what this very lame exercise demonstrates just don’t stand up to scrutiny.

  13. ex pat

    @ John Gallen “|LOOK at the bloody f**king map ya gombeen muppet!

    It’s two comments up^

    If that’s not ‘occupied’ I’ll have diesel on my cereal in the morning quickly followed by a cigarette lit with a very big match :)”

    Significantly eroded but in areas that are under Palestinian control there is no an Israeli military presence except when physical conflict breaks out between settlers and Palestinian residents. When Hamas stop firing rockets into Southern Israel then the peace talks that will result will pick up expanded settlements as a core Palestinian grievance that has to be dealt with.

    In Ireland I would have expected a discourse that was predicated on disarming the lunatics before the terms of peace could be hammered out with external assistance.

    1. ex pat

      For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not saying that the lunatics represent anymore than a small proportion of impressionable youth that thanks to foreign states such as Iran and Syria are armed within the Palestinian Territories and intent on attacking Israel.

    2. John Gallen

      They remain within borders because they keep expanding. That is, occupying Palestinian land.

      You win a prize for understatement of the year with “Significantly eroded”.

      1. shitferbrains

        What did withdrawing from Gaza do for anyone, either Palestinian or Israeli ? And don’t even bother blubbing about ” the siege ” because between 2005 and 2007 there was no blocade but the Iranians used that time to build up Hamas, whereupon the Egyptians and the Israelis agreed on the blocade. The Palestinians need freed from islamist whackos.

    3. Bobby

      These are the Palestinian papers, in there you will see how the so-called Palestinian leadership offered up everything, including Jerusalem and even the right of expelled Palestinians to return to their land.

      Israel is the problem, there is nothing else to discuss. It’s not up to Hamas (or others) to stop firing, it is up to Israel to pull out their settlers, to remove their checkpoints, to stop building walls, to stop demolishing houses, to stop sniping protesters, to stop torturing children in Israeli ‘Palestinian children’s prisons’ ETC ETC ETC, I could go on all day.

      Here are the papers for those who are interested in reality – http://www.aljazeera.com/palestinepapers/

      And here is a little fact-sheet about house demolitions and misplacement in Gaza. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2012/08/2012830754014332.html

      Since 1976, the Israeli government has destroyed over 25,000 Palestinian homes in Gaza and the West-Bank. In this time, Israeli policies have internally displaced at least 160,000 Palestinians.

      Yet, this conflict is blamed in Hamas (did you know that Israel was opposed to popular secular groups in Palestine, so they actually helped and supported Hamas to crush the popular resistance! Weird world.)

      But no one should forget that as terrible as the Palestinian situation is, they drive this conflict forward and refuse to do something, peace something terrorist.. or something.. this about sums up what I hear from most people.

      FREE PALESTINE!

  14. shitferbrains

    Irish people are quick to say that being anti-unionist isn’t being anti-protestant , but they don’t ask the protestants if that’s how they feel about the statement. And the same thing applies to the anti-Israel position. How do the majority of Jews both inside and outside Israel feel about it? It’s pure arrogance to make statements about others.

        1. John Gallen

          Save that for another day :) I don’t know enough of him to do that. He has many valid points to make on the problem but he also has his own agenda, me thinks.

  15. Alan Dunne

    This argument is flawed because anti-semitism is often wrongly defined as meaning anti-Jewish. The fact is Semites include all peoples who derive from semite-speaking languages. That includes both Arabic and Hebrew. So Palestinians and Israelis are both Semites! If you’re anti-semite you hate them both.

        1. shitferbrains

          So you’re saying that anti-semitism wasn’t a term coined by a German anti-semite ? That seems to be the point of your devastating rebuttal.

  16. Tickle

    Judging by the amount of avatars in this section one is justified in saying that broadsheet is Anti-tickle and therefore anti nordie.

    Not to worry I am going to build a bridge and “get over” it.

    :(

  17. Colm

    I seem to remember a joke in Ulysses along the lines of: “Ireland is the only country never to persecute the Jews”. ” Yes, because we never let them in!”.

      1. shitferbrains

        Have you ever been bombed, John ? Seriously. Hasn’t it ever crossed your mind that people who are constantly bombed by terrorists/freedom fighters don’t go around saying ” oh yes, I deserved that ” ? Did the Troubles not alert you to attitudes like those ?

          1. shitferbrains

            An essay on moral relativism:

            QUOTE: It is because for a wide swathe of left-liberal and ‘anti-imperialist’ opinion there is now no way Israel can conduct itself from which it will earn moral credit. It is irredeemably tainted in its origin. Conversely, and in the same quarter, there is nothing that Hamas or other representatives of the Palestinian people can do, no wrong or outrage they can commit, which will not be morally ‘cleaned up’ by the perception that these representatives are supposedly the pure vehicle of a struggle against injustice. UNQUOTE..

            http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2012/11/timetables-personal-and-historical.html

          2. Sido

            So shitforbrains – this is the new Israeli twist to their outdated propaganda. Hey we might not be Anti semitic so but we are part of the “wide swathe of left-liberal and ‘anti-imperialist’ opinion”
            Expat asked me to define terrorism and then accused “The Palestinians” of being perpetrators – A refuge sought by the Isreali government.
            At the end of the day Its a question of scale
            For the Israelis – The Predator Drone with its Hellfire Missiles,
            The Apache Gunship, The F15 Bomber.
            The best reaction that the Palestinians have to this aggression so far is the suicide bomber.
            Scale – that’s the important consideration.

          3. Prada Meinhof

            And that’s the *best* reaction? An implicit appeal to scale up the violence?

            Sure, who could NOT be moved by stories from the BBC such as this:

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20466027

            Gaza baby ‘only knew how to smile’

            It should not be something anyone needs to read, and you do need to read it. We can empathize and sympathize without supporting Hamas or Palestinian actions. That does not mean I have to express any “solidarity” with an “oppressed people” who on occassions, in a general sense, have been shown up as their own worst enemy in who they elect, follow, or support, or how they behave.

            The question remains how to stop this. Putting aside the dangers of treating both sides as homogeneous, it’s clear that generally they both have a case to answer here. As long as Israeli and Palestinian actions are governed by the politics of the last atrocity then there really is no hope in moving this situation in the direction of peace.

            Irish support, in the main, for the sides in the issue has been partial, clearly. Starting out on an argument from a premise that Israel is “wrong” is as bankrupt intellectually as starting out with a sweeping claim that the Irish are often thought to be anti-semitic but are really expressing support for the down-trodden.

            Irish media reporting–be they insights from both the MNC or the likes of the partisan group activist letters from the region published here–is equally unhelpful in understanding the complexity and emotion on both sides. And, it has to be said, the vitriol often heaped on anyone who supports Israeli actions or tries to contextualize them betrays a position that is massively disingenuous and hypocritical too. For example, here in all this commentary is the word “Obama”? After all the Broadsheet shilling for the great man recently, the C-I-C, the top dog kingmaker in the region, it’s somehow no longer an issue of U.S. Foreign Policy, huh? Just a matter for some vague entity called “America” to not invade/attack Iran? Clearly, too close to the bone for the Irish BS crowd to contemplate what they have really supported in all their huffing and puffing on here about who should be in the White House.

            The more overt anti-Israel apologists (usually, not the brightest anyway) also need to shut the fuck up lecturing the Irish with naively hypothetical questions about imagine how we would feel if the Brits bombed Dublin or invaded the bogside in Derry response to IRA attacks. If you don’t understand your own history then don’t start messing with that of someone else.

            Back to the topic, asking if the Irish are Anti-Semitic based on an initial false premise and then attempting to prove they’re not with an invalid experiment, but are really only “anti-Israel” without reference to the understanding of that term by key stakeholders in the debage, is about as helpful as claims that Ireland is a Catholic Country and that’s why we had the Savita tragedy. That’s tomorrow’s visualization: percentage of holy communion money trousered against female hospital admissions in Drogheda or Galway. Knock yourself out with the analytics.

            (Apologies for any typos etc in this post. I would remind you that grammar Nazis are usually anti-semantic.)

          4. John Gallen

            I was not attempting to ‘prove’ anything. I was trying to show in a small way, one angle that would assist in that argument. Not to prove outright.
            Proof is a million miles from what I was looking to do. You would realise that if you read the additional pieces of text that were in the email I sent to Broadsheet which I added in comment to others nearer the beginning of this discussion.

            As for you line you use here – “anti-Israel apologists (usually, not the brightest anyway) also need to shut the fuck up lecturing the Irish with naively hypothetical questions about imagine how we would feel if the Brits bombed Dublin”
            It was pro-Israel groups that sent those stupid images out. The images are on the Irish4Israel facebook page which Niall posted links to above.

  18. Sidthesexist

    I’m tired of the collective guilt trip, like some kind of original sin which all non-jewish people seem to have bestowed on them for what happened in WW2.

    Are there similar studies showing the level of anti-Christian sentiment or anti-Muslim sentiment in countries around the world?

    Stop blaming me. Blame Rothschild bank for lending Hitler the money to build his army.

  19. Cathal

    @Beagle – refreshing to hear the input of an Irish Jew. It saddens me to hear that you have experienced anti-Jewish racism here in Ireland. Do you mind if I ask what kind if incidents you experienced?

    1. BLC

      Bodger, is there any reason not to delete the replies to a comment you have deleted? It’s irritating for the repiier and mystifying for everyone else.

  20. caoimhín

    the uk has 5th largest jewish population in the world, so there’s no basis for comparison with the jewish community in ireland. personally i don’t believe irish support for palestine is motivated by anti-semitism, but when you openly champion an organization whose stated aimed is the eradication of all jews from the face the earth it’s a label you should probably get used to.

  21. Evangelos Kapros

    Hi all :)
    I am the guy that made this map. I made the map under the following assumptions:
    • The map is to be read with the small text that accompanies it on its website, which the original poster has included.
    • This text clarifies that I assume the data to be credible. I have nor the funding nor the time to investigate further.
    • I am not affiliated to the data source.
    • I think I have been super clear that the data involve only violent incidents and not hate speech, defamation, Holocaust denial etc.
    • Each and every incident is important and incidents in this case should not be mapped per capita or per Jewish population.
    • I am not going to submit this to CHI2013. :)) I’m involved there in other, proper ways ;)

    One assumption that is not in the text is that this is not about Israel. I don’t understand what violent incidents against, e.g., Canadian Jews have to do with Israel.
    Btw, Protovis is the ancestor of D3, which was not available yet at the time I made the map.

    1. Evangelos Kapros

      Aaaaargh
      “The map is to be read with the small text that accompanies it on its website, which the original poster has included”
      should be:
      “The map is to be read with the small text that accompanies it on its website, a link to which the original poster has included”

      1. John Gallen

        Thanks Evangelos for coming on and making these clarifications.

        I see though that I have lead people astray when sending this to Broadsheet as I did make certain assumptions regarding “….incidents in this case should not be mapped per capita or per Jewish population.”

        Apologies.

        That said, I am delighted that the debate was pretty damned engaging.
        Thanks for your map. I’m sure I’m not the only one that learnt a lot more of the situation from the ensuing comments :)

        1. Evangelos Kapros

          I hope I have explained well that it’s the type of data that would not give a meaningful per capita calculation, and I’m not saying this because of some ideology.
          To give another example, the other day there was a similar map here at broadsheet, the number of billionaires per country: http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/11/24/planet-of-the-billionaires/
          It correctly displays the number of billionaires, and not billionaires per capita. Billionaires per capita is not a quantity that really relates to the actual reality. In contrast, quantities like the GDP should be calculated per capita, as everyone in a country contributes to it. I hope this fully clarifies the previous comment of mine.
          And yes, we all sure learnt a lot from the situation :))

        2. judy, nyc

          there’s no debate, john. that would be like saying the catholic church shall hold a debate as to whether jesus is truly the messiah. poor john gallen.

    1. Voodoo Criminology

      One guy, who can’t even spell Israel or Gerry Adams, amounts to overwhelming evidence of anti-Semitic sentiment in this country? Purlease.

    2. John Gallen

      No I don’t. Why did you think those two links would make a difference? What’s your point Prada? Losing your space at the front of the parade (spectacle of attention?)?

Comments are closed.