He Hasn’t John A Gay You Know

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waters

In today’s Sunday Independent, author and journalist John Waters writes about his experience of Pantigate west of the Shannon and wonders if teh gays would be treated differently in relation to the Croke Park gigs.

Nobody I met had ever tweeted anything, or cared one whit what some drag queen had said about me, or what had happened afterwards.

Most had registered nothing of it, and those who had were even more perplexed – one woman even thinking that someone had accused me of being a homosexual.

On the issue of Garth Brooks in Croke Park, he poses the question:

Ask yourself this: if the performer in question was Elton John, would the same objections be raised?


Searching for the soul of the ‘true’ Ireland … (John Waters, Sunday Independent)

94 thoughts on “He Hasn’t John A Gay You Know

    1. Mikeyfex

      …are eejit and idiot the same word after taking a different evolutionary path. that’s one for Sunday now. is eejit the chimp to our idiot. Let’s ask Waters.

      1. Violet

        Yes, they’ve definitely split. Eejit is a bit more affectionate, maybe? Someone who might be temporarily wrong, while idiot is a harsher judgement of someone’s mental capacity?

        Let’s not ask Waters.

        1. Sidewinder

          Yeah, I also feel like an eejit only does stupid things that affect themselves, whereas idiots insist on affecting everybody with their stupidity.

  1. Waffle Waitress

    ^asks self the question^

    Answers-‘why yes John, the same objections would be raised as it’s a planning and licence issue, what’s your point?’

    1. Odis

      The question must surely be – Would Elton John behave like some petulant Texan prima donna?

    1. cluster

      Because (sadly) he retains the capacity to draw a reaction.
      This post being a prime example.

      1. Violet

        A picture of a pigeon gets forty comments here. Twice that if there’s a homeless man under it.

  2. Franco

    Great! Something to feel indignant about

    *wraps rainbow flag around and makes tea before reading*

  3. illuminati 16

    I find it hard to believe John didn’t encounter opinion in the liberal heartland of Galway city , surely the most far left area in Ireland.

    1. donnchup

      Haha. Good one. Have a look at the election results. Anyway, someone has written something that has the right-on broadsheet brigade choking on their lattés, what jolly fun!

  4. Alan Mc

    Of course their wouldn’t be any objections to Elton John playing, Elton John, isn’t wanted for crimes against music.

  5. Clampers Outside!

    “It seems we’re aiming to be something like Sweden, although most of us have never been there, and never wished to spend more than an hour in the company of any Swede we met.”

    I’ll ask my sister in law about the first part of that John W, she being from Sweden like. GFY on the rest.

        1. BobDobolina

          I reckon the very notion of a real*, equal, honest and fair socialist democracy horrifies and offends him in equal measures…..

          *as in one that actually works….

          1. ush

            “It seems we’re aiming to be something like Sweden, although most of us have never been there, and never wished to spend more than an hour in the company of any Swede we met.”

            Som om han skulle tacka nej till lite svenskt sällskap på en kväll.

    1. cluster

      Yup, weird and lazy stereotyping if Swedes. Not to mention that he is out of date. Sweden has been lurching slowly right-ward in recent years.

  6. David Kirby

    The ‘true ireland’ let me guess if you disagree with the reprobate you’re not a true Irish person. Gowl

  7. Sidewinder

    Why didn’t they just entitle this article “No True Scotsman”?

    If what Panti said had no effect whatsoever can he give the money back now? I also note the phraseology of “accused of being a homosexual” like it’s a criminal charge. Not since the nineties, John ya old gobshite, not since the nineties.

  8. deliverancecountry

    Some impressive dog-whistle stuff right there John.
    (On a lighter note- ABBA have announced a World Tour of Croke Park next summer.)

  9. ABM's bloody underwear

    “Nobody I met had ever tweeted anything, or cared one whit what some drag queen had said about me, or what had happened afterwards.”

    You’ll be giving that libel money back so?

  10. ABM

    Music to my ears! Correct my if I am wrong but isn’t the Sunday Independent the most widely read Sunday newspaper in Ireland? Something like 250K readers? The fight against the aberration and society destroying gay “marriage” has begun. When Waters gets going, the good, decent God-fearing people of Ireland are going to tell all you illberal liberal luvvies where you can stick gay marriage. Hubris tells you all that the electorate will vote for this charade in huge numbers, logic and the conservative disposition of our people says otherwise.

    Who would you listen to, an eminent, proud man, father and Catholic with his own home or a devious man in a dress with a few catchy soundbites and bitchy put-downs?

    Given the might, intelligence and persuasive power of those rising up and fighting gay “marriage”, the tide will not only be stemmed, children saved from this deviancy but it will be pushed back. Fringe dwellers dwell on the fringe.

    John Waters: for God and country.

    1. Really?

      “or a devious man in a dress with a few catchy soundbites and bitchy put-downs?”

      I presume you mean a Priest?

      1. ABM

        I did find your jibe somewhat amusing but the fight against those sort of priests is well under way. Besides there is no need for them to hide anymore. I have no problem with them supposedly “out and proud” on the margins of mainstream society as long as they can’t marry another man.

        In that respect, I’ll have the last laugh – the Yes side do not have the same quality of speakers and persuasive power of the No side. Most of the Yeses are soft ones.

        Gays and their luvvie champions will be sobbing into their sequins come spring 2015.

        1. niafall

          If this shallow muck is any indication of the persuasive power of the No campaign, you may need a plan B.

    2. Royal M

      “Who would you listen to, an eminent, proud man, father and Catholic with his own home or a devious man in a dress with a few catchy soundbites and bitchy put-downs?”

      The man in a dress. Every time.

      1. mike

        Both. Most people have valid opinions, arising from their life’s experiences, worth listening to.

        John Waters, on the other hand ……

    3. Rowsdower

      For someone who is all about the traditional values and family, how does that sit with him being an unmarried father?

  11. Iseult

    “Nobody, not even a Dubliner, should stay in Dublin for more than a fortnight at a time”

    We’ll miss u John…don’t forget to write now

  12. Bingo

    “one woman even thinking that someone had accused me of being a homosexual.”
    Accused???

    1. Parochial Central

      Oh, so you read the PC comments on the article then. It’s not in a court of law, so what’s the problem with the verb choice. Not PC enough for the Ivana brigade?

      1. mike

        The problem, for a published journalist, is accuracy, the facts etc.

        Its quite some time since being a homosexual was a crime in this country, so you dont need to “accuse” someone of being gay.

        “Supect” “confirmed”, “guessed”, “announced”, “outed”, “Thorpedoed” might be more appropriate verbs, or if he wanted to quote the woman, he could have put it in quotes.

  13. Llareggub

    Yawn, jaze, he’d send you into a coma, that fella. John, hello if you’re reading this, you’re as watery and insipid as your name suggests.

    1. Wheeltap & Shunter

      Opinions aside, he really is a terrible writer. There’s not a sentence of that piece which couldn’t be improved by entry-level editing. Lose the adverbs, lose most of the adjectives. Explain your distinction between cant and bullsh*t. Does stale bullsh*t smell? Does it smell worse than fresh bullsh*t? Etc, etc, etc.

        1. Llareggub

          He writes in rhymes and piddly riddles and meanders all over the place. His ‘writing’ is incoherent dross. What on earth is this ‘Swedish viewfinder’ or ‘Swedish agenda’ he speaks of. Utter nonsensical doublespeak.

        2. cluster

          Really? Opinions aside, and I understand that like-minded people might rally to a public figure who aggressively makes the case, can we not all agree that he is a poor writer?

          His work is full of lazy generalizations, logical leaps and inconsistent arguments. David Quinn, no Cicero himself, is much more competent advocate.

        3. Violet

          Ah, Parochial, that’s sweet. Refusing to back up your argument with anything other than flatulent snark makes you a true disciple.

      1. Cohen Hand

        Cant is a secret language – words have meaning, but it’s a language deliberately used to obscure that meaning from others.

        As in, “the thieves’ cant”, etc

        While bullsh*t is just bullsh*t.

        Perfectly intelligible distinction to me.

        1. Violet

          And “cant that smells of bullsh*t”?

          You’re a more careful reader than he is a writer.

  14. Parochial Central

    He’s been bullied on the the internet. Why add to his misery? It’s unfair. Let’s not forget in this age of transparency and accountability that Patsy McGarry is still employed by the Irish Times.

    However, I am not sure what the “Swedish” viewfinder is. I presume it’s an allusion to the likes of Jane Ruffino, who appears to be resident there. Anyone?

  15. LesbianFrontOfFortunestown

    Waters is an intriguing character. He’s a bit like white dog poo; you can’t help but stare at it, and wonder why its different to all the other dog poos. And then you realise its quite disgusting and you hate yourself a little for questioning something that can’t really be understood*. The guy is a f*cking slow motion car crash..

    *apparently it’s a result of low quality dog food with a high ash content.

    1. Llareggub

      Oh how true. It’s a long time since I noticed white dog poo! That association is stuck in my head now! The man has no shame.

  16. mike

    Waters has no “role” right now, so he is manufacturing himself as the spokesperson for the plain people wesht of the Shannon since Ming is gone to Brussels.

    Where better to incite division than inserting himself into the current Garthgate story.

    I bet in a few weeks he will do a rant about cuts in headage, or the turfbogs.

    If ever the response “Would ya ever p***s off, ya gombeen”, was appropriate, it is now.

    – MIke (whos from a mountainy bog in wesht)

    1. Clampers Outside!

      Hear, hear !

      He’s looking to mouth on about a division and put himself in it. I was thinking that through out the piece.

      I too am from the wesht, but on low laid bog country.

  17. mike

    Lets have a referendum on sending John Waters to Sweden, permanently.

    Carried, I’d imagine.

  18. Cohen Hand

    I am continually amazed by how a certain cohort of people who pride themselves on being nuanced, good humoured, liberal individuals who understand tone, irony and rhetoric suddenly become literal-minded dunderheads in the face of opposing viewpoints.

    “What is this ‘Swedish agenda’”, they cry! You know exactly what he’s talking about and the allusions he’s making, but you play the fool instead – and call it ‘doublespeak’ and ‘dross’ etc.

    I’m no fan of Waters at all, but honestly, cut the guy some slack. I don’t particularly agree with his opinions, but the Indo article is coherently and persuasively argued. Disagree with it, by all means – but if the best you can do is to deride it by saying, “isn’t this offensive and crap”, you’re hardly a worthy opponent.

    1. ush

      Rubbish. Clued-up people understand exactly what Waters is trying to do. He’s trying to peddle a myth that a progressive mindset is somehow alien to us Irish. Plenty of countries have more tolerant social climates than Ireland. Modernity isn’t some plot cooked up in Stockholm. Small-mindedness, self-pity and self-regard aren’t badges of honour. Last refuge of a scoundrel and all thats.

      1. Cohen Hand

        Yes, I agree: that’s exactly what he’s trying to do. And it’s a calculated position, not the bleating of maniac in the wilderness.

        He wouldn’t be the first person in the history of the state attempting to impose some dubious notion of Irish “identity”. And to my mind, his observation that it is always ephemeral and located elsewhere – the Bostonians, the Berliners, the faux New Yorkers, the little Englanders – is well made. If you’re going to pick a country to aspire to, Sweden is as good as anywhere: its arbritary nature is the point, and that it’s based on some vaguely Utopian and socially-democratic idea. With clean lines.

        As I said, I’m not a fan. And nor do I agree with this particular “vision” or his conservative values whatsoever. But his position is legitimate, to my mind, and it’s one that has broader support than one might think. I see no small-mindedness, self-pity or self-regard (or certainly no more than any other columnist) here: instead, I see a well-written piece about the battleground between traditional and progressive values. And it’s effective, to my mind, because it helps me clarify where I stand.

        1. ush

          You should know where you stand without help from Waters.

          Just because a position is calculated, doesn’t mean its particularly worthy. Calculating that people have a harder time understanding people whose lives differ from theirs, isn’t particularly brave. There’s the small-mindedness. And I don’t think you can call calculating on people’s fears of those who differ from them, rather trusting their understanding, legitimate.

          Knowing that he’d lose the debate if his argument was based on tolerance, he retreats to self-pity. As if he’s some kind of victim of a liberal elite, rather than a victim of his own ego.

          As for the self-regard, thats the other side of the self-pity.

    2. Llareggub

      ‘Swedish viewfinder’ ? No, sorry I’m still none the wiser.

      This piece by John is an attempt to vindicate and endear himself because somewhere in that Watery soul of his he knows that people despise him. He’s throwing out red herrings yes, I know, a popular Swedish fish) all over the shop to try and confuse.

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