51 thoughts on “Injunction In The Trunk

  1. well

    Protesters will probably just scream no contract no consent while proceeding to assault the workers anyway.

      1. Walter Ego

        The revenue aren’t involved like the property tax. I already pay for my water, so i’m not paying again.

          1. ReproBertie

            But you have already paid for the service. We pay billions from central taxation to fund the health service yet if you present at A&E you get a bill.

          2. dan

            So, are you (ReproBertie) suggesting that we should technically “double pay” for all services our income tax cover?

          3. ReproBertie

            No, I’m saying it’s not that black and white. Our taxation subsidises services but does not cover the entire cost. To meet the balance we charge for usage. That’s how it works with education and healthcare and, now, water.

  2. Same Old Guy

    We’re a nation of yappers yet even when we’re getting rode royaly we still wont get militant to do something about it. A simple boycott of all workers and their familes directly involved with the fitting, maintaining and reading of water meters would have shut the entire idea down from the off. We ALL rolled over. We get what we deserve.

    1. Mister Mister

      What an idiotic suggestion, seriously, I can’t get over how stupid this is.

      Maybe people in the country actually realise why we have to pay, rather than demanding everything for free.

      1. Same Old Guy

        ” Maybe people in the country actually realise why we have to pay ”

        I’m looking forward to your suggestion as to why we have to pay.

        1. well

          Because the pipes pumping cleaned water to your home 24/7 dont grow like trees, they have to be maintained, replaced etc.

          The water has to be processed. If you want completely free water feel free to collect it from your gutters.

          1. Same Old Guy

            In that case I’ll have a reduction in income tax please because I’ve being paying it already that way for years.

            God love the innocence, really! You’re paying Helmuts bond yield ya numpty.

          2. well

            “In that case I’ll have a reduction in income tax please because I’ve being paying it already that way for years.”

            As mister mister said “We don’t pay for our water through our taxes, there’s no specific percentage from your tax set aside for water.”

            “God love the innocence, really! ”
            dont talk down to me freeloader.

          3. Original Cynical

            So we pay billions in taxes but are getting everything for free because we pay for nothing specifically!

            Right I’ve got that.

          4. Original Cynical

            So we pay billions in taxes but are getting everything for free because we pay for nothing specifically!

            Right I’ve got that.

          5. ahjayzis

            I don’t specifically earmark and cordon off a fixed percentage for my gas, elec and food from my wages each month… YIPPEE! Free stuff!

          6. Yer wan

            Well it’s been free until now so obviously it is possible to do all of that with our income taxes. This is a slyveen tax to cover the costs of the debt the country is in. We should have followed Icelands lead, look at them now.

        2. Markus

          Because there is a considerable cost involved in providing clean water and an associated cost involved with treating waste water.
          also because the country is running at a deficit.

        3. ReproBertie

          Reasons we have to pay:
          1) The country is broke thanks to FF’s bank bailout
          2) We don’t collect enough in tax to cover the expenses of running the country
          3) The water system is leaky and unable to cope with the demand but this charge will help fund fixes and upgrades
          4) Water is free, treating water and delivering it to homes is not

          I look forward to hearing your reasons why we shouldn’t pay.

          1. ReproBertie

            Yes, Irish Water’s set up is a complete debacle but in what way does that negate any of my reasons why we have to pay?

            As an aside where are all the anti-water tax people when it comes to promoting rainwater capture systems? I’ve seen plenty about not paying and paying already and nothing at all about ways to reduce water bills (because for all the No! No! No! tantrums there will still be bills, even if AAA and SF end up in power after the next election).

          2. ABM's Bloodied Underwear

            I don’t disagree with paying water charges, or water treatment charges to be more accurate, I think.

            But I’ve had enough of the Political Irish way of shafting the public for the benefit of their mates which is blindingly obvious in what’s going on here. That’s why I’m not paying and not giving over my PPS number either. I didn’t say that my other comment negated yours so don’t know why you’re asking me that.

            When they set up a fair, transparent system which isn’t geared towards being sold to FG’s bestest non-dom buddy then I’ll pay. I don’t understand why people put forward the “water has to be paid for” argument, again which I’m not against, and seem to accept that the only way to do it is through this scam that is Irish Water.

          3. paul m

            ah now reprobertie, those rainwater capture systems (i presume you are referring to those that fill your tank as oppsed to your watering can) are very expensive and would only yield parity after about 5 years (probably more considering many who can afford them will be installing them quicksmart) so are well beyond the means of the majority of people. Besides, if the reservoirs were properly maintained and expanded we wouldnt be having droughts during the summer months or having to consider a mental notion of tapping water across from the shannon to dublin.

            1) – there has been no guarantee that all money collected from IW will go towards the maintenance of infrastructure and the company. You dont see syphoning off of funds from semi state organisations BNM or ESB into a pot to pay back the bankers. Even local councils who were told they would receive 80% of property tax locally with 20% going towards national projects have seen funds disappear into the general tax take (ie the pay the bondholders fund)

            2) – then increase the corporate tax rate, increase taxes again on high earners, increase general taxation by small incriments over years, take back the tollbridges on roads into government hands, increase tax on cigarettes and alcohol, on sugary foods, but trasparency is the key, people see money flowing out of the country and not going towards hospitals, health service, infrastructure. If we know where our money is going towards services (eg NHS) then people will grumble less. Yep higher tax but i can walk into a hospital and not be charged, or turn on my tap and not be charged, put out my bins and not be charged, walk down my lovely maintained street and appreciate where my taxes are going. sorry i was dreaming there….

            3) – it will but IW are under no obligation to bring it up to a standard that isnt leaking 40% of what it carries, they will just maintain it and patch it up but will cite ‘unmanageable costs’ as reason to not upgrade it properly. there were plenty of opportunities to upgrade the water services for years when we were being thrown money from the EU infrastructure fund, from Celtic Tiger tax take and yet it was neglected to give tax relief to buy votes and build motorways to nowhere (that government dont even get the toll take from!). It has been shown that privately operated services (water, transport) operating in other countries (Irish Waters future) do not invest the same level of maintenance as state run services and you get greater disparity between increased charges and an ever degrading network. there is no guarantee Irish Water have to invest anything into the system that will make it function properly. we need to see that guarantee in writing.

            4) – agreed. however have you considered the following. If i generate my own excess electricity i can put it back into the system and get payment for it. A lot of run off water comes from private land, so if more and more people were to install raincapture systems, it would lead to greater ‘drought’ situations with Irish Water charging us more for less following their ‘conservation’ charges system. A raincapture system realistically doesnt provide 100% so you would still rely on some small percentage of IW service. Why should we not be paid for the water we contribute from our land to the national system and be allowed to offset that agains the charges we get from IW to clean and process the water for consumption?

          4. ReproBertie

            TheDude you seem to miss that the FF/Green government started paving the way for water charges back in May 2007, over a year before the bank collapse and Troika bailout. Was Angela running the country even then?

            If you’re going to be patronising it helps to be right.

      2. Walter Ego

        @Mister Mister, we already pay for our water through taxes. Do you think the concept of water from our taps has suddenly been invented by Irish Water?

        1. Paul

          Some people already pay for their water, and have done for many years.

          Now if your problem is with the inevitable privatisation of the water supply you have my full support, however must protests seem to be around not wanting to pay for an expensive resource.

          1. ahjayzis

            You cannot just separate the ‘paying proportionate to consumption/conservation’ principle from the absolute stitch-up that is Irish Water, though,

            I’m sure there are plenty of people who just don’t want to pay, but I personally would fight it because it’s a bad system. And I pay un-metered water charges in London.

            The system everyone already pays for through general taxation will remain in situ for the next 12 years, running alongside the new superquango – two systems, paying twice, for the same service, that’s wrong.

            The ESRI have stated Scottish Water, starting from a similar base, managed to reduce overall costs of the water system by 40% in the first 5 years – we’ve locked in 1500 excess staff and 40 odd regional bodies until 202, literally throwing money away.

            The government has purposefully set about creating HSE 2.0, a bloated quango overseeing bloated quango’s paying themselves bonuses for high performance in a monopoly.

        2. Mister Mister

          We don’t pay for our water through our taxes, there’s no specific percentage from your tax set aside for water.

          Our outgoings are bigger than what we bring in through taxes and the likes, we have to borrow to make up the rest.

          Should people on group water schemes get tax rebates on an annual basis based on your logic that we pay for our water through our taxes ?

          1. Walter Ego

            “Our outgoings are bigger than what we bring in through taxes and the likes, we have to borrow to make up the rest”. Riiiiight, because those bonuses must be payed to an already over-bloated jobs for the boys club of Irish Water.

          2. Mister Mister

            I would hope you’re not running a household Walter Ego, you seem pretty clueless in the most basic principle of incoming money vs outgoing money.

          3. fmong

            “We don’t pay for our water through our taxes,”

            So who’s been paying the people who worked on our water works all these years? Were they doing it for free? No, our taxes were paying them. Ergo our taxes pay for our water.

            This is privatising public services, plain and simple, just like the IMF ordered.

          4. Steph

            Not to mention the fact that the decreases in water quality and availability over the last few years makes it clear that sufficient repairs and upgrades have not been done.

          5. Mister Mister

            No, our taxes weren’t paying for them. Our taxes may have been contributing to the costs, but we needed to, and continue to, borrow to make up the shortfall.

    2. edalicious

      Yes, that’s it. Punish the workers and their families, it’s definitely their fault and they deserve to be made feel terrible for it. Anything else you would care to turn your outstanding political prowess too? Student fees too high so we’ll stop college lecturers from teaching? Protest the bank bailout by mugging bank tellers?

      1. Lee

        Exactly! Sierra took on a load of contract workers to do this, I don’t know how many people they are employing but I’m sure it’s a hard enough job (in that they prob have targets to meet each day), without people being dicks.

    3. Medium Sized C

      You want to boycott the workers and their families?
      Am I seriously reading this?

      You want to punish workers families for the actions of the government and the semi-state who have hired their company.
      Not even the owners of the firm who employ them, but the families of the workers.

      Christ on a bike.
      Presumably this is part of a greater ultra-capitalist revolution?
      Maybe you feel the people of Ireland need to unite against the tyranny of working people and their families.
      Rip the power from the hands of the working classes and free the bourgeoise from the shackles of socialism?

      Fat-cats of the world, UNITE!

      1. Same Old Guy

        No you’re right. Probably better if I just shut up. Actually why dont they just knock on my door and ask me for random amounts of money from time to time.

        Actually this thread is annoying me too much already. Without our ECB debt burden there’s plenty of money to pay for water. Infact we could probably pay for it twice. Thing is I’m now paying for it twice myself. Good luck folks. I look forward to paying all of the future serf taxes you see fit in the future. Bloody lackey. Always sell you out.

        1. Murtles

          And Bertie and Biffo and the clowns who got us into debt sit on their lounge chairs in their conservatories smoking cigars and choking themselves with the amount of laughing they’re doing at us as we pay them €150,000 a year for doing so.

          * Shurrup, they might have conservatories……

        2. Nigel

          If it happens it won’t be because you did or did not stop a few water meters being installed or a few other people stood on principle and ended up with nothing but more and more debt to pay; it’ll be because of a complete failure to mobilise any sort of widespread popular support for meaningful political and financial reform, and that’ll be because you’d prefer to fight over utterly meaningless bull like whether you’re already paying for water through taxes and therefore shouldn’t have to pay for it again in charges, or because a reforming politician once said or did something that you disapprove of and that makes them a hypocrite. But that goes for the people disagreeing with you, as well. Too utterly divided to build on a grass-roots movement like this because it has its silly side and may have unemployed people involved.

    4. Nigel

      If you go after the workers instead of the politicians and the managers I hope you DO get what you deserve.

  3. Steph

    “Not aggressive at all” – no, it is distinctly not aggressive. It’s a carefully worded sign on a van. And it is far less aggressive than I’d be inclined to get if I was one of the water metre workers and was faced with some of the far less than peaceful protests I’ve seen.

    And I’m someone who disagrees with water charges.

    I know some protestors have been treated very unfairly but it damages the case for them when you act like this sign is just as much an act of aggression as the arrest and violent suppression by Gardaí of peaceful protestors.

    1. Steph

      Frankly I don’t believe a word Éirigí say about anything. I’ve seen their members get violent during demos and then fragrantly lie about it. The same propaganda you get from Denis O’Brien, it’s just from the opposite side.

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