Off to a meeting in the school as the religion teacher spent 3 classes on the topic of abortion pushing the pro life message.
— Jan Ní Shulleabháin (@Sharrow_ie) November 5, 2014
Had to write a note to excuse my 16 year old from writing a poem about abortion from the babies point of view.
— Jan Ní Shulleabháin (@Sharrow_ie) November 5, 2014
He is also pissed off with the statements about the type of women who have abortions & how it damages them.
— Jan Ní Shulleabháin (@Sharrow_ie) November 5, 2014
Hardcore.
un-creative writing 101: YOU WILL ALL WRITE THE SAME POEM FROM THE SAME PERSPECTIVE, there will be no original thought!
NONE!
We don’t know if the teacher asked the students to write it from both sides, so your original thought argument is flawed.
Also, the teacher is having the students apply feelings and emotions to a foetus. If that’s not pushing their own agenda, i don’t know what is.
When you say ‘both sides’ do you mean the mother about to abort and the child about to be aborted.
Mammy you’re such a langer
I thought you loved me now I see a coat hanger
This goes against your catholic ethos
Damn it’s hard being a pre-aborted foetus
fantastic work.
These lyrics would go almost perfectly with Marvin Gaye’s “What’s Going on?”.
In a few months’ time I’ll be born
Despite my mother’s scorn
But what’s that I hear
A vacuum cleaner is near
Now my limbs and abdomen are torn
How about
“I have no brain”
Ends
+1
*Stands up, applauds and sheds a tear.
Stay classy Tony
Bit soon to resort to ‘stay classy’, no?
toniez poem is klassie, itz very good . . .
very good
Ha!! First actual lol of the day :-) you did mean it to be funny, right?
horrendous. you halfwits loling at this are worse. im not pro life, each to their own but this is really awful.
Though admittedly a little derivative I thought my effort was at least as good as yours Tony but the regime don’t like it
what school was it?
https://twitter.com/sharrow_ie/status/529941932404146176
She needs to name the school. These children are being mentally abused.
+1
No, she doesn’t. There are other ways to pursue a complaint that don’t involve telling the internet where to find your kids when you’re one of very few people in Ireland who has openly discussed having an abortion.
She gets loads of shit on twitter and has gotten it from newspapers before, if I was her you couldn’t pay to me to name the school where my kids go. At least now she only has one religion teacher over whose behaviour she has some measure of control. If SPUC show up outside the school and abuse her and her kids there’s pretty much nothing she could do.
I hate this. Twitter user flags an important issue, but then doesn’t have the courage to name the institution. Why bother twittering it, it’s just fishing.
It’s not about her courage, it’s about her kids’ welfare. It’s a perfectly respectable position and she’s made it clear that she’s pursuing the issue.
It’s also about highlighting the issue that this still happens and telling people she is formally complaining so that others will know they’re not alone and will have the courage to do so too.
Courage? Really. You’re going to sit outside her kids school during the workday while those useless youth defence thugs decide they’re going to picket the school to “reeducate” her kids, are you? You don’t even have the courage to use your real name commenting on here, toughguy.
Mark… get a grip lad, get a grip, drink some Camomile tea and no coffee for at least a week.
Clampers, if you think that wouldn’t happen, you don’t know the people involved or you’ve forgotten how much crap she got when running the @Ireland twitter account. They do *not* like her, personally.
A womb-written verse
They seek from me. How did this
Pencil get in here?
+2HB
2B or not 2B, that is the – whoops, never mind.
I’m quite curious about the ‘types of women’ who have abortions.
Pregnant ones, I would assume.
SINNERS.
“Fornicators” probably. We’re in the world of no logic catholic land, occupied by the likes of Michelle Mulherin.
It is dispiriting to watch that canard about Mulherin become the version that everyone remembers. She was making a perfectly valid point about not legislating on the basis of our religious beliefs: “Abortion… is no more sinful, from a scriptural point of view, than all other sins we don’t legislate against, like greed, hate and fornication.”
We most certainly do not legislate against greed.
Lots of married ones have abortions
Me! I’m the type. Wanna make something of it? :)
Too little info in the tweet. Did he want to write it and she didn’t? Or did he not want to write it? etc
Is there anything wrong, in principle, about the task? We find the topic to be unsettling, off-putting, but surely some of the best writing stems from that…
Ah, I see, more info….
Lets not pretend that assignment was about improving the students’ writing.
A poem from a gestating foetus
__________________
__________
_____________
___________
______
It is a cluster of cells without a brain it can’t communicate.
A fetus /ˈfiːtəs/, also spelled foetus (or archaically faetus), is a developing mammal or other viviparous vertebrate after the embryonic stage and before birth. It is also defined as the unborn young of a vertebrate, after developing to its basic form.
A foetus has no brain?? At least get the most basic facts right Drogg.
Medical definition not wiki like yours
Fetus: An unborn offspring, from the embryo stage (the end of the eighth week after conception, when the major structures have formed) until birth.
And brain may start growing at 8 weeks but does not go through expanded growth to a functioning brain until 27-30 weeks but this is also not including people who’s unborn have FFM and their brain doesn’t form at all.
So we’re agreed, a foetus clearly does have a brain. So your initial post was entirely incorrect.
A collection of nerves is not a functioning brain.
Probably couldn’t handle any prose or communicate with a ghost writer.
A foetus has more than a collection of nerves. As you say yourself, a foetus is used to mean up-till-birth. You were just plain wrong to say a foetus doesn’t have a brain.
The anatomy department where I studied had lots of brains. There was a skeleton that had a brain in a container in it’s skull (didn’t fit very well mind). That doesn’t mean the skeleton could write prose.
No, ye didn’t agree.
If I had all the individual parts that made up a bicycle and threw it in a pile on the ground, it would be a more finished and working bicycle than the cluster of cells you are calling a working brain, or brain at all.
get a grip.
Dig up miffy, you fool!
The earliest possible point where even nerve cells exist is 5 weeks and that is 5 weeks from the egg being released not fertilisation. So you could say its 7-8 weeks after fertilisation before the first nerve cells appear. Nerve cells do no constitute a nervous system that is capable of any thought.
Pretty much another 2 weeks after that the 5 lobes of the brain start to form.
After 20 or so weeks the thalamo-cortilcal area forms, the basis of conciousness. So you could say a foetus has a brain from then on. What exactly it thinks though …I dont know.
And there are further arguments with regard to the relationship between blood flow and consciousness as the circulatory system of a baby and a foetus are drastically different.
foetus at even 15 weeks is far more than ,”a cluster of cells”
The “cluster of cells” phrase is held dear by some pro-choice people because it allows them to, entirely dishonestly, dismiss a developing foetus as a thing of nothing, a smudge, a phantom.
Its more a collection of cells then a functioning human.
Ever see a scan of a foetus at 12 weeks Drogg? Looks suspiciously human to me.
I have kids i have seen them through all stages of development but what you see on a scan at 12 weeks is no where near being a developed child. Have you ever seen a premature baby born at 30 weeks and how many issues they have because of underdevelopment? Saying a 12 week foetus is a baby is moronic.
Show someone without medical training a properly lit, actual photo of a 12-week-old fetus (rather than a creatively backlit, nicely cropped and photoshopped poster) and they not only won’t recognise it as human, they’ll think they’re looking at a field mouse. Show them one from earlier than that and they won’t know what the hell they’re looking at. There’s a reason the ultrasound technicians have to point out features to new parents on scans, and it’s not that ultrasounds are too fuzzy…
Where did I say a 12 week foetus was a baby Drogg, or a developed child??
Who cares what it looks like? The fact is there’s not enough of a nervous system to consider it an actual nervous system until week 24, and not enough to react to pain until 26 weeks. That’s called ‘sapience’ it’s about the level of awareness that a plant or bacteria has. ‘Sentience’ that is consciousness or awareness is way way further down the line. Get over this notion that your gut instinct is good enough to make these kinds of incredibly personal judgements on behalf of other people because ‘it looks like that’. Your argument doesn’t work for the motions of the planets, the shape of the Earth, the nature of time, or, basically, anything else ever, why would it be correct about foetal development?
If you’re one of those people who believes that the body is ‘ensouled’ at conception, I won’t say Christian since the Bible only vaguely states when life starts (with breath), that’s just tough luck, no-one else should have to live according to your preferred metaphysics/theology/supersition/delusion.
Um, D4n, you have the definitions correct, but the actual words switched around there – sentience is lower down the ladder than sapience (but to be fair, the definitions of those words have been horribly hijacked and had bad things done to them in dark rooms for the last few decades).
@Mark Dennehy, ‘Um, D4n, you have the definitions correct, but the actual words switched around there ‘ Fair enough, cheers for the correction.
Incorrect! It looks like a wonky alien baby, but it looks like a baby. You can even see a baby shape at 7 weeks.
15 weeks? Definitely a baby. You can see arms waving etc.
15 weeks is no where near survivable outside the womb it may look like the shape of a baby but it is no where near being a baby at that stage.
I didn’t say it could survive. I said it looks like a baby, not a “collection of cells”.
I just lost a 15-week old “collection of cells” in the past week or so, so forgive me if your point irritates me.
I get it, sorry for your loss its never easy, there are some good bereavement groups out there if you ever need to talk to anyone. Sorry for the callousness of my reply its meant it the grand scheme of things but for someone going through what you are i must seem heartless and for that i apologise.
@andyourpointiswhatexactly
I wasn’t going to comment on this thread, but I must tell you that I am truly very sorry to hear about that.
Cheers! I’m ok, ta. I’m particularly prickly at the mo, though, obviously.
I’m not anti-abortion. I ended up having to consider it as what we lost was going to be a very disabled kid so I’ve been giving all this a lot of thought recently. Mother nature intervened and stopped me having to decide, thank Chr*st, but things like this certainly open your eyes to what it’s like for people.
Sorry for what you’ve been through, it’s never easy.
Thanks for sharing.
andyourpoint – very sorry to hear that. sending you a big internet hug.
Very sorry to hear it, Andy. All the best.
That teacher should be fired.
depending on the school, the teacher may be disciplined if they don’t teach it, especially if it’s part of an approved lesson plan.
I don’t agree with what the teacher did, and would do a lot of things to avoid sending my kids to that school, but if it’s a Catholic ethos school, the teacher is probably totally within his /her rights, unfortunately.
If it’s a Catholic ethos school (ie. the vast majority of schools), the teacher isn’t “within their rights”, the teacher has been told “do this or be fired” by the BOM who have the right to fire them if they refuse. Or make their lives miserable.
Mind you, I’d still be pissed off at the teacher. If it’s your kids, well, sorry teacher, I know it’s a lousy position to be in and everyone has bills to pay and all that, but ultimately you chose your job over my kid…
If it’s a school with a catholic ethos, I can see why it has been an exercise for the students.
I completely disagree with it, but when you send a kid to a school with a catholic ethos for example, you’re agreeing to go with that ethos.
No, if there was a proper choice of non-catholic schools throughout Ireland I’d agree with you, but there isn’t. Many parents have no choice.
Mister, has it occurred to you yet that because the state handed over education to the religious orders for donkey’s years, there are no other schools other than catholic schools in most of the country? And that that means people have no choice because they can’t homeschool unless they happen to be (a) qualified and (b) rich enough that they don’t need to work to pay the bills?
So in effect, most of the country is legally required to send their kids to a catholic school.
Change that, make is so nobody has to do so, and then you could say “well, you sent them there” and it’d mean something other than “gosh, I don’t know what’s going on but I don’t have enough common sense to learn before opening my mouth in public about it”.
Look, I said I disagreed with it. But that viewpoint is to be expected in a school with such an ethos.
Without knowing they school involved, it’s hard to know how strongly they push such an ethos. In my secondary school in the 80s and 90s we were hardly thought religion.
But in some schools they wear it on their sleeve and it’s pretty obvious it will be pushed hard.
Ignore the spelling mistakes, i.e. “they” and “thought”.
All of that is true but none of it excuses this being pushed on her kid.
They are the only option available in most of the country, they receive state funding, parents are *legally* obliged to send them their kids. But it’s okay for them to take a *private organisation’s ethos* and apply it to the state-sanctioned education?
Like I said, if everyone had a choice, you might have a point. Until that stage however — and it’s not even remotely close, it’s miles off — you just don’t.
Name that school
She says it’s “a VEC with an ethos”.
Name that school so that what, everyone will know where her kids are?
Are you going to sit outside the school and watch over them in case Youth Defence show up?
Then why tweet about it?
Exactly.
To highlight the fact that this sort of thing is happening. To say she’s bot letting it stand. To let other people know that other people complain. To give them the courage to complain too. To vent. To express her feelings.
There is no rule book on why you tweet things and she doesn’t have to explain herself to you. She didn’t ask broadsheet to post this (or at least she didn’t tag them that I can see). Do uou go around asking anyone who tweets for the minute details and then complain when they don’t give them?
I’ve complained about work on twitter in the past but damned if I’m telling people where I work considering some of the psychos I’ve had tweeting at me.
She didn’t even know broadsheet had posted it.
(Nice one lads, by the way, ye might have asked since it was about minors rather than adults…)
What are YD gonna do exactly… jaysus :)
Well their supporters repeatedly contacted my former employers when I complained on their facebook page about that ad campaign two years ago. I worked for an organisation with a “catholic ethos” at the time and was given several very strong hints that I’d either have to stay quiet or improve my privacy settings and that I had put management in a very awkward position. A nun who worked their also tried to get me formally disciplined which would have stayed with me for the rest of my career.
So there’s that.
All the more reason to keep it off her twittrap shut
What?! That is absolute b****cks. And I suspect you know it.
Jaysus Side, sorry to hear that. Good to hear you managed to get out!
Clampers, they are not nice people. And by “not nice” I mean I wouldn’t trust them around children the same way I wouldn’t trust catholic priests or wild dogs around children.
What do I think they’d do? Show up at the school to “show support” and maybe “talk” to the students (and by “talk” I mean the sellotape comes out when that lot come round and they talk to kids in a way that has parents reaching for baseball bats and solicitors). Or else they picket the place for not forcing every kid to go through this nonsense.
And then they go home feeling all self-righteous and the kids go home to have nightmares for a month, but feck the kids because it’s the unborn that matter.
Seriously, you’re not related to these people. I am. I wouldn’t have them within an ass’s roar of my child.
I had to read this three times to realise you were addressing this to Clampers, and not talking about clampers. This is what happens when you read the comments from the bottom of the page up.
You have issues.
eyem guessing the baby goat is in Catholic school, huh?
Why did you kill me, mommy
When God made me special for you?
I really wanted to see you
And put my little arms around you.
Why did you kill me, mommy
Because I thought you really cared for me.
And I wonder what I would have grown up to be?
I guess I’ll never know, ’cause mommy, you killed me.
That is sublime.
No, that’s not the word I was looking for…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO5dYyrcmVo
€20 says that links to the epic load of sh1te that is the silent scream.
Ah shit. *hands over fictional €20*
DNA does not predict what a child’s first word will be.
And why do its eyes go red when it talks? That’s one terrifying embryo.
Actually your heart can stop at points during your life without you dying. If you get the appropriate medical help of course.
Why does the woman look so terrified of the baby stroking her hair? She looks well grossed out. I’m starting to suspect I’ve fallen victim to Poe’s law.
Ok seriously if that’s a legitimate attempt to stop a woman getting an abortion you’re doing it wrong. If I was told that thing was inside me I’d be on the very next flight to London.
That’s three minutes of my life I’m never getting back. Was it made by the same people who made salad fingers?
It’s a famous batsh*t pro-life song that has long been the subject of ridicule/disbelief.
I really can’t tell if the person who made that is taking the piss or not.
Also sorry I thought you were being serious when you posted that.
Tell me I deserve to go,then you may take me
Tell me I deserve to go,
but who would you send me to?
To a mother?nay, a father?couldn’t be,
you send me to fend for myself on an ever growing heap.
I say I shall be heard even with no voice
for this is not an option, this is not a choice
This is me in my fertile womb,that stays fertile evermore
And the fertile benefits you cannot ignore,no more.
I shall walk in my heaven with my god on my feet,
and there you will find me laughing,loving, singing to the hymns of the way forward
is this my life to offer?I feel not, but I know it is not yours to take.
Tell me I deserve to go,I won’t believe you,not before I’ve made my own mistakes.
That’s a gibberish poem I wrote for a pro life poet. He liked it.
Because there is no god and I have the right to both bodily autonomy and freedom of religion.
There we go, asked and answered.
Goodbye!
” ..shut it Adolf .I’ve seen the shit you’ll get up to in Germany about 40 odd years from now. You got it coming..”
“mommy, you killed me”?
Wow. Was mommy a yoga teacher, that she was able to bend over so much she could carry out an abortion?
Surely caroline, you meant “mommy, you had the nice doctor evacuate the womb before my central nervous system had developed to the point where you could detect electrical activity in it”?
Or were you talking out of another bodily orifice? :)
Hey, do you happen to have a copy of that poem you wrote from the point of view of a fetus in an eptopic pregnancy? Or the one where the fetus had a fatal anomoly? G’wan, post that drivel up here too, there might be other people out there you could hurt!
The fact that you’ve gone off half-cocked there with a ‘shoot first, do some rudimentary googling later’ policy is only a teensy bit worrying.
(Sorry, I know that’s cheap, but c’mon.)
You could write something way out there like
“I’m being aborted
my Mum doesn’t think
this is the right time or place
or life
for me to be born into
I trust her judgement
Is there an extra “e” in “judgement”?
I’m not quite sure.”
FIN.
Plot twist – shark foetus!
as if Ireland isn’t already infested enough with poets, now even the embryos are at it.
I know I shouldn’t have
But I did
My 16-year old self, who is a major arsehole, is rolling her eyes at the thought of getting your actual Ma to write you a note, instead of just handing up something infuriatingly half-assed or creatively subversive. As for your mother coming in for a meeting… there’s not enough scarlet in the world.
My present-day self commends mother and son for their sensible attitude and hopes for a swift and satisfactory resolution to this outrageous situation.
Is 3 tweets really enough for this story?
Check her timeline, there’s far more than three.
Like hell I will. Piece together a rant from a string of tweets? Who is she anyway?
Are you seriously going to complain about something then righteously declare you won’t check when told that the thing you complained about is not so?!
And why the “who is she anyway” comment?
1. Because I don’t get the story and the issue she has from a few tweets.
2. I’m trying to fathom whether this is merely a rant from a mother about her son’s teacher or if she is a journalist / politician / local representative highlighting an issue regarding the pro-life campaign or religious teaching in schools.
I admit Sidewinder that ‘who is she anyway’ came across as a bit blunt and flippant – not intended.
Fair enough.
Well I’d say 1) I got it fairly quickly but I do follow her on twitter. It’s not a twenty tweet rant that she has going there so I’d recommend taking a look.
2) No, she is not a journo/politician, she is talking about her mum but she’s fairly prominent in pro-choice circles. She had the Ireland twitter accound a few months back and openly discussed having had an abortion, I think she had written and article about it too. The tweets got a fair sized bit of international media attention and she was barraged by anti-choice gits on the Ireland account and her own personal account. Some really vile stuff was directed at her so I don’t blame her for not wanting to say where her kids go to school.
Sorry, I meant talking about her son as a mum.
If you checked you’d see it’s not a rant but a careful series of tweets outlining the circumstances of the complaint.
Maybe this should be our new test. If it can write a poem, you can’t abort it.
I’ve met a few fully grown chancers in Grogans who could do with being aborted, by that measure.
How about doing some research project into like, the reasons why women chose this option – y’know, poverty, lack of support, already stretched to the limit, own health issues, domestic violence, abuse, just not being able to cope and Christ knows what other reasons. FFS..
I am a baby
waa waa waa
I die I die
waa waa waa
The blood of Alshenicron
Destiny of the chosen seven
The galaxy’s edict
Waa
The poem only works if while it is read a feminist dressed as a cardinal is writhing silently on a revolving tophat.
She was a girl from Birmingham….
The church believes that women with unwanted pregnancies are hermaphrodites. Or conceiving from a spirit. Wouldn’t that be wonderful if males could bear offsprings, there would be no terminations and the slut problem would go away along with women as part of species. God bless!