Meanwhile, In Perth

at

Perth

Perth, Australia

The Guardian reports:

“24 Irish nationals, including children, are in a Perth detention centre awaiting deportation after Western Australia police investigated seven members of the group over an alleged suburban roofing scam.”

“A total of 26 people, including children, were detained by the Department of Immigration and Border Protection but two have been released.”

“Police arrested five men and two boys, both 17, on Thursday over allegations they had been posing as employees of a roof repair business and going door to door in Perth suburbs in an an attempt to scam elderly residents.”

24 Irish nationals detained in Perth over alleged roofing scam (The Guardian)

Thanks Garthicus and NiloMcD

77 thoughts on “Meanwhile, In Perth

    1. madouveh on the dole

      who exactly said that?

      Australia gets our discards, Canada, the US and London get our best.

      1. Mister Mister

        Joe Duffy and his many whinging callers say that.

        And every populist TD when it comes to talking about emigration.

  1. james

    Twinkly eyed little fuppers with a pig under their arm. I’ll roof your house…. but I might steal the ladder.

  2. Father Filth

    I’ll paint your house.. but watch out now, I might steal your ladder ohohohoho! [/Dylan Moran]

  3. Gee-gees

    Cue the usual racist (yes, they are a race) comments from BS commentators who would be up in arms if anyone else made such assumptions about any other group. Travellers are fair game right?

      1. Don Pidgeoni

        Why not? Genetically different according to the study below and definitely a different ethnicity

        1. Kolmo

          Not a race, just Irish who branched off from the rest of Irish society due to their migratory lifestyle and developed parallel culture and traditions within the migratory group, slightly different genetic makeup can surely be explained by the relatively small population of the group and the cultural dislocation/isolation from the rest of us.

          1. scottser

            in fairness, the evidence is hardly conclusive. if the results are taken to mean that a section of the population reproduced within their own group for a protracted period of time, then it stands to reason that there are extended families in rural locations (not just in ireland) who have done the same. are they to be counted as a distinct ‘race’ also?

            as regards to ethnicity, traveller identity, like all cultural identities is in a state of constant flux.
            “The term ethnic group is generally understood in anthropological literature (cf. e.g.
            Narroll, 1964) to designate a population which:
            1. is largely biologically self-perpetuating
            2. shares fundamental cultural values, realized in overt unity in cultural forms
            3. makes up a field of communication and interaction
            4. has a membership which identifies itself, and is identified by others, as
            constituting a category distinguishable from other categories of the same order.”
            (Barth, 1969:10-11)
            According to Barth, his ‘quarrel’ is not so much with the substance of these characteristics
            which as an ideal type definition is “close enough to many empirical ethnographic
            situations” (1969:11). However he suggests that that while shared cultural traits are
            important, they only become so as ethnic groups are formed through a social process of
            boundary creation and maintenance. This means that the fourth point listed above – how
            groups come to define themselves and be defined by other as a distinct ‘people’ – should
            be seen as the ‘critical feature’ and the other points – the ‘cultural stuff’ – become
            diagnostic of ethnicity only insofar as they become bound up with the process of boundary
            maintenance. This change of focus turns out to have many important consequences for
            the understanding of the phenomenon of ethnicity in the world and inevitably for how
            research on ethnicity is understood.

            http://www.equality.ie/Files/Traveller-Ethnicity.pdf

          2. Gee-gees

            That study says the separation happened about 1k-2k years ago, so a bit more than an isolated group intermarrying. Its actually pretty interesting and all tied up with Irish history. The genetics is only one bit (I don’t hold much for it as an indicator of “racae” as its more complex than that) but that was for those commentators who I knew wouldn’t buy into the ethnicity definition. And science is great.

            And ethnicity may be in a state of flux but that doesn’t mean it isn’t different, although you are making the assumption all travellers have the same culture, whereas settled ones might be different to those still mobile.

            Those points don’t tell me anything to make me think that what I said is not true.

          3. scottser

            the equality authority reiterates barth’s central point that ethinicity is largely concerned with issues of identity and boundary creation, that if you believe yourself to be of a certain ethnicity then fair enough, even in spite of any other cultural evidence to the contrary, you can identify yourself as such. travellers are an ethic group and not a race.

    1. Kevin

      Aside from the details of the case, the lads were picked up from a caravan park. Maybe they’re not travellers, but what a coincidence.

    2. Disgrace

      Well, if they are a ‘race’ then it’s fair game to refer to them by ‘race’ in situations like this I would have thought

          1. scottser

            eye-roll all you want lad, but issues relating to inclusion, equality, protection from discrimination, dignity etc is already underpinned by legislation, as it should be for everyone. the arguments for travellers being a separate ‘race’ are hugely problematic and the evidence for those arguments is not conclusive.

          2. Gee-gees

            That protection is only granted if they are seen as a separate race or ethnic group. Why would travellers being considered a separate group be problematic?

          3. scottser

            That protection is only granted if they are seen as a separate race or ethnic group.

            so you’re saying equality legislation for everyone is only valid if you’re part of an ethnic group? so you’re saying that citizenship is redundant?

            cultural identity (see the exerpt i posted above) is considered the principle argument in favour of being seen as separate ‘race’ essentially, if i banged on about say, ginger people, long and hard enough would it be right if they were seen as a separate race? likewise, ali selim was on about separate changing facilities for muslim schoolgirls and got rightly shot down. a level playing field for all citizens regardless of identity is what the state should provide but i’d be the first to admit that the state falls short in many aspects of its duty of care to its citizens.

          4. Gee-gees

            “so you’re saying equality legislation for everyone is only valid if you’re part of an ethnic group? so you’re saying that citizenship is redundant?”

            It would appear it was invalid & that citizenship was redundant if travellers rights had to be written into equality legislation. It would be nice if legislation wasn’t needed but it is because not everyone is treated equally as evidenced by outcomes for travellers. No examples of how travellers being recognised would be ‘hugely problematic’ as you state.

            Examples of people of ginger hair are pointless as they don’t met the criteria for the current definition of ethnicity.

          5. scottser

            sorry lad, your argument makes no sense. surely everyone’s equality stems from our rights as citizens first? ‘cultural identity’ is something that anyone can claim but it doesn’t and shouldn’t give you any more rights than anyone else. as regards outcomes for travellers, the state operates a system based on needs, the assessment of which is open to everyone and not just travellers, which in theory at least is the way things should be.

            anyway, i’m done with this, as i’m only repeating myself.

          6. Gee-gees

            The system clearly isn’t working for travellers when their outcomes are so terrible, the equality of citizens is not working for this group. There is no equality for them when you look at their health, or education or anything really. You are repeating yourself because you assume equality works when sometimes you have to favour some groups over others to improve outcomes. That’s not just travellers, thats kids born into poor families etc.

            Maybe when you come back you can give me those examples

          7. scottser

            you’re into a whole other area now, completely unrelated to our discussion. as regards what you think i ‘assume’ about how equality works, you couldn’t be more wrong.
            good luck – i’m out.

          8. Gee-gees

            For one, you can’t just leave without having the last word, despite claiming to. Who’s the loser now*??

            *or some lame summation of character based on online comments

    3. Roj

      They bring it on themselves, no smoke without fire etc. Oh yes, a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch *cough cough splutter*

    4. Don Pidgeoni

      Not sure why I am surprised that this conversation needs to be had every single time among what is supposedly a smart bunch of people

        1. Odis

          >“Socially, its pretty clear”

          So go on the m80. Tell us what they do, that makes them different from the rest of us?

          1. Gee-gees

            Oh, my eyes are going to roll out of my face with dealing with this thread of dweebs…

            If you bothered to read my comments you would see where I make the distinction between the two. Thanks for the passive-aggressive response but maybe you could use you extraordinary knowledge of contemporary arguments about race and ethnicity to inform some of your fellow commentators?

    1. Paolo

      That won’t happen. They go abroad, scamming people in the UK, continental Europe and Australia and giving Irish people a bad name because those people are often too innocent to realise who they are dealing with.

      1. Disgrace

        Yep, and their victims simply think that they’re Irish (and not an ethnically distinct group) – we’re being tarred with the same brush here

        Just like a driveway

      2. Gee-gees

        But travellers aren’t a different race so you must be be fine with people assuming they are Irish

  4. Dubloony

    So is the money going to compensate those who have been defrauded or do they just deport everyone with a nice chunk of change?

  5. bisted

    ….despicable…apparently they turn up mob handed…tear up your driveway….claim they’ve done work that you didn’t want or ask for…then try to extort money for something you already own.

    1. Joe the Lion

      That’s exactly what they do

      I worked with some in Germany. They would say ‘ich mache die strasse fur kleingeld’

      Silly Germans would be taken in by them then when extorting cash they would claim their boss ‘in Belfast’ was very upset at refusal to pay etc

      These folks are utter vermin and should be spayed.

  6. Spaghetti Hoop

    Surely they are scumbags first, nationality second and Travellers third? Judge a man by his actions I say.

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