Gulp.
Newstalk’s George Hook speaking with Julian de Spáinn (Conradh na Gaeilge) in the run up to Lá Mór na Gaeilge (big Irish language day).
Troid!
Listen here (interview starts at 21.50)
Thanks Ultach
Sponsored Link
Everything. As It Happens.
It’s not fair to say that.
Give him a few seconds, the “I think” leaves him the opportunity to argue with himself mere seconds later.
Genius.
Not really a troid, more a meabhrú I’da thunk.
Sorry, last year. Julian was on with him recently again.
says Hook who struggles with comprehensible English.
HOOK is a product of Irish Culture.
Irish Culture is Hook.
Hook is a amadan.
Yeah Hookie because you wouldn’t think twice if Obama spoke a native american language or Abbott spoke a aboriginal language..
Well that’s an interesting comment. Presumably you wouldn’t be surprised if an Native American spoke Native American or an Australian Aborigine spoke Australian Aborigine. But Native Irish? Unlike those others, we successfully achieved political independence, so while the initial repression of the language is down to the forces of colonisation, the subsequent failure to revive it and make it a more integral part of modern culture is on us. Obama and Abbot have no remit or obligation to make Native languages thrive outside the surviving Native cultures in their respective countries, but from the foundation of the State, our leaders did. They failed. We hate Irish because of the way it was taught, no-one can dispute that. But we want to give up on it because it’s an emblem of our own failure, and nobody’s more brutal about our failures than we are. To give up on it we have to devalue it and distance ourselves from it and even demonise it. What a depressing spectacle.
Yes but they’re not their individual native languages.
I agree to some extent but your actual examples dont work well.
Rather would Cameron be looked at as eccentric if he began speaking the mother tongue of much of English and much of British culture, Latin, and expect every to accept it? Or a more updated example, what if started speaking Old English? Of course they’d see him as eccentric
What if Abbot spoke the language of his ancestors from the Netherlands and spoke Dutch?
The argument that Irish should be spoken because it was by our ancestors, could equally work for every blue eyed or blonde Irish person in Ireland speaking Norwegian demanding others learn enough to understand him and respond in Norwegian…
Lan, are you being deliberately obtuse to provoke a reaction? Ok, I’ll take the bait. Hook isn’t arguing that people should learn and speak their ancestors’ native language. If people want to do that, fair play. I did it and I’m glad I did. But there’s nothing in Hook’s quote that suggests that he thinks someone’s ancestors’ language is their own native language. I can tell because I looked it his, um, words. He refers to native Irish speakers who are regarded as eccentric for speaking their own language. Go on, have a look, its at the top of this page. By the way, old English corresponds to old Irish, not modern Irish. David Cameron’s native language is modern English. And where did you pull Latin out of?
Is fíor dhó é. Ta’s agam gu bhfuil fiadhbanna aisteach ag daoine leis an teanga ach is suarach gur fuath le daoine rud chomh saibhir, chomh h-álainn agus chomh dúchasach leis an nGaeilge. Nil an bagáiste céanna ag an nglúin óg buíochas le Dia agus is iontú atáímse ag cuir mo dhóchas.
Could you translate, please? I don’t speak eccentric.
Here y’are:
Il a raison. Je sais qu’on a des problèmes bizarres avec la langue mais c’est méprisable qu’on déteste une chose si riche, si belle et si indigène que l’irlandais. La jeunesse n’a pas le même préjudice, Dieu soit loué, et c’est en eux que se mis mon espoir.
With apols to Louis.
Nár lagadh Dia thú!
Merci!
I understand more of this than the irish :(
Why the sad face Joxer?
Hook?
Nah, spanner!
Ní maith liom George. Tá sé a complete numpty.
… except it’s not the native tongue of the vast majority of people in Ireland.
He didn’t say that. Ní shin a dúirt an fear. Ach fair plé for pointing out the bleeding obvious.
Em. … yes It is.
He said that people who speak their native language, referring to Irish, are regarded as eccentric. He didn’t refer to non-native speakers. However, and this is nothing to do with George, people who learn a second language and hitch up with someone else who did the same and then continue to almost exclusively speak that second language together to the extent that it becomes their children’s first language, now that’s completely off the wall. I should know, I did it. It’s also known as language revival and happens throughout the world. But here I go again off topic.
Em… no it’s not. Only in the deluded mind of Irish language hobbyists is it anyone’s native and primary day-to-day language. Ireland is an English-speaking country and has been for over a century.
Really Atlas? Really? Do you say this out loud in the company of sane people? Really? Are all the native speakers I know ghosts? Am I living in that film with Bruce Willis and the wee boy who sees dead people? All. The. Time! Are my childers and their friends and the ones at the youth club and at the hurley training and in the post office who have only ever spoken Irish with me just making up gibberish and am I only pretending to understand because of an unhealthy fixation with Padraig Pearce? That’s some prodigious delusion I have. Maybe I fell asleep in front of an episode of Echo Island at an early age and never woke up and all this is just an illusion. Thank you Atlas, thank you, you rational Anglophonic saviour you, I’ll never have to decline an irregular verb or wrestle with a genitive case or a conditional mood again. Thank you for waking me from my Gaelic slumber and helping me face reality. Forward to a brave new monolingual Ireland! Clear the way, bogtrotters, your language is dead. I’ve joined the pure, clean, monoglot herrenvolk. Who needs knowledge? Who needs culture? Who needs history. Ireland is English. Innit?
Are any one of those Irish-speakers monoglots? In fact, do you know a single Irish speaker who can only speak Irish and isn’t also fluent in English?
I should clarify, I don’t have a problem with the Irish language. I just insecure gaelgoirs and wannabes would recognise reality and cease with the ‘native language’ pretence (which is just not true for the vast majority of Irish people). It gets in the way of actually reviving the language outside of rural pockets out wesht.
Atlas, this is irrelevant to the post about George Hook, but I’ll answer your questions and points. I do know Irish speaking monoglots. They’re all under 5. The fact that native speakers and learners who choose to use Irish are bilingual is not a reason to deny their linguistic rights or to mock their accent when speaking English (although, admittedly, I do enjoy doing that myself). Most Dutch speakers also speak English (some of them with amusing accents), but that is not a reason to deny them services in Dutch.
“I should clarify, I don’t have a problem with the Irish language” – Good.
” I just insecure gaelgoirs and wannabes would recognise reality and cease with the ‘native language’ pretence (which is just not true for the vast majority of Irish people).” What is the native language pretence? There are native speakers. There are learners. There are people who do not want and will not learn Irish. Native speakers are in a minority, yes. Fair enough. Who are these insecure “gaelgoirs”? It’s not, however, a pretence, nor is it insecure, to recognise that the Irish language is part of our national heritage (and this is not the same as claiming it is the native language of all of us). You say you do not have a problem with Irish, but it appears from what you say here that you have a problem with Irish speakers. Get over your prejudice.
As for which language is more expressive, all languages are equally expressive. People more or less expressive in different languages depending on their competence in different languages. For some it’s Irish, for others it’s Greek, for others it’s Bulgarian. It’s nothing to do with the number of words in a dictionary, which I think is a point you were making.
The only delusion I can see is your delusion of insecure “gaelgoirs” and “wannabes”. Anyway, what’s wrong with wanting to be an Irish speaker? How is that insecure? And how does wanting to be an Irish speaker get in the way of reviving the language outside of the Gaeltacht. Surely that’s exactly the way to revive the language? It seems to have worked in my family and with the families of all my children’s friends. We adult gaeilgeoir wannabes learnt the language and our children are now native speakers. A bit wacky, I know, but we’re not hurting anyone else. Yet we face a constant barrage of abuse, mockery, hatred, denigration and denial of our language rights. Your posts here are part of that. It’s not acceptable.
irish is an expressive language, much moreso than english. but even Irish doesn’t have a word for how thick you are. B;fheidir bod, gléas nó article.
That was obis for Atlas. An claidhaire cam.
It’s ok, I ducked.
Given that English is spoken by over 800 million people, has over 1,000,000 words in its dictionary and is the lingua franca of the world, and Irish is spoken by a few hundred thousand (optimistic estimates) and has about 50,000 words in its dictionary, I somehow doubt it’s more expressive.
Again, cease with the delusion. It’s not a competition.
It’s a shame but he’s right. Stop shooting the messenger.
He also could have pointed out that a higher proportion of crank letters to the editor etc are signed as Gaeilge (c.f. Aine Ni Chonnail)
I’m going to write to the Editor about that!
Mise,
Ultach.
Oh.
There’s truth in what he says…but I believe that perception is changing as more ex-learners of Irish revisit the language and TG4 keeps doing its good work. Very much an optimist on this.
there’s a ‘modern irish’ – you hear on the likes of radio nova and tg4 and it sounds fake and nasty on the ear. spoken irish by older people, even if you don’t understand it fully is beautiful and poetic. if you ever get to a gaelteacht you’re mugging yourself if you don’t instigate some manner of conversation in irish.
I like the flat vowels and gravelly rhotic r of rural Lancashire rather than the fake and nasty London yoof speak. I seek out older English speakers when I can. They’re so cute with their flat caps, wrinkled stockings and wippets an’ all.
Philip and the lady of the manor prefer corgis, no :)
Since you mention them, I saw a spoof of Michael D’s visit to Windsor last year. Hugh Dennis was voicing over some footage of Squee being talked down to by Phileeep. They were looking at an Irish wolfhound mascot of one of the Irish regiments in the UK army (the modern day successors of the doughty subjects who chucked themselves over the top first alongside the Scots long ago). Quote Hugh Dennis as Phileeep: “Faihn beeest yew hev thar. Ees eet yohw hohws?”
ultach, you are widely known for your glottlestop fetish but the whippets? a dangerous escalation my friend. if you have the urge to say ‘ee ba goom’ the next time you’re surprised, get thee t’ medic lad.
I know I have a problem, but I’m no’ ready t’ tackle i’ ye’. Mmmmmm…
except for Brittany. Or the Languedoc. Or much of Nigeria. Or any country or region where the previous language had been swept away by cruel history.
Cruel, cruel impersonal history. Pity we have absolutely no control over anything. Stuff just happens.
Think most people in the country would love to be able to speak Irish.
Tá an ceart agat
Where are Jane and Joe the Lion now? Cos anyone who loves irish must be an anglophobe or something. Or if you’re an irish speaking gay person then you must hate yourself twice? `no? `non?
You’re a tiresome sad little troll.
Go away and play with your equally ignorant mother.
So that’s Joe the Lion. Sorry, I haven’t been keeping up. I was trying to work out why Bluebeard was referring to a David Bowie song. Now, who’s Jane?
Sweet lass from a Lou Reed song?
A common misconception among anti-Irishers is that Irish speakers are Anglophobes. An understandable misconception, I suppose, given our histories. No harm to point out, though, that the vast majority of Anglophobes in this country are themselves monolingual English speakers, the types of ignorant lumps who protest at foreign games in Croke Park while wearing ManU and Celtic shirts. Many of them, ones I’ve spoken with anyway, actually blame the English that they cannot speak Irish. Most Irish speakers I know, whether native speakers or learners like me, are actually anglophiles and xenophiles, and regard other European languages as part of our common heritage. That said, there are plenty of Irish speaking pricks, as well as quite a few nice people who would like to see the end of Irish and Irishness altogether. But that just goes to show that people are people and you can’t predict their whole personality based on their ability in Irish or attitude to it.
–