As you may have heard the vote on the amendment of the Constitution to widen the definition of marriage, to include marriages contracted by members of the same sex will take place this Friday.

So what has that got to do with those posters?

We asked Legal Coffee Drinker what’s it all about.

Broadsheet: “Legal Coffee Drinker, what’s it all about?”

Legal Coffee Drinker:
“Gay people will be able to legally marry. They will also be able to avail of all the benefits of being married, including tax relief, inheritance provisions, and, of course divorce and separation.”

Broadsheet: “But what about all the posters of sad children”

LCD: “Although gay couples can’t currently adopt as a couple, it is possible already for either of them to adopt as single persons. And in fact, independently of the referendum, the law has already been changed to allow gay couple adoption.
The Children and Family Relationship Act 2015, signed by the President on April 6 last, provides that cohabiting couples and those in civil partnerships have full adoption rights in the same way as married couples. It’s just awaiting a ministerial order to come into effect.”

Broadsheet: “And surrogacy, another source of concern from the no side?”

LCD [inserts Lungo Grand Cru Nespresso capsule]: “The surrogacy rules are the same for everyone at present. The child is deemed to be the child of the surrogate mother, and has to be adopted before it can become the child of the parents engaging the surrogate.

Broadsheet: “At present?”

LCD: “[Health] Minister [Leo] Varadkar has proposed a change in the law on surrogacy, which would involve the surrogate giving up her rights to the child, but it hasn’t yet been put in statutory form. If the legislation on adoption doesn’t distinguish between married couples and civil partners, it’s unlikely that the new surrogacy legislation will either.”

Broadsheet: “Why are  the no side saying ‘goodbye mammy’?

LCD: [pause]Because they either haven’t bothered to look up the law or they are trying to mislead people.”

Broadsheet; “So Gay couples may be able to have a child through surrogacy and this angers them?”

LCD: “Yes but the operative word is ‘may’. The surrogacy rules are the same for both straight and gay couples at the moment there is no indication that Varadkar’s new surrogacy proposals will dsicriminate either. You don’t need a referendum for gay couples to have kids through surrogacy.”

Broadsheet: “So even if the referendum is not carried by the yes side gay couples who are civil partnered may be able to have a child through surrogacy?”

LCD: “Yes though if the referendum is not passed I suppose the government might say well we won’t bother with gay couples.”

Broadsheet: “Hence the posters?”

LCD: [drains coffee] “Yes.”

(Sasko Lazarov/Photocall Ireland)

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43 thoughts on “SurrogateGate

  1. Jonotti

    Jesus, has any one met children? Who the fupp would want to have them? Nightmares.

  2. Randy Ewing

    There were 25 adoptions in Ireland last year by people not related to the child ( circa 60 more were related to the child , step father & mother).

    There were 11 cases of surrogacy, again mostly within a family.

    1. ahjayzis

      Many of those 25 may have been fostering the child for a good while before the adoption, too.

  3. Clampers Outside!

    So… the no vote posters are telling lies, drumming up FEAR among the no side and swing voters.

    Selling something on FEAR, like a product, is enough to have an advert banned by the ASAI (Advertising Standards Association of Ireland). Fact.

    But these scumbags on the No side know that because they are not selling a ‘product’, the rules don’t apply. They can easily play on the FEAR and tell all the lies they want without getting banned or other repercussions.

    Sorry now but… who is accusing who of bullying again?

    Fupped up !

    1. Tony

      Oh you’ll be sorry when newsjustin, tm and rotide get here. You’re lucky they’re at mass right now is all

    2. neil

      Unfortunately political posters aren’t covered by ASAI, which is a self-governing association made up of advertisers themselves.

    3. dylad

      I was thinking the same and wondering how they got away with it. I suppose it would limit what political parties can put on election posters/flyers if the law was changed…

  4. Spaghetti Hoop

    Would LCD care for some beautifully-decorated but legally-charged Sesame Street cake?

  5. Gers

    Not accurate now but later on….. France has banned surrogacy but last week a court has ruled (in line with human rights court) that 3 children born from surrogacy abroad (Ukraine) and in the care of a gay couple were to be officially recognised. Its creating a total nonsensical situation as the surrogacy ban is now pointless. And so effectively, the road to surrogacy is inevitable and demand will be increased by gay couple marrying – seen in France but also in the States – creating a situation where by Children will, by design, not have link with their birth mother/fathers.

    1. Ms Piggy

      but even so, what has this to do, specifically, with gay couples? Surely all of the ethical and legal issues raised by surrogacy also apply to straight couples? And I’m pretty sure that overall, there are more straight couples raising children born through surrogacy than there are gay couples doing so. So it’s got NOTHING to do with gay marriage rights.

      1. Don Pidgeoni

        But the geys are known for their love of designer things, including children. There will scores of fabulously dressed but ultimately motherless children running around Ireland. Scores!

    2. realPolithicks

      Surrogacy, Surrogacy, Surrogacy, no mothers, no mothers, no mothers, foreign money, foreign money, foreign money… no attention to the man behind the curtain.

  6. PPads

    If money is exchanged, surrogacy is a topic I am personally uncomfortable with but I am perfectly fine with a woman who is willing to help a male couple as long as that child knows their heritage. I expect that is a pretty middle of the road opinion but it is not what this referendum is about.

    Why can these people just be honest and stop hiding their prejudice behind a smoke screen of unrelated issues? If they don’t like gays then just stand up and say so because young people can handle that much better than this dishonest bullsh|t which is really doing them harm.

    1. PPads

      * can’t. I’m an older person who on a train prefers to look good rather than see good.

    2. Someone

      If they just stood up and admitted they don’t like gays then they wouldn’t be able to play the victim card, and Breda would look even more foolish crying on an Irish Times podcast.

      Anyone read her latest OP on thought police? Good grief.

  7. Anne

    inserts Lungo Grand Cru Nespresso capsule

    Inserts where? Grand cru huh.. Sounds nice.

    I think I’m gonna get me one of those Nespresso’s one of the days.

  8. Anne

    In fairness, with any issue you always have to think of the cheeeldren…. even if it’s completely irrelevant.
    The cheeeldren always pulls on the heart strings.

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