Confederate Of Dunces




On Cork’s 96 FM this morning.

Cork-based singer Karen Underwood explains why, as a black American, the confederate flag used by GAA fans supporting the ‘rebel county’ is offensive.


Previously: GAA President in appeal to Cork fans over Confederate flag (Irish Examiner)

Pic: Irish Central

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94 thoughts on “Confederate Of Dunces

  1. Formerly known as

    I don’t expect to see any more Confederate flags at Cork games. We will just stick with the Japanese War flag.

      1. limbo

        There was a swastika flown at the 1990 Munster Final in Thurles, made front page of Examiner at the time, and other German WW 1/2 flags appeared at games in 91 and 92.

    1. Mikeyfex

      ‘Just add a shorter bar to the end of each bar, perpendicular to the bar, thanks’

        1. Mikeyfex

          I like the new hair style though. Associating yourself with Sinead O’Connor can be a bit risqué but you pull it off.

  2. Punches Pilot

    If we’re gonna start going down that road then there’s a lot of flags that wont be flying very soon. As for the Red hand of Ulster argument, me thinks someone hasn’t fully done their homework on that one (read talking outta their ****)

    1. Yorick

      I think it’s pretty reasonable to object to the flippant flying of a flag that to many people represents racism and the fight to maintain slavery. Sure, the Red Hand flag means a lot of things. Not flying the swastika flag is a good analogy though.

  3. donkey_kong

    the confederate flag isn’t about racism. If we ignore the real history in favour of supposed history then anybody can get anything banned.

    1. Sadface

      Enlighten us as to how it isnt racist to fly a flag representing a Slavery loving army 150 years after they were defeated?

    2. Stewart Curry

      It was the battle flag of the Tennessee Army, fighting in a Civil War on the side that wanted to keep black people as slaves. It was then popularised by the KKK and similar groups. That sounds pretty racist to me.

      1. newsjustin

        Yeah, this vague notion that one hears about the flag being misunderstood or not meaning what we think it means…..I don’t buy it.

        It has no real tradition in Cork, it doesn’t need to be used, just leave it at home.

      2. donkey_kong

        they did want to keep slavery that is known.
        but as you can imagine people are rarely 1 dimensional. The war between north and south was over a few things not slavery alone (from my various readings) mostly it was economic.

        these boys seem to believe slavery wasnt even an issue

        The confederate flag isn’t about race, some people make think it to be – but that’s like saying a tricolour in the mid 1980s was a pro-IRA symbol.
        Perhaps for some it was…but for others it was not

        1. Someone

          Ya, that economic argument was that plantation owners were told they were going to have to pay a wage to their workers, so they got all up in a fit about how it would hurt their bottom line because they concentrated on agriculture, while the more enlightened north industrialised.

          So the economic reason for the US Civil war, was also about slavery.

        2. pedeyw

          Okay. It just represents the states who’s bottom line would have been effected by actually paying their slaves who weren’t thought of as actual people because they weren’t white. You’re right. Totally not about racism.

          1. Joe the Lion

            I’m sure that you are aware that even Lincoln did not want full freedom for slaves

        3. Stewart Curry

          Mississippi, in their secession from the union:
          “It has grown until it denies the right of property in slaves, and refuses protection to that right on the high seas, in the Territories, and wherever the government of the United States had jurisdiction.

          It refuses the admission of new slave States into the Union, and seeks to extinguish it by confining it within its present limits, denying the power of expansion.

          It has nullified the Fugitive Slave Law in almost every free State in the Union, and has utterly broken the compact which our fathers pledged their faith to maintain.
          It advocates negro equality, socially and politically, and promotes insurrection and incendiarism in our midst.”

          ” She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery– the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits– a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.”
          “They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.”

          ” For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.”

          Wanting to keep people as slaves because you think they are from an inferior race is racist.

          1. pedeyw

            Yeah, the two major arguments for the war not being about race are really stupid. The federal government over stretching their power (by banning slavery) and economics (they’d make less money if they had to pay people).

        4. Clampers Outside!

          “The confederate flag isn’t about race, some people make think it to be – but that’s like saying a tricolour in the mid 1980s was a pro-IRA symbol.
          Perhaps for some it was…but for others it was not”

          Jaysus Donkey! …what mad nonsense is that :)

    3. Formerly known as

      It was reflown in 1963, when the Federal Government was enforcing human rights for Black Americans. It is as racist as any symbol can be.

    4. pedeyw

      Donkey Kong can you inform us of the history of the flag? I seem to remember (forgive me if it wasn’t you) that the US civil war wasn’t about racism either.

        1. Odis

          As in different culture – different people – not the same thing. for one thing both cultures had more melanin in their skin.

    1. newsjustin

      In fairness, a black American woman living in Cork is pretty well placed to offer an opinion on the rights/wrongs of flying this flag in Cork.

    1. scottser

      flags are signifiers though. they all have meaning and it’s better that meaning is understood and contextualised than simply banning the sign itself. does anyone think that by banning a flag that attitudes towards race will change?

      1. Odis

        Well yes they do. And you know it stands to reason, that if you ban the confederate flag, that no more white racists will ever want to shoot up blacks, and everyone will live happily ever after.

        1. formerly known as

          Fair point. The NRA must be laughing, because the talk is about flags, rather than guns.

  4. Bejaziz

    Can we all calm down and stop whining about flags ffs, its pathetic! Who cares if someone wants to fly a flag, let them, It’s a free country (Or is it?)

    1. newsjustin

      Nobody ever mentioned not letting them. Some people have asked if they’d consider not doing it cos of, you know, the slavery and racism and what not.

  5. Mr. T.

    Oh spare me this white middle class self shaming.

    The same people calling for banning the confederate flag are ones who hate Travellers and don’t want them living anywhere near there perfect little house.

          1. Nigel

            It’s not a particularly difficult idea, and does not require much in the way of subtlety. What I don’t understand are objections to people pointing out that it’s a racist flag.

          2. Odis

            1) You didn’t answer my question about flegs Nige Don’t ignore it
            2) History is written by the victor, so we are told.And so it seems to be. How much more can we learn from history written by both sides.

          3. Nigel

            1. I’d answer it if I understood it.
            2. And who tells you that? The losers, usually. Curiously, the popular history of the Confederacy was effectively rewritten by the losers to the extent that people actually think they can credibly argue that the Confederate flag isn’t racist. Aphorisms about who writes history, on the other hand, are written by people who either don’t really have a point to make, or are defending the indefensible.

    1. newsjustin

      Where have you heard people asking for a flag to be banned?

      I’d encourage people to not bother flying it at Cork GAA matches.

    2. Nigel

      Absolutely. There’s no reason to go shaming people for flying a racist flag. Shame people for remarking that those idiots are flying racist flags instead.

  6. Gers

    Would have listened to more but I cant stand the radio presenter’s voice and tone, just horrible.

  7. Gav D

    Lighten up lads, its definitely not racist because blah blah cork blah blah peoples republic blah blah great bunch of lads blah blah Ted Crilly Definitely Not A Racist blah blah something to do with the dukes of hazzard?


  8. Geebag5

    Sure they’re only a bunch of Redneck Hicks from down south… As for the Confederates, I can’t say too much

  9. Bingo

    There’s hardly a flag on the planet that doesn’t offend someone.
    Having said that, time to ditch the confederate flag Langers.

    1. Bejaziz

      Exactly, the vast majority of flags have a history soaked in blood and in many cases slavery.

      1. Nigel

        Not THAT many of them specifically created to espouse the cause of slavery and racism, though, and then co-opted as a romantic symbol of rebellion, either out of ignorance, thoughtlessness, or racism. There really isn’t a whole lot else to that flag. People who use it deserve to get called on it.

  10. CousinJack

    What do the Duke boyz and Grandpa have to say about this.

    If daisy has confederate otpants I’m not complaining, y’all

  11. Gav D

    As an aside, I can’t find a single black person in the crowd photo there (possibly the fat lad in the top left corner, but he may have just been on holidays?). As I understand it from the previous fleg thread, that means so no-one there could possibly be offended. We’re in the clear lads!

  12. pedeyw

    Why exactly does cork fly it, anyway? This is all fairly new to me (ie. the last time BS brought it up) as I’m not a fan of sportsballs.

    1. jeremy kyle

      Probably something to do with Cork being the rebel county and the confederate flag is also known as the rebel flag,

      1. swoon

        Plus it has a bit of red in it.They’ll fly anything down there as long as it has a bit of red.

  13. Spaghetti Hoop

    US Civil War and racism aside, no, really, aside….why are the Corkonians flying the Confed. fleg anyway? I am guessing by the lad in the pic it’s because of this Republic of Cork nonsense and cessation dreams from the rest of the nation. I love Cork – it’s a fine city – unique, with loads to offer and tonnes of history and geography. Why the fencing up and the wish for autonomy? It was never in competition with Dublin. Any Cork heads here? Frilly?

    1. formerly known as @ireland. com

      Why: rebel county, mostly red, the south.

      Autonomy: This is a joke, that has got out hand.

  14. Chris

    Cork is built on a flood plain. The residents get dampness on their brains which dulls the mind. It’s not their fault really.

  15. Iarlaithe ó Tighearnaigh

    More oppression around the world under a union flag than a confederate. After all slavery took place IN THE USA, not by a section that wasn’t under the Control of the US. Plenty of the Klan wave the star n stripes and that’s just mentioning America’s role in slavery.

    1. Formerly known as

      Agreed. The Queen’s Nazi salute falls into a similar pattern. Her own country didn’t behave much differently to Nazi Germany, but that is glossed over, or ignored completely.

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