96 thoughts on “Won’t Tell You Twice

  1. shitferbrains

    Given that cycles are now almost silent, why isn’t there a bell, or some snazzy digital warning, when they’re creeping up behind you in parks or on footpaths ?

    1. bruce01

      Easier not to let pedestrians know you’re coming, they more often than not move into your path in that case.

    2. Sheila

      Good point.

      Although all bikes are sold with a bell, I think it’s a legal requirement. That said, they are pretty rubbish ding-ding-ding bells.

      1. James M.Chimney

        You what now? Nay bells on any of my beasties. Should I go back to the shops and demand some???

        1. Caroline

          Bus driver: What the hell was that bump?
          Passenger: Not sure. Did I hear… a bell? Kind of like a dinging sound?
          Bus driver: You hear all sorts.

      1. Clampers Outside!

        WHAT JESS SAID !

        ….I also have a bell for when approaching traffic lights while asspillows muffle into their phones as they step of the kerb into traffic…. the bell is sometimes followed by… OI, GET OFF THE PHONE ASSPILLOW!

        1. Drogg

          I am thinking of taking to WWF style slamming into the next cyclist that plans to break a red light at full tilt while i am crossing the road i think it is only fair.

    1. munkifisht

      Short answer, yes, you’re a pedestrian when you’re walking your bike. I always use it to my advantage.

    1. Mr. T.

      “Can’t you just give them false name and address”

      Well that would be breaking another law. You can just take your medicine, be a good citizen and pay the fine.

        1. Wayne.F

          Providing false name and address to a Garda is a crime Road traffic act 1967 section 107(3)

    2. ReproBertie

      Under Section 108 of the Road Traffic Act 1961 as amended, a member of An Garda Síochána may demand your name, address and date of birth if they suspect you have committed any crime or offence. They may also demand your name, address and date of birth if they suspect you have been involved in a collision or caused injury to property or someone else. If you fail to give your name, address or date of birth, or give a false name, address or date of birth, the Garda may retain your bicycle until they are satisfied as to your identity.

      http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/vehicle_standards/lighting_of_bicycles_in_ireland.html

      1. Bejayziz

        That doesnt answer the question of giving false details though, only relevant if you refuse to give any details

        1. ReproBertie

          It clearly says “give a false name, address or date of birth, the Garda may retain your bicycle until they are satisfied as to your identity.”

          1. ReproBertie

            You’re right. The gardaí who, on a daily basis, deal with people being dishonest, would have no clue that someone was lying to them. Most criminals in Ireland get away with it by saying “it wasn’t me” and the arresting gardaí take them at their word and send them on their way.

            Do you have any ID or bank cards in your wallet, pockets or handbag? “A garda can search you, without your consent, if the garda has reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence.”

            If the garda thinks you are lying they can keep your bike until you prove otherwise.

          2. ReproBertie

            Do you carry his wallet with you?

            By all means lie to the gardaí in the unlikely event that you get stopped for a cycling offence. The last thing we want in this country is people accepting responsibilty for their actions. Guilty people getting away with stuff is what made this country what it is today.

    3. 15 cents

      a guard was givin out to me years ago for pissin on the street, he asked for ID, i said i didnt have any and he said we’d be goin down to pearse st. to find out who i am, so then i ‘found’ my ID .. so i suppose theyd just do that to cyclists

  2. scundered

    The double School Wardens on Gardiner Street are a nightmare… I see cyclists regularly cycling through (understandably) when they both continue to stand in the road after the kids are already on the other side of the road, a bit of common sense from them would be great.

      1. scundered

        Maybe if you had a little more patience before replying you would have absorbed I was referring to other cyclists, not myself. When you have 2 people blocking traffic in the middle of the road for no reason during rush hour it’s pretty dumb.

    1. Martin Heavy-Guy

      I don’t mind the school wardens on Gardiner Street nearly as much as I mind the “cycle lane” that is ignored by drivers and cracked so badly I worry for my tires going down and up that awful stretch.

      1. Medium Sized C

        Where do you stand on it also being actual parking spaces?

        Crazy bit of road planning on that stretch.

        1. Martin Heavy-Guy

          That too, although it’s less of a problem on the terrifying downhill spin than on the terrifying uphill slog. The planning is horrendous.

  3. Liam from Lixnaw

    Why are “reflector”, “helmet” and “fluorescent clothing” listed in the diagram – failing to wear these two items is not an offence nor is not having reflectors

    1. scottser

      having reflectors on your wheels should always be accompanied by a lollipop stick against the spokes to make it sound like a motorbiike.

    2. ReproBertie

      “All bicycles used on public roads in Ireland must at all times display a rear reflector. A rear reflector means a red reflector that can be plainly seen for a distance of 99 meters (325 feet) to the rear when the headlights of a vehicle shine directly on it. The only exception to this rule is on a child’s bicycle where that bicycle is used during the daytime.”

      From the same link that I posted above.

      1. scundered

        At a guess I would say that most race bikes in cycling clubs wouldn’t have reflectors whatsoever, just a light front and back.

    3. PhilJo

      Because the RSA can’t take their campaigning hat off even when attempting to produce public information.

      There isn’t a single item in the graphic that attracts a FCN in daylight hours, the graphic and the text are practically orthogonal.

  4. Bruncvik

    I don’t have my own bike, but I use Dublin Bikes quite often. I know that places me on the very bottom of the cyclist totem pole. So when I stop at red lights even though there is no cross traffic, the cyclists on their own bikes let me hear it as they pass me into the intersection. Mark my words, fancy cyclists: one day I’ll look all smug on my Dublin Bike as I pass you when you pay the fine.

    1. ReproBertie

      Do people really give you comments for stopping at a red light? I’ve never had that happen to me and stopping at red lights is a regular occurence when I’m cycling.

      1. Martin Heavy-Guy

        Same, I’ve never had that happen to me, and I’ve never passed comment on anyone stopping unless they pull up to finish their journey on the side of the road with no signal or warning. Then they get an earful.

        1. Bruncvik

          It happens quite regularly along the Grand Canal. Especially after you pass Baggot Street on your way to the Docks.

      2. Ribeard

        I had another cyclist crash into me because he wasn’t expecting me to stop for the pedestrian crossing (which had been red for a good 5 seconds before I got to it). Wasted no time giving me a bollocking either! Prick.

    2. Gary Flood

      I’m a regular Dublin Bikes user, too, and I don’t break lights / cycle wrong way up bus lanes and one way streets, and I don’t wear headphones etc. etc. I’m always amazed that more of the Uber Cyclists aren’t creamed on a regular basis. A decent proportion of them really are the f**king idiots they habitually complain about themselves. I have a special place in Leitrim set aside for those couple of dicks who persist in flying hands-free down Leeson Street, texting while sporting the latest model of Beats clamped to their skulls ( which I hope are thick enough to withstand their inevitable encounter with the back of a 145 or a parked up delivery van). Now, where did I put those training wheels?

    3. Yea, Ok

      In my experience it’s Dublin bikes that whizz by my bike at lights most regularly. Very annoying when anyone does it, especially when I have to pass them again 50m on.

  5. Martin Heavy-Guy

    I wouldn’t mind this so much as people do cycle dangerously quite often in the city (myself sometimes included) but there are no provisions being made for increased safety for cyclists outside of them breaking laws.

    Where are the on-the-spot fines for taxi drivers pulling in in front of you, or for cars driving into cycle lanes, or for (the most grievous as far as I’m concerned, because I’ve been injured through this one) pedestrians walking onto the road when they have a red light and not looking out for cyclists?

    Dublin is a dangerous place to cycle even if you take all precautions: fines for cyclists won’t fix that.

    1. scundered

      I find the taxis ok, though bus drivers are a big problem driving very close behind cyclists and being generally aggressive, attempting dangerous overtaking and running cyclists into the kerb.

      1. 15 cents

        im not on a bike and i can see how dangerous the bus drivers are, totally agree with u.

    2. John

      I think that’s what people forget, its like going to battle sometimes on a bike in Dublin. Yo really have to have your wits about you. People have to get it clear that roads/transport links are for everyone and should not just be designed for motorists. When infrastructure is so poor for cyclists then you take risks which also means sometimes you have to break the law to survive. This is down to bad design, lack of funding and lack of concern rather than the cyclist themselves. The red light thing is a red herring for everyone to gang up on the minority of cyclists by the majority of motorists. Who cares if a cyclist breaks a red light, what harm are they doing. The real crime is having to negotiate many roads that are so unsafe for cyclists at the best of times and are absolutely 100% not safe for children at any time.

      1. 3stella

        “The red light thing is a red herring for everyone to gang up on the minority of cyclists by the majority of motorists.” Bullshit, the rules of the road apply to you and everyone else using that space.

        1. Martin Heavy-Guy

          I think you’re picking on a small point in what John said – even taking into account that yes, you should stop at a red light, doesn’t mean that it will make cycling safer. The condition of the roads and behaviour of drivers is a far bigger problem, and completely unaddressed.

          1. Martin Heavy-Guy

            I agree wholeheartedly. But the point that John has made is not about the danger of breaking red lights, but the general danger of being on the road in Dublin. The thrust is in the rest of the comment, although I think you’re proving his point about the red herring…

      2. 15 cents

        no one ever has to ‘break the law to survive’ .. if a part of the road is too difficult to navigate for whatever infrastructural flaw, get off the bike and walk it along the path til you’re in a better place.

        now .. breaking red lights. no harm? i can debunk that with a personal experience. i was crossing the road as i had the green man light clearing the way, i forgot to get something from the shop so i turned around, and as i did a cyclist who wasnt expecting me to turn around, smashed into me. . because he was breaking the red light. im a monster of a man so i was only a bit bruised, but if that was a small child they wouldve been wrecked. also, a lot of the time, the light goes green for pedestrians, and ur left standing there unable to cross coz all the bikes are whizzin past, ive missed lights because of that .. its just not tenable to keep all this up. so many people on bikes around the city all the time, there has to be rules.

        1. Martin Heavy-Guy

          “if a part of the road is too difficult to navigate for whatever infrastructural flaw, get off the bike and walk it along the path til you’re in a better place.” – that would be nearly all of Dublin in that case.

          Red lights: point taken and I agree here: I have seen cyclists do terribly stupid things. I have also seen (and once crashed into) pedestrians walking across when they have red lights. Back to my main point: The road is for all people, and everyone has to take care. But if you introduce a fine of €40 for cycling dangerously, then where is the clampdown on driving dangerously, or jaywalking, both of which are dangers to cyclists.

          I’m not arguing the red light point in any case, that’s John’s prerogative, I’m just trying to highlight that cyclist rules are not necessarily the only solution. I think John was just saying that with proper infrastructure there would be no need to go through a red light, because you would feel safe waiting for green (again, I am interpreting).

    3. Nessy

      You’re on the ball there about safety, ” fines for cyclists won’t fix that.”

      The manic driving by some road users (buses, taxis, trucks, parents etc) is unreal. I was once knocked off my bike by a Dublin Corporation van, he wasn’t looking where he was going when he was turning and ploughed straight into me and drove off. Nothing like a minor hit and run at 6am in the morning to start your working day. Similar thing happened with a taxi not paying attention to me in the cycle lane. He raced ahead of me to make a left turn and misjudged my/his position and speed. If it wasn’t for my experience and quick ability to manoeuvre the bike to a halt, I’d probably have been smeared all over the road in front and buried in a plot somewhere. There’s many roads with inadequate cycle lanes, many with none and too many roads where cyclists can simply not be allocated enough room to cycle safely (1.5m).

      If the government are to get serious about cycle safety, they need to start with the roads and paths that we’re cycling on and take note of other cycle friendly European cities, most notably in Scandinavia

      1. Martin Heavy-Guy

        Agreed. And Netherlands, Belgium. Cycle-traffic lights are a must, to allow cyclists a bit of time to get going without getting cut off.

        And snap re quick reactions, I’ve had more than a few close encounters, one almost identical to the one you mentioned with a taxi driver. And was 30m behind a poor lad who was hit by someone who pulled into the cycle lane on top of him, and then drove on (stopped about 100m up the road and roared something inaudible while standing at the door of her car). Too many of those stories and they’re not addressed. Think he was OK, he got back on the bike anyway.

  6. Dee

    Cycling to work this morning, I encountered 4 parked cars at various spots along the cycle lane, and 4 more pulled into the cycle lane for a bit of a ‘linger’ – one was a taxi. On each occasion I hand-signalled right to go around these stationary cars (checking with a quick glance first) and twice the motorist behind me hammered on the horn – just for pissing them off by having to leave the cycle lane, I was nowhere near them.
    This is the problem: it isn’t safe to stop behind a parked car in a cycle lane and wait to move out into a clear road, as that can cause a mess for other cyclists. Not to mention the Surprise! car doors opening without a cursory glance in the mirror.

    So where the hell are the on-the-spot fines for cars sitting in cycle lanes in rush hour? Some cyclists are maniacs, but cars are weapons, parked or moving.

  7. Clampers Outside!

    I can’t wait for some car to get in my way when this comes in. If I’m gonna be fined, I’ll be making sure those metal fupps stick to their rules.

    Yellow box by the Brazen Head, be warned !

    1. dhaughton99

      U-turning Taxis on Georges St. and auldwans selling toilet rolls in the bus lane on James’s St.

  8. Smashmouth

    ” On each occasion I hand-signalled right to go around these stationary cars (checking with a quick glance first) and twice the motorist behind me hammered on the horn ”

    The only reason a motorist could possibly beep at you for this is if

    1 – You hand signalled and pulled out too fast
    2 – The driver was a d1ck

    1. Guessing Second

      I’m sorry, the Rules Of Complaining About Road Users clearly state that the actions of the few define the reputation of the many. All drivers are dicks.

    2. Martin Heavy-Guy

      In fairness to point 1, any driver can see a parked car and a moving cyclist ahead and put 2+2 together. When I drive in the city its easy for me to see when a cyclist will have to move out so I dismiss this point.

      Point 2 is however valid.

    3. Dee

      Nah, really not too fast at all. I had time to look over my shoulder to check I wasn’t going to end up on a bonnet. So it must have just been dickery.

    1. 3stella

      Sooner the better this comes in, just met a cycling assehole who tried to cycle through five people on the path at speed on Clanbrassil street, no apology, and for his sake he’s lucky he didn’t stop.

    1. PST

      This is also my concern. It may be down to the mood of the Garda on the day. The other 6 rules are specific but this one is so broad is nearly makes the whole list pointless.

  9. Joe835

    As a regular cyclist around Dublin, I’m concerned at the graphic at the top, which at first glance makes it look like helmets, fluorescent clothing and all the jazz are mandatory and that failure to comply could land you with a fine.

    Plus “without reasonable consideration” is waaaay too open to interpretation. I cycle with earphones in; I can no more hear what’s happening around me than a motorist with the radio on. I know as an experienced cyclist that being able to hear around me makes virtually no difference to my safety or that of those around me; I’m constantly looking around me and always aware of what’s going on in my vicinity. But what if a guard decided that earphones in = “without reasonable consideration”? What proof would they need to convict me?

    As for helmets, the research always shows they make little difference to anything but minor accidents that amateur cyclists might be involved in – in other words, accidents that were probably not life-threatening in the first place (although they do help those engaging in professional activities at higher speeds). And making them mandatory does nothing but discourage cycling and is detrimental to public health at large; we have to avoid that at our peril.

    1. Anomanomanom

      Well you clearly are not a good cyclists. Ear phones in while cycling is not even close to listening to a radio. Having effectively plugged your ears you can hear nothing, not the same as a radio where you can still hear surrounding sound. And as for the helmet, you are talking utter nonsense. I cycle ever day and twice have been in accident, twice caused by cars clipping me. On one of those accidents, I went head first at speed on to the ground, I’m in no doubt the helmet prevented me cracking my skull open.

        1. Anomanomanom

          Your making assumptions about volume. Most people want to hear the music they have playing, so its safe to say its at a volume loud enough to hear clearly, add this to the fact the earphones are plugged directly into the ears. So in noway can you hear surrounding sounds clearly. And as for the helmet point, the information you provide makes no difference to me. The helmet I wore saved my life, regardless of why the car was aggressive.

        2. Anomanomanom

          Also i just read those “facts”. It’s some studies and newspaper article mixed in with opinions. Hardly facts that can’t be disputed.

        3. Gers

          Oh dear, it makes entertaining read but its tin foil hat stuff! on wearing helmets:
          “Head size is increased, making potential impacts with pavement more likely “

        4. Clampers Outside!

          OK, the ‘arguments’ rather than ‘facts’ for / against helmets.

          You can find the studies if you search online…. I thought that would suffice for here as this debate was done to death a few times…. and I got lazy :)

          My point there’s no conclusive evidence that helmets in the big picture protect heads, and I have read reports that say they can increase damage… Knock yourself out! :)

          Have a look here…. “A case-control study of the effectiveness of bicycle safety helmets – Thompson, Rivara & Thompson. New England Journal of Medicine 1989, Vol 320 No 21 p1361-7.”
          http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1068.html

    2. steve lane

      Sorry Joe, but if you think your “experience” makes up for abandoning the 2nd most important sense after sight while you are on your bike in town, you are very, very much mistaken.

      Unless you have eyes in the back of your head, you wont hear the silent cyclist or motorcylist coming up behind you, or the HGV crawling up behind you while you are stopped at the junction. Nor do you hear the car beside you on your right gearing down (as they prepare to turn left) – so you don’t get the early warning you need to avoid colliding with them when they cut you off.

      Im also a very experienced cyclist (200K every week around dublin & suburbs for the last 20 years). Its been my expeience that cyslists with headphones are not only a danger to themselves, they are also a danger to other cyclists, simply because they dont hear your warnings as you pass them so they regularly cut out in front of me.

      Wake up, smell the coffee and dump the earphones mate :)

      1. Clampers Outside!

        If you are not looking all around you and only looking straight ahead and relying on your ears you a far bigger danger to others on the road.

        What do you do if the car behind you is a quiet engined electric / a hybrid, eh?

        Are you going to ban deaf people from cycling?

        “….or the HGV crawling up behind you while you are stopped at the junction.” If you do not look behind you when pulling off from a stopped position as described, you’ll be dead in no time. Eyes are better than ears for road safety… my tuppence.

        1. Demon

          If you think earphones don’t have an effect, try *driving* with earphones in. The disorientation will show you that it’s not a sensible thing to wear them when cycling either.

    3. Clampers Outside!

      On the visibility issue – all you need are front and back lights, and not the helmet, hi-vis, etc. according to the poster… how I read it.

      Headphones – deaf people are allowed cycle. But, you should be continuously checking behind you anyway, if you’re not, you’re a danger to everyone else.
      Looking over your shoulder lets those behind you know that you know they are there. In my experience it stops bad drivers from trying to aggressively pass you. Or, get a mirror…

      Helmets – research is not definitive either way, good or bad, as to the protection of the cyclist.
      It has been proven to indirectly encourage aggressive passing by drivers. So, because of a lack of clear research as to benefit of helmets, I believe this is being left to the discretion of the cyclist. At least it would appear so from the poster, and there has been no law changes.

      My tuppence

      1. Martin Heavy-Guy

        Fair point made twice, I do agree that looking behind is more important, but still see no reason to dismiss the importance of hearing in any case. It can still mean the difference in a quick decision (for example, looking behind and not seeing a motorbike, which is perfectly feasible, but hearing it).

        But point taken and agreed, headphones are certainly not the biggest danger for individual cyclists. My feelings on helmet stand – I am sure I would be dead or in a coma without my helmet.

    4. Martin Heavy-Guy

      I’ll stick with unanimity: Cycling with earphones is definitely dangerous.

      But more to point 2, I had a bad spill off the bike in slippy weather January. My head hit the ground first (helmet on) and then my shoulder hit second. My head was fine. I broke my shoulder.

        1. Martin Heavy-Guy

          Not quite. If I get a minute I’ll draw a diagram: I rolled off my head so most of the impact was taken by the helmet, but it was a bad fall: I swung over the bars and flopped embarrassingly all over the place.

  10. Drogg

    Listen i have had many bad run in’s with cyclists but they are not all bad. There should just be one main rule for all road user including pedestrians which is “Don’t be a D***head” its fairly simple. Follow this one rule and we should all get along just fine and i shouldn’t have to completely lose my temper.

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