Taking From Source

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From left: Fine Gael Dublin South-West candidate Colm Brophy; Newstalk’s Shona Murray, Ivan Yates and Chris Donoghue; and Anti Austerity Alliance TD Paul Murphy on Newstalk

Fine Gael TD candidate for Dublin South-West Colm Brophy and Anti Austerity Alliance TD Paul Murphy, also from Dublin South-West spoke on Newstalk Breakfast this morning.

They were discussing Irish Water when presenter Chris Donoghue asked Mr Brophy for his opinion on attachment orders which would allow the State to deduct money from people’s welfare payments and pay packets in order to pay unpaid water charge bills.

Chris Donoghue: “Colm at the moment, Irish Water claims it’s 61%, Paul claims it’s lower than that – the compliance rate. The business model for Irish Water is based on 85% of people paying their bills, that’s not happening. Is it time, in your opinion, for attachment orders to welfare, or to wages, for people who don’t pay?”

Colm Brophy: “I tell you, yeah, what I’m, first of all, 61%, I think it should be full compliance and I think basically we have to reach a point where people need to understand that water is something that costs and therefore, if you don’t pay, there’ll have to be some method of getting that payment back.”

Talk over each other

Donoghue: “You’ve arrived at my question and the Government has deferred this decision. Should attachment orders be placed to welfare and wages of those who don’t pay?”

Brophy: “I believe everyone should pay and if they’re refusing to pay, there should be whatever means, including looking at that, as a means to…”

Listen back in full here

Pic: Newstalk Breakfast

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33 thoughts on “Taking From Source

      1. ahjayzis

        You know the collection of the water charge doesn’t cover the cost of collecting the water charge, right?

          1. bob

            I assume the cost of collection as been increased many times over by the number of people refusing to pay.

          2. Clampers Outside!

            I do Ahjaysiz. That’s because it will increase, by how much, and by how much for whom, has yet to be hammered out, I believe. Also, WHEN it is protected from privatisation through a referendum and it is run as a non-profit for the people we can be sure to keep costs down… at that point then when the whole system is running like clock work in 202? I expect we’ll start exporting water for civic profit.

            Oh look, a pig flew passed my window… on ho wait, it was an Amazon delivery drone carrying a pig. My bad… I’m optimistic :)

      2. Vote Rep #1

        We already for bus and train as well yet still have to pay for them. Zuppy has already said though that since he doesn’t get the bus or train, he doesn’t care about that. He doesn’t mind screwing the poor people who can’t afford cars if its something which suits him.

        1. Zuppy International

          Don’t twist my words or meaning: I wrote that I don’t pay for bus tickets. I made no reference to people who may or may not own cars.

          I’m not the one screwing the poor with double and triple taxation. I one of those shouting stop!

          According to the state’s own rules it is the people who are Sovereign, not it or it’s idiot officers. Yet the state and its puppets in the Royal Oireachtas are acting as outlaws, stealing from all of us and getting fat on the cream.

          We already pay. Not paying again.

          1. Vote Rep #1

            “Don’t twist my words or meaning: I wrote that I don’t pay for bus tickets. ”

            You said that you don’t pay for bus tickets so you didn’t care. Well done, you’re sorted, not your problem, screw everyone else. But you are being charged for IW so therefore so it suddenly a problem for you. “I one of those shouting stop!” Yeah, only when it affects you.

      3. Brian S

        Clampers, for someone who usually speaks a lot of sense, on here anyway, you really seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that hundreds of millions of euro of tax was wasted by local authorities over the last couple of decades. this money was supposed to be used to upgrade and provide water services. this was paid for by an increase in VAT and a % of motor tax was ring fenced.

        Now rather than take local authorities to task over this waste of money, the government decided to waste 10’s of millions more creating what in essence is a billing company, as they carry out no remedial or repair work themselves, they out source that back to the local authorities who failed to do it in the first place!

        This new billing company expects people to pay for the delivery of fresh, clean drinking water, which obviously doesn’t come for free. So I ask you clampers, where is is the 2% of your VAT now going? and where is the 6% of my motor tax, and 2% VAT going? i would wager its still being wasted, on paying off the bank guarantee, or propping up Irish Water, who cant even cover their own operating costs.

        I would happily pay a company to provide me with clean drinking water, i will not however do so when I am already paying for that service, twice.

        1. Clampers Outside!

          “tax was wasted by local authorities” – Past spending and wasted money is a problem everywhere on this island. I agree. One thing I’ll say on that, we won’t get that money back, and yes people / Councils need to be held accountable. But, that’s done, investigate, prosecute, whatever, that is not going to fix that current situation. It’s done.

          “vat” and “motor tax” – I’m no fan of the “trough” based tax collection system. I’m totally with you on that. I would hazard a guess that because of the trough based tax system (everything collected is pooled in a trough and divvied up) that that is a major contributor to wasted govt spending, and lack of accountability.

          IW should collect water rates for itself and should only be collecting from its users, not through motor tax or VAT.
          Does anyone know is funding for water still collected this way or have the VAT and motor tax just remained higher….

          Water needed to have a centralised control put in place for the very reason you pointed out… “millions of euro of tax was wasted by local authorities over the last couple of decades.” Were we to continue with council mismanagement for another few decades wasting more millions? No, I’m sure you are not saying that.

          Look, I don’t like IW either, but it is necessary. It’s management, charging, any profit, all dealings with large corporations, small businesses and households needs absolute transparency. And that’s what I want.

          I too “…would happily pay a company to provide me with clean drinking water, i will not however do so when I am already paying for that service, twice.”

          When I said lets jack up motor tax I was being facetious. We should only be paying once, and not to some overpaid managers in a “billing company”. We agree it appears on more than at first one might think.

          1. Brian S

            It would appear we agree on most of it Clampers. It’s a good question as to whether the VAT and motor tax is still being used, I would imagine so, as my motor tax hasnt gone down, and neither has the VAT.

            Unfortunately as is usually the case in this great little country, a simple enough thing like establishing a centralised utility management and billing company was completely and utterly mismanaged from the outset. It was filled with inept management who only got the positions through nepotism and cronyism. Until that whole issue is addressed i think IW is not fir for purpose. There is no transparency, no reporting of numbers, people given the run around and treated with contempt by IW and the govt alike when they ask difficult questions.

            I am still not prepared to pay a company like that any money, until some of the questions are answered.

      4. Sam

        How about if industry coughed up for using their water at a reasonable rate. Household use is about 13-15% of water consumption.
        Factories and others who are using money as an input for commercial use should be paying a sensible fee for the privilege, there’s enough of them dodging tax already.

        Households already pay for water through taxation and it’s not a commercial activity for family life.

          1. Vote Rep #1

            Water rates paid to the council were at a higher rate than the current household rate. I’ve no idea what larger companies pay.

          2. Sam

            Large companies, esp factories don’t pay by usage.
            I asked my local council about that. Yes, a factory does pay more than an average house, but they use a hell of a lot more water.

  1. phil

    Well I kinda suspected that , but Im glad Colm Brophy FG has made FG’s position clear before the election…

    However, someone should remind FG that the law of the land is for everyone , plenty of them try to remind us of that fact, so there must be plenty of white collar criminals wondering …. forget Irish water , how will this law be used in other circumstances , Tv license and such is easy, but what about bills from private companies , will spouse’s income be protected ?

    Also will it be retrospective ? because for an Irish water bill I guess the law has to be, and if so , can this be used to garnish ex-bankers pensions? Can it be used against the bankrupt ?

  2. Jake38

    If you don’t like the law then change it, by voting someone else in who will change it. Like the fraternal delegte from North Korea Paul Murphy or some other wingnut.

    1. ollie

      It isn’t legislation that you should pay for electricity and gas, what makes irish water any different?
      Making people pay for a utility is what facists would do.
      I’ve a better idea, why not legislate so that only qualified people can stand for election? Why should we pay an event manager to be a legislator?

      1. Rob_G

        You can cut off people’s electricity and gas in the event of non-payment; it has been decided, quite rightly, that you can’t cut off domestic users from the water supply.

        1. Kieran NYC

          Ollie never actually engages in discussion. He just throws out stupid and incorrect talking points and moves on.

    2. phil

      They are all wingnuts , I think you are just confused because most of them, have been Right wingnuts for far too long.

      When David threw the rock at Goliath, Im sure there were towns folk who hissed and muttered in a derisory tone, but the minute Goliath hit the ground those very people were probably backslapping David and positioning themselves for juicy jobs in the new regime …

    3. Sam

      Catch yerself on with your shallow version of democracy – if you don’t like something damaging, wait for 5 years to see if it gets changed. We’re not electing temporary kings here, we can tell them and show them when we’ve had enough crap.

      The facts on the ground change faster than governments do, things can be privatised much quicker than that, and how do you simply ‘reverse’ that? Costs a fortune.

  3. Wayne Carr

    Jack Lynch, and the lads in FF, got rid of water charges in the late 70s. And since then, everything Lynch gave us for free, has gradually been returned at the cost of the tax payer. Typical unsustainable politics from Fianna Fáil. Is it fair we pay for water? Of course.

    How and ever, what Irish Water has become is not fair. If “stability” means Irish Water, and an ineffective Dáil, I think I’ll take my vote elsewhere.

    But obviously I won’t vote for anyone left of Lucinda Creighton, because I’m far too clever to fall for that lefty, pinko, wingnut, claptrap! #IW32

  4. Anne

    Funny how all the tax reliefs, and over payment of tax (hundreds of millions btw) isn’t automatically given back to people (mortgage interest being the exception).. but they come up with ways to deduct money at source no bother.

    Hundreds of millions in overcharges in tax have to be claimed back… It’s a joke.

    Here’s just one example. Over 10 million euro overcharged in PRSI.
    http://www.thejournal.ie/more-than-e10million-collected-in-prsi-overcharge-341765-Jan2012/

    How much of that was claimed back? You can bet, not a fraction of it.
    They fupp up and I have to go filling out forms because of their incompetence.. great system isn’t it?

    By the way, I mentioned this error in PRSI calculations to a TD well before it was in the headlines. He didn’t really listen to me and said, well it’s only going to get worse. Niall Collins – the Ignoramous.

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