Boycotting For Ibrahim

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From top: Mary Manning on strike outside Dunnes on Henry Street on August 1, 1984; and Ibrahim Halawa

While doing my local weekly shop, I was extremely disappointed to notice that there is produce from Egypt on the supermarket shelves. I was immediately reminded of the stance taken by those brave supermarket workers who stood up to authority and who refused to handle imported goods from South Africa during the repressive apartheid regime.

I will not buy produce from a country that blatantly refuses to practise basic human rights so that a citizen of Ireland, Ibrahim Halawa, is not given due process of law and is languishing in jail this past three years. What kind of humanity allows this to continue?

I beg my fellow citizens to refuse to buy imported goods from Egypt so that by this gesture we may get justice for Ibrahim Halawa.

Siobhan Morgan,
Dublin 18.

Ibrahim Halawa (The Irish Times letters page)

Previously: The Dunnes Stores’ Strikers

Dear Ireland

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254 thoughts on “Boycotting For Ibrahim

  1. Cian

    What do we import from Egypt? I assume its a limited range of fruit and veg and possibly some textiles. Not really an industrial powerhouse these days.

  2. Andrew

    Should we boycott China as well? Lots of human rights abuse there. Or maybe boycott our own products?
    Ibrahim and his friends would take away your vote Siobhan and basic rights if he got the chance. With enablers like you, he might just get that chance some day.

    1. Dόn 'The Unstoppable Force' Pídgéόní

      I’ve never known a sensible Andrew. They are always hicks

    2. MoyestWithExcitement

      “Ibrahim and his friends would take away your vote Siobhan and basic rights if he got the chance.”

      Yeah! God damn Mulsamics.

    3. Kieran NYC

      “Don’t kid yourself Jimmy, if a cow ever got the chance, he’d kill you, and everyone you cared about!”

      1. Scooperman

        My lack of knowledge of Simpson’s quotes is one of my greatest shortcomings and biggest regrets in life

  3. munkifisht

    For the racists:

    1. Ibrahim was born in the Coombe Hospital in 1995 and went to school in Ballycullen. A normal Irish teenager, he played football and listened to music with his close group of friends

    2. His parents are Egyptian – and the Halawas have a large extended family still living in the country. They visit regularly in the summer

    3. After finishing his Leaving Cert, he travelled to Cairo in late June 2013 with his three sisters for their trip to see their family

    4. He wanted to go to Spain with his friends for a post-Leaving Cert holiday but eventually decided on the usual visit to Egypt to visit relatives

    5. They were almost two months in Egypt when they were caught up a protest against the President’s removal

    6. The Halawa family claim they took refuge in a mosque – where Cairo police claimed they were fired at – and along with his sisters, Ibrahim was arrested

    7. During the protests, 97 people died – and Amnesty International says most of these deaths were due to a “reckless use of force by the security forces”

    8. Despite his sisters being released in November 2013 and being able to travel back to Ireland, Halawa remains in his prison

    9. More than 400 of those arrested – including Halawa – have been charged with murder and attempted murder

    10. Along with 493 other people, Halawa has been awaiting trial for almost two and a half years – but it has been postponed 12 times so far

    11. If he is convicted, he could face the death penalty

    1. The Gawm

      HI Munkifisht

      To be clear – any questioning of the above 11 points makes one a racist? Are these the rules of the thread?

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        Questioning any of them without evidence suggests one is searching; that they are looking for something to confirm their suspicions, so probably, yeah.

      2. munkifisht

        Ask yourself, if Ibrahim was white would you be questioning? Next, are you questioning or accusing? And finally, if you are questioning are you trying to resolve those questions or just happy with the rhetorical assumption that because Ibrahim is Islamic and because he is not white then he must be somehow evil. If that is the case then yes, you are racist.

        1. The Gawm

          You don’t know my opinion, or whether I agree with, or care about any of James Mulhall’s 11 points.

          You didn’t answer the question. You just strawmanned all over the place.

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            He did answer the question actually. If anyone is going to question those points, they’ll be doing so for a reason. What possible reason would someone have to question the statement that the muslim irish fella is innocent and a normal bloke?

          2. WhiteKnight

            “What possible reason would someone have to question the statement that the muslim irish fella is innocent and a normal bloke?”

            Innocent normal Irish bloke addressing a crowd at a Muslim Brotherhood rally, yeah? Of course. Nothing unusual about that.

        2. Andrew

          are you campaigning for all the other Irish citizens locked up abroad?
          Should we send the army in?

          1. hex

            There are no other Irish citizens locked up for years without access to defence in a trial.

        3. rotide

          I’m sorry Munkifisht, but we ALL questioned Michaela TopBun when she claimed she was forced into drug muling. She’s as white as you get.

      3. Andrew

        I think so. I can do bullet points as well. Apparently that lends more weight.
        Ant more Simpsons allusions anyone. It’s hilarious I must say and diverts very well. Which is the point I suppose.

        1. Nigel

          Oh man, good one, you sure undermined his points by attacking his formatting and pop culture references! He’s truly diverting you with his bullet point formatting, yes he is!

    2. Maria

      Yawn, yawn, yawn…….. look up YOUTUBE and put Halawa name in …….. and don’t forget the emergency Irish Passport saga ……

      1. hex

        No saga. The Egyptian (military) authorities took Ibrahim’s passport, so another had to be issued to him.

        1. Maria

          What happened to he lost it? then he tore it up ? then someone stole it? There are so many stories out there that I almost forgot that he’s on Hunger Strike ……

    3. rotide

      You appear to have missed a few points off that list Munk.

      In the interests of balance like.

      1. hex

        Nice implication that there’s an ounce of evidence to suggest Ibrahim is culpable of any wrongdoing. There’s not. The interweb campaign of smear attempts against the guy is primarily about base bigotry. Lots of innuendo, but nothing more than hot air when it comes down to it.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          +1 The one about his sisters getting a video of him ripping up his irish passport deleted from youtube, and somehow the whole internet, is particularly hilarious. The people who don’t like him seem to be, to a man, stupendously….stupid.

        2. rotide

          I’m not saying he’s culpabale of any wrongdoing at all. I don’t know if he is or isn’t but Munktifish’s list implies that here was a family that got caught up in the protests and did all they could to extricate themselves from it which is clearly not the case.

          It’s fine if you want to make the case that on the back of what they witnessed they decided to take a stand and show solidarity with the protestors, but simply whitewashing that out of the narrative just shows bias.

          1. hex

            There’s no implication that the family sought to extricate themselves from the protests. Quite the contrary – they were very open at their active participation in the protests. You’re just making up more straw man arguments.

          2. hex

            And they obviously got caught up in the coup accidentally – they happened to be there at the time it (unexpectedly) happened.

          3. rotide

            Hex, there is no mention of that on the ‘Everything you need to know so as not to be racist’ list. Which is why I said that the list is incomplete. Nothing straw man about that.

          4. hex

            Yes there is – you’re claiming that “Munktifish’s list implies that here was a family that got caught up in the protests and did all they could to extricate themselves from it”. An entirely fabricated accusation.

          5. rotide

            No, I used that as an example. What I am saying is that at no point does Muk mention that the family TOOK PART in the protests.

            While not proving Ibrahim’s guilt or innocence either way, this is a salient point that should have been included.

            His post also implies, that even mentioning that he and his family took part in the protests makes one a racist, which it evidently does not.

          6. hex

            There’s no mention of lots of things – including the gunshot wound Ibrahim had, untreated. That doesn’t make the list any less salient. It certainly does not do what you claimed – “Munktifish’s list implies that here was a family that got caught up in the protests and did all they could to extricate themselves from it”. That’s the straw dog argument – devised by you alone.

    4. Ger Nalist

      “caught up in a protest” – your argument breaks down right there. He was nothing of the sort

  4. MoyestWithExcitement

    “What they said early on was ‘facts don’t work’ and that’s it. The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn’t work. You have got to connect with people emotionally. It’s the Trump success.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/leave-donor-plans-new-party-to-replace-ukip-without-farage

    Facts don’t matter for paranoid racists who have’t done much emotional development since they were toddlers. But good list.

      1. munkifisht

        Agree fully. I live in the UK and have witnessed this first hand. The far right is getting very close.

    1. Andrew

      Ooh another link to the Guardian. Is that the only paper some people read? I suppose it makes you feel validated, if it doesn’t necessarily inform you. It’s a joke of a publication and has been for about 15 years.

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        Ok. I’m just providing a quote from someone who influenced the brexit campaign strategy. Hopefully your irrelevant rant about the guardian makes you feel better.

  5. Sharon Reynolds

    I did the ‘Dab’ in solidarity for Ibrahim. Hell, I even did a little ‘slut drop’, wasn’t very impressive as me knees are knackered.

  6. Votey McVolteface

    Boycott Amnesty Ireland and Colm O’Gorman who have done jack to campain for him because he is muslim and not a Tá Equality and #repealthr8th portobello luvvie or card carrying member of the Irish Times muffia.

    1. hex

      Colm O’Gorman, and Amnesty in it’s broader sense, have been very active in campaigning for Ibrahim. Don’t know where you’ve been, to have missed that.

  7. ahjayzis

    I fear going down this road.

    We’ll all starve once we get to direct provision.

  8. Harry Molloy

    I don’t really like this lad and his family due to their conservative views and the direction in which they would like to see this world moving to.

    However, that doesn’t really matter, what does matter is that he is an Irish citizen who has been locked up for an number of years without trial. That goes against what we stand for and so it must be protested against, especially when it comes to one of our own citizens.

      1. munkifisht

        “His views” don’t matter. What matters is HE’S A F***ING IRISH CITIZEN and as an Irish citizen he is afforded the right to the utmost protection of the Irish state. Ireland actively protected and protested for the protection of terrorists. We do this because you have this right to protection regardless of your political stance. What don’t you get?

        1. Andrew

          What do you want the Irish government to do? Invade?
          Do you have any idea what they have been doing so far?

          1. D'El Boy

            He has a point. Gardai claimed not to know the Colmbia three were back in the jurisdiction after their visit to observe the local flora and fauna came to an end following Bertie’s intercession

        2. The Gawm

          Does this protection (rightly) afforded to Ibrahim trump the rights of other states to prosecute offenders against their laws? British drug dealers in Thailand. Northern Irish fools in Peru with six keys, etc. Do they go free on waving their passport?

          AFAICT the Irish govt have been very active in visiting him and lobbying for his release.

          None of the above is predicated on what I know of his views, how I feel about him, if I care he’s brown or a muslim. I hope I’ve conformed to your rules above and I can comment about this issue without being deemed a racist.

          #notaracist

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            “None of the above is predicated on what I know of his views”

            What do you “know” about his views then?

          2. The Gawm

            Moyest – I know as much about the chap as you do. I was asking a question “without evidence” as you said above. I hope that doesn’t make me a racist. I’ve said nothing racist about him.

          3. MoyestWithExcitement

            “I know as much about the chap as you do”

            I know he’s an Irish citizen who went to visit family members shortly before a military coup happened. But I asked you what you “know” about his views. Are you admitting you know nothing about his views?

          4. The Gawm

            Wow you really are obtuse. I don’t know the guy, I don’t know his views. Neither do you. I don’t presume to know either, and as such can’t be baited by you into offering any view, that you can dismiss without evidence.

            We can agree on some of the facts in the Munkifisht Racist List. I’m not disputing any of them here. I still have not had any answer as to whether him having Irish passport(s) gives him free reign to offend in other countries.

            DFA has done a lot more for this guy than they have for other people abroad in similar situations.

          5. hex

            There isn’t any Irish citizen in remotely the same situation, so I’m not sure how you figure that.

          6. MoyestWithExcitement

            “I don’t know his views.”

            So what reason do you have to question anything about him?

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          Huh? You know something about his views but it’s nobody elses business? Jayzus, I’ve not heard an argument like that since I was in primary school.

          1. Harry Molloy

            there’s an perfect example you being completely unwilling in having an discussion with anyone, it’s always argument and ridicule. Every single time, not one ounce of joy in you.
            But we love you for it.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            What the hell are you talking about? You claimed to know his views. I asked you what they were. You told me it’s none of my business and *I’m* the one not engaging in discussion. That is just amazing. This place is honestly like a human zoo.

          3. Harry Molloy

            not getting your way lately?

            at least we are agreed he deserves the consular assistance yeah?

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            Okey doke. You said you knew his views. You were asked politely what they were. Are you going to engage in discussion like a grown up or continue your tantrum? Either works for me. It’s obvious you were lying about knowing his views and you’re trying to divert attention from that with your clown act.

        2. The Gawm

          My business is importing dates, honey, novelty miniature pyramids and halloween mummy costumes. If Siobhan gets her way I’m utterly focked, goys.

      2. Sido

        It was in the news at the time Moyest – He was involved (according to the Egyptian regime) in an attempt to start a coup led by the Muslim brotherhood. An organisation of which his father is a prominent member. Look it up.
        If you are worried that doing so will make you a racist, remember its OK to do so because the Egyptian regime are also muslims – so hey its legitimate to form an opinion even using your twisted special snowflake rationale. So feel free to think this one out. – Are you seriously trying to suggest an Irish passport should give one carté blanche to campaign against a Middle Eastern regime – if so why do you think this should be the case?

        1. hex

          There was only one coup – the one by the military who have kept the lad in prison without trial for years. Ibrahim was supporting the democratically elected government of the day in Egypt. How precisely does a government plot a coup against itself? And there’s no evidence whatsoever that his da is a member, let alone a prominent member, of the Muslim Brotherhood. Maybe he is, and maybe he isn’t, but he’s most definitely not ‘prominent’.
          The passport doesn’t entitle anything more than the protection of this state, which also includes ensuring its citizens a right to access to defend oneself in a court of law.

          1. Sido

            Yeah – I think he’s probably being held hostage by the Egyptian regime to keep the old man in tow. As for his passport ensuring a fair trial – I disagree – clearly this isn’t the case in Egypt. Owning an Irish passport entitles you to nothing there because its not Ireland. Its a theory and practice thing.

            Bad things happen. The current “secular” Islamic regime in Egypt is probably a lot more pleasant (in my completely subjective view) than one working under the beliefs of the Muslim brotherhood.

            Hence – I won’t be boycotting Egyptian goods

          2. hex

            That’s an interesting theory regarding Ibrahim’s da. Unfortunately it doesn’t hold any water. His da holds no sway over anything in Egypt, and he has demonstrated no evidence of being ‘in tow’ with the regime. The family have been pretty consistent in their denunciation of the actions of the regime for years now, and that doesn’t look like changing.

          3. Sido

            Indeed hex, the tune changes every time this one comes up on Broadsheet as do the names of commenters like you btw.

      3. The Gawm

        Moyest – I haven’t questioned anything about *him* – just whether his passport is a get out a jail free card. Please try reading before responding.

        You don’t know his views. You cannot know his views. He may have changed his views, given that he’s been inside for a few years without charge. By the same token, why do you defend him if you know nothing about him?

        I’ve not stated how I feel about him either way, yet you feel you know my opinion is already set, and that I’m on “the other side”. Absolutely no nuance from you, you seem incapable of it.

        It seems you are presuming in the same fashion that you brand ‘racist’ in others.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          “just whether his passport is a get out a jail free card.”

          You initially advocated for the ‘questioning Halawa isn’t racist’ bunch of clowns. So, if you are representing that view, what reasons are there to question anything on that list?

          “By the same token, why do you defend him if you know nothing about him?”

          As a member of a civilised society, I believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty. If there is no evidence to doubt the statement he is innocent then there’s no reason to doubt his innocence. Why would you question Halawa without evidence? What possible reasons are there to do that without evidence other than ‘Muslim = possible terrorist/authoritarian’?

          “I’ve not stated how I feel about him either way, yet you feel you know my opinion is already set”

          Again, what possible reason could you have to doubt his innocence without any evidence? Hmmm?

          “It seems you are presuming in the same fashion that you brand ‘racist’ in others.”

          ‘See? See? You’re as bad as me.’ Sorry, fella. Doesn’t work.

          1. The Gawm

            I never advocated for any ‘crowd’. It’s all in your mind. I never doubted his innocence. That’s all in your mind.

            Try having a nuanced debate like the others are trying to have here, you might find it edifying, and a healthy alternative to whatever tack you are taking at present.

            I never offered any opinion either way. In a similar way, you never offer any substance to your replies.

            For someone who believes in “innocent until proven guilty”, you’re quite adept at calling people “racist” if they don’t adhere to your world view. For what it’s worth, in my words above, I haven’t given you evidence of my world view either way, yet you freely call me & others racist or insinuate same.

            Hmmmm….

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            “I never doubted his innocence.”

            Oh. So you agree that people questioning his innocence with no evidence have….”dubious” motivations? Good lad.

            “and a healthy alternative to whatever tack you are taking at present.”

            Nah. I’m not going to validate racism by giving it respect. Stupid arguments/positions/opinions like yours, should be laughed at.

            “I never offered any opinion either way.”

            So what *have* you done then? What has been the point of your incoherent drivel?

  9. phil

    An Italian friend of mine was walking home from school one afternoon in Genoa Italy, there was some sort of Anti-Capitalism demonstration happening, he was curious and went for a look, made his way to the front where he saw a group of young lads throwing molotov cocktails at the police, he got excited and somehow got his hands on one and threw it at the police, he was shortly arrested and served community service. He freely admits he was stupid, had no understanding what the demo was about , the Italian justice system didnt hang him. He is a law abiding lad now, quite a good SW engineer….

    young people do stupid crap all the time…

    1. topsy

      Phil, give us all a break. Firstly your story is most likely a porkies. This gent flew to his home country to join a violent protest, burned his Irish passport, ranted against the government from a platform. He deserves everything he gets

      1. shitferbrains

        He did all that. True. But he also deserves a trial , whereas he can’t even get a trial date that’s adhered to.

      2. hex

        This gent flew to Egypt on a family holiday, and subsequently found himself in the middle of a military coup, and opted to protest (without violence) for the elected government of the day. He didn’t burn his passport – it was taken from him after he was arrested. I’m not sure what you deserve for managing to get so much, so wrong, but I’d guess… pity?

        1. topsy

          hex. lie to all of your assertions. Hopefully the Egyptian justice will hand down a deserved verdict in good time. Meanwhile he should reflect on his support for an organisation which is an anathema to all that is accepted in Western society.

          1. WhiteKnight

            “Hopefully the Egyptian justice will hand down a deserved verdict in good time”

            No rush.

          2. hex

            Keep getting to wrong topsy. Consistently has it’s admirers, regardless of accuracy.I guess.

          3. Nigel

            I wonder if you’d trust yourself to Egyptian justice as it is currently being exercised?

    2. Sido

      Yeah when I was a kid – I used to regularly throw molotov cocktails at the police. Maybe it was teenage hormones or perhaps youthful exuberance but I grew out of it.

  10. MoyestWithExcitement

    Threads like this are great. It’s good to get a handle on who the hilariously fragile racists are around here.

    1. Yep

      Moyest, you really are the worst. See how hex is discussing the issue? Sticking to the subject, refuting claims and willing to discuss with people and counter points.

      You come across as beyond objectivity and show very little knowledge on the many different issues you comment on.

      Your go to of calling people racist is infuriating to read as a life long leftie. You are just embarrassing…

        1. Sido

          No actually Moyest – I care.
          When you can’t debate any issue you stoop to insulting people. In fact most of the time you just stoop to insulting people anyway.
          This is because you are thick and completely incapable of addressing an argument.
          You can’t reason – therefore you insult. A sort of conditioned reflex.

          It’s not that I’ve got anything against you, its just that it lowers the tone of debate on Broadsheet. Which used to be quite good a while back incidentally.

          1. Yep

            ” its just that it lowers the tone of debate on Broadsheet. Which used to be quite good a while back incidentally.”

            Exactly. I don’t think we are the only ones who think it. I would guess many on the side you think you represent are tired of your s**t too.

          2. WhiteKnight

            Nail on the head, Sido.

            “This is because you are thick and completely incapable of addressing an argument.
            You can’t reason – therefore you insult. A sort of conditioned reflex.”

            Precisely.

          3. Sido

            You should care though Moyest. You should care about being perceived as thick and incapable of addressing an argument.

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            You should start a petition. Clearly this internet message board is very important to you and that is not at all hilarious.

          5. MoyestWithExcitement

            Sido. I’ve no idea who you are but we should talk more. Low intelligence, fragile egos like yourself who think their posts anonymous posts on the internet are important are lots of fun.

          6. Yep

            @ Moyest

            Nobody knows who anyone is. Anyone can use as many accounts as they want. They can try copy others and mess around that way…That is the point. You have to pay attention to the WORDS. I have read plenty of your posts and agreed with them and they helped general debate. Threads like this though you just stunt discussions. Everyone is a racist….It just seems idiotic…Wait are you dav too?

            I have no shame in saying I have been informed by many people over the years in this comment section. It tended to be open, honest and filled with people at least trying to sound informed while sharing information.

            This is just a soft plea to stop destroying comment threads between people who are engaging in conversation. You just rile people up or makes others stop posting.

            Ye feel me brah?

          7. MoyestWithExcitement

            Nope. You can stroke the racists’ ego all you like. I prefer to ridicule them. Don’t like my posts? Don’t read them. Your sense of entitlement though…jayzus.

          8. Sido

            Errmm – The problem with that tack Moyest is you are suggesting you are a devil may care troll. Who’s views count for very little.
            And whilst its certainly the case that your views count for very little – I believe you to be reasonably sincere in them. As you spend a lot of time on here knocking them out and accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being either racist or bigoted.

            I suppose everyone should have a hobby, in that case.

          9. Yep

            “Your sense of entitlement though”

            Well that made me giggle. Fair enough. Do your thing. If you enjoy going after “racists” and “bigots” though you should visit the journal articles about the lad. It could really do with a hero such as yourself….It’s gotten dark…

            Have a good weekend!!!! xoxoxoxox

          10. MoyestWithExcitement

            Nah, this place will do. Good attempt at “saving” Broadsheet though. Very important work you’re doing. Have a nice evening, dear. Try not to talk to too many people when you’re out though. It’s too risky for a delicate little flower like yourself.

    2. Andrew

      Are you taking names? People of your ilk like to do that. Views not in keeping with party policy must be removed from people’s heads. Re-education camps maybe?

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        *applause* Best one yet. Yes, mate. There’s a secret leftie/liberal/communist/unicorn agency rounding up all you heroic raci….common sense law abiding folks who are just telling it like it is.

    3. wellOwen O'F

      How Modest manages to combine holding down a paying job with the relentless sh*tposting is beyond me. Come to think of it, I want that job. Any hints, Modest? Some sort of on-call rotation I’m guessing?

  11. John M

    Anyone tearing up their Irish passport deserves no support from any Irish person, ever.

    1. hex

      Anyone buying into fabricated stories about burned passports is, frankly, just gullible, and either a bigot, or a stooge of bigots.

      1. Andrew

        I agree. Buying in to fabricated stories are gullible. The story wasn’t fabricated though

  12. h

    A boycott of goods is a good idea, but we could start by suspending the trade deal we signed with Egypt last February – 922 days into Ibrahim Halawa’s incarceration. [http://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/ireland-reaches-new-cattle-export-deal-with-egypt-1.2535954]

    It’s truly beyond belief that the negotiations on this deal weren’t used as leverage to secure his release, but there are no indications that they were. Instead we have 22 pieces of correspondence between the DFA and the Egyptians about Ibrahim Halawa since the beginning of 2015, even as he’s tortured regularly in prison. That’s real effort for ya. All. The. Stops.

    1. h

      The deal is still in place, even if the Egyptians aren’t using it for now. Suspending it, and stating publicly that we’re suspending it pending the release of an Irish citizen who has been detained for three years without trial, on trumped up charges, while being horribly mistreated, would send a better message than leaving it there to be used when and if prices fall. We should be using any and all leverage we have.

      1. hex

        Perhaps. But I suspect closing down an unused, and so far worthless, trade option would be less compelling the actually impacting an active trade option.

          1. h

            First, I’d say: both would be valuable.

            Second, I’d say that the value of suspending a trade deal is that it sends a message that the State is – publicly – putting Egypt on notice that what it’s doing will have, as Julia Bishop said in regard to Peter Greste’s imprisonment, ‘ramifications’ for inter-state relations. Palestinian activists have made the point in the past that while the BDS movement is incredibly valuable, to the extent that it’s a citizen-initiated and enacted strategy, it can, to a degree, be swatted away (up to the point where it starts pinching the economy, obviously). Actions by a state – whether it’s trade deals or boycotting – have a diplomatic as well as an economic effect, and that’s what we’re talking about here. So long as we’re seeking out new business with Egypt, they know that we’re not really *that* cross with them about Ibrahim Halawa, and there are no real ramifications. And there’s the fact that it must be a fairly bitter pill for Ibrahim Halawa’s family that while the Irish Government talks out of one side of its mouth about how dreadful it all is, and how they’re doing everything in their power to get him released, the other side of the mouth is signing a trade deal with the state that has him incarcerated on the basis of the most questionable charges and in the most unspeakable conditions. Suspension would show that the Government is p**sed off, not just us plebian citizens. It’d also show they give a bit of a genuine fook.

  13. WhiteKnight

    I hope he’s learned his lesson. He won’t be wandering up onto any more stages and addressing crowds at Muslim Brotherhood rallies in future, will he?
    The absolute eejit.

          1. MoyestWithExcitement

            The goverment being democratically elected and overthrown by the army. But no. He’s Muslim so ‘grrr sharia grrr jihad’

          2. hex

            Nope – the government was a coalition. The Freedom and Justice Party (the MB political party) held 12 out of 35 ministerial positions under Morsi’s presidency, and the government was subject to a parliament that rejected some of it’s policies.

    1. hex

      Nice to know there’s still advocates for totalitarian juntas in the face of namely pamby supposed ‘rights’ to peaceful protest in defence of democratically elected parliaments.

          1. Sido

            Acquiescence?
            No I stated that that totalitarian regimes exist. Clearly they do. Do you deny they exist?
            And if you accept that that totalitarian regimes exist – does that mean you also by default acquiesce to them?

          2. hex

            “That’s all there is to it”?
            No its not actually. Unless you’re a fan of said totalitarianism, or acquiescence to said totalitarianism.

          3. Sido

            So if I accept the existence of something – I am a fan of it?
            Is this you reasoning Hex?

            I accept that nuclear weapons exist – therefore I am a fan of them?

            Is it an education thing with you?

          4. Sido

            OK this is probably wasted on you
            Consider, Tony Blair did not like the totalitarian regime of Saddam Hussien. In fact he was definitely not “a fan”.
            As a consequence, he decided to do something about it along with his m8 G.W. Bush.
            The fact that neither of these fellows were fans of Saddam’s regime, and decided to not “aquiese” to them meant that a lot of people got killed and maimed. And the world is probably an unhappier place

            Or a relativley happier place if you happen to believe Tony

          5. Nigel

            There’s a lot of bloody water between invading a country and setting off a disastrous shockwave of destabisation and radicalisation, and attending a pro-democracy rally. And yet only one of them is in prison.

          6. Sido

            Nigel – good weekend m8. Yes, but pro democracy rally, seriously? Do your spade work on the Muslim Brotherhood. Its in wikipedia FFS

            As for the poor lad in jail – that’s the system. And you’re the lawyer.

          7. Nigel

            You too, Sido.
            And I believe it is the system that is being objected to. I mean, fundamentally, it’s not about whatever the guy is supposed to be guilty of, it’s a laughably politicised and unfair system of justice being applied to an Irish citizen. We very much want our government to stand up for its citizens in such circumstances. You don’t need to be a lawyer to understand that.If it was the MB in charge subjecting an Irish citizen to similar treatment, the response would need to be the same. There’s little enough we can do to help people trapped in that kind of nightmare, we should at least try what we can.

      1. MoyestWithExcitement

        +1 I fupping love watching pseudo intellectuals contradict themselves and then start whining when people point out the stupidly of their “opinions”. ‘Waahh. I’m special. I said a thing and I’m smart so you should respect my opinion even though it’s intellectually offensive.’ Absolute bunch of children.

        1. Sido

          Pseudo intellectuals, now there’s a rave from the grave, and one of my fave twentieth century insults. Does this mean you’ve given up on the more contemporary, racist n’ bigot theme for like the next ten minutes.

      2. WhiteKnight

        Nice to know there are still barely functioning arsehats who conflate criticism of MB and their ilk with supporting totalitarian juntas.

        1. MoyestWithExcitement

          Logic fail. He’d talking about your support for a military junta’s treatment of Halawa. Good GOD you are one embarassing little dimwit.

          1. WhiteKnight

            Oh? But that’s not what he said at all Moyest.
            Some reading lessons might do you the world of good. Try to fit them in between your bouts of howling about racists. Once a week or so, perhaps.

          2. MoyestWithExcitement

            It is, buddy.

            “WhiteKnight
            July 8, 2016 at 6:13 pm
            “Hopefully the Egyptian justice will hand down a deserved verdict in good time”

            No rush.”

            Did you already forget you wrote that? It’s no coincidence you racists tend to be exceptionally stupid.

          3. WhiteKnight

            Amazing.. AMAZING.

            How could he have been accusing me of supporting the junta if the post you just quoted WAS POSTED AFTER HIS????
            You utter, utter person of limited intelligence.
            I don’t even have to try to catch you out here, as you’re doing all my work for me!

            But go howl “racist” some more. At those bad people on the internet.
            Grrr… So many racisms. Grrr….

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            Cause he wasn’t talking about you specifically when he said that you complete plank You just conveniently proved him right shortly after. I fupping love you. Please stay on broadsheet for a while.

          5. WhiteKnight

            “Cause he wasn’t talking about you specifically when he said that you complete plank”

            Even better!!
            He replied directly to me, you simpleton.
            Nice attempt at backpedalling, though. You stung yourself badly mate. This is gold!

            “I fupping love you. Please stay on broadsheet for a while.”

            Oh I’m not going anywhere, broseph. I haven’t nearly had my fill of watching you flounder and tie yourself up in knots while desperately howling “racist” at those bad internet people.

            GRRRRR!!! Look at all those racists!! Being racist!

          6. WhiteKnight

            “Cause he wasn’t talking about you specifically when he said that you complete plank”

            But:
            “He’d talking about your support for a military junta’s treatment of Halawa.”

            Ah lad..
            This is actually embarrassing..
            You poor, poor sod.

          7. MoyestWithExcitement

            You’re not leaving? Beautiful. You fragile little simpletons do provide us all with a healthy dose of schadenfreude. So, he was right about your support for the military junta but he’s wrong somehow. It’s lucky you’re reading this on your computer screen and can’t see anyone laughing at you. I can’t wait to see what you do next in your honorable fight against your leftie/sjw/pinko oppressors you fupping student. I think I’ll cancel my netflix if you’re going to hang around.

          8. WhiteKnight

            Oh no lad, the amusement is all mine, I assure you.

            “So, he was right about your support for the military junta”

            Oh, no. You see, he wasn’t. I don’t support any military juntas.
            It’s just a wacky conclusion that you jumped to in your fugue of righteous howling.

            Student?!
            Yeah, I totally and completely understand why you’d think that’s an insult!

          9. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Oh no lad, the amusement is all mine, I assure you.”

            Translation ‘I know you are, but what am I?’ Brilliant.

            “Oh, no. You see, he wasn’t.”

            Ah he was, yeah. Sure you proved him right with your ‘no rush’ comment. That’s why this exchange is so funny.

            “Yeah, I totally and completely understand why you’d think that’s an insult!”

            Well, you’re hilariously dim, so i doubt it. It’s about your impotemt rage, junior.

          10. WhiteKnight

            “Translation ‘I know you are, but what am I?’ Brilliant.”

            Anything more complex and you’d blow a fuse, I’m certain.
            Not that this hasn’t been highly amusing, however. So there is that.

            “Ah he was, yeah. Sure you proved him right with your ‘no rush’ comment. That’s why this exchange is so funny.”

            How did I prove it exactly?!
            In what way do I support juntas?!
            I don’t, of course. And you know this. But I’d love to watch you get all flustered and tied up trying to explain how it is that I do.
            So the floor is yours! Go for it!
            This is gonna be gold! Pound that keyboard! Pretend it’s a racist too!

            “Well, you’re hilariously dim, so i doubt it. It’s about your impotemt rage, junior.”

            Classic!
            “Hilariously dim” being especially ironic considering you base accusations off posts that had yet to happen
            And “impotent rage” from broadsheet’s resident howling simpleton.

            Keep it up lad. This is better than that Netflix that you absolutely don’t have!

          11. MoyestWithExcitement

            Holy Jayzus. You’re a properly unhinged lunatic, aren’t you. I mean, I’d claim I’ve broken you but you’re clearly already emotionally unstable. That’s fine though. Nothing to be ashamed of, but when you froth at the mouth like that, you have to accept people are going to laugh at you. You’ll learn how the world works when you get a job and move out to your own place. Until then, please continue to embarrass yourself for everyone’s amusement.

          12. WhiteKnight

            Exactly, Moyest.. Exactly.
            So you can’t prove that I support juntas, but you’re just going to post some go-to ad homs instead, cos that’s all you have.

            What an absolutely mindless, howling, loser.

            But at least an entertaining one!

          13. MoyestWithExcitement

            “WhiteKnight
            July 8, 2016 at 6:13 pm
            “Hopefully the Egyptian justice will hand down a deserved verdict in good time”

            No rush.”

            Have a good weekend. We’ll speak on Monday. You absolute cartoon. You’re going to give us all a lot of entertainment.

          14. WhiteKnight

            Fantastic.
            Not giving a fig about Halawa’s predicament doesn’t mean I support a junta.

            Do you actually understand this?

            Yes/No?

            Oh you’ll be back sooner than Monday lad ;)

          15. WhiteKnight

            “This is because you are thick and completely incapable of addressing an argument.
            You can’t reason – therefore you insult. A sort of conditioned reflex.”

            -Sido, yesterday.

            And you’ve done an extraordinary job of proving his point.

          16. MoyestWithExcitement

            Heyyyyya. Still here? Lovely. What would you like to talk about you derranged buffoon?

          17. MoyestWithExcitement

            Will we talk about your support for foreign juntas locking up Irish citizens because they’re Muslim? Your mates in stormfront or whstever those losers are called?

          18. WhiteKnight

            Heyyyyy you’re still here too?!
            Of course you are! Like I knew you would be!

            Locked up because he’s a muslim?! This is a new development! One entirely of your own invention! Can’t wait till you start blaming the lizard-people.

            And I still don’t support juntas! And you still know this!
            But you’re still howling it!

          19. MoyestWithExcitement

            Yeah, I’m on the Internet most days, kid. You know they have it on computers now? So you *don’t* want to talk about your support for military juntas locking up Irish Muslims for 3 years without trial then? Ok, fella. I know how hard it is for you to think so I won’t push you. Stupid people like yourself need our help, not mockery. Although the mockery is fun. You probably shouldn’t publicly call for military juntas who’ve locked up Irish citizens for 3 years without trial to take their time making a decision about him if you don’t want people to talk about your support for military juntas though. Just sayin. You’re clearly a delicate little flower so that’s just some friendly advice on how to avoid future stress. What will we talk about instead? Are you and your stormfront buddies getting up to anything fun this weekend?

          20. WhiteKnight

            Where did I say I supported military juntas though?

            “You probably shouldn’t publicly call for military juntas who’ve locked up Irish citizens for 3 years without trial to take their time making a decision about him if you don’t want people to talk about your support for military juntas though.”

            I probably shouldn’t assume that cretins like yourself are capable of reading!

            I know it’s hard to separate reality from that impotent rage swirling around in your little noggin. Just because you assume everyone is a racist, junta supporting stormfront member doesn’t actually make it so.
            But sure you need your outlet. And it’s a good job this outlet is available online, as there’s no way you’d actually have the guts to talk like this in public.
            Cos being in public means being surrounded by racists… Grrr.

          21. MoyestWithExcitement

            “as there’s no way you’d actually have the guts to talk like this in public.”

            Brilliant. You’re an internet tough guy. Of course you are. I didn’t think I’d get to you that much. Thank you for inflating my ego even further. You’re a right angry little loser, aren”t you sport. I’m genuinely curious as to how long I can keep making you dance like this.

          22. WhiteKnight

            No, no! You misunderstood!
            It’s *you* who is the internet tough guy!

            But it’s ok.. You’ve shown them. You’ve shown all those bold “racists”. Not with intelligence or better arguments, but by merely howling “racist” at them.

            Any closer to finding that elusive quote of mine where I said I supported juntas btw?
            It’s ok. Take your time. I’ll wait! Maybe your anger will dissipate and you’ll realise you’re imagining the whole thing :)
            Cos I don’t support any juntas :D

          23. MoyestWithExcitement

            “No, no! You misunderstood!
            It’s *you* who is the internet tough guy!”

            No, I know YOU are but what am I?

            “Any closer to finding that elusive quote of mine where I said I supported juntas btw?”

            Yep.

            “WhiteKnight
            July 8, 2016 at 6:13 pm
            “Hopefully the Egyptian justice will hand down a deserved verdict in good time”

            No rush.”

            I’ll post it as many times as you like, kid. Keep fighting the good fight! With each internet post, you’re saving Ireland from 1 big scary Muslim coming into the country! You hero!

          24. WhiteKnight

            “No, I know YOU are but what am I?”

            A seething, rage-filled internet tough guy :)

            “I’ll post it as many times as you like, kid. Keep fighting the good fight! With each internet post, you’re saving Ireland from 1 big scary Muslim coming into the country! You hero!”

            Cool! Keep posting it if you think that means I support juntas! Which it doesn’t, of course! :D But it’s important to you, obviously. And it seems to be keeping you away from real-life interactions so I guess that’s a good thing. For everyone!

            And for the record, I have zero problem whatsoever with muslims immigrating to Ireland :) They’re more than welcome!

          25. MoyestWithExcitement

            Yeah, ok.

            “WhiteKnight
            July 8, 2016 at 6:13 pm
            “Hopefully the Egyptian justice will hand down a deserved verdict in good time”

            No rush.”

            Sooo….you support the military junta doing military junta things but you don’t support Muslims. Alright then, you adorable little moron. It’s a good thing you’re a shut in. Too many scary brown people outside your door. But you keep fighting against them on the Internet. Everyone needs a purpose I guess. We’re all grateful to you.

          26. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Sooo….you support the military junta doing military junta things but you don’t support Muslims.”

            Oops. I meant ‘Sooo….you support the military junta doing military junta things but you don’t support military juntas.’

            Some of your stupid rubbed off on me there.

          27. WhiteKnight

            “Oops. I meant ‘Sooo….you support the military junta doing military junta things but you don’t support military juntas.’

            Some of your stupid rubbed off on me there.”

            Even with the correction you’re still wrong!

            Keep trying buddy! We’ll get you there!

          28. MoyestWithExcitement

            Thanks, kid. Although, I’m doing this as a public service to keep you from interacting with real people. I do it out of a sense of duty so no need for praise.

            “WhiteKnight
            July 8, 2016 at 6:13 pm
            “Hopefully the Egyptian justice will hand down a deserved verdict in good time”

            No rush.”

            Why are you so angry anyway? Did a muslim take away your imaginary girlfriend?

          29. WhiteKnight

            “Thanks, kid. Although, I’m doing this as a public service to keep you from interacting with real people. I do it out of a sense of duty so no need for praise.”

            Hey, that’s what I said about you! You’re getting really good at this repetition thing!

            Still no closer to finding where I said I supported juntas though.. ;)

            Angry? Not at all! I believe that’s what they call “projection” :)

          30. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Angry? Not at all!”

            That’s the spirit! You’ll be a normal and not crazy person one day. We’re all rooting for you little buddy!

            “WhiteKnight
            July 8, 2016 at 6:13 pm
            “Hopefully the Egyptian justice will hand down a deserved verdict in good time”

            No rush.”

          31. WhiteKnight

            If normal means a basement-dwelling, racism-howling troglodyte, I’m grand as I am, cheers ;)

            Still no sign of that quote?
            Shameful stuff dude. You should learn to stop throwing around false accusations like that.

          32. MoyestWithExcitement

            Sure, little buddy. We won’t call that normal so. We’ll say you’re cool and “different” for being a basement dwelling, howling racist. Whatever it takes to build up your self esteem. Everyone just wants to see you get through this. We just know you can.

            “WhiteKnight
            July 8, 2016 at 6:13 pm
            “Hopefully the Egyptian justice will hand down a deserved verdict in good time”

            No rush.”

          33. WhiteKnight

            Like I say, great repetition. Almost exactly what I said about you.
            Only I’m a racist now?!
            Where did I say anything racist?!

            Off you go and find something racist that I said! :)

            Something that I *actually* said, that is!

          34. WhiteKnight

            And while you’re looking for that racism quote, don’t forget the junta-support quote too.
            I’m still waiting on that one. ;)

          35. MoyestWithExcitement

            Sure, little fella!

            “WhiteKnight
            July 8, 2016 at 6:13 pm
            “Hopefully the Egyptian justice will hand down a deserved verdict in good time”

            No rush.”

            It’s a 2 for the price of 1 deal. Do you reckon I could keep you dancing to my tune for the whole week? Actually, don’t answer that. Of course I can. This is the most amount of human interaction you’ve had since you were breast fed.

          36. WhiteKnight

            Hmm, so there’s nothing there about me supporting juntas, so what exactly is racist about it?

            Do you have any ideas?

          37. WhiteKnight

            Oh… You think this is *your* tune…

            Well this is embarrassing.

            Nos as embarrassing as falsely accusing me of racism and supporting juntas without proof, of course.

          38. MoyestWithExcitement

            Hmmm. Where’s the racism and support for military juntas in your call for the military junta to take their time making a decision about the brown skinned Irish Muslim they’ve held without trial for the past 3 years? That *is* a tough question alright. I’ll need to read your post supporting military juntas again and stroke my thinking beard while I consider this.

            “WhiteKnight
            July 8, 2016 at 6:13 pm
            “Hopefully the Egyptian justice will hand down a deserved verdict in good time”

            No rush.”

          39. WhiteKnight

            Hmmm, what does his skin colour have to do with it? Or the fact that he’s a muslim?

            And where did I say I support juntas?

            Certainly not in that post you’ve quoted.
            Must be somewhere else. Because I’m sure you wouldn’t falsely accuse me of being a racist junta supporter..

          40. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Oh… You think this is *your* tune…”

            Well you’ve spent 24 hours trying to prove yourself to me sooooo….Even money I can kerp you dancing till Wednesday at least.

          41. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Hmmm, what does his skin colour have to do with it? Or the fact that he’s a muslim?”

            Dunno. You’re the racist. Why don’t you tell me?

          42. WhiteKnight

            “Well you’ve spent 24 hours trying to prove yourself to me ”

            Oh.. You think *I’m* trying to prove myself to *you*?

            This is embarrassing..

          43. WhiteKnight

            “Dunno. You’re the racist. Why don’t you tell me?”

            How am I racist though?

          44. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Oh.. You think *I’m* trying to prove myself to *you*?”

            Oh, are you actually doing this for an audience? Oh my God! You poor cratur. You’re even more sad and lonely than I thought. I don’t know whether to laugh at you or pity you. Nuts to it, I’ll do both. When I finish laughing at you, perhaps you could explain to me how your call for the military junta to continue holding the irish muslim without trial means you don’t support military juntas and actually quite like muslims. *grabs popcorn*

          45. WhiteKnight

            lol
            So you just admitted that you yourself can’t explain how I’m a racist or a junta supporter. Amazing.

            My work here is done. It’s been great craic and my win feels lovely. Thank you very much for handing it to me on a plate like that!
            Enjoy hammering refresh every 20 seconds to see if I replied!

            Later bud!

          46. MoyestWithExcitement

            “Enjoy hammering refresh every 20 seconds to see if I replied!”

            Now *that* is projection. :D You angry little racist. Thanks for not charging me rent for living in your head the past 24 hours. I can’t wait to wind you up again.

          1. Sido

            I’m trying to remember the name you went under before hex. Your arrogant belief in the stupidity of others, sticks out like a sore thumb but your act has improved.

        2. Anne

          Not giving a fig about Halawa’s predicament doesn’t mean I support a junta.

          It just makes you a moron… why are you here if you don’t care. Trot along like.

          1. WhiteKnight

            I’m a moron cos I don’t give a fig about his predicament?
            How’d you figure that?!

            I’m here cos I’m having a laugh at Moyest pound his keyboard into dust while falsely accusing me of junta support and racism.

          2. anne

            “I’m a moron cos I don’t give a fig about his predicament?
            How’d you figure that?! ”

            I dunno..I put two n two together.You’re not Mark Humphreys by any chance are you? He’s a moron too.

  14. Turgenev

    His views are his own business, as are yours and mine.

    He was 17 years old (an age where good sense is rare) when he was arrested.

    Surely the Irish government could at least say “Give him to us and we’ll keep him in the slammer and investigate the case”? That way he’d be able to see his family, and would be in his home country.

    1. Sido

      They might well have done for all we know, they have kept their discussions confidential, presumably to avoid inflaming the issue, However the matter is not up to the Irish authorities – it is up to the Egyptian authorities and they do not wish to release him for reasons best known to themselves.
      Though a cynic would say that in doing so, they effectively disable any dissident activity Abrahim’s father was, in the past,capable of.

      1. Sido

        I don’t think he deserves it. He is a young man, who probably wasn’t aware of what he was getting himself into. I believe he was initially a pawn of his father, this pawn got captured by the Egyptian government. So now he is the pawn of the Egyptian government.

        A hard life for pawns, unfortunately for him.

    2. Deluded

      I agree, Turgenev. Ibrahim is an Irish citizen who, I believe, has been interned.
      Can he await trial here? Is there a precedent for that kind of thing?

      1. Sido

        Why don’t you ask the Egyptians? For it is only they that know the answer to that question. As they hold all the cards (bluntly). I put it to you that in this instance possession is 10 parts of the law.
        “A Smith & Wesson beats four aces” (as I once read on a tea towel in Knock)
        And do precedents count for anything in Egyptian law or is that just a common law thing?

        1. Deluded

          I thought to ask Turgenev who made the assertion. I think that three years in prison without charge is cruel and frankly we may not be convincing Ibrahim of the wonders of our civilisation.

  15. Eamonn Clancy

    A Muslim Brotherhood supporter, don’t care if he’s called Paddy Kelly, from Bluebell. Halawa and any other Irish supporter of the MB can rot in prison.

    1. some old queen

      He was 17 ffs? Yes he had dark skin and yes his father has questionable politics but first and foremost he IS Irish. It is not acceptable that he should become a political pawn.

        1. Nigel

          But it never ends well, either. I think we’re in agreement about the principle involved, though, which is nice.

  16. Michael Jerry

    The muslim creed is rooted in the dark ages its not applicable to our century,, I think immigrant that are contaminated by this creed should never be granted citizenship. those that are already here should be given the option of conform to christian values or return to a muslim country.. but what of the suffering in syria and africa and these places, our humanity should make us help them by creating safe havens in there own lands and if absolutely necessary allow some to come to europe on education and safety visa s but never to become citizens, for therin lies the danger of religious [creed] divide,,we in europe have suffered for centuaries with religious wars, do we want a return to those days,?,, I think when women are liberated in muslim lands ,this virus will evolve and become benign as the catholic and christian faith have ,, global finance houses and banks are the cheerleaders for most of these wars and the winners in financial terms at their end game..

    1. Anne

      The muslim creed Catholicism is rooted in the dark ages its not applicable to our century,

      There.. fixed.

    2. some old queen

      You clearly do not see the irony in referring to the Muslim faith as being rooted in the dark ages and then that you yourself would discriminate against them in such a manner?

  17. Michael Jerry

    Dear Anne ,,,As a man their patriarcal system should be right up my street, where as in your situation your rights would be equal to that of my goat , I would deplore such a situation ,I see womens equality and their imput as the greatest advance our society has ever made .

  18. Dolores Delorean

    Oh wait – here’s an even better idea guys – let’s not import anything from any country that doesn’t have a perfect political and judicial system – we may have to survive on fish, potatoes and whiskey for a while – but hey, we will make the world a better place to live in!

    1. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

      I just realised…

      – Me, I think that was a very appropriate video to post.
      -If you disagree you probably think ‘It takes a long time to finish’.

      Is that ‘irony’ or am I drunk?

      1. sǝɯǝɯʇɐpɐq

        Eh, hello?

        I have a job interview later on today. I need to know whether or not I seem drunk or not, or if I do.
        I’m not buying Silvermints if I don’t need them.

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