80 thoughts on “De Thursday Papers

      1. classter

        Berlin is fantastic but it is not a representative example of how multi-culturalism can work.
        It is an anomaly within Germany & is subsidised by the rest of Germany – it being the only EU capital poorer than the nation in which it resides.

      2. Clampers Outside!

        Sexual assault crimes in both Sweden and Germany have skyrocketed. The liberal left of Europe of which Merkel and Sweden are big players has been shown up to be careless and stupid with refugees and immigration. They will be paying the price socially for years, decades to come.

        Multi-culturalism has only worked where the immigrant population is introduced gradually, where the immigrants get a chance to adjust to new social mores, such as, women are equal to men, something lacking in many of the refugee and immigrant persons own cultural backgrounds.

        But the liberal left said no, ‘we must let these people in’, ‘we must do something now’, so they did, without any thought about the consequences of, in Germany’s case, a million refugees piling in unchecked.
        A group of people, mostly men, sorely lacking in presence of women and children which is normal for refugees. Instead, what Gwermany took in were young men, illiterate, uneducated, and culturally stuck in a genuine ‘patriarchal’ mindset indoctrinated into them since they were children. Where did they get this? From Islam.

        Look up Germany’s ‘Geissen Asylum Centre’ – rape and child rape is rampant. Sweden is now Europe’s capital of rape – with 53.2 rapes per 100,000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime) which is now practically double the true rape rate in the USA.

        But hey, the liberal left tells us that we cannot judge Islam…. funny that, when so many ex-Muslims and moderate Muslims think you can. But that’s another discussion altogether.

        Maybe now, that the impact is being seen, finally, the liberal left will wake up from it’s ‘do-gooder’ role and actually think things through before going off on a ‘save the world’ run with itself regardless of consequences.

        There’s a solution needed for the middle east refugee crisis, but putting these people in Europe by the millions will help NO ONE in the long term. that much has been proven in just one year!

        The liberal left had a go, and they fupped it up completely, with consequences that will be there for decades.

        To bring this home, our own media screamed at the govt to let more in. The govt dragged its heals (it could still do a lot more – and manage it properly). The like of Una Mullally, who is clearly an action-now-regardless-of-consequence-liberal-left cheerleader, wrote a piece after the New Years eve mass rapes saying that people should not be blaming immigrant ‘refugees’ and Islam. Well, I’d love to know what she says now, now that the full impact is in, and the truth that she was completely wrong and idiotic in the extreme is out.

        Harsh, I know. I’ll probably be called an Islamophobe by those who refuse to look at the stats. Those who refuse to look at the reality. It is not Islam per se I’ve issue with, it is the culture in the countries from which these men came, the culture they were brought up in is the issue, and Islam plays a MASSIVE part in that.

        1. Formerly Known As @ireland.com

          The “liberal left” did not start any of the wars in the Middle East.

          Do you want to talk about the people that did?

        2. Nigel

          Damn them liberals for ripping up the Middle East with unnecessary wars starting a flood of migrants and refugees, destabilising regimes across the region, culminating i one of the worse refugee crises in recent history, exacerbating problems with integration and stoking fear, resentment and hostility between ethnic and religious groups! Multiculturalism at its worst, I tell ya.

        3. Nigel

          Hopefully they’ll learn their lesson and play profitable geo-political games of Risk with more progressive countries next time, so the refugees and migrants will be more culturally acceptable!

        4. MoyestWithExcitement

          “Multi-culturalism has only worked where the immigrant population is introduced gradually”

          That’s right. We all saw how the UK collapsed after there was mass immigration from India and the West Indies in the 50s and 6…oh, wait, no.

        5. Clampers Outside!

          LOL at the accusations, typical nonsense. I never said the liberal left caused any wars you numpties.

          The liberal left of which Sweden is a cheerleader, and so is Merkel are both responsible for their own refugee immigration policies which have lead to the disasters in those countries.

          Please keep your outrage for something I actually said… each of you, thanks.

          @Moyest…. “mass immigration from India and the West Indies in the 50s and 60s”
          You see Moyest, the answer to your sarky comment is in your own comment…. “50s and 60s” – ie 20 years.
          Now, how many did they take in last year…. 3… 4… hundred thousand? How many in the 50s and 60s… here ya go:
          “13. Commonwealth Immigration after World War Two
          13.1. The British Nationality Act 1948 granted the subjects of the British Empire the right to live and work in the UK. Commonwealth citizens were not, therefore, subject to immigration control but the Home Office estimate is that the net intake from January 1955 to June 1962 was about 472,000.[57] From 1962 onwards, successively tighter immigration controls were placed on immigration from the Commonwealth. In the 1960s New Commonwealth citizens were admitted at the rate of about 75,000 per year. In practice the new immigration controls resulted in only a modest reduction in Commonwealth immigration.”
          http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefingpaper/document/48#
          Also… http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/citizenship/brave_new_world/immigration.htm
          I’m sure you can find more links on your own to rubbish your claim that the 50s and 60s immigration is the same as today… ffs…

          1. Clampers Outside!

            You may also like to note…. immigration from Commonwealth in the 50s and 60s is pre-radical Islam as we see today.
            Back then, even Tehran, Iran, as a off the cuff example, was described as ‘Paris of the middle east’. But, you knew that already… I’m sure.

          2. Nigel

            No, you numpty, but you’re diagnosing the problem with immigration into western Europe as being la result of iberal multiculturalism, as opposed to the various western policies contributing to massive destabilisation in Middle East regions, leading to massively increased increased migration putting a strain on countries that aren’t hidden behind barb wire fences. Numpty. What even is a numpty?

          3. Clampers Outside!

            No Nigel, you appear incapable of looking at the two separately.

            There’s the cause of the problem in the middle east. That’s one thing.

            The second, is the problem of the resulting refugees AND HOW THEY ARE HANDLED. A seperate problem for the host countries of these refugees. I am specifically talking about Germany and Sweden here, and how they fupped up big time.

            The second problem, that of refugees, which the liberal left said they had a solution to… was to let them all in. That is all that is being discussed here – the refugee crisis and the complete balls up that Germany and Sweden have made of it in their countries.

            You can run around talking about who caused the crisis all you want, you won’t hear me knocking that. That’s not what I’ve been discussing at all.

            What I have been discussing is the consequences of the actions taken by Sweden and Germany to ‘help’ that refugee situation and how that has literally blown up in their faces.

            If you cannot see the difference in the two discussions you need to get that looked at, that being, your head.

            I’m starting to repeat myself, if you don’t understand by now there’s little I can do for you, sorry……

          4. Nigel

            The two are so inextricably linked that to ignore one in favour of using the other to narrowly attack a particular political group suggests partisan opportunism rather than genuine concerns about the issues. There’s no excuse for buying into far-right talking-points that have been around for decades but which are being pushed to an extreme pitch now when they’ll do the most damage and cause the most conflict. The problems with immigration have nothing to do with distorted conceptions of multiculturalism and everything to do with woefully inadequate responses to the migration crises and lack of global political will to do anything effective about the spiraling conflicts. Pretending other people don’t understand what you’re saying is just a way of not responding to what they’re saying. As with issues around feminism, you like the talking points but lack full commitment to the lifestyle. Still don’t know what a numpty is.

          5. Clampers Outside!

            “….lack full commitment to the lifestyle.”

            Lifestyle… of feminism?

            Thank fupp for that :) I don’t support western feminist lies about modern society. I don’t support movements that turn followers into victims through safe spaces, microaggressions, nor other nonsense regressive left pseudo science. I don’t support movements that portray men in the West as dangerous ‘potential rapists’ …all the while ignoring and making excuses for the cultural differences of the men ‘from the east’ (for lack of a better geographical term) and their genuine ‘patriarchal’ misogyny – as proven in Sweden and Germany in the last year.

            Go fupp yourself you moronic fool.

          6. Don Pidgeoni

            Clampers, you say all this but you are literally saying all refugee men are rapists and paedos…

          7. Kieran NYC

            You know it would be much easier for you to just swap Twitter handles and have your repetitive daily fights there.

          8. Nigel

            Actually I meant the alt right misogynistic racist neo-fascist lifestyle attached to the arguments you espouse. Your only saving grace is that you’re a dupe because most of them don’t buy the poo they shovel.

        6. LW

          Clampers this is something of a deviation from your usual “There isn’t as much rape as is reported” routine. What would you suggest as an alternative to allowing refugees in?

        7. Don Pidgeoni

          If you had half an understanding of Swedish stats on rape and sexual assault and how these crimes are reported, you’d still be wrong. Or is it you don’t believe rape stats unless it’s the moslemics doing it?

          1. Clampers Outside!

            The only thing I can be wrong about of the one claim I’ve made – a rapid rise in serial assaults indefensible and Germany as a direct result of their refugee crisis.

            I have no worries about that being an incorrect fact, thanks

          2. Don Pidgeoni

            So these are facts and real facts but the other facts you spent six months arguing about weren’t? Looks mighty fupping fishy to me.

          3. Don Pidgeoni

            Now now. I’m trying to understand why you believe these facts but not others about the same thing. It’s very selective reading of them if anything.

    1. Sido

      Its a money thing as well as an unpleasant clash of theological beliefs. The cost to Germany’s exchequer, of last years intake of migrants, is €30 Billion upwards. Which sounds like just another number with 9 zeros, to many.

      Context –
      The real cost of the UKs contribution to the EU, (and some would say, the crux of the matter in relation to the Brexit and EU tears) After taking off rebates and money back is €9 Billion . That’s to say it starts off at 18BN and ends up at 9BN. Which puts the 30BN cost to Germany, of its migrant policies, into some perspective.

      1. classter

        Tbf Germany has a demographic catastrophe on its hands.

        Arguably in the longer term there is no net cost.

        1. mauriac

          because all the immigrants are engineers and doctors right ? a recent study showed how unprepared for the German workplace these newcomers are . They’re not moving to the west but bringing the middle east to Europe.

          1. classter

            a) actually many of them are quite well-educated.
            b) nobody is pretending that there are no initial challenges only that the cost versus long term benefit ratio is different for Germany as it is in many other places.

          2. mauriac

            a) most are not
            b) I fear they will become a permanent underclass like the Muslims in France who make up 8% of the population but 70%+ of the prison population.German demographic problems are already being solved by the many qualified Greek,Italian,Spainish etc. who have moved from countries of massive youth unemployment to fill jobs .

          3. Clampers Outside!

            @classter

            a) Most are not educated. That’s what Merkel said. It was a lie. She has to some extent admitted as much. Most are men, most are illiterate, most don’t speak German….

          4. MoyestWithExcitement

            The UN says it’s over 60% (I think they might have said over 70% actually) but go on…

          5. Clampers Outside!

            I won’t argue with you the 60 / 70 ….or lower…. there are a number of sources to get info from. maybe I have a stat wrong by a little, maybe my source is different, can’t recall right now.
            Either way, that still does not take away from the disaster that is currently being played out in Sweden and Germany as a direct result of the many uneducated male refugees who are not at all equipped for western culture and are carrying out sexual assaults on an unprecedented scale. That’s still a fact.

    1. Custo

      The media’s coverage of this psychotic scumbag as some sort of tragic angel with nothing but love in his heart is pretty sickening.

      1. Niamh

        A few years ago a man (in Cavan, I think) went on a bender, then waited for his recently estranged wife to return to her bedroom to pack up some more things, and shot her on sight. The papers described them as ‘two people who just weren’t meant to be together.’ Like Romeo and Juliet.

        If this man were a North Dublin drug dealer rather than a nice GAA-playing schoolteacher, the press would have no problem ‘demonizing’ him.

      2. Bob

        Imagine what it would take for you to do the same as him. And “I’d never do it” isn’t an answer, as you can be damned sure he never thought he would either.

        1. some old queen

          Anyone who does such a thing was clearly not well. It is an very sad story and if there is anything to be learned it is that there is always help available. Just pick up the phone.

          Samaritans free call: 116 123

          1. The Real Jane

            I think it’s widely understood that family annihilators aren’t typically suffering from a mental illness. It’s actually not good to promote the idea that they are for two reasons. First of all, it obscures the actual reasons why they do it, secondly, it increases prejudice against, and fear of, people with mental illnesses who are far more likely to harm themselves than other people.

          2. andyourpointiswhatexactly?

            Aren’t they? I can’t wrap my head around anyone doing that for any other reason than being absolutely insane. Is it just pure badness? Though I guess that’s massively reductionist.

          3. The Real Jane

            Well, the indication is that they fall into four broad categories but that the uniting motivation is to exert control over the family which they feel has been loosened in some way.

            It is difficult to imagine how anyone could do something like this in the full of their mental health but I think we’ve all met people who are grand till you go against them in some way and then act in unexpected and disproportionate ways. We wouldn’t say they were mentally ill though.

        2. some old queen

          I have no idea if there was mental illness involved or not but there clearly was a crisis. I don’t know how someone could be considered of sound mind after doing such a thing however.

      3. The Real Jane

        It is, it’s disgusting. And it happens every single time an incident of this type occurs. I recall your man whose marriage broke up so he went and shot his ex wife and daughter in the UK in the past few months which kind of didn’t quite say that if only the wife had stayed she wouldn’t have caused her own death, but the neighbours and friends say he’s a nice man and he wouldn’t be expected to do things like this, so, you know…

        I can’t believe the family of the deceased woman want her buried beside that man. Who makes these decisions?

        1. Caroline™

          I don’t understand why the media reports on these private decisions about burial like it’s definitively representative of some kind of side-taking. It’s presumably an immensely difficult decision taken by people who knew all the members of the family, at a time of grief and shock. I think it’s unreasonable to speculate further. Reporting so widely on the burial arrangements is likely only to increase pressure on families who *don’t* actually want their members buried alongside the killer.

          1. andyourpointiswhatexactly?

            True. I’d say nobody in that family can wrap their heads around it. This story and a story I read about some freaks in the States who injected a little girl with crystal meth and then raped her and dismembered her has made me hug my little girl a lot more the past few nights. It’s a horrible world.

          2. some old queen

            Exactly. Where they are buried is a private matter and should remain so. If the media really want to do something useful, rather this ghoul like coverage they should be using this opportunity to reach out to other people in distress.

  1. classter

    Ha, the Express has Theresa May declaring that Brexit will be a success as its front page news.

    What an absolute rag.

  2. Friscondo

    The New Statesman implies that the western powers should be in control to make the same mess they made in Iraq. Syrians should be in control. Most people there support the government. The New Statesman is now just a neo liberal rag, used to be a great publication.

    1. Sido

      Already, we are seeing the neo cons doing as much damage as they can possibly get away with in Syria. Just in case, their peace lovin’, glass cielin’ shatterin’, candidate doesn’t cut it in the November elections.

      More worryingly, in the number of elitist publications like the Guardian etc. we are seeing a proliferation of anti-Russian articles – just in case she does.

      1. Andyourpointiswhatexactly?

        Russia is a fairly easy target, in fairness.
        I often laugh at the tinfoil hat crowd, but the more you see the machinations of the elite, the more it becomes obvious that people really are that devious. It’s amazing. And depressing.

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