Hmmm… Immediately after the Russians publicly release an audio recording of Yulia Skripal telling her family that her father is fine the British announce that he has made a miraculous recovery from a nerve agent with no antidote? Something fishy going on there.
italia'90
You are absolutely correct to be skeptical. No antidote was needed as they were not poisoned by a nerve agent. If they had been in contact with a military grade nerve agent they would be dead within 2 minutes. There is no such thing as a delayed reaction nerve agent. Check out Craig Murray’s blog/twitter. It makes for compelling reading and insights and he has predicted all the subsequent events and poked so many holes in the Official British story it looks like a colander at this stage. Perfidious Albion indeed.
Our little Tory Boys ‘in Government’ truly have let us down once again. And the UK government has made right fools of themselves too.
On another subject – as I said here a week or two ago, the Brexit situation now reverts to the ‘Hard Border’ line. A week or two more, it’ll be ‘Agreement reached, no hard border’, and further down the line back to the ‘Hard border’. Each set of interested parties get regular days in the sun, where their needs are pushed as what’s going to happen. And so it goes, round and round. Staged. Bread and Circuses for the plebs.
rotide
This little comment chain is a great example of what broadsheet has become. An echo chamber strewn with fallacies.
jusayinlike
@ editor..
and here you are every day appearing with your contrarion opinions, oh the irony..
Niallo
Or phaluses, you decide.
Nigel
And verrucas.
Frilly Keane
@justSL
But shur’ he has’ta hang out here
Where else would he get his news etc
Not in the job anyway
This gaff is his biggest source
rotide
It’s obvious that these people can’t tell the difference between ‘News’ and ‘Opinion’ but I’d expect better from you Frilly.
You also seem to have bought into the same theory that i work in a newspaper, asserted mainly by conspiracy lunatics like Justsayin. You have made the classic error of turning this into ‘fact’ in your own mind.
Maybe you’re just an ignorant county bumpkin afterall frilly.
jusayinlike
Perennial contrarion editor descends into petty insults whilst self righteously lecturing people on perception.
Hypocrite.
Frilly Keane
Sucker!!!!!
Ignorant County Bumpkin
Out
GiggidyGoo
@ rotide Mmmmm. Thank you for that wonderful insight about the comment chain. Fallacies, you may know, are opinions based on mistaken beliefs. Nothing mistaken in my beliefs. Unless of course you can actually give me proof that there is. But that would mean you having to actually think, as you wouldn’t get away with your post above. So tell us what you think on Liar Leo and the other Boys that are in Men’s jobs.
GiggidyGoo
Great link.
dav
excellent link. thanks
Alastair
Or, if you’re interested in the perspective of an actual scientist:
Prof Alastair Hay, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Toxicology, University of Leeds, said:
“The police have reported that the Skripals may well have had the greatest contact with the nerve agent as a result of something being on the door of their house. From what the police are saying this represents the highest contamination they’ve recorded to date.
“Earlier reports suggested some contamination may have occurred in the car. It is quite likely that if either of the pair had had contamination on the palm of their hand from the house door handle this may have been transferred to the door handle of their car. The air conditioning system in the car has always seemed an unlikely source of exposure as effects would have been almost immediate because inhalation would have had to have been the route of exposure.
“It is important to note that it is the novichok family of nerve agent that is the focus of the investigation. We know little about them in comparison to other better-known nerve agents like sarin and VX. It is quite feasible that novichoks were developed to encompass some that were fairly volatile and others that were much more persistent. The persistent agents would be ones where skin contact would be where contamination generally occurred.
“We know from studies done on the persistent nerve agent VX that effects are delayed and that symptoms will occur a few hours to even some days later. Uptake through some parts of the skin is much more efficient than others – for example the cheek and the back of the ear are 25 times more efficient than uptake through the palm of the hand. Palms, elbows and knees would require more agent to have an effect than if it were on the cheek.
“In situations like the one involving the Skripals, it is likely there would have been delayed onset of symptoms like headaches, feeling nauseous, feeling very weak and possibly vomiting, after the typical exposure occurs through skin contact.
“Clearly one principal focus of investigation will now be the Skripal’s house. But the likelihood of there being any wider risk to the general public is extremely small, as the police have indicated.”
johnny
you may want update that…….
Prof Alastair Hay, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Toxicology, University of Leeds, said:
“I’m absolutely delighted to hear he is no longer in a critical condition. It is possible he was being kept sedated for some time after the incident to ensure no overactivity in the brain was caused by the nerve agent, and to wait until the nerve agent was cleared from the body – though we don’t know if this is why he was unconscious.”
All rather more convincing than Craig Murrays musings in the nature of nerve agent poisoning.
The entire conspiracy theory stuff around this is depressing. The Putin administration have form in poisoning people abroad – including the UK, they introduced a law specifically allowing the assasination of Russian citizens abroad, and they don’t exactly go overboard to disguise their culpability for this activity. You don’t have to be an admirer of May, the Tories, MI5, the CIA etc to acknowledge who’s the probable responsible party here.
Johnny
the irish govts (Vadkar?) pavlovian response to any brit demand is what’s most depressing.
don’t rule out a false flag,keep a open mind here Al.
jusayinlike
You would expect there to be irrefutable evidence Alastair at this stage, alas all were left to go on is Boris Johnson, which simply not ain’t enough..
GiggidyGoo
So, what we have is a professor, an expert, giving ‘may haves’, unknowns, ‘though we don’t know’s’.
In other words, he got a soap box and some media coverage, and his few minutes in the spotlight., but in the final analysis, he just doesn’t know.
david
Seems little Leo’s SCUnit is busy today with alister bringing his penneth into it.
Poor alister fails to remember the expert scientists working in the field failed to identify this came from Russia ,announced a few days ago from Portland down,
Also the proof could not be provided when the Russians asked.
Now it seems if the Russians think this military grade nerve agent is effective ,well bad investment as all suddenly make a remarkable recovery.
The fact of the matter is that Leo based his decision to expel a Russian diplomat from Ireland based on primetime exposure of the massive underground facility in rathgar that doubles as both a research lab for nasty nerve agents and a command structure.
This totally plausible explanation of mine regarding the farce is as plausible as the crap you are peddling.
Meanwhile the slob wheeled out by fine Gael on said primetime stated coveney
Is privy to the intelligence that this decision was based on.
Maybe its time that little Leo verruca’s Ireland has talent cabinet answer in the dail to exactly what is the proof they have ,which made them expel a Russian envoy ,that now has implications regarding possible sanctions against Ireland over this.
Alastair
Ehh, I’ll leave your SCU delusions to one side, but seriously – you need to seek help with those paranoia issues.
It’s ‘Porton Down’, and they were’t asked for an opinion on where the nerve agent came from, just what it was. It’s a Russian-devised nerve agent, and one that requires significant resources (state player level according to them) to produce. That the components are easily sourced seemingly isn’t the issue – synthesizing the agent is far from straightforward. All entirely plausible so far. Where did it come from? How the hell are they supposed to know? There’s no particular indicator in the agent itself to point to a definite source. Hence the reference to ‘Russian-type’. So we’re left with the question; who’s got a history of making this stuff, of offing any thorns in their side domestically, of poisoning other alleged traitors abroad without compunction (and legalising the act), and who’s state media jokes about the risks of being a Russian dissident in the UK? That’s convinced pretty much 60 nations that the responsible party is Putin’s administration, not some half-baked theories on Brexit manipulation by the Tories or whatever the supposed ‘false flag’ rationale of the day is.
Those shilling this conspiracy guff need to consider saving their skepticism for something remotely plausible, This nonsense is Pizzagate / Sandy Hook crisis actor level derangement.
f_lawless
Alastair you don’t seem to be following the story very closely. If you were, surely you’d be aware that the UK Foreign Office originally were claiming that Porton Down had made it clear that the Novichok agent in question had been produced in Russia.
They’ve since deleted their tweet on it now that it’s been exposed as a blatant lie as scientists at Porton Down are claiming no such thing. You can see a screenshot of it here: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/04/its-the-cover-up-uk-foreign-office-deletes-tweet-posts-false-transcript-issues-new-lies.html
Alastair
Regardless of the isolated and singular Foreign Office’s Moscow office tweet (!), the Porton Down scientists were never tasked with determining where it came from – how could they? It’s still true to say it’s a Russian nerve agent, which Porton Down confirmed. If you’re looking for your conspiracy, this is pretty half-arsed stuff.
jusayinlike
A Russian nerve agent that many other countries possess including the UK..
Put a link to your undisputed evidence of Russian involvement Alastair.
Alastair
Which countries would those be then, and where’s the evidence to support the contention?
jusayinlike
Google it Alastair..
Try looking somewhere other than the Guardian..
Alastair
Russia disputes the evidence, so it’s rather unlikely to be undisputed, isn’t it? The evidence was persuasive enough for more than 30 countries to sanction the Russians.
jusayinlike
And they are all squirming at the site of Boris Johnson being taken apart by standard questions from journalists..
f_lawless
you’re a gas man Alastair. It’s almost like you’re trying to characterise the UK Foreign Office as a persona who loosely tweeted some fib while under the influence and then the next morning quickly deleted it once they realised what they’d done.
But the reality is that this was the UK Foreign Office’s official stance for the last 3 weeks via their twitter channel of communication to the public until they just recently deleted it. In the end, the scientists at Porton Down refused to play along despite the intense pressure put upon them.
I had some vodka tonight – but it was brewed in Kerry
Alastair
As I suspected – much mouth, no trousers.
The only FO tweet on this was out of their Moscow office – so yes, most likely a single individual’s responsibility. If it was their official position, why would they not replicate it elsewhere, including out of head office? They clarified the context of the tweet, that it was being live tweeted under pressure for a timely response for the Russian public – all of which rings true, given that they didn’t repeat the statement anywhere else.
david
Alister being a paid blogger from little Leo’s SCUnit ,can I ask you are you paid double time for working on Saturday?
david
No because I run my own business paying taxes to pay employees of the SCUnit
david
Amazing this new David who has suddenly appeared has placed a comment I did not post.
His avatar has now changed to be the same as mine
I wonder ,have I upset someone, as all my posts are moderated now.
David
Amazing?
f_lawless
but Alastair, why do you ignore the fact Craig Murray references David Collum, Professor of Organo-Chemistry at Cornell University, in his article? Did you even read Murray’s article?
Collum has previously written on twitter:
“I will say it again: Anybody who tells you this nerve agent must have come from Russia is a liar–a complete and utter liar. They are simple compounds”
He also completely endorses the study released by Professor of Epidemiology, Paul McKeigue, and colleagues.
“The most definitive work on the novichok nerve agent scandal that I have seen is by Paul McKeigue and coworkers posted by @Tim_Hayward_ https://timhayward.wordpress.com/2018/04/01/update-to-briefing-note-doubts-about-novichoks/ ” https://twitter.com/davidbcollum/status/982200397698760705
As there have been various suspicious actions/statements by the UK govt since the event took place, I think there is every reason to consider that there may well have been another actor/actors involved who wanted to falsely implicate Russia.
And expressing doubts about the UK govt’s version of events does not equate to falling for Russian propaganda as Nigel, cheerleader of western corporate media talking points, seems to think in his comment below.
Nigel
‘And expressing doubts about the UK govt’s version of events does not equate to falling for Russian propaganda as Nigel,’
No, no, no, no, you silly billy. You’re expressing doubts about the UK govt’s version of events WHILE falling for/pushing a weird pro-Putin line. There’s nothing the UK is capable of that Putin isn’t also capable of if not more so, since he’s the gangster head of a gangster state. ‘Western corporate media’ hark at ye.
david
I think alister is a relic from the cold war he reminds me of the mad general who launched the attack on Russia in doctor Strangelove
He was trying to convince mandrake played by peter sellers that the Russians were trying to tamper with our bodily fluids
He said ”ever see a commie soldier drinking tap water.
I listened to prime time it was hilarious
Drones over the Russian embassy and god what are they building underground?
Real paranoid stuff
The sad thing is as all this absolute crap is happening brexit is looming and we have no plan B and a cabinet of sperm doners deciding our future
Micky martin please pull the plug
Alister take a tea break
Alastair
Seriously – seek help.
jusayinlike
Likewise Alastair, your naivety worries me..
Alastair
Try someone who cares. Possibly another dupe.
jusayinlike
ditto mate..
f_lawless
Nigel, it seems more and more apparent from your comments that you’re reluctant to use your own critical thinking as an individual and to base your conclusions on events as they unfold. Instead, it seems as though you’re locked into a rigid world view where you prefer to defer opinion to those in the reins of western power – it’s more comforting to trust those who must be “the good guys” rather than have to stop and really take the time to analyse and form your own independent opinion , right?
Nigel
Wow your snide superiority really makes a good argument!
petey
would this be the same craig murray who outed a rape victim on national television, yet won’t identify the person he “knows” leaked the DNC emails, and divorced his wife after banging a belly dancer behind her back? a paragon. i do see why trumpers treat his stuff as scripture.
f_lawless
It’s the same Craig Murray who only three weeks ago was receiving a torrent of online abuse/ ridicule for claiming that his UK Foreign Office contacts were telling him that Porton Down scientists were unable to confirm the source of the nerve agent. He’s since been proved right.
It’s the same Craig Murray who spoke out against the British authorities’ condoning of torture by the Uzbek regime at the expense of his governmental career.
But you go ahead with your poorly formed ad hominems rather address the content of his articles. Sure, it only exposes you as someone trying to derail an honest debate – for whatever reason.
jusayinlike
PT is not concerned with his great work on this subject, PT only wants to malign and abnormalise through attacks on his personal life.
The DNC quip gives it all away, PT is a fervent Hillary Clinton supporter, Hillary backed the carnage in Syria so it’s of no surprise to see him pocking fun at CM.
david
The very man
Nigel
Russia has great propaganda game, assisted by people who express intense skepticism about the UK’s official line but find Russia’s entirely trustworthy and credible.
italia'90
When facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?
So far, no conclusive facts have been presented.
Propaganda is not fact.
Supposition is all we have to go on so far.
jusayinlike
+1 italia90..
petey
gopd to see you agree with the Morning Star.
Nigel
Really? I’very been tripping over assertions that this is a false flag operation by the UK to provoke conflict with Russia absent any evidence whatsoever. That’s where the bar is right now in terms of conclusive facts ftom the skeptics.
jusayinlike
The onus is on the UK to provide evidence Nigel, not the other way around, but feel free to believe Boris Johnson, he’s very credible..
Nigel
No, he isn’t! Then again neither is Russia.
George
If a person is going to claim it is a “false flag” there is a equal burden of proof on them.
jusayinlike
@ George..
CM has not stated it’s a false flag, the onus is on the UK to provide evidence of the chemical attack, otherwise the whole situation will foster suspicion.
Nigel
You have, though.
jusayinlike
No I haven’t Nigel.
Nigel
Oh so you do not think the attack was a false flag operation by the UK or some UK faction for assorted purposes? Did you change your mind or was that always your thinking?
jusayinlike
Please point out where I said this incident was a false flag?
Nigel
That’s what I’m asking. Do you or don’t you think it’s some sort of false flag?
italia'90
Ah Nigel, come off it for a while, try and look at this objectively.
You’re accusing people here of supporting “a false flag” conspiracy yet you don’t offer any evidence or facts where they said such a thing. Piss poor Nigel and I’m genuinely disappointed. Then again, you do enjoy a pointless argument over the weekend so I suppose you are just being true to form.
Here’s where my analysis of this Novichok savagery has left me:
I’m 33% sure it was the Russians;
I’m 33% sure it was the British;
I’m 33% sure it was a different shower of psychopaths;
I’m 1% sure it was aliens who are well known for just f**king with us and have successfully infected our brains so that online commentary will eventually lead to the downfall of mankind. (That was a joke, just in case you’re itching to start a different pointless online argument)
Nigel
Well I’m not going trawling through comments looking for ‘proof’ when I could just ask a simple question and get a simple answer, am I? Plenty of comments on earlier stories proposing false flag theories, hard to keep track of who subscribes to which.
As far as I can tell there is no evidence to suggest it was anyone other than the Russians offing a double agent, and everything else is pure speculation. It’s not impossible that it was the UK itself, just vastly less likely than 33%.
Since the Tories and Boris Johnson are in charge, of COURSE everyone’s quite rightly skeptical of the UK line, or at least is anticipating them screwing the whole thing up whatever the truth is, but anyone who gives Putin the benefit of any doubt whatsoever is being weirdly one-sided with their skepticism.
italia'90
If you are going to accuse people, please have the relevant facts to hand so a defence may be presented to the court of popular opinion.
I think I’ve been giving you too much credit over the past 6 or 7 years. It would seem to me that we agree on less and less these days, not that you were to know that I was agreeing with much of what you posted on here in the early years.
C’est la vie.
Nigel
I’m not accusing, I’m asking.
realPolithicks
“When facts change”
What “facts” are you referring to? All I see here is the opinion of a blogger, and even assuming that he is correct what is the motivation of the british government to carry this out?
petey
+1 realP
jusayinlike
-1 rp..
You obviously missed all the carnage in Syria led by the UK and Obama US, Russia got in the way of that and now the “allies” want her out of the way and off the security council so they can complete their murderous mission and steamroll Syria.
Nigel
You mean the ongoing carnage in Syria surely?
italia'90
@realPolithicks I haven’t presented any facts. And the British haven’t either and have already been forced to change their original charges/spin put out 3 weeks ago. It’s very subtle wording, but you can always read a statement 2 different ways, such as what the British have done. CM isn’t saying it was the British or the Russians, he is just offering his informed opinion about what he believes is being said and when he sees obvious bulls**t he has the talent to counter it with a critical alternative. You don’t have to believe him, he may not be 100% correct, but it’s good to hear more than one version before you make a judgement.
If you can’t critically analyse the situation to see what possible motivation the British government or any other actors might have to conduct this savagery, then I doubt I can be of any help in answering that question.
I will say this though for what it’s worth. You don’t have to believe me.
I predicted to my Ukrainian partner that Yulia Skripal will make a miraculous recovery after the political damage is inflicted sufficiently.
Sergie Skripal will make a miraculous recovery not long after.
There will be a chemical attack or atrocity carried out in Syria very soon after to discredit the Syrian government and an invasion by the west will probably be called for, such as like in 2003 when Iraq was illegally invaded on the basis of false intelligence service information/dossiers of weapon of mass destruction.
How quickly people forget the modus operandi of the war makers.
Nigel
What do you mean ‘will be’ chemical attacks in Syria? There’ve been loads. Nobody cares, apparently. So you ARE proposing a false flag operation based on no evidence whatsoever building up to a faked incident of something that’s been ongoing anyway to promote an invasion nobody wanted to engage in back when Obama was looking for support for some sort of intervention when it might have made an actual difference because with that support there might have been strong viable alternatives to military intervention anyway? Putin/Assad have been given a free hand and a free hand they shall retain and chemical attacks will continue and nobody gives a damn until someone criticises them for it.
jusayinlike
“Obama was looking for support for some kind of intervention..”
It’s called starting a war Nigel..
“So you are proposing a false flag..”
No Nigel, you keep saying that phrase, nobody is saying it bar you..
jusayinlike
Your evidence please for this chemical attack by Putin/Assad?
@Nigel: Unclench! Unclench! Unclench!
Your knickers appear to be in a bit of a twist dear boy.
You made that jump all by yourself.
I didn’t say who exactly would carry out the atrocity, only that a chemical attack would be carried out soon. Skripal has become superfluous to whomever’s agenda he once was useful to, watch that story fade away, a bit like his pets unfortunately.
I made those 3 predictions before I even heard of Craig Murray, he was linked on here about 2 weeks ago iirc.
And guess what? Did you see the news from Eastern Ghouta today?
Hmmm I bet it’s just a complete coincidence then.
Nigel
So jusayinlike you don’t think this was some sort of false flag?
jusayinlike
I think it’s mighty suspicious, probably too early to call false flag..
Nigel
Italia have you been following the news from Syria for, like, months? Why is this particular Assad/Putin atrocity more coincidental than any of their previous atrocities?
Nigel
Are you saying this latest chemical attack is
a) false flag
b) completely faked
c) other?
jusayinlike
Nigel, totally fake and false flag are the same..
I get the feeling your trying to corner the conversation with this false flag line.. are you trying to shift the onus to explain onto the sceptic side? bit rich considering Boris and co have given literally no evidence to support the Russian c/a assertion..
italia'90
Nigel, I’ve been following Middle Eastern affairs a long time before it got fashionable.
I registered for Selective Service in the early 90’s, or the Draft as you may know it by (an involuntary system to sign up for a draft that doesn’t legally exist), during Desert Storm. I made it my business to be at least informed about world conflicts and never rely on any one particular source for that information. As luck would have it, I have a close relative working in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.
We don’t know who carried out the alleged chemical attack in Syria today. I see the usual sources fingering the usual suspects, but I need more information and facts than what is presently available. I have as much faith in the white helmets as I do in Boris Johnson and the BBC or BBC Lite(RTE).
But, I do see the British urging Trump to carry out missile strikes and an air offensive. Go figure huh! They are also calling for a convening of the UN Security Council along with the French.
Imagine, 3 of the worlds biggest petro-chemical nations calling for action in a strategically important country in the Middle East which is resource rich but technology, structurally and defensively poor. It didn’t end well before for any of the other countries lacking American democracy values did it?
These events are little pieces of a big jigsaw puzzle. It’s up to you how you put them together and what image you want to see.
Lastly, why do you keep asking anonymous people on the internet to answer silly questions? Either go to the Journal or, stop going to the Journal.
Nigel
Why do we not know who did it? Why do the responses of other countries imply that Assad/Putin weren’t behind the attacks? This makes no sense to me.
Nigel
Is there some reason you don’t want to be pinned down on this? It’s either yes, no, or an expression of probability in between, like Italia90’s percentages.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Lot of blue clear water between being skeptical of particular official lines and suggesting an alternative narrative of faked chemical attacks, (and fake terrorist attacks and faked mass shootings, for that matter) especially if those alternative narratives suit an opposing official line that is if anything less trustworthy than the other.
david
One of the sheep believing anything then wakes up when he thinks what a fool am I ?
Is that it
Alastair
Jeez ‘sheep’. How original.
One step away from ‘sheeple’ for full credit.
jusayinlike
Says Alastair regurgitating shills from the Guardian..
david
The story gets better and better and little Leo verruca?
Time he revealed what intelligence did he base his decision on? Or more actually he was sent out by our Reich to tell pork pies.
Now we have 2 very worrying articles that are brexit
The unionist paramilitaries not happy and this could mean a campaign of terror in the republic, The provisional IRA made a disgusting appearance on our streets in Dublin on Easter Monday and that in itself I assume sent shockwaves through the unionist community up north ,coupled with the stroke veranda tried to pull over the unionists over the border announcement before Christmas.
Second the border which is a reality of brexit
Little Leo verruca is clueless regarding brexit
Brexit is about the EU who will try everything in its power to break the UK
Unfortunately for us it will break us.
Its time instead of sitting there hoping the EU will look after us we act now and send a message to them regarding the consequences for them if we go down.
Its time micky martin pulls the plug before we reach the stage of destruction
Little Leo verruca’s Ireland got talent cabinet are unfit for purpose and its getting increasingly apparently this is the reality
SOQ
Connor needs a good spanking.
mildred st. meadowlark
Are you volunteering?
SOQ
Time and place? He’d probably accept the invite too. LOL
SO DOES little Leo verruca for the lies he told us which resulted in Ireland expelling a Russian envoy
perricrisptayto
Great to see a true Irish sporting hero making the front pages, Noel Cantwell was everything mcgregor isn’t.
Catherine costelloe
Lesley, please collect your sledge hammer from reception asap.
Bill
Well done to the Israeli army for protecting their border.
De Kloot
You seem to fit right in here.
david
Is that a German name? Dekloot or Sinn feinn Irish for hummus?
jusayinlike
Bill Bloodshed..
SOQ
Paddy Jackson has certainly changed his tune. An act of contrition no less. Whether it is genuine or just a PR move to save his neck, who knows.
Cian
His neck? no.
His professional career? Possibly
SOQ
I would think the sponsors are getting very nervous at this point, especially if the protest goes ahead outside the Ulster grounds on Friday. Brand association with any sort of controversy is never good but this is dynamite. No mention if he is still going to sue Aodhán Ó Riordáin mind.
anne
He departed from his values that were an integral part of his upbringing and he’s resolutely committed to making a journey back to those principles.
Cha-Ching, says the lawyer, that’ll be another 500 bucks for that waffle.
Bit of a change from the spit roasting language anyway.
Would he have regretted the events of that evening as much if she was traumatised but told no one?
Would he have “reflected on his values” had she just held the “chin up” as one of them texted her to do & said nothing? Who knows.
david
All behaved like dogs in heat. Both men and women at that sex party
To be honest all must carry shame for rape it was not ,just a gangbang that happens if you are into that sort of thing,
So maybe in the new sex educating of schools
Group sex and the safe words for no I do not want that one
Bondage
Gay sex
Lesbian sex
Transsexual sex
Anal sex
Threesomes
Then the loving sex between people in a relationship
That’s the reality in a society with no rules anything goes and normalising these sexual encounters
Now imagine the pure confusion that teaching this to children will bring
Frankly do we want this ?
Nigel
David you shouldn’t publish your Google search terms like that those are between you and the faceless corporation that wants to sell the data to third parties.
david
This so called unproven rape got them all out of the woodwork
The people at that event were of zero morals and we have the government jumping on the bandwagon talking about teaching sex education regarding what constitutes no
All I am pointing out is that this was not a man and woman having their jollies
Its a disgusting act of humanity of men and a woman behaving like dogs in heat.
That’s my morals and I am entitled to it
Call me a prude
All the outrage from the ultra liberal groups screaming rape spurred this debate. Which I suspect is fuelled by the repeal the eight mob to justify abortion on demand
So lets go the whole hog or like me do you want our children exposed to lessons on these practices?
But it hit a nerve for such a response
Brother Barnabas
you’re a prude
mildred st. meadowlark
Can’t say he didn’t ask for it.
Frilly Keane
Ta Nidgie
You made me laugh
Fair play
italia'90
Was talking with a barrister friend of mine last night who tells me there might be more revelations in transcripts that will be released on Monday. His PR team is trying to get out ahead of it perhaps?
SOQ
That is possible. Did he not swear in court that she did not leave distressed and now is apologising for her leaving distressed?
anne
It doesn’t matter one hill of beans what happened.. it’s what he believed happened at the time that counts according to the judge.
Cian
SOQ. Just arguing the toss but,
Did he swear that she did not leave distressed? Or that he was not aware of her distress (at the time)?
In court he would have heard her distress and now is aware of it and apologising?
Personally, I think it is mostly PR.
david
Amazing headlines the morning star
Israel
The British protest at Israelis action in Gaza wow what hypocrisy
The action is on the borders of Israel to ensure the border is secure
But lets see the EU bombed the crap out of Syria ,Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq
Of course all these nations are a threat to the EUs border
Then there is the shoot to kill policy for the terrorists stabbing EU citizens on the streets of Europe ,or the shootings, or the bombs, or the driving of cars trucks etc to mow down citizens on the streets of Europe
Apparently when Hamas uses these tactics against citizens in Israel and the Israelis shoot them its different.
And ISIS adopted these terror tactics from Hamas
Now we are paid up and signed up members of PESCO we can no longer hide under neutrality anymore
jusayinlike
Apartheid apologist.
david
And our travellers?
Another article regarding loyalist paramilitaries?very disturbing
If they bring their war down to the republic, how long will it be before Ireland demands its government defend its people.
And then you might understand about life under terrorist threat
The provos will
Start their crap in the north again
jusayinlike
Travellers v ethnic cleansing and genocide..
Great comparison David
rotide
you really should look up what those terms mean before you use them
david
You need to read up on ethnic cleansing
Are you referring to the creation of Israel and the Muslims that left?
Well read history and remember at that exact time 800thousand Jews who lived for centuries all over the middle east were also refugees forced out of their lands.
Maybe Google it
When arguing when you are totally ignorant of facts makes you a complete bigoted moron
Then read what genocide means, its different from open warfare
Its bounded about by idiots like you
Examples of what constitutes genocide are
Nazi Germany against Jews gypsies slavs Russians
Serbia against Bosnia
Rwanda
Turkey or the ottoman empire against Armenia
Burma and suit she what ever her name Nobel prize winner against the Muslims of the rohingya people
Then there is starlin
Yep
Starlin was a monster. Beautiful singing voice though.
Touch as many nerves as you like, Dave. Just give the comments a read prior to posting maybe?
jusayinlike
Genocide contrarion.
jusayinlike
Hillary Clinton = irrelevant.
Nigel
I thought she was heading up a pizza-themed paedophile ring with Obama? Suddenly that’s not relevant any more?
rotide
I agree.
why do you keep even mentioning her name?
david
Something due to the glass ceiling
jusayinlike
See the Irish Times editor, she’s on the front page for no apparent reason.
probably paid for it
Nigel
You’re going to need to provide evidence for such an assertion.
petey
so why do rightwingers keep mentioning her?
oh, she won. that’s why.
jusayinlike
Yea she totally won, that’s why she’s not president, amirite pt?
Nigel
Is she wearing an ankle monitor because she’s secretly under arrest?
jusayinlike
No idea..
She’s not president, she lost, her opinions are irrelevant..
Nigel
Does that apply to everyone who tries and fails for high political.office or just this one woman?
jusayinlike
Gore had to disappear and do a phoney climate change film, Kerry had to agree to front an illegal war, until she gets tasked she’s irrelevant.
Nigel
Do you think she is part of some manner of pedophile ring that may or may not include Obama?
jusayinlike
Do you?
petey
sure he does, nigel
ps, clinton won the election
jusayinlike
Home-baked server lost the election 2 years ago and your still whinging..
Nigel
Not even for a second. You? Or is there some reason you don’t want to answer?
michael walsh
The Russian Duma admitted in 2010 that 22,000 Polish soldiers were murdered/massacred in Katyn forest, Khallin and Khadive. in the forties.
This was after denying the fact for 70 years.
Will it take that long for the soldiers of destiny (who are heavily represented in above comments) to own up to the murders of Jean McConville and Paul Quinn?
jusayinlike
loughinisland massacre by the UDF with collusion from MI6.
RUC never bothered to investigate the atrocity and the killers still live in the loughinisland area.
Hmmm… Immediately after the Russians publicly release an audio recording of Yulia Skripal telling her family that her father is fine the British announce that he has made a miraculous recovery from a nerve agent with no antidote? Something fishy going on there.
You are absolutely correct to be skeptical. No antidote was needed as they were not poisoned by a nerve agent. If they had been in contact with a military grade nerve agent they would be dead within 2 minutes. There is no such thing as a delayed reaction nerve agent. Check out Craig Murray’s blog/twitter. It makes for compelling reading and insights and he has predicted all the subsequent events and poked so many holes in the Official British story it looks like a colander at this stage. Perfidious Albion indeed.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/knobs-and-knockers/
+1 lads absolutely spot on..
Our little Tory Boys ‘in Government’ truly have let us down once again. And the UK government has made right fools of themselves too.
On another subject – as I said here a week or two ago, the Brexit situation now reverts to the ‘Hard Border’ line. A week or two more, it’ll be ‘Agreement reached, no hard border’, and further down the line back to the ‘Hard border’. Each set of interested parties get regular days in the sun, where their needs are pushed as what’s going to happen. And so it goes, round and round. Staged. Bread and Circuses for the plebs.
This little comment chain is a great example of what broadsheet has become. An echo chamber strewn with fallacies.
@ editor..
and here you are every day appearing with your contrarion opinions, oh the irony..
Or phaluses, you decide.
And verrucas.
@justSL
But shur’ he has’ta hang out here
Where else would he get his news etc
Not in the job anyway
This gaff is his biggest source
It’s obvious that these people can’t tell the difference between ‘News’ and ‘Opinion’ but I’d expect better from you Frilly.
You also seem to have bought into the same theory that i work in a newspaper, asserted mainly by conspiracy lunatics like Justsayin. You have made the classic error of turning this into ‘fact’ in your own mind.
Maybe you’re just an ignorant county bumpkin afterall frilly.
Perennial contrarion editor descends into petty insults whilst self righteously lecturing people on perception.
Hypocrite.
Sucker!!!!!
Ignorant County Bumpkin
Out
@ rotide Mmmmm. Thank you for that wonderful insight about the comment chain. Fallacies, you may know, are opinions based on mistaken beliefs. Nothing mistaken in my beliefs. Unless of course you can actually give me proof that there is. But that would mean you having to actually think, as you wouldn’t get away with your post above. So tell us what you think on Liar Leo and the other Boys that are in Men’s jobs.
Great link.
excellent link. thanks
Or, if you’re interested in the perspective of an actual scientist:
Prof Alastair Hay, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Toxicology, University of Leeds, said:
“The police have reported that the Skripals may well have had the greatest contact with the nerve agent as a result of something being on the door of their house. From what the police are saying this represents the highest contamination they’ve recorded to date.
“Earlier reports suggested some contamination may have occurred in the car. It is quite likely that if either of the pair had had contamination on the palm of their hand from the house door handle this may have been transferred to the door handle of their car. The air conditioning system in the car has always seemed an unlikely source of exposure as effects would have been almost immediate because inhalation would have had to have been the route of exposure.
“It is important to note that it is the novichok family of nerve agent that is the focus of the investigation. We know little about them in comparison to other better-known nerve agents like sarin and VX. It is quite feasible that novichoks were developed to encompass some that were fairly volatile and others that were much more persistent. The persistent agents would be ones where skin contact would be where contamination generally occurred.
“We know from studies done on the persistent nerve agent VX that effects are delayed and that symptoms will occur a few hours to even some days later. Uptake through some parts of the skin is much more efficient than others – for example the cheek and the back of the ear are 25 times more efficient than uptake through the palm of the hand. Palms, elbows and knees would require more agent to have an effect than if it were on the cheek.
“In situations like the one involving the Skripals, it is likely there would have been delayed onset of symptoms like headaches, feeling nauseous, feeling very weak and possibly vomiting, after the typical exposure occurs through skin contact.
“Clearly one principal focus of investigation will now be the Skripal’s house. But the likelihood of there being any wider risk to the general public is extremely small, as the police have indicated.”
you may want update that…….
Prof Alastair Hay, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Toxicology, University of Leeds, said:
“I’m absolutely delighted to hear he is no longer in a critical condition. It is possible he was being kept sedated for some time after the incident to ensure no overactivity in the brain was caused by the nerve agent, and to wait until the nerve agent was cleared from the body – though we don’t know if this is why he was unconscious.”
http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-reports-that-sergei-skripal-is-no-longer-in-a-critical-condition-after-being-poisoned-by-a-nerve-agent-and-is-improving-rapidly-in-hospital/
All rather more convincing than Craig Murrays musings in the nature of nerve agent poisoning.
The entire conspiracy theory stuff around this is depressing. The Putin administration have form in poisoning people abroad – including the UK, they introduced a law specifically allowing the assasination of Russian citizens abroad, and they don’t exactly go overboard to disguise their culpability for this activity. You don’t have to be an admirer of May, the Tories, MI5, the CIA etc to acknowledge who’s the probable responsible party here.
the irish govts (Vadkar?) pavlovian response to any brit demand is what’s most depressing.
don’t rule out a false flag,keep a open mind here Al.
You would expect there to be irrefutable evidence Alastair at this stage, alas all were left to go on is Boris Johnson, which simply not ain’t enough..
So, what we have is a professor, an expert, giving ‘may haves’, unknowns, ‘though we don’t know’s’.
In other words, he got a soap box and some media coverage, and his few minutes in the spotlight., but in the final analysis, he just doesn’t know.
Seems little Leo’s SCUnit is busy today with alister bringing his penneth into it.
Poor alister fails to remember the expert scientists working in the field failed to identify this came from Russia ,announced a few days ago from Portland down,
Also the proof could not be provided when the Russians asked.
Now it seems if the Russians think this military grade nerve agent is effective ,well bad investment as all suddenly make a remarkable recovery.
The fact of the matter is that Leo based his decision to expel a Russian diplomat from Ireland based on primetime exposure of the massive underground facility in rathgar that doubles as both a research lab for nasty nerve agents and a command structure.
This totally plausible explanation of mine regarding the farce is as plausible as the crap you are peddling.
Meanwhile the slob wheeled out by fine Gael on said primetime stated coveney
Is privy to the intelligence that this decision was based on.
Maybe its time that little Leo verruca’s Ireland has talent cabinet answer in the dail to exactly what is the proof they have ,which made them expel a Russian envoy ,that now has implications regarding possible sanctions against Ireland over this.
Ehh, I’ll leave your SCU delusions to one side, but seriously – you need to seek help with those paranoia issues.
It’s ‘Porton Down’, and they were’t asked for an opinion on where the nerve agent came from, just what it was. It’s a Russian-devised nerve agent, and one that requires significant resources (state player level according to them) to produce. That the components are easily sourced seemingly isn’t the issue – synthesizing the agent is far from straightforward. All entirely plausible so far. Where did it come from? How the hell are they supposed to know? There’s no particular indicator in the agent itself to point to a definite source. Hence the reference to ‘Russian-type’. So we’re left with the question; who’s got a history of making this stuff, of offing any thorns in their side domestically, of poisoning other alleged traitors abroad without compunction (and legalising the act), and who’s state media jokes about the risks of being a Russian dissident in the UK? That’s convinced pretty much 60 nations that the responsible party is Putin’s administration, not some half-baked theories on Brexit manipulation by the Tories or whatever the supposed ‘false flag’ rationale of the day is.
Those shilling this conspiracy guff need to consider saving their skepticism for something remotely plausible, This nonsense is Pizzagate / Sandy Hook crisis actor level derangement.
Alastair you don’t seem to be following the story very closely. If you were, surely you’d be aware that the UK Foreign Office originally were claiming that Porton Down had made it clear that the Novichok agent in question had been produced in Russia.
They’ve since deleted their tweet on it now that it’s been exposed as a blatant lie as scientists at Porton Down are claiming no such thing. You can see a screenshot of it here:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/04/its-the-cover-up-uk-foreign-office-deletes-tweet-posts-false-transcript-issues-new-lies.html
Regardless of the isolated and singular Foreign Office’s Moscow office tweet (!), the Porton Down scientists were never tasked with determining where it came from – how could they? It’s still true to say it’s a Russian nerve agent, which Porton Down confirmed. If you’re looking for your conspiracy, this is pretty half-arsed stuff.
A Russian nerve agent that many other countries possess including the UK..
Put a link to your undisputed evidence of Russian involvement Alastair.
Which countries would those be then, and where’s the evidence to support the contention?
Google it Alastair..
Try looking somewhere other than the Guardian..
Russia disputes the evidence, so it’s rather unlikely to be undisputed, isn’t it? The evidence was persuasive enough for more than 30 countries to sanction the Russians.
And they are all squirming at the site of Boris Johnson being taken apart by standard questions from journalists..
you’re a gas man Alastair. It’s almost like you’re trying to characterise the UK Foreign Office as a persona who loosely tweeted some fib while under the influence and then the next morning quickly deleted it once they realised what they’d done.
But the reality is that this was the UK Foreign Office’s official stance for the last 3 weeks via their twitter channel of communication to the public until they just recently deleted it. In the end, the scientists at Porton Down refused to play along despite the intense pressure put upon them.
I had some vodka tonight – but it was brewed in Kerry
As I suspected – much mouth, no trousers.
The only FO tweet on this was out of their Moscow office – so yes, most likely a single individual’s responsibility. If it was their official position, why would they not replicate it elsewhere, including out of head office? They clarified the context of the tweet, that it was being live tweeted under pressure for a timely response for the Russian public – all of which rings true, given that they didn’t repeat the statement anywhere else.
Alister being a paid blogger from little Leo’s SCUnit ,can I ask you are you paid double time for working on Saturday?
No because I run my own business paying taxes to pay employees of the SCUnit
Amazing this new David who has suddenly appeared has placed a comment I did not post.
His avatar has now changed to be the same as mine
I wonder ,have I upset someone, as all my posts are moderated now.
Amazing?
but Alastair, why do you ignore the fact Craig Murray references David Collum, Professor of Organo-Chemistry at Cornell University, in his article? Did you even read Murray’s article?
Collum has previously written on twitter:
“I will say it again: Anybody who tells you this nerve agent must have come from Russia is a liar–a complete and utter liar. They are simple compounds”
He also completely endorses the study released by Professor of Epidemiology, Paul McKeigue, and colleagues.
“The most definitive work on the novichok nerve agent scandal that I have seen is by Paul McKeigue and coworkers posted by @Tim_Hayward_ https://timhayward.wordpress.com/2018/04/01/update-to-briefing-note-doubts-about-novichoks/ ”
https://twitter.com/davidbcollum/status/982200397698760705
As there have been various suspicious actions/statements by the UK govt since the event took place, I think there is every reason to consider that there may well have been another actor/actors involved who wanted to falsely implicate Russia.
And expressing doubts about the UK govt’s version of events does not equate to falling for Russian propaganda as Nigel, cheerleader of western corporate media talking points, seems to think in his comment below.
‘And expressing doubts about the UK govt’s version of events does not equate to falling for Russian propaganda as Nigel,’
No, no, no, no, you silly billy. You’re expressing doubts about the UK govt’s version of events WHILE falling for/pushing a weird pro-Putin line. There’s nothing the UK is capable of that Putin isn’t also capable of if not more so, since he’s the gangster head of a gangster state. ‘Western corporate media’ hark at ye.
I think alister is a relic from the cold war he reminds me of the mad general who launched the attack on Russia in doctor Strangelove
He was trying to convince mandrake played by peter sellers that the Russians were trying to tamper with our bodily fluids
He said ”ever see a commie soldier drinking tap water.
I listened to prime time it was hilarious
Drones over the Russian embassy and god what are they building underground?
Real paranoid stuff
The sad thing is as all this absolute crap is happening brexit is looming and we have no plan B and a cabinet of sperm doners deciding our future
Micky martin please pull the plug
Alister take a tea break
Seriously – seek help.
Likewise Alastair, your naivety worries me..
Try someone who cares. Possibly another dupe.
ditto mate..
Nigel, it seems more and more apparent from your comments that you’re reluctant to use your own critical thinking as an individual and to base your conclusions on events as they unfold. Instead, it seems as though you’re locked into a rigid world view where you prefer to defer opinion to those in the reins of western power – it’s more comforting to trust those who must be “the good guys” rather than have to stop and really take the time to analyse and form your own independent opinion , right?
Wow your snide superiority really makes a good argument!
would this be the same craig murray who outed a rape victim on national television, yet won’t identify the person he “knows” leaked the DNC emails, and divorced his wife after banging a belly dancer behind her back? a paragon. i do see why trumpers treat his stuff as scripture.
It’s the same Craig Murray who only three weeks ago was receiving a torrent of online abuse/ ridicule for claiming that his UK Foreign Office contacts were telling him that Porton Down scientists were unable to confirm the source of the nerve agent. He’s since been proved right.
It’s the same Craig Murray who spoke out against the British authorities’ condoning of torture by the Uzbek regime at the expense of his governmental career.
But you go ahead with your poorly formed ad hominems rather address the content of his articles. Sure, it only exposes you as someone trying to derail an honest debate – for whatever reason.
PT is not concerned with his great work on this subject, PT only wants to malign and abnormalise through attacks on his personal life.
The DNC quip gives it all away, PT is a fervent Hillary Clinton supporter, Hillary backed the carnage in Syria so it’s of no surprise to see him pocking fun at CM.
The very man
Russia has great propaganda game, assisted by people who express intense skepticism about the UK’s official line but find Russia’s entirely trustworthy and credible.
When facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?
So far, no conclusive facts have been presented.
Propaganda is not fact.
Supposition is all we have to go on so far.
+1 italia90..
gopd to see you agree with the Morning Star.
Really? I’very been tripping over assertions that this is a false flag operation by the UK to provoke conflict with Russia absent any evidence whatsoever. That’s where the bar is right now in terms of conclusive facts ftom the skeptics.
The onus is on the UK to provide evidence Nigel, not the other way around, but feel free to believe Boris Johnson, he’s very credible..
No, he isn’t! Then again neither is Russia.
If a person is going to claim it is a “false flag” there is a equal burden of proof on them.
@ George..
CM has not stated it’s a false flag, the onus is on the UK to provide evidence of the chemical attack, otherwise the whole situation will foster suspicion.
You have, though.
No I haven’t Nigel.
Oh so you do not think the attack was a false flag operation by the UK or some UK faction for assorted purposes? Did you change your mind or was that always your thinking?
Please point out where I said this incident was a false flag?
That’s what I’m asking. Do you or don’t you think it’s some sort of false flag?
Ah Nigel, come off it for a while, try and look at this objectively.
You’re accusing people here of supporting “a false flag” conspiracy yet you don’t offer any evidence or facts where they said such a thing. Piss poor Nigel and I’m genuinely disappointed. Then again, you do enjoy a pointless argument over the weekend so I suppose you are just being true to form.
Here’s where my analysis of this Novichok savagery has left me:
I’m 33% sure it was the Russians;
I’m 33% sure it was the British;
I’m 33% sure it was a different shower of psychopaths;
I’m 1% sure it was aliens who are well known for just f**king with us and have successfully infected our brains so that online commentary will eventually lead to the downfall of mankind. (That was a joke, just in case you’re itching to start a different pointless online argument)
Well I’m not going trawling through comments looking for ‘proof’ when I could just ask a simple question and get a simple answer, am I? Plenty of comments on earlier stories proposing false flag theories, hard to keep track of who subscribes to which.
As far as I can tell there is no evidence to suggest it was anyone other than the Russians offing a double agent, and everything else is pure speculation. It’s not impossible that it was the UK itself, just vastly less likely than 33%.
Since the Tories and Boris Johnson are in charge, of COURSE everyone’s quite rightly skeptical of the UK line, or at least is anticipating them screwing the whole thing up whatever the truth is, but anyone who gives Putin the benefit of any doubt whatsoever is being weirdly one-sided with their skepticism.
If you are going to accuse people, please have the relevant facts to hand so a defence may be presented to the court of popular opinion.
I think I’ve been giving you too much credit over the past 6 or 7 years. It would seem to me that we agree on less and less these days, not that you were to know that I was agreeing with much of what you posted on here in the early years.
C’est la vie.
I’m not accusing, I’m asking.
“When facts change”
What “facts” are you referring to? All I see here is the opinion of a blogger, and even assuming that he is correct what is the motivation of the british government to carry this out?
+1 realP
-1 rp..
You obviously missed all the carnage in Syria led by the UK and Obama US, Russia got in the way of that and now the “allies” want her out of the way and off the security council so they can complete their murderous mission and steamroll Syria.
You mean the ongoing carnage in Syria surely?
@realPolithicks I haven’t presented any facts. And the British haven’t either and have already been forced to change their original charges/spin put out 3 weeks ago. It’s very subtle wording, but you can always read a statement 2 different ways, such as what the British have done. CM isn’t saying it was the British or the Russians, he is just offering his informed opinion about what he believes is being said and when he sees obvious bulls**t he has the talent to counter it with a critical alternative. You don’t have to believe him, he may not be 100% correct, but it’s good to hear more than one version before you make a judgement.
If you can’t critically analyse the situation to see what possible motivation the British government or any other actors might have to conduct this savagery, then I doubt I can be of any help in answering that question.
I will say this though for what it’s worth. You don’t have to believe me.
I predicted to my Ukrainian partner that Yulia Skripal will make a miraculous recovery after the political damage is inflicted sufficiently.
Sergie Skripal will make a miraculous recovery not long after.
There will be a chemical attack or atrocity carried out in Syria very soon after to discredit the Syrian government and an invasion by the west will probably be called for, such as like in 2003 when Iraq was illegally invaded on the basis of false intelligence service information/dossiers of weapon of mass destruction.
How quickly people forget the modus operandi of the war makers.
What do you mean ‘will be’ chemical attacks in Syria? There’ve been loads. Nobody cares, apparently. So you ARE proposing a false flag operation based on no evidence whatsoever building up to a faked incident of something that’s been ongoing anyway to promote an invasion nobody wanted to engage in back when Obama was looking for support for some sort of intervention when it might have made an actual difference because with that support there might have been strong viable alternatives to military intervention anyway? Putin/Assad have been given a free hand and a free hand they shall retain and chemical attacks will continue and nobody gives a damn until someone criticises them for it.
“Obama was looking for support for some kind of intervention..”
It’s called starting a war Nigel..
“So you are proposing a false flag..”
No Nigel, you keep saying that phrase, nobody is saying it bar you..
Your evidence please for this chemical attack by Putin/Assad?
https://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clinton-approved-delivering-libyas-sarin-gas-to-syrian-rebels-seymour-hersh/5522647
@Nigel: Unclench! Unclench! Unclench!
Your knickers appear to be in a bit of a twist dear boy.
You made that jump all by yourself.
I didn’t say who exactly would carry out the atrocity, only that a chemical attack would be carried out soon. Skripal has become superfluous to whomever’s agenda he once was useful to, watch that story fade away, a bit like his pets unfortunately.
I made those 3 predictions before I even heard of Craig Murray, he was linked on here about 2 weeks ago iirc.
And guess what? Did you see the news from Eastern Ghouta today?
Hmmm I bet it’s just a complete coincidence then.
So jusayinlike you don’t think this was some sort of false flag?
I think it’s mighty suspicious, probably too early to call false flag..
Italia have you been following the news from Syria for, like, months? Why is this particular Assad/Putin atrocity more coincidental than any of their previous atrocities?
Are you saying this latest chemical attack is
a) false flag
b) completely faked
c) other?
Nigel, totally fake and false flag are the same..
I get the feeling your trying to corner the conversation with this false flag line.. are you trying to shift the onus to explain onto the sceptic side? bit rich considering Boris and co have given literally no evidence to support the Russian c/a assertion..
Nigel, I’ve been following Middle Eastern affairs a long time before it got fashionable.
I registered for Selective Service in the early 90’s, or the Draft as you may know it by (an involuntary system to sign up for a draft that doesn’t legally exist), during Desert Storm. I made it my business to be at least informed about world conflicts and never rely on any one particular source for that information. As luck would have it, I have a close relative working in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.
We don’t know who carried out the alleged chemical attack in Syria today. I see the usual sources fingering the usual suspects, but I need more information and facts than what is presently available. I have as much faith in the white helmets as I do in Boris Johnson and the BBC or BBC Lite(RTE).
But, I do see the British urging Trump to carry out missile strikes and an air offensive. Go figure huh! They are also calling for a convening of the UN Security Council along with the French.
Imagine, 3 of the worlds biggest petro-chemical nations calling for action in a strategically important country in the Middle East which is resource rich but technology, structurally and defensively poor. It didn’t end well before for any of the other countries lacking American democracy values did it?
These events are little pieces of a big jigsaw puzzle. It’s up to you how you put them together and what image you want to see.
Lastly, why do you keep asking anonymous people on the internet to answer silly questions? Either go to the Journal or, stop going to the Journal.
Why do we not know who did it? Why do the responses of other countries imply that Assad/Putin weren’t behind the attacks? This makes no sense to me.
Is there some reason you don’t want to be pinned down on this? It’s either yes, no, or an expression of probability in between, like Italia90’s percentages.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Lot of blue clear water between being skeptical of particular official lines and suggesting an alternative narrative of faked chemical attacks, (and fake terrorist attacks and faked mass shootings, for that matter) especially if those alternative narratives suit an opposing official line that is if anything less trustworthy than the other.
One of the sheep believing anything then wakes up when he thinks what a fool am I ?
Is that it
Jeez ‘sheep’. How original.
One step away from ‘sheeple’ for full credit.
Says Alastair regurgitating shills from the Guardian..
The story gets better and better and little Leo verruca?
Time he revealed what intelligence did he base his decision on? Or more actually he was sent out by our Reich to tell pork pies.
Now we have 2 very worrying articles that are brexit
The unionist paramilitaries not happy and this could mean a campaign of terror in the republic, The provisional IRA made a disgusting appearance on our streets in Dublin on Easter Monday and that in itself I assume sent shockwaves through the unionist community up north ,coupled with the stroke veranda tried to pull over the unionists over the border announcement before Christmas.
Second the border which is a reality of brexit
Little Leo verruca is clueless regarding brexit
Brexit is about the EU who will try everything in its power to break the UK
Unfortunately for us it will break us.
Its time instead of sitting there hoping the EU will look after us we act now and send a message to them regarding the consequences for them if we go down.
Its time micky martin pulls the plug before we reach the stage of destruction
Little Leo verruca’s Ireland got talent cabinet are unfit for purpose and its getting increasingly apparently this is the reality
Connor needs a good spanking.
Are you volunteering?
Time and place? He’d probably accept the invite too. LOL
bring pepsi, sorry, coke
It is what it is.. :-)
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=931618463686122&id=708009086047062
SO DOES little Leo verruca for the lies he told us which resulted in Ireland expelling a Russian envoy
Great to see a true Irish sporting hero making the front pages, Noel Cantwell was everything mcgregor isn’t.
Lesley, please collect your sledge hammer from reception asap.
Well done to the Israeli army for protecting their border.
You seem to fit right in here.
Is that a German name? Dekloot or Sinn feinn Irish for hummus?
Bill Bloodshed..
Paddy Jackson has certainly changed his tune. An act of contrition no less. Whether it is genuine or just a PR move to save his neck, who knows.
His neck? no.
His professional career? Possibly
I would think the sponsors are getting very nervous at this point, especially if the protest goes ahead outside the Ulster grounds on Friday. Brand association with any sort of controversy is never good but this is dynamite. No mention if he is still going to sue Aodhán Ó Riordáin mind.
He departed from his values that were an integral part of his upbringing and he’s resolutely committed to making a journey back to those principles.
Cha-Ching, says the lawyer, that’ll be another 500 bucks for that waffle.
Bit of a change from the spit roasting language anyway.
Would he have regretted the events of that evening as much if she was traumatised but told no one?
Would he have “reflected on his values” had she just held the “chin up” as one of them texted her to do & said nothing? Who knows.
All behaved like dogs in heat. Both men and women at that sex party
To be honest all must carry shame for rape it was not ,just a gangbang that happens if you are into that sort of thing,
So maybe in the new sex educating of schools
Group sex and the safe words for no I do not want that one
Bondage
Gay sex
Lesbian sex
Transsexual sex
Anal sex
Threesomes
Then the loving sex between people in a relationship
That’s the reality in a society with no rules anything goes and normalising these sexual encounters
Now imagine the pure confusion that teaching this to children will bring
Frankly do we want this ?
David you shouldn’t publish your Google search terms like that those are between you and the faceless corporation that wants to sell the data to third parties.
This so called unproven rape got them all out of the woodwork
The people at that event were of zero morals and we have the government jumping on the bandwagon talking about teaching sex education regarding what constitutes no
All I am pointing out is that this was not a man and woman having their jollies
Its a disgusting act of humanity of men and a woman behaving like dogs in heat.
That’s my morals and I am entitled to it
Call me a prude
All the outrage from the ultra liberal groups screaming rape spurred this debate. Which I suspect is fuelled by the repeal the eight mob to justify abortion on demand
So lets go the whole hog or like me do you want our children exposed to lessons on these practices?
But it hit a nerve for such a response
you’re a prude
Can’t say he didn’t ask for it.
Ta Nidgie
You made me laugh
Fair play
Was talking with a barrister friend of mine last night who tells me there might be more revelations in transcripts that will be released on Monday. His PR team is trying to get out ahead of it perhaps?
That is possible. Did he not swear in court that she did not leave distressed and now is apologising for her leaving distressed?
It doesn’t matter one hill of beans what happened.. it’s what he believed happened at the time that counts according to the judge.
SOQ. Just arguing the toss but,
Did he swear that she did not leave distressed? Or that he was not aware of her distress (at the time)?
In court he would have heard her distress and now is aware of it and apologising?
Personally, I think it is mostly PR.
Amazing headlines the morning star
Israel
The British protest at Israelis action in Gaza wow what hypocrisy
The action is on the borders of Israel to ensure the border is secure
But lets see the EU bombed the crap out of Syria ,Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq
Of course all these nations are a threat to the EUs border
Then there is the shoot to kill policy for the terrorists stabbing EU citizens on the streets of Europe ,or the shootings, or the bombs, or the driving of cars trucks etc to mow down citizens on the streets of Europe
Apparently when Hamas uses these tactics against citizens in Israel and the Israelis shoot them its different.
And ISIS adopted these terror tactics from Hamas
Now we are paid up and signed up members of PESCO we can no longer hide under neutrality anymore
Apartheid apologist.
And our travellers?
Another article regarding loyalist paramilitaries?very disturbing
If they bring their war down to the republic, how long will it be before Ireland demands its government defend its people.
And then you might understand about life under terrorist threat
The provos will
Start their crap in the north again
Travellers v ethnic cleansing and genocide..
Great comparison David
you really should look up what those terms mean before you use them
You need to read up on ethnic cleansing
Are you referring to the creation of Israel and the Muslims that left?
Well read history and remember at that exact time 800thousand Jews who lived for centuries all over the middle east were also refugees forced out of their lands.
Maybe Google it
When arguing when you are totally ignorant of facts makes you a complete bigoted moron
Then read what genocide means, its different from open warfare
Its bounded about by idiots like you
Examples of what constitutes genocide are
Nazi Germany against Jews gypsies slavs Russians
Serbia against Bosnia
Rwanda
Turkey or the ottoman empire against Armenia
Burma and suit she what ever her name Nobel prize winner against the Muslims of the rohingya people
Then there is starlin
Starlin was a monster. Beautiful singing voice though.
Touch as many nerves as you like, Dave. Just give the comments a read prior to posting maybe?
Genocide contrarion.
Hillary Clinton = irrelevant.
I thought she was heading up a pizza-themed paedophile ring with Obama? Suddenly that’s not relevant any more?
I agree.
why do you keep even mentioning her name?
Something due to the glass ceiling
See the Irish Times editor, she’s on the front page for no apparent reason.
probably paid for it
You’re going to need to provide evidence for such an assertion.
so why do rightwingers keep mentioning her?
oh, she won. that’s why.
Yea she totally won, that’s why she’s not president, amirite pt?
Is she wearing an ankle monitor because she’s secretly under arrest?
No idea..
She’s not president, she lost, her opinions are irrelevant..
Does that apply to everyone who tries and fails for high political.office or just this one woman?
Gore had to disappear and do a phoney climate change film, Kerry had to agree to front an illegal war, until she gets tasked she’s irrelevant.
Do you think she is part of some manner of pedophile ring that may or may not include Obama?
Do you?
sure he does, nigel
ps, clinton won the election
Home-baked server lost the election 2 years ago and your still whinging..
Not even for a second. You? Or is there some reason you don’t want to answer?
The Russian Duma admitted in 2010 that 22,000 Polish soldiers were murdered/massacred in Katyn forest, Khallin and Khadive. in the forties.
This was after denying the fact for 70 years.
Will it take that long for the soldiers of destiny (who are heavily represented in above comments) to own up to the murders of Jean McConville and Paul Quinn?
loughinisland massacre by the UDF with collusion from MI6.
RUC never bothered to investigate the atrocity and the killers still live in the loughinisland area.