Stop her.
She’s celebrating the wrong way.
‘I am more than happy with what happened last Friday and invigorated by the turnout – especially young voters’ participation. In retrospect, the difficult and uncomfortable debate was extremely good and productive.
So, what’s my point here? Well, it is that there is a certain dislikeable triumphalism among a minority on the Yes winning side…’
John Downing, today’s Irish Independent
‘I know that mixture of abjection and alienation, when the country you love and the people you care about go in one direction while you’re going in another; when your own deepest values are profoundly out of kilter with those of your compatriots. I know what it’s like to be the freak.
And that knowledge might also carry a small warning against revenge. For many of us, Saturday was the first day of our adult lives in which we felt fully like the normal Irish. That’s a fine feeling and God knows we’ve waited long enough for it. It is worth savouring. But let’s not do to them what they did to us.’
Fintan O’Toole, today’s Irish Times
‘So, are we to replace decades of religious tyranny with a new secular intolerance? And so, just as some members of that victorious 67pc in 1983 were obnoxious, smug and vengeful towards the losing side, that same miasma of triumphalist contempt has been clearly in evidence from many victorious repealers.’
Ian O’Doherty, today’s Irish Independent
So there.
Rollingnews
That ain’t celebrating, that’s relief.
+1
+1000
Nothing more need be said.
that’s just like your… opinion, man…
Only in Ireland would people complain about how the winning side in a vote went about celebrating the victory. Get over yourselves ffs.
Ian O’Doherty is Nigel Farage’s fat little brother.
Dont forget the SHAME of any kind of joy
it’s almost like they want you to feel BAD about feeling GOOD, weird stuff.
eat the biscuits !
Indeed. Looks like she relieved herself. Trickle down politics again.
That’s people. You’ll always have that. I’ve found most in favour of repealing to be pretty fair in victory. (I was a No voter) You’ll always have ugly triumphalism. It’s [sometimes a side of] human nature. It is right though to keep it in check and the analogy is correct. It did happen.
No the important thing is to make a women-driven campaign being happy they won by a massive margin when everyone said they’d lose or they were doing it wrong or that it would be close and divisive into a bad thing. They’ve been consistently sneering and contemptuous and wrong about the Yes campaign. Why stop now? The truly gracious thing would to let them celebrate their win and acknowledge that it was earned. Can’t have that.
Everyone didn’t say it would lose.
It was divisive.
It wasn’t that divisive.
I voted yes and I felt it
I wasn’t alone in that.
So yes. it was.
it was the most divisive thing i’ve ever experienced in this country
(since saipan)
Jaysus, remember THAT argument
Jaysus BB, No need to actually mention it. It was implied.
Now, lets quitly walk away and not mentio….
MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT
oh god, i just can’t help it
Well, the ‘everyone’ referred to the range of opinions that follows, but thanks for a bit of rhetorical leeway there since I didn’t think literally ‘everyone’ was saying those things, it just felt like it sometimes.
Come on, the general feeling was that it would pass but it would be close.
That turned out to not be the case but there’s no way you can retcon it to the loud majority screaming that this would never pass.
I got a bit tired of the Yes voters who wandered in to comment that they were Yes voters but they were sure it was going to lose because there weren’t enough posters up where they were out walking.
The real question these pundits should be asking isn’t why are these women looking so happy just because they’ve won a 35-year campaign, but why the hell did everyone think this was going to be close? The Yes campaign had to act as if it was going to be close because complacency was and is the enemy, as proven by Brexit and Trump, and a low turnout could have meant the prophecy self-fulfilled. How did the collective punditry and politicians of Ireland get it so wrong?
But no, they need to wag fingers at the women and prophecy the coming doom of a secular tyranny.
@Nigel
“They’ve been consistently sneering and contemptuous and wrong about the Yes campaign. Why stop now? The truly gracious thing would to let them celebrate their win”
And neither should that have happened either. It’s not a school playground. I think that was the point of the commentators originally quoted. Also we are distinguishing between celebrating and triumphalism. The later of which we didn’t see much of but if & when we did it was and always is ugly. So in essence nobody is condemning the Yes side for being victorious, simply suggesting that a little more decorum mightn’t be any harm in certain (very few) factions. Don’t forget criticism was also laid at the door of the 1983 triumphalist victors too.
This
x100
it’s not a feckin’ sport!
Actually none of them, and certainly not you, have made any effort to actually distinguish the two, except to declare one a virtuous category and one a category of vice, and then arbitrarily conflate the behaviour of the Yes side into the two in order to scold the people celebrating their victory because you and the writers above, and I’m disappointed in you for this Fintan, can’t be gracious about them winning, you have to find a way towee on them.
Nigel, Not many are annoyed at the celebrations (well im not anyway) but its comments like CuCullans immediately below this that grate. As well as the absolute scorn pourned on anyone who looks like they may have attended mass once in the last 10 years
+1
Well if they were talking about one commentor on a news aggregator website they should have said so. That’s a lot of column inches by a lot of columnists in response to CuCullan. What a pity they didn’t devote a few paragraphs to some of the behaviour experienced by Yes campaigners while they were canvassing. Oh yeah, because the Yes campaigners who told those stories were at pains to say they were done by a minority and most people were polite and respectful, because the Yes campaign had and has about a million times more grace and class then either the No campaign or the centrist pundits scolding them now.
That’s a very large paragraph based on deliberately ignoring the word ‘like’ Nigel.
That’s why Mark Zuckerberg is rich and I’m not.
“Also we are distinguishing between celebrating and triumphalism. The later of which we didn’t see much of but if & when we did it was and always is ugly.”
If and when? So did you actually see triumphalism or not? And would you care to give some examples?
I was at Dublin Castle on Saturday and I do not believe the mood was one of vengeance or triumphalism. There were more tears shed than you can imagine. The mood was one of overwhelming relief from women. Relief that they had finally been listened to. Relief that they were finally being treated with respect in their own country, after decades of being told by the political and media establishment that they were fringe extremists for wanting control over their own bodies, and after months of being told by the NO campaign that they were murderers who couldn’t be trusted. Relief that we would never again have to live through the horrifying stories that people have shared during this campaign.
And yes, the mood was one of celebration too, for what this result means and for the hard work that was done to achieve it. This was about more than just the 8th Amendment; it was about our long history of the State controlling and abusing women out of some misplaced sense of moral superiority. It was about drawing a big fupping red line under decades of women being shamed and locked up and allowed to suffer and saying, never again. Women have fought for the right to control their own bodies long and hard, back when it was a cold and lonely place to be fighting that battle in the face of a society that just didn’t give a damn. Back when this wasn’t a sexy issue for people like Leo and Simon to get behind. Many women suffered horribly under the 8th and will bear those scars forever. At the very least those women deserve one small opportunity to stand with their sisters in the middle of our capital city and let out a roar to say, we many, we strong, we vibrant and powerful women of Ireland, WE FUPPING DID IT.
This sanctimonious preaching that the celebrations have been “distasteful” is precisely what I have come to expect from the establishment in this country, which has zero empathy for people and very little interest in the actual issues that impact people’s lives. They are more concerned about appearances and about doing things “properly” and about making sure we keep the dregs in their place. Because they are afraid of what real democracy looks like.
Nailed it Barry. Can’t like this comment enough. I wish you ice cream.
+1
I think everyone who voted no is a disgusting sub human who could do the species a favour by extirpating themselves off the planet.. is that triumphant..?
Sounds like sarcasm
I think that everyone who voted no is a sub human who could do the species a favour by extirpating themselves off the planet. Is that triumphant.. ?
Still sounds the same :)
You’re trying too hard..
Whats that thing they say when someone finally fights back from being controlled and bullied? I think they call it an “over-correction”. Kind of like that I guess, in some instances. The relief of standing up for yourself and taking back your autonomy.
Good point
sounds like sour grapes
Is it possible given the resuit that it is you who are the ones who are put of touch?
I thought the singing of “alive alive o” and the Fields of Athenry in Dublin Castle a bit crass now. Maybe I’m just old and my 20% reservation in voting yes makes me a bit of a dinosaur. I’ll get on with it.
Maybe the alive alive o was in reference to the women who will now get treatment?
If ever there was the makings of a good conspiracy, it is the fact that in 35 years, the only recorded death due to the 8th is Savita. Really?
More post truth guff , move on.
Anything to be said for another mass father?
Come on Eileen.
I think they have a point.
We won, we’ve had the weekend to celebrate. Move on and lets not be trying to tar everyone who isn’t waving the repeal shirt around for 2 months as a papist spy
+1
Be grown up about it. it’s abortion boot football.
boot?… should be ‘not’
In some television production company somewhere, a light has just gone off.
“We won”
That’s the problem. It’s not a game. It’s not about yes side and no side.
“The No side conceding’ was a headline over the weekend. Thats utter BS. Its not theirs to concede. Thats people trying to own it. Victory parade BS.
Liberals need to liberally accept others and all their beliefs and opinions.
We’ve managed to unpick piB poor law, created by a constipated political landscape of the early 80s.
It was a Yes/No referendum with adversarial campaigns advocating for either side. One side won, the other lost. It’s not a game. It’s more important than that. If people celebrate the winning of games, why shouldn’t they celebrate even more so after winning something more important than a game? Or, inasmuch as politics is a game, the relevant phrase might be: ‘Don’t hate the player.’
Politics yep sure, but this was a referendum of something so personal, so important to so many people, that rampant celebrations are utterly wrong. The first time that the lack of the amendment, will happen will be a deeply personal moment in some persons life. I’d wager this will be a very sad moment.
Again we’re unpicking a host of poor decisions in law, politics and the land we call home.
And we’ll done us. That’s what they re celebrating, that unpicking. That’s why there’s more relief than triumph.
Liberals are righteous, and by the nature of that righteousness, often slip into intolerance of other views.
i am guilty of a small bit of finger-to-nose nyah nyah-ing, but only to those who keep banging on about the murder of dead babies and excommunication and sin and whatnot. any triumphalism here is more than overshadowed by the sour grapes on there.
complaining about celebration seems like the god fearing catholic conservative reaction that would tie in with the god fearing catholic conservative element of irish society that passing this referendum has helped further us from another step. You are the minority now, shouting at us about our divily ways is in the past and your voice is weak. So moan all you like it won’t change, you don’t have that power anymore.
Back under the troglodyte rock for them.. and good riddance. They think they they can hold this in check.. think again.. this is only the start
As a YES voter I saw no need to celebrate because there is so much pain involved in the decision we have taken. But our decision will mean less pain in the future.
However after decades of having the clerical boot stamp on our necks I for one don’t begrudge anyone who delights in having it removed.
Poppycock! People that are happy with the Yes sides win could never be as condescending and judgemental as the No side were, for years! There was a lot of misinformation and dirty tricks used by the No side too. Not to mention the disgusting posters and encoraging media manipulation from very wealthy US Christian groups, flooding our mobile phones with paid ads more millions.
The No side had it their way for so long. Change is difficult sometimes. Deal with it like an adult and quit moaning.
Of course there was cause for celebration. That women can now go into hospital with the knowledge that their doctor’s hands are not tied by some badly written law must be a weight of their minds.
Although, if the prices quoted in the media for pills and GP consultations are correct, there will still be a fair amount buying them online.
I think a lot of people worked very hard for a long time and are just terribly relieved, euphoric and releasing a lot of tension.
I love that people celebrate winning an overwhelming majority in a democratic referendum is the sign of a new secular tyranny.
+ 1
yep
+706,349
+1
Btw what was with the same 5 faces in all the papers and media outlets?
Lazy, piss poor journalism.
Ah here
Shur’ you’ll see that sorta carry-on at a Robbie Williams gig FFS
BTW
It’s the after Referendum behaviour of prominent No supporters and Campaigners that deserves to be questioned
Ganley and his cuntientious objection to pay taxes
Bishop whatever calling Yes voters sinners
Ara’ stop it lads
The 3rd highest turnout for a referendum in the history of the State
Was no mistake lads
Accept the result
And leave the majority alone to do what the ..ck they want with it
As a simple side note to all this and something which grabbed my attention during this referendum there seemed to be a perception that a “No” voter was somewhat of a devotee to and in automatic alignment with the Catholic Church and its teachings. Now as a someone who voted No I was surprised by the automatic association between the two by the Yes side. I’ve been atheist for as long as I can remember as are many of my friends who also voted No. In fairness most voted Yes. Its interesting to see maybe that possibly a lot of people in the country took this as an opportunity to cast of a long standing veil of Catholic dominance in our recent culture as much as anything else. I wonder if there was a vote to remove Catholic patronage from the various school they run around the country at the moment what the outcome would be! I suspect a similar outcome to the recent referendum. Just a thought!
Out of curiosity, what was your reason for voting no as an atheist? Serious question ….
But you were in alignment, even if you weren’t a believer. The 8th was an artifact of hardline conservative Catholic orthodoxy. Secular opponents of abortion had no business embracing it as a means of preventing abortion, since there were already laws in place, and all the 8th did was prevent compassionate exceptions to so-called ‘hard-cases’ as well as creating other dangerous complications and confusions in relation to women’s health. It may have annoyed you to be reminded that you were supporting something hardline Catholic conservatives created, to the utter detriment of this country, but that was your choice.
It’s a well made point. The same lot are already mobilising to go after the Catholic churches interest in schools and hospitals. Predictable and idiotic to say the least. I’m not Catholic BTW, but I know some intelligent and articulate ones.
As a side, I was walking past a bunch of moronic ‘yes’ ‘ campaigners on Friday. I was with a friend who has been through an abortion. They were all accessorised in their very fashionable Repeal T-shirts. They were playing annoying ukuleles and singing their slogans. One if them started doing some idiotic dance in front of us so I politely told him to get the puck out of my space. We were then mockingly surrounded and screamed at. They assumed I was a No voter. Did I mention the women I was with had an abortion?
They were like many on the yes side. Insensitive, short sighted and riding the latest social movements coattails like the posturing empty heads they are.
So because you know some intelligent and articulate Catholics you feel they have a right to force their views onto everyone else’s children. And you cursed at someone who was dancing in front of you then got offended because they turned? Who was the insensitive one again?
I don’t believe anyone should force their beliefs on anyone, what are you talking about?
so they were correct in their assumption that you were a ‘no’ voter?
I believe in healthcare.
Now as a someone who voted No I was surprised by the automatic association between the [Catholic Church and the No side] by the Yes side.
Is it really surprising when the No side was fronted by the likes of Ronan Mullen, the Iona ‘institute’ and the Pro-Life campaign[1]? All Roman Catholic to the core?
[1] The founding members [of ProLife] were key members of the Pro Life Amendment Campaign which organised and campaigned successfully for the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution (Article 40.3.3) in 1983
Here are the groups that came together in 1981 as the Pro-Life Amendment Campaign (PLAC) to bring in the 8th Amendment. You may notice a theme:
The Knights of Columbanus
The Irish Pro-Life Movement
Tthe Society for the Protection of Unborn Children
The Congress of Catholic Secondary School Parents’ Associations
The Irish Catholic Doctors’ Guild
The Guild of Catholic Nurses
The Guild of Catholic Pharmacists
The Catholic Young Men’s Society
The St Thomas More Society
The National Association of the Ovulation Method
The Council of Social Concern
The Irish Responsible Society
The St Joseph’s Young Priests Society
The Christian Brothers Schools Parents’ Federation
All in all, here are some of the things the Catholic right has opposed in Ireland in recent (!) years:
1920s: The BCG vaccination against a raging chronic pandemic of tuberculosis in Ireland.
1944: Tampons.
1950: The Mother and Child Scheme (a plan for free health care for mothers and children).
1970: Catholics studying in Trinity College.
1973: Married women working in the Civil Service.
1985: Contraception.
1986: Divorce.
1993: Decriminalisation of homosexuality.
1996: Divorce.
2005: The Ferns Report in clerical sex abuse.
2010: Civil partnerships.
2013: Abortion in the case of risk to the mother’s life due to suicide.
2015: Marriage equality (the right for homosexuals to marry).
2018: An end to the equal right of life between a pregnant woman and the foetus she carries.
Nice photo.
Well I’m sorry, ,but I was delighted with the result, and I wont suppress feeling of schadenfreude towards the people who seem to think this country is a ‘catholic country’ , as if that’s even possible….
I will however admit that until this post, those feelings were inside, and will likely remain so from here on out…
30% against Abortion , and Marriage referendum , thats enough for me to believe that the loudest in this society are no longer representative of this society.
Tone policing. SJW. Lefties. Liberals.
Americanisms are the worst. All these twitter experts and their hot takes on hot takes. I wish I had half the time to worry about nothing.
I voted no. So did my wife. It was nothing to do with religion. We are two intelligent, educated people with nuanced views on the subject who came to those positions after much debate and discussion. neither of us would have had a difficulty with repealing the 8th per se, its the legislation proposed we have a difficulty with. Certainly we were influenced by the fact that my wife was born to an unmarried teenage mum who put her up for adoption. we both fear that if that situation was repeated in 2019 and onwards my wife, and by extension, our children, would never have been born. But that’s just our view and 67% of voters had a different view and quite rightly therefore the law will change in line with the wishes of the majority.
I am a virtually lapsed catholic, my wife isn’t in any way religious. The position of the catholic church on this (or in fact any issue) is irrelevant to me. if they were for yes I still would have been no. I do find therefore the automatic linkage between voting no and being catholic very annoying and condescending. I also find the arrogance of some of the yes posters on here breath taking. It is fair enough to attack that bishop, and the iona institute and whomever if they won’t accept the will of the people, but there were many intelligent, well read, educated, rational, well meaning, compassionate and in no way conservative, no voters who were in no way influenced by that crew in deciding to vote no and they should not be ridiculed for having done so. I appreciate its a minority of yes voters I am talking about but they are a vocal minority.
I do find therefore the automatic linkage between voting no and being catholic very annoying and condescending.
Is it really surprising when the No side was fronted by the likes of Ronan Mullen, the Iona ‘institute’ and the Pro-Life campaign? All Roman Catholic to the core?
But its usually the zealots who get involved in actual campaigns. They don’t necessarily represent all, or even most, of those who are voting in the same way as them. Similarly not everyone (or even most) in Dublin Castle last Saturday were Fine Gaelers (the most prominent face of the yes campaign) either. Anyway, I just wanted to point out that not everyone (by some distance) who voted no is a member of the Iona Institute and when people talk of no voters as “them” they are generalising in the exact same way as 1983 vintage pro-lifers did in seeing all (then) no voters as Godless lefties and anarchists.
“Similarly not everyone (or even most) in Dublin Castle last Saturday were Fine Gaelers (the most prominent face of the yes campaign) either. ”
I disagree. FG didn’t have any posters up. The Yes campaign was run by a mix of people – “Together for Yes” was party neutral.
On the TV you had (Late Late) Peter Boylan and journalist Wendy Grace, then Pat Kenny had Regina Doherty and Colm O’Gorman, then TV3 had Mary Lou McDonald, and finally we had Simon Harris;
so where did you get FG as the most prominent face of the yes campaign.
If you’re not a brainwashed person why oh why did you think it ok to vote no. I don’t believe you. Just another catholic pretending to be moderate. I say it to you. You are not fit to walk this Earth with me.
Fair at to you Nuanced for getting your word in here. Respect.
I voted yes.
I will refer you to my point above. Lots of people had hard lives but to vote no makes you little more than scum. Shame on you. And your wife.
people campaigned hard and went through a lot of stress for a long time .. so if people want to celebrate and feel relieved .. do! and don’t let any finger wagging begrudgers of an almost forgotten era stick their oar in.
I was gloatingly triumphant. I stuck yes stickers on no posters and danced up Frederick street north. I regret nothing.
That’s what they don’t like. They want you to feel shame for having won.
they can stick their antiquated shame
I dunno
I wouldn’t say No
t’a bitta shameful
now and again
tis the best kind
and
tis healthy
that’s why I said antiquated
I’m all for a good conscience
do “they” speak to you when you are alone? will you every be free of “them”?
I sense there will always be a “them” – lest you cease to be a virtuous white-knight
No they speak to me through the pages of the papers their columns are printed on you sad buffoon.
Who would have thought ‘they’ turned out to be liberal yes voters!
This is better than scooby doo
Yes. Very disappointed in you rotide. But your Satanic Hitler mask had us really fooled until we worked put you were trying to scare people away from Dublin Castle because the celebrations were triumphalist and vulgar and keeping you awake. Take him away officer!
I actually went to dublin castle on saturday for a while. I had to leave shortly afterwards though to watch the goys beat the scorlets down the aviva.
Referendum was great and all but some things are more important.
‘It couldn’t have been me on the battlements I was watching a sporting event in the company of hundreds of drunken sporting fans!’
‘Yoinks! That alibi seems airtight!’
‘Ruh-roh! ‘
‘Jinkies! And so is this inflatable Satanic Hitler he rigged to float across the sky controlled by an app on his phone!’
‘Looks like you’ll be spending a few years in a hellish bunker Old Man Rotide!’
‘And I’d have gotten away with it too if it weren’t for the App changing its privacy policy!’
I touched a nerve with relative ease.
Do you get out much at all? You know, stretch the legs, look up at the sky, breathe in the air and think life ain’t so bad…or do you sit around all day on your phone dominating social media with a twitching eye?
Says the guy who lives on broadsheet.ie
‘Touched a nerve.’
You need healthier avenues of achieving human contact. It’s quite toxic to say something stupid, get called stupid and count that as an achievement.
Me, I hurt my foot and I’m laid up bored out of my mind thanks for asking. You?
I knew it was you
kicking the bishop up the arse
get well soon foot :)
Thanks Janet. So many bishop’s arses, so few big toes.
yup, from one hegemony to another…
To be fair, she was an absolute Silly.
I’ll say…Electric Picnic is off to an early start.
Vradkar Fail:
“Taoiseach urges against celebratory scenes if public votes in favour of repeal”
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/abortion-referendum/taoiseach-urges-against-celebratory-scenes-if-public-votes-in-favour-of-repeal-36940680.html