The Curious Incident Of The ‘Dead’ Dog

at | 77 Replies

From top: This morning’s Irish Daily Mail; Irish Times

Further to the shooting incident involving a Garda detective in Longford on Monday evening…

Michael Doyle, in The Irish Sun, reports:

“During the incident, what appeared to be a warning shot was fired and Blondie [Christopher ‘Blondie’ Stokes] was hit by a bullet in the foot from a Garda-issue Sig Sauer handgun.

Sources said an Alsatian dog attacked the cop and had to be shot in self-defence…

However…

The injured man’s uncle Ned ‘Sonny’ Stokes, who arrived on the scene minutes later, said no pooch was killed.

He told the Irish Sun: “When I got there, I met the garda and asked him what happened.

“I went over and I saw Chris after being hit in the leg.

“They have two dogs and I could see them tied up at the back, not a bother on them.”

Anyone?

TWO SIDES OF THE TAIL: Family of man wounded by armed garda in Longford say no dog was shot in incident while gardai say mutt was killed in self-defence (Michael Doyle, The Irish Sun)

Yesterday: Meanwhile in Longford

77 thoughts on “The Curious Incident Of The ‘Dead’ Dog

  1. scottser

    if omens count for anything, then the winner of the elvis costello competition should obviously be ‘watching the detectives’.

    Reply
    1. Brother Barnabas

      ah, come on…

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01GnnGFR0zM

      Lucky Dog
      I sucked in my final breath
      Stared into the eyes of death
      Laughed right in the face of chance
      And said hey son do you want to dance

      But I was trembling deep inside
      My faithful friend right at my side
      As that firefight began
      He had the courage of twenty men

      The days are never really done
      The war’s not over until it’s won
      If you want to count on anyone
      Then thank the Lord you’re free

      Who was that lucky dog
      Was it him or me
      Who was that lucky dog
      Was it him or me

      When the enemy is closing in
      And you’ve either got to run or win
      You think that this might be the end
      You’re really going to need a friend

      But I don’t care for fancy words
      Ignoble speeches that I have heard
      Or the lies and tricks that they employ
      What was that you were saying boy

      The days are never really done
      The war’s not over until it’s won
      If you need to count on anyone
      Then thank the Lord you’re free

      Who was that lucky dog
      Was it him or me
      Who was that lucky dog
      Was it him or me

      Reply
      1. Ian-O

        Nope, more sides to this story are emerging, so far, the only fact is that someone was shot in the leg.

        Everything else is subject to a proper inquiry. What is clear though is that AGS have ensured that their word will not be taken as fact without such an inquiry for some time to come for very good reasons.

        So no, no actual facts emerging as you claim above.

        Reply
        1. rotide

          we’re going to get a much better picture of what happened from articles like this and inquiries than from the text of a youtube video

          Reply
          1. Ian-O

            rotide: You mean here we go , the actual facts are starting to emerge.

            rotide: As opposed to FACTS from youtube comments?

            rotide: we’re going to get a much better picture of what happened from articles like this and inquiries than from the text of a youtube video

            Sorry, but first it was facts, then it was inferring that the youtube video was not fully contextual, then it was just partially parroting what I already said about a proper inquiry.

            Watch your step on that climb down.

          2. Rep

            “we’re going to get a much better picture of what happened from articles like this”

            articles like this were AGS leak the type of information they want in the papers.

            Thank god there wasn’t a large tribunal showing that AGS have history of leaking false information to create a narrative they want.

          3. rotide

            I’m not inferring that the youtube video was not contextual, I’m flat out stating it.

            You may also note the use of the word ‘starting’ , with which I am implying that the now that the media are starting to write about it, we can expect some actual information other than what some zealot wrote on his youtube channel.

            @rep Articles like this feature a reporter asking people questions, not leaks from ags

          4. rotide

            The injured man’s uncle Ned ‘Sonny’ Stokes, who arrived on the scene minutes later, said no pooch was killed.

            He told the Irish Sun: “When I got there, I met the garda and asked him what happened.

            The source is literally there in the text right above you.

  2. Eoineyo

    The plot thickens.
    So many questions like, where is the dog? Who shot the dog? Was there ever a dog? Does ‘blondie’ identify as a dog? Who let the dogs out? Should people call their dogs baby? And can they really sense fear?
    The list is endless

    Reply
  3. Eoin

    “senior garda” decided to accompany a pal to a mechanic who’d carried out work on a lorry. Pal didn’t want to pay. Garda pulled gun. Mechanic wedged the lorry-door open and tried to stop pal leaving with the lorry. Garda tried to close door of lorry. Mechanic grabbed Garda to stop him closing the door. Garda shot mechanic. If there was a dog, I couldn’t hear it on the video and you might expect a guard-dog to have something to say about the ruckus that was going on.

    GSOC investigating. Fine.

    Has the Garda been suspended or removed from frontline duty pending an investigation? Has the Garda been questioned in relation to a possible crime? Has the Garda’s firearm been seized and his access blocked to any other firearm?

    Reply
    1. Eoineyo

      I watch the video a couple of times and it does look like the mechanic could be holding a dog, granted a very quiet one, yesterday I did think it plausible that the guard shot the dog and the bullet caught him on the leg.
      I think the main issue is what was the Garda doing there in the first place, he is the cause and the result of the situation getting out of hand and an example of why the Gardaí in general should not be allowed to carry any arms.

      Reply
    2. Praetorian.

      The Garda went with two men to retrive a vehicle which was stolen…start getting the facts…the vehicle was part of the ‘chop shop’ busted in the area over the weekend…the buck who was shot was amongst the individuals questioned about said chop shop…

      Reply
  4. ____

    Whether this guard was attacked by a dog or not, he was crazy reckless to fire off his gun.
    It’s a good example of how they tend to make situations much more dangerous, not safer.

    Reply
      1. Nigel

        They draw a dog, you draw a gun. That’s the Chicago way.

        Since if someone was acting unlawfully and injured a dog or anyone else in the course of that action, it probably wouldn’t matter, ethically, if the dog or the person was going for him when he injured them, the ultimate answer to these questions will depend on what was he doing there, armed, in the first place.

        Reply
          1. Nigel

            Well, exactly. If this was an official operation or an action performed in an official capacity, then I think it’s fair to say the Guards would have lead with it, because once that’s established as a fact, it’s easy enough to justify his actions despite their extremity. The fact that they haven’t suggests a murkier and dodgier reality, and no matter what, the onus is on the Guard to show that his actions are above reproach, even if you could say he was justified in the moment.

          2. rotide

            Should be worth noting that the indo is reporting that the woman drew a slash hook also. Mind you, they also say she is 8 1/2 months pregnant

          3. Nigel

            Was she trying to defend her property/business/person/partner from an armed individual? Or was she attacking a legally empowered agent of the state in the course of lawfully executing his duty? (And the dog. Maybe.)

    1. Brother Barnabas

      i’d consider myself a dog lover

      but if an alsatian had his jaws around any part of me and i happened to be holding a gun (and knew how to use it), i’d shoot the fupper – and i wouldn’t feel too bad about it

      Reply
      1. Ian-O

        Fair enough point, but the issue which it would appear is being glossed over, is why was he there in the first place, was he on active duty or was he waving his gun around to help out a friend.

        There is a word for that and its not ‘community policing’.

        Anyway, the why is important here.

        Reply
        1. Brother Barnabas

          yea, agree completely – even if there in official capacity, hardly appropriate to draw his gun. if things were that bad, he should have left and returned later with others. or got a court order or whatever way it’s meant to be done.

          all i’m saying, though, is that you find yourself in a situation where an alsatian has your scrotum in his mouth, irrespective of the litany of errors on your part that brought things to that point, it’s reasonable enough to shoot him

          Reply
      2. ____

        I wan’t making a point about injuring the dog, though that’s sad.
        My objection is that using a gun made it much more likely that someone would be seriously injured or killed. The guy only getting shot in the leg was lucky.

        Reply
      1. Toe Up

        I don’t know how someone would be successful in choking another person by applying pressure to the back of an individuals neck, as happened in this case.

        Reply
      2. ____

        Defending himself isn’t the point, the point is that using a gun introduced a much greater risk to the situation.
        ie. a dog attack is can lead to injury – probably only minor to moderate, especially as there were others there – definitely nobody was going to die. Bringing a gun into the situation means there’s a very real risk that someone could have been killed. The guy that got shot, and the guard got very, very lucky

        Reply
  5. Catherine costelloe

    Over half a millon of stolen car parts were recovered this week in Longford curiously enough. Maybe the garda wanted to check the engine wasn’t stolen ? No smoke without fire . Maybe….

    Reply
    1. Eoineyo

      Wow, that some amazing over overreaching right there congrats.
      So a crime was committed in a county and some other location in the same county a mechanic was involved in a dispute over an unpaid bill where he got shot for his troubles and this is tied together how, because they were in the same county and both involved car or vans???

      Reply
      1. Rep

        The injured party is a traveller so all you have to do it paint a very vague, blurry picture and peoples bias will fill in all the blanks.

        Reply
        1. Cian

          The accused party is a guard so all you have to do it paint a very vague, blurry picture and peoples bias will fill in all the blanks.

          Reply
      2. Catherine costelloe

        I’ll accept that!! It’s only an opinion as the article here states same premises raided by armed response unit in the past.

        Reply
    2. Nigel

      Since there has been no indication from the Guards that the detective was acting in any sort of official capacity, I’d say probably not. This isn’t a smoking fire, it’s a smoking gun barrel.

      Reply
  6. Eoin

    “Members of the force [service, surely?] have been regular visitors to the home where the incident took place” says the Irish Times.

    The same media-Garda loop that was exposed in the Charleton tribunal is alive and thriving in December 2018.

    Reply
    1. Ian-O

      Quite. The mealy mouthed language and the lack of journalistic questioning about the why of his attendance at this ‘incident’ is telling.

      I’m sure Paul Reynolds and Paul ‘probably sacked from Newstalk’ Williams will be on hand with an in-depth report they were handed by the Garda Press office soon enough.

      Reply
  7. edalicious

    I find it astonishing that in that video, if there was a dog there, that you can’t see or hear it at all. But at the same time yer man clearly looks like he’s holding a dog by the collar and, when the gard’s tie is pulled, it’s definitely being pulled down in a downward, dogward direction. The gard also says something along the lines of “make it let go of me…” and I’d be equally astonished if, in such a fraught moment, he was so conscious of the optics of the situation and had the forethought to invent, in a split second, the story that he was shooting at a dog so he’d be able to point to that after the fact and lessen the fallout from the incident.

    Still though, a great example of how, even with video evidence, two completely contradictory stories can be told.

    Reply
    1. Ian-O

      There was a great advert for I think the Guardian newspaper from a few decades back which shows a man running towards another man in the street and tackling him.

      Initially, from one angle, it looks like assault, but then they show the other angle and he is actually saving the man from (I think) falling scaffolding.

      Reply
      1. Brother Barnabas

        fair point

        someone on Twitter said he pulled his tie only to get him to duck his head down so he didn’t get hit by a meteorite

        Reply
  8. postmanpat

    Alsatian? Its a German Shepard ffs. What’s this? the 1940s war time Britain sticking it to the krauts? Nice dog too, if your into that kind of thing , although frog legged and more hemophiliac than the British royal family from all the inbreeding. Look up pictures of a 1940s German Shepard to the ones today, the differences in hind legs is shocking. In another 20 years they will be even more bangley legged deformed. Pure (in)breeders and customers of these things are the stupidest people in the country.

    Reply
  9. newsjustin

    A part of the problem is that the guard had his gun drawn for quite a while as an ornament to the scuffle, rather than having it drawn (if would seem) because he feared for his life. If he or those around were in real danger, he should have drawn his weapon to actively defend himself or those around him.

    I don’t think the Gardaí are issued guns for crowd control purposes.

    Reply
    1. Cian

      We don’t know what happened prior to the video – something caused him to upholster the gun.

      For the duration of the video (apart from when he shoots) we can’t see the gun – it seems to be pointed down at the ground beside him. He wasn’t brandishing the gun, or using it threateningly – until his tie was pulled.

      Reply
      1. Nigel

        It seems to me that once the gun was drawn he should have been either arresting someone or withdrawing to a point of safety and summoning backup.

        Reply
          1. Nigel

            If he was there, armed, as part of the execution of his lawful duties, he would have called for backup as soon as the situation required the drawing of a firearm, if not before,in fact it seems unlikely that he would have gone there without at least one other officer or detective, but if he was there as muscle for his friend he was never going to call for backup, but allow the situation to escalate dangerously for everyone involved.

          2. Cian

            I agree that if he were there in a personal capacity there are no reasons that he should have been armed. And they should throw the book at him.

  10. Truth in the News

    According to certain reports the incident occurred at 6.00pm, how come it was bright
    or is there anomly with sunsets in Longford, what was a lone armed Guard doing there
    in the first place after the previous seizures a few days earlier, these items should have
    been impounded subject to further inquiries and the application of due process.
    No one should have been allowed to drive away with anything or go near the place
    Perhaps it might be possible to get Mr O’Keefe to get to the bottom of it and indeed
    find the Dog:

    Reply

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