62 thoughts on “De Saturday Papers

          1. bisted

            …no mystery…except there is a scale of charges…and an inverse relationship between the hourly charge and the amount of work done…

          2. newsjustin

            Of course there is. When you’re building a house, you don’t have electricians on site 12 hours a day sweeping up and moving timber.

          3. bisted

            …absolutely yes…we could recruit personnel from departments in the system…train them with the latest forensic accountancy skills…and give the department a name…something like the Comptroller and Auditor General…

          4. SOQ

            The state and semi state sector are renown for this. They recruit a consultancy firm, tell them the result they want, then they have a scapegoat if it goes belly up.

            In fairness, the state sector does not have the flexibility of private. Once it goes to tender it is quite difficult to change and all interested parties must be notified about any amendments. That still doesn’t explain this sort of over run mind.

            It sounds like it turned in a consultancy feeding ground (Irish Water mark II?) and it was up to the civil service and the respective minister to ensure that did not happen.

          5. harry

            Exactly no mystery which is the problem
            The childrens hospital review will not assign blame
            That is unacceptable
            Maybe ministers need sacking
            Do we really need these ministers to negotiate our future
            Its time for another election

          6. scottser

            On large scale developments there is usually a system of penalties built in if contracts aren’t delivered on, surely? Or am I being naive?

          7. SOQ

            Yes there should be but the problem with drawing up procurement specifications is not what you include, but what you omit and by the looks of it, in this case, quite a lot.

            In any construction or civil engineering I have been involved with, the contractors usually undercut each other at tender with the hope of making it up on change orders later on. These are decided by an agreed arbitrator but that is at the end of a project, not the beginning.

            Over run of this scale, at this stage, is unheard of. Some people knew long before a single shovel was placed in the ground so it is either corruption or incompetence, or a mixture of both. If we cannot afford to pay nurses leaving our country then we sure as hell cannot afford to pay for this.

            Journalists should right now be digging hard (pun) to find out who, what and when. Oh and most importantly, why?

    1. Giggidygoo

      The ay things go with this governments ‘calculatiobs’, the final bill will be €2.5m for the report. Or even more – they could do with it to pay the fine they were given last year https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/pwc-fined-6-5m-over-audit-of-bhs-before-retailer-s-collapse-1.3528960
      Although it wouldn’t make much inroads to another fine in the US https://www.reuters.com/article/us-at-t-directv-now/pwc-must-pay-fdic-625-3-million-over-banks-collapse-u-s-judge-idUSKBN1JS2CB
      Yet these are what FFG go to.

    2. Eoin

      That’s only the initial estimate. By the time they add in expenses and change the terms of reference and VAT, it will be €2 million.

  1. Leo

    It’s almost as though the government likes giving away huge cash payoffs to private consultants as a matter of course…
    I wonder if that had anything to do with the overspend? Nah. Probably not

      1. bisted

        …absolutely yes…we could recruit personnel from departments in the system…train them with the latest forensic accountancy skills…and give the department a name…something like the Comptroller and Auditor General…

  2. Eoin

    When Harris says there will be “personnel changes”, he obviously isn’t referring to himself even though he is the minister and the buck stops with him. Bit like the Saudi prince overseeing the investigation into the killing of that journalist in Turkey.

    1. millie st murderlark

      I would wager yes.

      Dana White knows which side his bread is buttered on. Conor McGregor’s big mouth has made him and the ufc so much money. It’s a quick buck for both of them.

    2. millie st murderlark

      Also, Eoin, not sure if you saw it, but apologies for my sarky comment yesterday. I misread yours and thought to respond in kind, so to speak.

    3. bertie blenkinsop

      “Will McGregor ever fight again?”

      I’d say his next big fights will be in Phoenix House.

    4. ReproBertie

      McGregor has a 6 month suspension from the UFC which is utterly meaningless given he has no fights lined up nor even the mention of a fight. I think he’s done and we’ll only be seeing him on the front pages now.

      1. johnny

        She has the power of miracles, kooky lady but has large following in LA/NY not sure she will translate in the fly over states, old Joe ain’t gonna make much of a run,too many skeletons rattling around.

      1. GiggidyGoo

        A nodding head.
        The chief procurement fellow will probably end up with the bean counters in Brussels.

    1. SOQ

      300m for ICT- They forgot to include it in the original figures??? How was a modern hospital supposed to function without computers? Was the IT network even included in the plans?

      1. Cian

        In fairness – IT changes so quickly a system that was designed 4 years ago is already out-of-date. Licencing models change too – so you can’t predict how much is will cost.

        Saying that they should have a guesstimate on how much IT would cost.

        1. SOQ


          Networking and record/document technology has not changed in at least 10 years. Licencing models have moved to rental but ongoing projected yearly costs would not been included.

          Accurate IT vendor figures were definitely known.

          1. Johnny

            Duh-cause they not construction costs that’s why,can you dial back the hysteria and grandiose statements,your wrong as usual-from above link.
            ‘The Children’s Hospital has been at the centre of controversy since it emerged that construction costs soared from €983m to more than €1.4bn. Another €300m is due to be spent fitting out the hospital with ICT equipment. The total cost is expected to be more than €1.7bn.‘

          2. SOQ

            I design then build your house, Then I say that the electrics were not included. Later I casually drop that the plumber needs paying but it was not part of the grand design because you did not read the fine print.

            Whom on this issue sandpapered your anus please? I am up for it btw.

          3. Johnny

            You can’t design or build anything,that’s just a stupid analogy,you wait for the bus in Tallaght,FFS!
            Base plumbing and electrical is included in the construction costs,why are you conflating issues and using idiotic analogies,it’s not a house and plumbing has nothing do with this nor does base electrical.
            The costs for the IT are always,always excluded from the base construction costs,that’s just common sense duh.

          4. SOQ

            The total cost includes everything dharling, that is why the word TOTAL is included.

            Now in what ever part of US you claim to be, I suggest you have a nice cup of camomile tea ask yourself why at this stage, you need to still have an online identity here in Ireland?

            Otherwise the Irish News genuinely values your contribution, once a month, now and then.

          5. Johnny

            ah great thanks for that,when you wonder why your waiting for the bus in Tallaght and I’m waxing my board in Malibu,have a look at the above:)
            You haven’t a clue about large scale construction projects,a house and plumbers omg,stop just stop,I’m embarrassed for you.

          6. Cian

            “Networking and record/document technology has not changed in at least 10 years”

            If you believe this would you choose to design in 10-year-old technology into a hospital that will be opened in 5 years?

            Document technology has changed in the last 10 years. The new hospital is a chance to change the way patient records are handled. Get rid of all physical records. Have touchscreens in each room. Need an x-ray? the image is available before you get back to your room. Want a second opinion? Secure video conferencing of patient to another doctor. Bounce all the records to them – if they are elsewhere in the hospital, in one of the two offsite locations, or anywhere in the world.

          7. SOQ

            Ok well if you could point me to where document management has radically changed in the past ten years I would be very interested in reading it. There are a lot of sales pitches about cloud which is just third party storage but in a case like this, I expect they will be using the government’s own data centre on Conyngham road so such would not be of relevance.

            The RVH in Belfast migrated to a soft copy system about 4 years ago and I am pretty sure the cost wasn’t nearly that high. In fairness that was only record management with little additional networking and on a green field site like this, there would be a lot of other specialist data to be considered. But, they would be plugged into the government’s software agreements which means a lot cheaper licensing. Under that you can get Microsoft products for example, for next to nothing.

            One point on new technology. I know of one company who moved to Citrix Wyse thin clients which was an absolute disaster. Citrix claim it was due to the way in which it was implemented (by a third party) but my point is that because something is new, does not necessarily make it better. Although, I expect there is an international ICT model for hospitals that they are following, at least I hope they are.

      2. bisted

        …300 million for ICT…someone is having a laugh…the entire HSE with all its hospitals won’t have spent 300 million since its inception…

          1. bisted

            …the full implementation of PPARS was 9million…that costs escalated and it never delivered should have taught a valuable lesson for public service procurement…as someone said recently, building a hospital is not rocket science. No better place for implementing tried and tested solutions…especially ICT…

          2. Cian

            Yeah. It almost hit the 300m you said the HSE total spend was.

            It did teach a lot of lessons. Has any other government project since had an overspend anywhere near 2000%

          3. bisted

            …the highest, most outrageous, pick a figure out of your Drumm and double it, was 200m…but sure whats 100m when its only public money…

  3. Catherine costelloe

    The nurses must be sick to their back teeth at the overspend fiasco ….Is Mr Costello’s resignation supposed to ease public disquiet ? Far from it.

  4. Casual Guy

    Actually, if you read the first, the second and/or the fourth paragraph you will learn that they ‘RECOVERED’…

    I’m not a pedant obsessed with semantics myself…
    Enjoy your weekend.

    1. Papi

      Recovered would mean the guards put it there, wouldn’t it? Semantically speaking.
      I wish you a good weekend also.

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