South African runner and double Olympic and World Champion Caster Semenya
BBC reports:
Caster Semenya has lost a landmark case against athletics’ governing body meaning it will be allowed to restrict testosterone levels in female runners.
The Court of Arbitration for Sport (Cas) rejected the South African’s challenge against the IAAF’s new rules.
But Cas said it had “serious concerns as to the future practical application” of the regulations.
Olympic 800m champion Semenya, 28, said in response to the ruling that the IAAF “have always targeted me specifically”.
“For a decade the IAAF has tried to slow me down, but this has actually made me stronger. The decision of Cas will not hold me back,” the statement continued.
Caster Semenya: Olympic 800m champion loses appeal against IAAF testosterone rules (BBC)
Read the Cas decision in full here
Finally some common sense prevailing. Men should not be allowed to compete in women’s sports categories. Segregation is necessary to maintain a fair and balanced competition.
She’s not a man, she’s technichaly intersex but I agree with your overall thought.
Yes at first I assumed she was transsexual but apparently not.
I honestly thought she was born a man too, until I saw a detailed report. It’s really unfortunate for her, but I think that the Sports Governing bodies are trying to put a hold on others who were born men, transitioned to women, then want to take part in women’s athletics. Which is completely unfair on women, and it would really put their sports into complex disrepute. Men have different physical and biological advantages over women, ie: bigger frames, longer reach, bone density, muscles, so a transitioned athlete would dominate over the other women in their field.
yep I went for a run with a younger less active adult male yesterday, thought I’d have the edge cause of training etc, just about leveled the playing field, an eye opener, reminder of advantages and lesson in humility ( another one lol )
Younger less attractive eh? Hmm
I deleted a very rude reply about bottom watching being a perk of coming a tight second
Damn.
This has nothing to do with common sense.
We all produce testosterone and oestregen, women can produce testosterone in the adrenal glands as well as the ovaries.
Many women competitors produce “high” levels of testosterone according to the same tests as Caster Semenya took so this is a difficult judgment to make,
not some airy dismissal of opinions.
+1.
More muscle, more testosterone, more testosterone, more muscle.
Maybe the answer is in female steroid free body building?
…pollux…
That photo is a perfect illustration of why it isn’t a level playing field
In what way?
You can’t see how she is different to the other girls?
Say what you like about her but that womans got balls.
So they do drug tests to make sure athletes aren’t using chemicals to artificially boost hormone production, and when they’re caught it’s an enormous scandal and devalues sport, except for this one athlete, who now has to use chemicaks to artificially repress natural hormone production in order to compete. Seems fair and well though out.
I feel sorry for her, it’s not her fault she is the way she is but she definitely has an advantage over other competitors.
The issue comes with definiing how much of an advantage people have before deciding it’s unfair and what are the limits of it. Do Rift Valley africans have an unfair advantage in distance running? Does anyone of West African Descent have an unfair advantage in sprints? Europeans in swimming? Eurasians in Weightlifting?
I honestly don’t know a lot about this, but how is her testoerone level any more or less of the sort of physical competitive advantage that a tall person has over a shorter person, or a person born and raised at a high altitude has over a person born and raised at a lower altitude? If she’s qualified to compete, allow her to compete, this smacks of the sort of dystopian artificial handicaps we were warned would be imposed on people as the ultimate logical outcome of people arguing for equality and fairness.
I guess that’s the question I’m asking Nigel.
“If she’s qualified to compete”
That’s what this CAS case was all about. Is she qualified.
nigel ‘I honestly don’t know a lot about this , but’…
you’re some can of wee wee Nigel
Have a sip, see if you can measure the testosterone.
I think what Nigel probably means is he doesn’t know much about relative testostorne levels and their interactions with muscle mass and bone density.
Im willing to bet that’s not exactly your mastermind specialist subject either.
Actually, what I don’t know much about is the history of intersex people competing in professional sprots. Is she the first? The only? Is she being subjected to performance inhibiting drugs because she is a unique outlier they don’t know how to deal with, or because she’s succesful? If intersex athletes have an intrinsic unfair advantage and have been competing regularly in womens sports, surely they would have been dominating noticeably by now? If she’s unique, how can they possibly have enough data to conclude she has an unfair advantage intrinsic to intersex athletes? Will all female athletes now be subjected to tests to measure and control their natural hormone levels? Will female atheletes with well-developed pituitary glands no longer be classed as female?
One solution is to remove the male/female categorisation only have one category: people.
Another solution is to declare anyuone intersex should compete in the mens events. I’d be willing to bet the athletes would be finding ways to take the very same drugs nigel is talking about to remain in the womens events.
The “problem” is that if we want to spit the competitors into two categories we need to decide on where to draw the line. It was a straightforward male/female split and 70 years ago (before drug testing/surgical ops) it was easy to see (literally) which category someone was in.
Now the line is blurred (albeit a smallnumber of sportspeople) depending on how you define “male” (or “female”). All you (@rotide) are suggesting is moving the line. But even with a moved line there will still be individuals meet the new ‘female’ criteria… but for whatever reason have physical attributes that are deemed “male” and give an (unfair) advantage. So the line will need to be moved again and again.
I honestly don’t know what buzz she gets from competing in races when she has such an advantage with her levels of testosterone over any competitor- how can her victories not seem hollow? Take the hormone suppressants and if you can still beat the competition then you would actually feel some degree of satisfaction.
Suppressants only change the levels now- She has had a life time of advantage in muscle growth etc.
It’s a strange one, I don’t think anyone really has the answer.
Semenya is going to lose out here, which is unfortunate. She is intersex, she hasn’t done or taken anything to have an advantage over her fellow athletes.
I think she is in an entirely different situation to trans athletes – trans woman competing in women’s sports. Thats completely nonsensical and unsustainable.
Genuine question, I’d be interested to know – are there any examples of trans men competing in men’s atheletics/sports? If so, how have they done?
Well said newsjustin. You summed it up perfectly.
I was overdue a good one Millie :-)
Ah you were, in fairness ;)
Nail on the head newjustin. It’s unfortunate for Samenya but intersex people are a tiny, tiny percentage and the TRA’s are using it to muddy the waters. Then you have the usual, useful idiot, white knight,woke types who don’t know what they are on about, but wade in anyway because they think it’s the right thing to do and it makes them feel good. They really ain’t helping.
They’re threatening to destroy women’s elite-level sports is what they are doing.
Not just elite level newsjustin unfortunately. Thankfully some women are standing up to this, despite the threats and intimidation form very well organised TRA’s.
I have a similar question to the one I asked above. How many trans atheletes are there in professional sports, and how long have they been allowed to compete as their identified gender? Has anyone measured performances and outcomes across the board, and if they have do they show trans female atheltes overwhelmingly dominating in female sports, as you might expect given the assumption that they have an overwhelmiong and unfair advantage? If trans men undergo hormone treatments that boost their testosterone, wouldn’t obliging them to compete as women, er, give them exactly the advantage trans women competing as women are supposed to have? And don’t trans women undergo hormone treatments that suppress testosterone, which is exactly what Semenya is being obliged to do?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6765965/Rapper-beats-female-weightlifting-records-identifying-woman.html
I don’t know how many there are but here is someone highlighting just how ridiculous the situation could become
peter beardsley scored 227 career goals in 600+ appearances so didn’t do too bad
What is your point?
Imagine if he was allowed to compete in women’s football, he could have scored thousands of goals.
you know very well what my point is
peter beardsley, who’s intersex (back then it was all about hermaphrodites), competed at the very top of male professional sport. And did very well too.
GTFO, I have literally never heard that before.
Do you have any links to back that up?
Searching Peter Beardsley Intersex gives this page as the third link, so im calling shenanigans
the lad’s entitled to his privacy
that’s all I’m saying
your talking boo boos
no boo boos
that’s the whole point
yet he still managed to be the geordie ronaldinho
explain that please
I just think it’s all very gaudy tbh
The girl just wants to compete
What’s she supposed to do?
Athletes
All ov’ em
Women Men Trans Inter Special, Blind, Deaf, Paraplegic
Or from the Déise
Suppose Mayo too
But whoever shares the field
All athletes train and compete on the premise that there is always going ta’ be someone
Better Fitter Faster Stronger
So
One-way or another
That’s accepted by anyone giving it a lash
And it’s a given at this elite level
Lay’ve her alone t’ get on with it
If her fellow competitors have an objection
Find a other event
And see how good ye are then
women’s 800m world record holder, Kratochvilova check her out, hench
it’s a genetic advantage, basta
transgender is a different kettle of fish
How does the categorisation work in The Special Olympics? I’m not talking gender here but the basics- like limbs.
haven’t a Danny