131 thoughts on “De Tuesday Papers

  1. some old queen

    Without the knowledge let alone consent of parents- some of which hold religious and/or ethical beliefs which would prevent them from eating Halal or Kosher meat- it is currently being rolled out into Irish schools- under the guise of hot meals.

    That it is being served in classrooms where children of non vegetarian faiths cannot eat such so are being identified as ‘other’- that nobody has asked where the additional funding for Halal or Kosher has come from- that parents appear to have no choice- is without their permission absolutely not acceptable .

    I suggest you check if the attended school is planning to feed this cruelty to your child and if so- with others- petition to remove the principle and/or school board.

    1. Cian

      What, the school is feeding my children without telling me?

      Clutches pearls!

      *edit: unclutches pearls. Phew!
      This is only in the Democratic People’s Republic of Ireland

    2. Listrade

      What’s the beef (geddit?) with Halal?

      If you post youtube or facebook in response, I’m not going to take you seriously.

          1. some old queen

            Absolutely- people have a right to their religious beliefs in both directions but neither should have the right to impose their views on others. And even then, a lot of other people will not buy Halal or Kosher meat for ethical reasons.

            I am pretty certain what the opinion of most parents would be but for some peculiar reason, MSM is not covering this issue- at all.

          2. Pfaf

            because it’s a non issue
            People don’t care if their kids eat horsemeat
            Betting you don’t have any
            You’d know that the main objective is to get kids to eat anything other than junk at regularly spaced intervals in the first place

          1. Ghost of Yep

            Religion aside Cian, people may have a problem with how halal meat is produced. Many consider it inhumane. Are they to be ignored?

          2. Cian

            Religion aside? Both you and SOQ brought religion into it.

            If you’re going down the humane route – how humane is chicken production (in Ireland)? How humane is fishing?

          3. Listrade

            @Cian, this is where I’m confused. I’ll plead ignorance for more modern practices, but having some experience of the food industry, I don’t see what the controversy is.

            We saw from the farmer protests that most food production is among a very small group of large companies. The only difference in Halal meat production was that it was blessed, it was slaughtered the exact same way: stunned, then throat slit, then bled out. Once a week they’d have someone come into bless the production and that would be the Halal meat. Then (won’t name the company) realised that rather than pay to have it blessed and incur costs, they could record the blessing and then just play it over the radio speaker for free.

            Vegetarian food is Halal anyway and doesn’t require anything additional except for not containing things like soya or vanilla due to fermentation and potential alcohol content. Halal soft drinks used to be a thing due to tiny amounts of alcohol in the concentrate, but again that was all done away with.

            SDQ linked to something about Cadbury. Well so what? It’s tinkering with ingredients to maximise their sales. We did the same for vegans on a whole range of things and didn’t try to start a religious war over it. I want my fries done in beef dripping, I can’t get it because of those damned snowflake vegetarians. Time to start a new crusades.

            I’m open to correction, but I don’t get the controversy. The chicken/cow is killed the same way, except it might have someone blessing it. Is the blessing the controversy?

          4. some old queen

            @ Listrade- the animal has its throat cut and may take a couple of hours to die a painful death. Some are stunned but true Halal means they are not. I assume there is some sort of exemption for the religious killing of these animals because there certainly are rules in place for normal slaughters.There is quite a difference in the amount of suffering between the two.

            @ Cian- The act of serving of only Halal or Kosher meat to non Muslim or non Jewish children brings religion into it- how could it not?

          5. Cian

            @SOQ “animal has its throat cut and may take a couple of hours to die a painful death.”
            Evidence please?

            If an animal has its throat slit it bleeds out in minutes. It will be unconscious in seconds.

            There is no way of distinguishing Halal from Kosher from other meat. So your point is moot.

          6. Listrade

            @SDQ

            Halal is certified. All major meat processors stun animals. Their products are Halal certified and slaughtered in the exact same ways with the only exception that Halal meat is blessed. I accept that there may be smaller meat producers who do not stun. But we are literally at a point where over 80% of Halal meat (and all meat) is produced via the bigger meat production companies. By the way, stunning an animal was formally permitted in 2012, you may have missed that on facebook.

            You are picking out a few smaller examples as being proof of an overall rule of cruelty. And none of which has anything to do with Cadbury.

          7. Listrade

            @ Cian “If an animal has its throat slit it bleeds out in minutes. It will be unconscious in seconds.”

            Correct, however, only if done properly. Slaughter involves cutting the major arteries and trachea in one single slice. That would not under any circumstances involve being alive suffering for hours…if done properly.

            What SDQ and others don’t mention are the “humane” aspects to prevent distress to animals such as being led into slaughter properly (not herded in together), laid down and slaughtered away from other animals. Take a look at the slaughter methods for big food processors and ask which shows the most respect to animals.

          8. Ghost of Yep

            @ cian

            Religion is already inherent in the discussion. I said “belief system “. This can include but is not exclusive to religious belief. It’s the stunned or not stunned question. It’s worth reading about. There is certainly a difference between the 2.

          9. some old queen

            @Cian- I am not going to post the youtube videos on here as they are horrific- you can search for yourself. Animals do not bleed out in a couple of minutes no more than humans do- and even if they were stunned- some do wake up.

            @Listrade- likewise my comment on stunning above.

            You can split hairs all you want but the majority of people will not buy it so why should be forced onto their children without their consent?

            And as for the religious angle- I’d like to see them try this is certain parts of the north where it would be considered blasphemy. I’m actually arguing for the bible bashers? Well- that’s a first. Ha.

    1. Cú Chulainn

      The seagulls get a day off only to be replaced by Vultures.. abet the human sort, but we have Jodie killing it.

      1. Rosette of Sirius

        Regardless, it’s how many of today’s youth feel about their future.

        When we’re all dribbling geriatrics I don’t expect they’ll be terribly helpful as we’re struggling with our incontinence nappies.

        In 5 years this entire generation will be voters, replacing many thousands of predominantly conservative dead geriatrics.

        Change is a comin’.

    1. eoin

      Sounds like a speech every teenager should learn by heart.

      “I have to put up the Xbox and do my homework? You have stolen my dreams, my childhood, how dare you…”
      “I can’t go to the teen disco on Friday night? You have stolen my dreams, my childhood, how dare you…”
      “Pasta arrabiata? Where’s the fishfingers and chips? you have stolen my dreams, my childhood, how dare you…”

      1. Janet, I ate my avatar

        all I know is that my heart breaks for the poor girl, she’s clearly sincere and it’s painful to watch, no child should have to deal with that responsibility

          1. MaryLou's ArmaLite

            Being right? nobody stole her dreams or childhood, she wasn’t forced into anything, she made her choices

          2. Nigel

            She’s sixteen. This mess is one she inherited. None of her choices created it. A bit like those of us born during the Cold War under the threat of nuclear aopcalypse had no say or choice in the matter. Did you know that it was Stanislav Petrov’s birthday on September 7th? Theres’s someone who made a choice and saved the world. That’s the sort of choice she’s trying to make.

    2. GiggidyGoo

      I wonder if she is referring to her parents who may have pushed her into this. She seemingly spent fridays in front of the swedish parliament protesting when she was younger- when she should perhaps have been at school.

      1. bisted

        …shame she hadn’t been in the Irish school system…the reduced hours because of her AHD would have left her loads of free time for protesting…

        1. Nigel

          Well you’re not making sly insinuations about her and her family because you’re filled with good vibes and positivity.

    1. shayna

      …also, don’t be tempted to click into the blue link – it takes you to Journal.ie (it’s a whole different sphere). I kinda warned, didn’t I?

    1. V

      I just worry for the girl herself
      Its really distressing to see her like this
      And the attention she is attracting
      Most of it unhealthy and putting her own welfare and wellbeing at risk

      She will never be allowed have a normal like
      In as much as she can with her diagnosis

      I don’t know how public health authorities
      Somewhere
      Haven’t stepped in
      This is abuse of a minor
      And a vulnerable minor is at risk

      I don’t care who the perpetrators are at this stage

      1. Nigel

        No-one with half a brain and an ounce of empathy isn’t worried about her and for her, but repeating this nasty slander about her being abused and needing to be taken into care is incredibly irresponsible. There are plenty of people hostile to her saying that sort of thing and worse, you’re not doing her any favours by joining in.

        1. Curious Gerogina

          She said it herself – she should be at school.

          Why do her parents allow her to be paraded in front of the worlds media repeating lies about the non-existant climate emergency?

          1. Nigel

            Because climate change denialists and the fantasy of endless economic growth and consumption have prevented the world from enacting the kind of policies and changes to counter-act climate change leaving us with less and less time to enact those changes and policies?

          2. Curious Gerogina

            Still lying.

            Show the evidence of the so-called climate emergency, then definitively link it to the consumption of hydrocarbon fuels – or go back to school with Greta.

          3. Nigel

            Okay. Can you see the evidence I’m holding up to you right now? And over here I’m holding up the definitive link. There you go.

          4. Curious Gerogina

            I see nothing excpet yyour big fact surrender.

            No facts, no evidence, just more nonsense trolling from the most boring troll ever.

        2. V

          I’m not repeating anything Nidgie
          I’m commenting on my own behalf
          Albeit with a very clear conflict – I am the parent of a 15 yr old girl too
          But that is the only possible influence

          I, and you should know this by now, always form my own opinion, I’m the last person you’ll see following a herd

          She is clearly getting more and more distressed
          She is crying publically ffs

          Christ, it would break my heart to see a whimpering dog in front of cameras and hashtagged for a divisive political agenda
          wtf would I be behind the door when its a teenage girl

          Do you think because I’m not cheering her on that I’m lacking in moral integrity or am incapable of empathy?

          1. Nigel

            You talk about the unhealthy attention she is attracting. Some of that unhealthy attention takes the form attacking her and her family by labelling her a victim of abuse, and labelling them abusers which can’t be particularly nice for her or her family, and which you just repeated. I’ve no doubt whatsoever that you’re coming from a place of empathy and good faith. But throwing out an accusation of family abuse like that with no evidence other than her speaking emotionally about a subject which is clearly important to her, is pretty serious, even when it doesn’t echo the very public, nasty, bad faith abuse being directed at her by the right, and others.

          2. Bodger

            Nigel, the Greta thing is so obviously contrived (even you privately must see that). That’s what has people annoyed. Her parents (not regular Stockholm folk by any stretch) are in on it so that’s why they are being criticised.

          3. Nigel

            I don’t know what to tell you, Bodger, but what’s ‘obvious contrived’ might not be all that easily agreed between people who think Sandy Hook was a false flag, the moon landings were faked and Hilary Clinton’s staff were ordering child sex slaves from a pizza parlour, and people who do not think those things.

          4. Bodger

            ‘Hilary Clinton’s staff were ordering child sex slaves from a pizza parlour’

            This, as you know from the last time you left, is deliberate misdirection and making light of child rape. Exactly like the pervert Dr Pizza.

            Why did you come back here if it was merely to troll me and others? You must have been happier at The Journal?

          5. White Dove

            Not to mention those who don’t agree with Vincent Bugliosi’s account of the Manson killings.

            There’s a new book out on this. Bugliosi doesn’t come out well out of it. It looks like there was some official involvement with Manson. No surprise to those of us you’d call ‘conspiracy theorists’.

            One only of a number of examples coming to light at present.

            The world is changing, Nigel. For the better. Get with it!

            And read those emails again! No one writes like that about pizza!

          6. Nigel

            You and White Dove need to get your theories straight, Bodger. Are you telling me that Pizzagate was not about that? Is the comparison with the predator (In the same breath as accusing someone else of making light of child rape) supposed to drive me away? Isn’t this all proving my point? Your insinuations about her family are vague, knowing, gnomic and rest on amibiguous appeals to knowledge that is both hidden and shared, obvious and secret.

          7. Bodger

            Nigel, pizzagate is about about child rape and trafficking. Nothing to do with actual pizza other than code.

            But you know all that and yet you persist on coming here to abuse me and others in this fashion. And then whine when people respond to your idiocy.

            I have never enjoyed your presence here not because I think you are pervert (you may well be). It’s because I find you an unimaginative, sad and cruel troll.

          8. V

            With respect Nidgie
            I think I’m entitled to be upset about a teenage girl crying publicly without you dragging me into anything else

            Ta,
            and glad to see you amongst us again.
            V

          9. Nigel

            Bodger, Pizzagate was a conspiracy that stated the Clinton campaign were ordering children from a pizza parlour. That is literally what it was. Accusing people who inconveniently remember this of being perverts won’t change that. Other than that I’m gratified to find we seem to have an equally low opinion of each other.

          10. Nigel

            V, with respect, you accused her famly of abuse and said she should be removed from them. That’s all I’m dragging you into, but I’ve made my point so let’s move on.

            Thanks!

          11. V

            I have to work with enough apes trying to put words in my mouth Nidge
            And they aren’t the better of it – most of the time

            So knock it of with your you accused her famly of abuse and said she should be removed from them

            That isn’t even in the same parish of anything I posted here

            And if you want to stay on my T1_s
            remember they are now referred to my Magnificent Orbs

          12. Cian

            @V you posted:
            I don’t know how public health authorities
            Somewhere
            Haven’t stepped in
            This is abuse of a minor
            And a vulnerable minor is at risk

            Which isn’t a million miles from “you accused her family of abuse and said she should be removed from them. ”

            Perhaps if you wrote proper English sentences you wouldn’t be misunderstood.

          13. V

            watching a Minor crying and doing nothing is abuse
            and she has a diagnosis that does make her even more vulnerable

            my child can’t go into school with a decent looking shiner without me getting a call

          14. Nigel

            ‘I don’t know how public health authorities
            Somewhere
            Haven’t stepped in
            This is abuse of a minor’

            That’s not just the same parish, its the same, church, same aisle, same pew.

          15. Nigel

            ‘Just the perverted and sick.’

            And this is the same standard of thinking you apply to the idea that it’s obvious Greta is being manipulated, stage-managed, contrived, etc. I rest my case. Always a pleasure, Bodge.

          16. Bodger

            Nigel, as a last word freak you will want to respond to this. But please don’t

            I don’t take you seriously on any issue and consider you a very nasty troll. I haven’t the foggiest why you would even want to be around here.

            Apart from the ugly harrassment of commenters, your opinions are mainstream, banal and add nothing to the site.

            The Irish Times or Journal would be a much happier fit.

          17. Pfaf

            Bodger, that’s an extraordinary rant against a popular commentator. It does nothing to support your own point of view. I’ve asked you where you can to present evidence that Greta is being manipulated. You clearly can’t do this. This in my mind clarified that the exact same way you described Nigel’s input here could be ascribed to your own.

          18. Pfaf

            Pfaf, Nigel has been trolling me and this site for years so don’t feel too sad for him.

            Today is the first time I have seen your name on the site so perhaps you weren’t aware?

            He’s a nasty piece of work and he knows it (actually revels in it).

            As for Greta. If you think her story is a genuine one then that’s fine.

            I don’t and think this whole Doomsday circus quite embarrassing for everyone. The adults involved should feel thoroughly ashamed.

            Those not shilling for carbon taxes tend to agree.

          19. Pfaf

            That may well be Bodger.

            And I’m sure it’s very frustrating for your and your colleagues. Doubtful that Nigel is the only troll on the site though he seems to be getting singled out by yourself for this one.

            Also, presenting your argument without evidence and calling out Nigel in this way puts your input on the same level.

          20. Nigel

            I may or may not be a nasty piece of work, but at least I never implied someone was a sexual predator just because they refused to accept my rerframing of a sordid piece of political ratfupping into a Conspiracy Crusade.

            (Carbon taxes are the new Hilary Clinton – you’d rather embrace ugly conspiracy theories and hand the world over to the death cult of the far-right in the name of opposing them because you’re too clever and pure to build a consensus with anyone else on the political spectrum.)

            V! Jump in here for the last word.

          21. Pfaf

            Nigel I’m beginning to see the type of behaviors from you to which Bodger refers. People on all sides of the spectrum politically are opposed to carbon taxes for valid reasons not least of which they are likely to be disproportionately regressive

          22. Nigel

            I’m not crazy about them myself but
            a) our pesky electorate keep electing centre right governments who love putting the burden of costs on the middle class and lower
            b) at the same time it’s weird to see people purpotedly on some side of the left opposed to taxation in principal instead of arguing for their implementation in such a way that would target the worst offenders in terms of carbon production
            c) instead carbon taxes are now a whole new populist shibboleth, the focus of conspiracy theories and populist rage and anyone who favours them in any form is a shill or a dupe
            d) this is the sort of division that invariably ends up favouring the far right.

          23. Man On Fire

            “the focus of conspiracy theories..”

            Indeed like that Trump Russia scam that you were pumping not so long ago..

            Conspiracies only when convenient for Nigel.

          24. TheQ47

            Ah Bodger. Given all your comments here, I think I’ve had enough of this site. I’ve always liked it, but can’t take much more of what you write, when you write poo like this.

            Enough.

            Bye.

  2. eoin

    Gas how the Irish media regards Leo Varadkar as the centre of their universe. RTE, Newstalk, Irish Times, “Irish” Daily Mail, the Indo, the Irish Examiner all had their staff on the ground in NY yesterday to sit back and listen to Leo tell them he was “planning” to stop issuing new licences for oil (not gas) exploration. No challenge about the two licences he has greenlit since May 2019. Could they not have stayed in Dublin and just read the comments from MerrionStreet.ie?

    1. GiggidyGoo

      But sure he is a great fellow. He is going to ‘warn’ Boris seemingly. A great fellow for the warnings. A great fellow for the ‘cast iron and bulletproof’ proposed backstop. I’m sure Boris will be quaking in his boots, skuttering in his jocks at the thoughts of Varadkar building up to his warning. Maybe Varadkar would be better served issuing the warnings to the EU about not selling out that cast iron and bulletproof proposed backstop, instead of cruising the UN for some belly-tickling.

  3. eoin

    The Wrightbus countdown, six days left until it finds a buyer/investor or goes bust [that’s the market commentary, but it’s a fact it has to publish accounts by next Monday] The Newsletter reports

    “One Wrightbus source told the News Letter today [23 Sep] that talks with the two last bidders broke down last week over the value of associated land. “However at this stage the land issue has been sorted and hopefully a deal will be done by Thursday,” he said. “Thursday is D-Day.” However another source close to the situation said one of the two bidders was definitely out of the process. “

    1. eoin

      If Bojo is exercised by the collapse of Thomas Cook and the payment of millions in bonuses to its management, what will he say if and when Wrightbus collapses and he sees the millions it has given to the church run by the son of the Wrightbus boss.

  4. eoin

    Former BBC political correspondent can’t catch a break. Having given up the media and make-up in 2014 to join the nuns, she’s been kicked out because the collective of nuns in Belfast is too small to continue to receive financial support for doing nothing all day from the boyos in Rome.

    “I continue to follow Jesus as best I can as a lay Catholic and have now entered period of discernment. Please pray for me and all of us in the congregation”

    “A period of discernment”? I like it.

  5. eoin

    Jeepers, the new book by Edward Snowden “Permanent Record” is some read. After you get through his early life to the point he joins the US intelligence services, it is frightening. The book was launched last week, and thanks to the US government trying to stop it [and now suing Snowden and his publishers] it’s #1 on Amazon.

    You can see Snowden’s interview with the US Daily Show here. It’s funny but at the same time, eye-opening.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PArFP7ZJrtg

    Can you see any parallels to recent happenings in Ireland?

    It’s €16 in Waterstones. Get it before the US government stops you.

  6. Pfaf

    People with ADHD or whatever the diagnosis exist on a broad spectrum- sure just a few weeks ago here the editors were quoting the “autists” on 4chan as a great source of insight … now they’re allowing ever more gross insinuations to stand against a woman who is well able to stand up for the welfare of others

    1. Bodger

      ‘sure just a few weeks ago here the editors were quoting the “autists” on 4chan as a great source of insight’

      Yes, they are. What is your point?

        1. White Dove

          Treating autists as human beings means that their actions become subject to judgment, assessment and criticism… it’s called democratic debate, don’t dare to shut it down.

          1. Nigel

            And that judgment, assessment and criticism is itself subject to judgment, assessment and criticism. I have seen none that isn’t nasty insinuations, outright personal attacks, or just lazy generalised sneering. The closest thing to actual criticism here is someone calling her words ‘stupid nonsense’ which leaves a lot to be desired but at least is directed at what she said not who she is.

          1. Pfaf

            Perhaps. But your supposition is presented without evidence.

            Even if you are correct a number of posts above and the other day referred to the girl’s diagnosis rather than the substance of her point and we have one prominent example above where a lad is taking liberties to discuss whether she should be in school. My son attends school here and there are no classes on Friday afternoon. Why do you allow this kind of verbiage to stand when you soundly wouldn’t allow people to attack the autists on 4chan on such flimsy premises?

          2. Bodger

            Pfaf, the people who identify as autists on 4chan have been criticised here without any issue certainly not from you that I recall. Happily, they don’t see themselves as above criticism and welcome scrutiny on their site.

            Greta is being stage managed. I have no issue with her condition or her age, just with her handlers.

          3. Bodger

            No, Nigel, I didn’t call her completely insane. I called the front page use of her fear-mongering quotes as completely insane. But you know all that. Welcome back.

          4. Pfaf

            Bodger, the autists on 4chan haven’t been criticized by you in that way, even though many would agree with your characterisation of the Greta media scrum in similar terms, regarding some of the points of view they put forward. Nonetheless thanks for your replies and those to Nigel below which clarified your own position.
            I can’t speak for him but the problem I guess Nigel and I have with some of the Greta commentary on here is that it doesn’t speak to her points of view at all other than in oblique terms like “this is a conspiracy for a carbon tax” etc. I realize the unique selling point in a way of this site is to give “other voices” an airing, but still

          5. Nigel

            Thank you Bodger. If you could refrain from implying that by criticising Pizzagaters I ‘sound like’ a child predator I might even hang around, thanks.

            That’s just a cop-out. Of COURSE you’re not criticisng her, you’re criticising the evil media for reporting the things she says and does! You’re accusing her of being used, stage managed (a vague and dark term, as if any public appearance doesn’t have some measure of stage management) of having handlers (as if any young person on the world stage wouldn’t or shouldn’t have adults around them.) It’s a cowardly, conspiracy-mongering way to attack her, because you have just enough self awareness that the sort of attacks you’d launch directly at an adult would look incredibly scummy when launched at a teenager.

            Still though, Clampers told her to fupp off and you replied to him calling her completely insane. Weasel words about the media won’t change that.

            And as for ‘fear-mongering?’ The only thing to be scared of is the world not taking action against climate change. So, y’know, given our leaders, be afraid.

          6. Curious Gerogina

            Climate has been changing for 4.5 billion yyears – too late to stop it now.

            But is is funny that those who repeat the lies of the catastrophic climate emergency nonsense always do so with a self-righteous indignation that screams their virtue.

            Ask them to produce the actual science they rely on though… and they move straight to ad hominem toxic labelling.

            “Never mind the science, feel the virtue!!”

            Crazy greenies are crazy.

            And now they use children to push their nonsense, unassailable children that must not be criticised for repeating the nonsense theyy do not understand but insist we must listen to.

            The Climate Crisis is over when we stop paying attention to the lying doomsaywers.

          7. postmanpat

            Curious Gerogina doesn’t believe man-made climate change. Curious Gerogina is an idiot and a troll who belongs on Breitbarts comments section.

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