63 thoughts on “Monday’s Papers

  1. GiggidyGoo

    Slow death or slow rebirth of FF, the Examiner asks.
    Fast death in my opinion.
    I see Jim O’Callaghan got a write up in the Times over the weekend. The great saviour of FF seemed to be the gist of the article. Wrong person, and too late anyway.

  2. SOQ

    Carl Heneghan is professor of evidence-based medicine at the University of Oxford and director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine.

    Could mass testing for Covid-19 do more harm than good?

    Karl states that PCR cannot differentiate between live and past infections and cites one case of a positive result 63 day after initial symptom onset- another was 47 days.

    “The harms of false-positive results can be substantial: operations can be delayed or cancelled; patients are kept in hospital, just in case; further testing is required; in some cases, it drives local lockdowns. “


    1. scottser

      And yet the official recorded figures are way short of the actual number of covid cases because of either a refusal or inability to test comprehensively. Without accurate figures you can’t plan an effective contingency. If they rolled out testing earlier they might well have found out that covid was working its way through the population in late November, showing the Chinese narrative to be a pack of lies.
      Timing is everything.

      1. SOQ

        Agreed- this legacy remnant thing would not have been an issue in the early days.

        The problem is that now, a ramp in testing anywhere in the country can cause a spike in figures which in turn may drive a local lock down but- if nobody is getting sick then it is highly likely that they are past infections.

        “This detection problem is ubiquitous for RNA viruses detection. SARS-CoV, MERS, Influenza Ebola and Zika viral RNA can also be detected long after the disappearance of the infectious virus.”

        1. Johnny Green

          -good news-limited impact so far in Haiti.
          -bad news-closed the economy killing Dennis O’Brien’s cash cow:)

          “So far, however, the worst predictions haven’t come to pass. Although testing and surveillance is limited, the official number of confirmed cases declined from almost 300 per day in mid-June to about 100 in mid-July. As of 9 August, Haiti had reported only 183 COVID-19 deaths in its population of 11.2 million’


          1. SOQ

            Stephen Donnelly: Increase in deaths likely to follow spike in Covid-19 cases

            “If you look at the daily number of cases, it is going up,” Mr Donnelly told RTÉ radio’s Morning Ireland. “If you look at the sad reality, there can be a time lag between cases and hospitalisations… it stands to reason that there will be a fatality rate following that.”


            The positive test rate is actually going down- currently sitting at 1.2% down from 1.6 on Friday- we don’t know if that is within the margin of error because nobody knows what the margin of error really is.

            Stephen is of the opinion that an increase in cases will lead to serious illness but that trend is not borne out in other European countries. As for the time lag, it is highly unlikely that everyone was infected just before testing so if there is a rise in hospitalisations, it will be gradual and probably should have started by now.

            Another factor will be the age of those who tested of course- younger people are more likely to shake it off a lot easier, therefore require less medical interventions.

            There are so many variables with this thing- time will tell- if he is right, we should see an increase in hospitalisations within 14 days.

  3. GiggidyGoo

    After the weekend’s lowering of standards, do we now have to have a Troll Watch on all new usernames?

    1. Janet, dreams of big guns

      BS has always had it’s trolls remember ABM Andrew ? It has been quite for a while so I guess we were due an outbreak, BS tolerates it for the most part believes it spits discussion, personally I don’t agree,
      I also worry about the kind of mind set that seems to think because something is virtual all bets are off as if online bullying didn’t have real ramifications,
      just my take, it doesn’t make BS a nice place to be, there’s plenty of scope for conversation without descending into the gutter to do it.

          1. Janet, dreams of big guns

            ah just abnoxious poo stiring by a self confessed troll, you didn’t miss anything,
            it’s sad they get actual pleasure from it and pride themselves on their goading, they need help really, very unhealthy and immature.

          2. :-Joe

            Ah ok, just the usual drivel from the likes of captain blow-hard etc. then…

            Trolls, as bad as they can be are a necessary part of the equation. Otherwise you risk ending up in a bubble of censorship and groupthink.


          3. Janet, dreams of big guns

            call me old fashioned ;) arguing just to win, not showing empathy, unwilling to listen, arguing the person rather than the arguments point, all signs of terrible and ultimately fruitless and toxic communication imo

      1. GiggidyGoo

        The weekend troll was so blatant over the weeks (months even), and descended into a meltdown of insults, some quite personal to BB, Papi and others, that I thought BS would have had a handle on him/her a lot sooner. I was surprised that it went on for so long without moderation.
        Not only that, he/she was boasting about giving a moderator work to do, and about being here for the long term under many names.

          1. sidhe

            check the weekend papers. it’s something of a trawl, but there are a few rather interesting comments in there.

  4. :-Joe

    Great to know that rosanna has left the death cult and rejected misanthropy as a guiding philosophy.

    Whether or not she is still a champion of goth / death metal music remains to be seen…


    1. ReproBertie

      I don’t know about not having any Sunday Games to postmortem Frilly. Although the Saturday night games were very one sided, the Dublin SFC is setting up some very interesting fixtures. The Kickhams Na Fianna one will be particularly tasty.

  5. Johnny Green

    Olivia Nuzz’s latest-possibly the best reporting from the campaign-essential for those interested in US politics.

    “…the story of The Trump campaign, based on my interviews with more than 30 sources from the 2020 & 2016 campaigns, Republicans in politics & government at all levels, & people serving at the highest ranks of the Trump administration..
    …Jared vs. The World; Kellyanne vs. Brad Parscale; Trump vs. himself; the Campaign vs. reality…
    ..I also report new details about the political career of Trump’s new campaign manager Bill Stepien, and about the dynamics between Stepien, Kushner, and Chris Christie”


    1. :-Joe

      Johnny, I hope you’ve prepared yourself for the amorphous orange blob of bile a.k.a drumpf +robot-god-boy getting back in again…

      biden the sleepy, creepy, incompetant sexual abuser(See Democracy Now / allegedly etc) and now harris are way too late to the race… I swear, the only reason they are even running is for more cash and influence peddling for the dnc. No chance without a proverbial act of god or cia.

      On the up though, I was watching an interview with Bret Wenstein about all things ‘murican, the socio political and historical roots of the chaos, potential civil war, BLM and George Floyd and more etc.

      Anyway, he’s calling for a new third party or fourth in ‘murica (if you accept that drumpf is a one-man band in many ways) The idea is a new all party-like system of one centre-right and one centre-left candidate working together as President / Vice Pres. that rotates after four years..

      He’s calling for Admiral McRaven(the military head of the operation that asasinated and abducted bin laden from Pakistan) on the right-wing and Andrew Yang(somewhat progressive, UBI, basic healthcare for all, new deal etc) on the left-wing.

      I’m not sold on either as the best solution, not much better maybe but it’s a decent start for an idea about bringing about progress and some kind of future hope for ‘muricans to get behind and believe in.

      Also Wienstein, as an evolutionary biologist talks about how Covid was most likely leaked somehow from a lab where it was modified for testing on human tissue which also accelerated it’s contagiousness etc. plus a lot more on the subject…
      – Intellegent thoughtful analysis and hypothesis worth listening to, he talks a lot of sense…



      1. Johnny Green

        -thanks Joe-first thing here so just browsing the news and catching up,will take a look as Yang is really cool,he even tried make math cool again, and i think he’s going run for Mayor NY.
        – the race has tightened significantly Joe so yes better get ready for Trump 2.0.
        -i’m in Bernie/AOC/Squad lane which really is a 3 party in may ways-the DNC gave AOC 60 seconds its crazy,many people very unhappy with the DNC.

        “Joe Biden’s lead over Donald Trump among registered voters has significantly narrowed since June”

        1. :-Joe

          Ye, I had a lot of time for Yang along with Bernie in particular and also AOC and the squad etc. until they all sold themselves out to the corrupt dnc and towed the line behind pelosi and schumer i.e. clinton by proxy.. for the corrupt establishment corporate lobby owned and run for influence peddling dnc (fake)democrat party. INC.

          It’s a total joke and a scam, bernie was used and abused to coral the progressive’s, the true / classical liberal left thinking minds(not the new breed of insane extremists btw) behind the eventual dnc puppet of choice i.e. biden. After that bernie was forced to fold and give in or become a dnc pariah much like the great man himself, Ralph Nader or he would lose his support as senator in Vermont.

          Bernie sold out the movement he largely created to hold onto a slice of power within a corrupt system that abused him and all his voters and core supporters twice over.

          As It turns out, he would have had even less chance than biden of winning even going back to 2016 but he should have gone all in on his beliefs and created a new social democratic party with all the above candidates and more.

          IMO he had an incredible opportunity at a real legacy and he blew it. Such a waste and a totally insane lack of forsight and backbone was the last straw for a lot of people but it could lead to a third party or more much sooner than later.

          It’s hard to see any of them being relied upon or trusted enough as a leader in future as the facts become more obvious to the masses. Also, with all the lobbying money involved, It’s usually a fresh looking largely unkown candidate that gathers enough momentum to succeed anyway.

          Without a third or more party option or a seismic change in the system it’ll just be the same rinse and repeat de/rp democrat eight year cycle the next time anyway. Like F-f/g in Ireland, it’s predictable stuff by and for the oligarchy.


          1. Nigel

            If Bernie couldn’t handle the mean-girl level low politics of the DNC, the hardball dirty tricks of the Republicans and Trump would have eaten him alive. Third parties lead to split votes in a two-party system. It’s up to the voters to push the Democratic Party leftward, the way the Tea Party pushed the Republican Party to the right.

          2. Junkface

            Bernie Sanders didn’t sell out, come on! He was the strongest candidate in the race, he lost because in the southern states social democracy stills sounds like communism, it’s a dirty word. They voted for Biden because he is not a social democrat, it’s that simple. I would have loved to see Andrew Yang getting the candidacy, he’s great. Maybe in 4 years?

      2. AKA Frilly Keane

        ta for that, I’ll get my lunch now and sit down with it

        Truthfully, I’m not buying the whole Trump v Biden thing at all

        With all the money ‘Merica has available for elections, publicly declared and PAC buckets
        I’m not convinced there aren’t others looking to throw their hats into the ring
        especially from within the moderate GOP wing(s)
        and the leftier Dems

        And surely the Greens can coat-tail someone into the debates

        1. Johnny Green

          Morning V-Olivia Nuzzi is the bomb,the best reporting and non paywall.

          -quick Q-do paddle boards in Ireland not have a leash(ankle to the back board) – i understand the boards were ‘inflatable” but i think i read they did no have a leash-very few people i know would ever go out without attaching their board-maybe messing around in the surf on a shore break but still….are paddle boards allowed to be sold in Irl w.o a leash?

          -the rescue services will be busy !

          1. Johnny Green

            Morning V-Olivia Nuzzi is the bomb,the best reporting and non paywall.

            -quick Q-do paddle boards in Ireland not have a leash(ankle to the back board) – i understand the boards were ‘inflatable” but i think i read they did no have a leash-very few people i know would ever go out without attaching their board-maybe messing around in the surf on a shore break but still….are paddle boards allowed to be sold in Irl w/o a leash?

            -the rescue services will be busy !

          2. AKA Frilly Keane

            Mine has a leash, but I imported it from a crowd in the US years ago
            But I know a lad that sells them here and all his have leashes, inflatable & hard shell

            And I’ve never seen a short or a long board without one here tbh

            Also, and this is just my view and I’d be fairly handy on the water, anyone using an inflatable in any sort of wind is taking a risk anyway
            no matter how competent they are
            Best rule is if you are losing control to wind and current and an outgoing tide, stay inshore, even if it means abandoning the board, and kicking (on your back) your way in,
            and always wear a buoyancy aid with crotch straps

            If you’re not a strong sea swimmer, insist on a buoyancy aid with crotch straps

      3. Nigel

        If Trump wins – and since he’s openly working to supress voting on a massive scale he might – the US will be well on the way to effectively becoming a one party state. A third party, absent a change in voting system, will only help accelerate that. I don’t know why anyone who isn’t already a right-wing extremist would think this is a good thing

        1. bisted

          …apparently, the two boards had ankle tethers which the girls swapped so the could stay together…a bit like FF and FG here or the Republicans and Democrates in the US…a perpetual two party system…

          1. Nigel

            We have an effective two party system, broadly, because of our political culture. We could have swept it all away long ago if we didn’t keep reverting to Civil War alignments. The US has a two party system because of structural and systemic reasons. The only question is whether people who want systemic reform think it’s more likely to come from the party that includes The Crew, or the party that includes Qanon.

          2. bisted

            …finally we seem to agree on something Nigel…both jurisdictions have a quasi two system party system that are extreme right wing and have designed the electoral system to perpetuate their existence…

          3. Nigel

            ‘Finally?’ Seems like we’ve been in agreement about that all along, though I think Ireland’s problem has more to do with a deeply moribund political culture, amongst the electorate as well as the political class, but that causes systemic calcification too.

        2. Johnny Green

          suppress votes-Nigel,its a distraction-most yanks are just too fat,dumb and lazy to vote.

          year eligible vote voted %

          1996 196,789,000 96,390,000 49.0%
          2000 209,787,000 105,594,000 50.3%
          2004 219,553,000 122,349,000 55.7%
          2008 229,945,000 131,407,000 58.2%
          2012 235,248,000 129,235,000 54.9%
          2016 250,056,000 138,847,000 55.7%

          h/t wiki.

          -last trip i took was ski trip mammoth, then few days hiking Death Valley in March-hit 130 yesterday -wow!

          1. Nigel

            A distraction. You are ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. Anything to shore up the false equivalence. Historically, the Republicans have openly targeted black communities with voter supression tactics. Are they too fat and lazy to vote? Or just utterly discouraged by a system being openly rigged agains them? Dismantling the postal service in primarily Democratic voting states to sabotage postal voting during a pandemic. With a little help from his Russian firends, and allowing for whatever craziness the press gets fixated on in the run-up to the election, like Hilary’s e-mails last time, that’ll be mainly why he wins, and the amount of work you have to do to ignore that fact is monumental.

          2. Johnny Green

            …..perhaps a bit gardening Nigel-oh how about improving the educational outcomes and diets for kids-the Dems have had plenty chances.

            ” British consumers spend more than three billion dollars annually at garden centers, many of them sprawling outdoor emporiums that feature cafés offering quiches and cream teas, and playgrounds for children bored by the begonias”

            terrific New Yorker piece on the brits love of gardening-very enjoyable read.

            -its Kamala by a landslide-but c’mon she’s backed by some fairly shady SF tech money,i think Biden is too old to drive never mind be president.

          3. Nigel

            Hasn’t the Trump administration being dismantling the, perhaps modest, steps taken by the Obama administrayion when it came to shool meals – the Republicans went absolutely rabid-dog wild when Michelle Obama tried to improve school nutrition – and equality of acces to education? Whatever chances the Dems flubbed, the Republicans didn’t miss theirs and put in Betsy DeVos to completely wreck education for the poor and the marginalised and protect the private and the privileged.

          4. Nigel

            You’re not making any sort of persuasive case as to why the dismantling of the national postal system during a pandemic is a non or garbage story.

          5. Johnny Green

            …because it has not happened nor will it-if they cant’ even protect their money pit of a post office,which he’s right is rubbish,then maybe they deserve him….after all you get the leaders/pols you deserve !

          6. Nigel

            It’s literally happening right now, and your social darwinist dismissal isn’t a reason any sane person would entertain.

          7. Johnny Green

            What’s happening Nigel ?
            Trumps trying win – oh no !
            Dirty tricks in us politics
            I’m gonna have lie down
            Get real Nigel

        3. Junkface

          If Trump wins, the chaos in US cities will just continue to get worse, it could get really violent. People are already at breaking point over there, hardly any payments were sent out to people, was it 2 cheques now? The GOP have been shown up as the corrupt cheats they are, have always been, they have been suppressing votes for 25+ years with Gerrymanding districts within states, but they’ve also shown that they have zero interest in responsible governing. Its just governing by trolling.
          The Democrats are also pretty shambolic with corruption, but at least they are not suppressing votes and portions of their party are really trying to break with the past and tackle real problems for the working and middle class. I just can’t believe that they had since 2016 to come up with new candidates for President and this is what they have? Joe Biden and Kamala Harris! The DNC have repeatedly failed to listen to everyday Americans and learn lessons from their past failures. I really hope they have not already screwed this election up.

          I mean Kamala’s campaign was awful, her messaging inconsistent, she also had no answers to her critics who were right to expose her terrible record for locking up young black men on weak charges.

          1. Nigel

            They wouldn’t be my choices by many miles, and the DNC needs to be burned to the ground, but maybe don’t underestimate the appeal of Biden|Harris to, for lack of a better term, middle America? They come across (relative to Trump) as safe, stable, amenable to reason, mindful of the law and averse to making unilateral sweeping radical undemocratic changes. To be honest, the presidential ticket is unlikely to ever push the Democrats to the left, even with more liberal candidates. That has to come from mid-term and local elections, holding onto congress, taking the senate, supporting more liberal candidates up and down the line.

            We’re not in a strong position to complain too much about the quality of their candidates for top offices, to be honest….

  6. Johnny Green

    -i mean what could possibly go wrong with one EU’s most important urban development sites.

    “Property developer Johnny Ronan has dropped his plans to put a hotel in the 23-storey tower on Tara Street, Dublin, which is set to become Ireland’s tallest building.

    Ronan will instead give most of the 88-metre tower to “ultra-premium” office space, after deciding that the effects of the Covid-19 pandemic will leave the hotel sector depressed for some time.

    There will also be a restaurant, cafe and retail space, although Ronan is still not planning to add any homes to the building, which will be known as the AquaVetro tower.”


    -here fixed it-deadbeat promoter runs out of cash, desperately seeking partners.
    -i mean he only missed this deadline with semi-state CIE-why would one think he’s not the perfect partner for the state (you guys) and NAMA on a multi year very complex dev project at the glass bottle site.
    -Johnny’s US money partner Colony recently defaulted on its hotel debts-are they getting a little shaky on development risks with hotels now Johnny:)
    -like really WTF is FG and NAMA thinking flogging one the Irish states last amazing urban development sites in the midst of a worldwide capital shortage and a flight to safety,to a failed dev who can’t even meet his deadlines with another semi-state-he’s defaulted !
    -like does he have Polaroids on Martin – its banana republic time once again!

    1. :-Joe

      +100% –

      I also think ronan might be one of those misanthropic death metal cult followers too?..
      – Hmmm.. could be at least one of many a potential conspiracy going on?


    1. Johnny Green

      -student union wtf -FFS he’s an attention seeking loser-oh no is that what you were just…..oh self own:)

      lost in the 2016 general election in the Wexford constituency…

      lost in the 2019 European Parliament election for Fianna Fail ..

      Meet Malcom-who has of course zero qualifications to be a senator,other than possibly holding the record for shortest serving TD-Kieran Doherty died on hunger strike 52 days after his election-rest in peace Kieran.

      oh fook thats bullying:)
      He was Head of Communications with the Higher Education Authority until 2019, and has been Vice-President of the National Youth Council of Ireland, the Union of Students in Ireland’s former Education Officer and a former executive member of the European Students’ Union. In 2014, he was named as one of the European 40 Under 40, in the European Young Leaders Programme

      He was elected in a by-election in November 2019, only to lose his seat in the subsequent general election in February 2020. He was a member of Wexford County Council from 2009 to 2019.


      -so basically have never done a days work in his life and is a 46 year old full time student !

      oh fook thats bullying-but ta for the link Rob:)

      1. Rob_G

        Fine; do you think he deserves to be bullied by anonymous trolls because of his poor electoral record, or what is the point you are attempting to make there…

        1. Johnny Green

          no he deserves a platform in the IRISH TIMES to whine.
          in your opinion Rob,given this 46 year old man child has never actually worked a day in his life,does he bring to the senate ?
          online bullying is his new bandwagon then-a surefire electoral winner…huh.

    2. GiggidyGoo

      “I accept this is not an official group and you cannot be held personally responsible for what is posted by individual members and supporters.” Said Malcolm Byrne to Mr. O’Broin.
      So, he’s basically saying that it’s not a SF site but assumes from there on.

      Mr. Byrne should look a bit closer to home – FF home that is – for a culture of bullying. Lisa McDonald can fill him in if he has forgotten.

      Or FG could do the same. John Deasy could fill in the blanks. Or maybe Barry Walsh could fill in the blanks of abusive tweets – again, internal FG

      Quite a culture of abuse within FFG actually Rob.

      1. Rob_G

        Well it’s awful that anyone from any political party would get bullied, but to try and create an equivalence with either FF or FG to Sinn Féin, where a full one-third(!) of their elected councillors resigned due to bullying allegations (and lord knows how many ordinary members) is an intellectually dishonest exercise.

        1. GiggidyGoo

          “intellectually dishonest” – what kind of phrase is that?
          Rob – if you come on with an article like the above that itself is “dishonest”, and make a sweeping statement about people who post here, and get actual facts posted back then in reply, then sorry, you’ve lost me as to what you’re complaining about.
          And suddenly then you write that he’s being bullied because of his election record? Facts once again Rob.
          You seem to be under the illusion that people like Malcolm Byrne should get a free pass to write what they wish without reply? Or that you should?

      2. AKA Frilly Keane

        Malcom Byrne would want to look a bit closer than just his FFer colleagues
        like his own twitter activities

        In fact he’s the last one to be talking about Twitter behaviour

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