75 thoughts on “Friday’s Papers

  1. gringo

    Same as it ever was. The brits have never made an agreement that they kept, and the Fine Failures have been found out again.

  2. Slightly Bemused

    I have lived through hell this year, but somehow it is the news that the lady Diana has passed brings me to weep.
    Thank you for the days, my lady, and may you rest in peace.
    And to all your family, I wish the best. I only knew her on screen, but she had a wonderful impact. I can only imagine how she was in life. I offer you all my best.

  3. f_lawless

    Here’s my hot take on how this Covid situation may well play out:

    – the amount of daily testing will continue to rise and with it the daily case counts
    – the issue of false positive cases will continue without being addressed properly, if at all (not compatible with on the spot mass testing!)
    – the threat of further restrictions will continue with no end in sight;
    – the Irish media will continue to amplify public fear by presenting things in an alarmist way
    – restrictions will get lifted only to be reimposed as cases rise, leaving everybody even more bewildered and dispirited
    – the case for “digital health passports” coupled with on the spot mass testing will start to be touted as the only realistic route out of the ongoing nightmare and to get society functioning normally again
    – all entertainment venues, sports venues, etc will start to require these digital health passports, workplaces too
    – after a period of becoming normalised, they will become mandatory
    – as envisaged by western global policy makers, the building blocks will now be in place tin order to implement a social credit system of governance similar to how the Chinese population is managed

    1. Rosette of Sirius

      Whoa there horsey. You forgot to add the bits about mandatory vaccinations, 5G brainwave monitoring, concentrated and enforced human settlements and soylent green…

    2. Q Celt

      Please indicate a laboratory test that is certified to have 100% accuracy and 100% precision. They don’t exist all tests have an error margin +/-5% typical for most well established laboratory tests. There seems to be confusion between testing and diagnosis.

    3. Clampers Outside

      OK, that’s the ‘play out’.

      Do you see this as intentional? Your last point suggests you do.
      That the begs the question, who does this benefit and in what way?
      Genuine questions F_ as I don’t know the answer myself.

    4. Cian


      1. the amount of daily testing will continue to rise and with it the daily case counts
      2. the issue of false positive cases will continue without being addressed properly, if at all (not compatible with on the spot mass testing!)

      1. Yes – because there are more people with COVID out there. Nothing to do with the number of tests. There is no link, in Ireland, between an increase in tests done and an increase in positives.
      In Ireland:
      June had 85,000 tests: 483 positive (0.57%)
      July had 203,300 tests: 592 positive (0.29%)
      August had 206,900 tests: 2,746 positives (1.33%)

      July had over twice as many tests as June – but the positive-rate halved.
      August had about the same number of tests as July – but the positive rate jumped 400%.

      We are seeing more positive cases because a greater number of people are positive.

      And then, because there are more cases – the number of daily tests being done this month has increased. More positive tests makes them do more testing.

      And these are ‘real’ cases. August had a 400% increase in cases over July; September sees a 400% increase in hospitalisations.

      The number of false positives should be a set % of tests, so it would not change over time. The absolute maximum value for false positives is 0.29% – which assumes that there were zero true positives in the month of July (which is a ridiculous proposition – the real value is a lot less).

      1. Q Celt

        +1 in medical diagnosis it’s false negatives that are the worry. False positives get unnecessary further diagnosis and treatment, which may be unfortunate for the patient but is better medicine and better for the population at large.

      2. SOQ

        Cian- you conveniently ignore the fact that PCR is a forensic test designed to determine if a virus was present in the past. It CANNOT identify a live virus so given its margin of error when the positive rate is so low, its accuracy is questionable- especially when fatalities and serious illness are not following the same spike as test results,

        Also, another issue now being raised is the number of amplifications being used because of you use enough of them, everyone will test positive,

          1. SOQ

            Out if a population of 4.5 million Cian those figures are minuscule- 5 in and 3 out and no reference to other conditions.

            Zero CoVid-19 is not an option so unfortunately there will be some semblance of it around for quite some time- just like colds and flus.

          2. Cian

            The numbers are currently small yes, but they are rising.
            The number of cases in July were really small, the numbers increased 500%.
            The number of hospitalisations were really small, the numbers increased 500%

            My point is the cases are **real**, they are causing hospitalisation, and they are causing deaths.
            The cases keep rising… and this will have a knock-on effect on hospitalisations and deaths.

          3. GiggidyGoo

            Well that’s odd Cian. As your link states, there are 53 in Hospital now, up from 48 (which was down from 50 the day before) The odd thing about that page though is that it tallies with the admissions of 5, but there were 3 discharges which should have brought the figure back to 50.

          4. Cian

            You are right – the number of admissions/discharges don’t seem to match the totals from today/yesterday.
            The data may simply be wrong, or possibly if someone were admitted to hospital 27 hours ago (either with suspected covid/or a non-covid reason) and has been found positive in the last 24 hours. They are currently a hospitalised covid case (so are in the 53), but weren’t admitted in the last 24-hours (so aren’t in the 5)? I dunno.

    5. SOQ

      @ f_lawless

      I agree with you up until the digital health stuff although why they introduced muzzles at a time when the thing was clearly on the wane is a complete mystery.

      There is another explanation- that governments got completely spooked by what was going on in China and just over reacted. And now, they are up a medical Cul-de-sac and don’t know how to reverse without acknowledging they messed up- the exception being those countries which did not lock down of course.

      At the back of all this is I believe an arrogance (or stupidity) that we can beat the forces of nature– I don’t know where it came from because it was never there with other seasonal viruses- some of which had much higher fatality rates. We just accepted they would run their course and this psychosis with all its superstitious mask type nonsense was never a problem.

      Anyways our very own Ivor Cummins is back at it. His latest video- ‘Viral Issue Crucial Update Sept 8th: the Science, Logic and Data Explained!’ racked up near 185 000 views in two days and is being referenced all over the place- not bad eh?


      1. Cian

        I watched the first minute and he attributes the drop in deaths in May to it following the seasonal flu!
        The fact that all of Europe shut-down (to a greater or lesser extent) is ignored.
        We don’t go into lockdown, work from home, minimise contact every winter season for the flu; but we did for COVID.

        at 3:30 he mixes up “all cause deaths” and “flu” deaths. He then says there are “NOTE VERY LOW DEATH RATE PRECEDING COVID”… but the blue line pretty much follows the grey-dotted average line… then he compares the “winter” of 2018 to the “spring” of 2020? huh?

        at 10:00 he shows mortality rates fir Sweden, finland and Norway and shows how Sweden had fewer deaths in 2019 leaving lots of “dead-wood”…but the graphs shown aren’t scaled for deaths per million. All three countries had a soft 2019.. but Sweden with its bigger population had a bigger drop in deaths… but relative to population they are very cloes (except in 2020 when Sweden jumps up)

  4. Tommy Bohan

    The “Irish” Daily Mail having yet again the same picture as the British Daily Mail. Can it not find an Irish one? I never heard of this person.

    1. Hammock

      Never heard of Diana Rigg ? A great actress and a feminist icon from the days when they were allowed to be attractive.You ought to get out from under your rock more often.

    2. Rob_G

      Ah she was very famous years ago

      But indeed – aside from this lady’s family and close friends, I can’t imagine anyone considering it important enough news to be on the front page (to be on the front page of almost every British paper, in fact).

      1. please revert to your regular username

        Like the picture of the opera singer on the front page of the Irish Independent ?

        1. Rob_G

          It’s true it’s not exactly epoch-making content, but it is a news story about a festival that is currently ongoing (and it’s on the front of one newspaper, not all of the Irish newspapers).

      2. Cian

        At least she was famous in her own right, and some people may be interested.

        There have been a number of posts on BS recently where the parents of famous people have been ill/died (Paul McGrath and Morrisey I think). What is that all about?

        Personally I think it is a bit creepy/stalker-ish.

        1. Rob_G

          I would agree (though in fairness Morrisey issued an appeal to his fans to pray to his mother, so in that case it was him putting it out there).

    3. goldenbrown

      imho she was the best “Bond Girl” in one of the best Bond movies – On Her Majesty’s Secret Service – highly recommend

      1. please revert to your regular username

        She won a Tony award on Broadway, appeared for decades in London’s West End and was also in Game of Thrones.I think there are enough people out there who would appreciate her passing being noted with a front page picture.Classier than a Kardashian or Twink anyway.

        1. GiggidyGoo

          Or, for that matter, more newsworthy than the likes of a house for sale that belonged to who is described by the Indo as ‘Legendary’, Gerry Ryan.

  5. Birdie

    I haven’t read the Irish Examiner piece about “joy postponed for new mothers.”

    We had our baby in April and I have to say it was a much more chilled experience versus his older sibling. We didn’t have to deal with a million people visiting and holding the baby. It was lovely to establish our wee unit and routine and embrace the quiet time! But obviously that’s just our experience.

    1. Skinny Tie

      Congratulations Birdie.
      You’re doing it right.

      My envy level has hit MAXX.

      It’s nice to hear something positive, so thank you.

    1. Rob_G

      No harm if it is – it will be a lot harder to facilitate all sorts of crimes if the criminals can’t make use of cash.

        1. Rob_G

          Well, at least 90% of all money is e-money, so it’s not surprising that at least some theft would involve e-money.

          I was talking about it as a means of facilitate other crimes – drug-dealing, tax evasion, fencing stolen goods – if there was no cash, making money from all of these endeavours would be a lot more difficult.

          1. Cian

            lack of cash also makes other things difficult:
            tips, charity donations, the few quid from granny, the tooth fairy, …

            either way, the original article says “The European Central Bank (ECB) is exploring the pros and cons of introducing a digital euro to complement cash .” (my emphasis)

          2. scottser

            rob, the proportion of crime that is paid for in cash is miniscule. all that shady stuff from child p0rn to weapons dealing all happens on the dark web and paid for with cryptocurrencies. as for drug dealing, anyone i know who used to score their class a’s from a personal source now get it online and delivered to a parcel motel.

          3. Junkface

            What’s the latest on on Block Chain currencies? Are there so many variations of it that it had become a minefield of confusion and fraud? In 2015 many podcasters and journalists were saying it was going to change our whole economic financial system by 2025 because its a decentralized banking system. It seems to have hit a massive wall in organized crime and online fraudsters. I don’t know anyone who has bought bitcoin, has anyone here?

          4. Rob_G

            @ scottser –

            How come when the Gardaí (or whoever) raid drug dealers houses, they still always turn up bundles and bundles of cash? The ECB phased out €500 notes because they were used almost exclusively for criminal activity.

            While lots of people do buy drugs and whatnot online, small-purchased by middle-class drug users only makes up a small % of illegal transactions, the vast majority of which still rely on cash. If a heroin addict steals your laptop, he/she sells it for cash, and then used that cash to buy some heroin – they don’t go around sending bitcoin wallets, etc..

          5. Rob_G

            paging :-Joe…

            @ junk : i had some bitcoin previously. Interesting as a vehicle for speculation but too volatile for use as everyday currency (also, the environmental impact of its production is genuinely unconscionable)

          6. GiggidyGoo

            Of course we can’t deny that cash is used for what Rob says it is used for, but the money that is transferred online is used for similar purposes.

          7. Rob_G

            @GG – I know. But why make things easy on the criminals? Make them jump through a few hoops, increase their chances of leaving a digital breadcrumb for investigators every time they want to get at their ill-gotten gains.

          8. GiggidyGoo

            @Cian – we use our money digitally as well as in cash at the moment. What’s the difference then? How is it complementing cash? Surely in order to finance this new electronic money, one needs cash. As is the situation at the moment.

          9. Cian

            I don’t know how it will work. You tell me – you introduced the topic – you research it.

            My point was that it isn’t set to replace cash.

  6. Janet, dreams of big guns

    cash is handy for, buying and selling used goods ( kids, uniforms,books, buggy’s, a lot of people I know can’t afford new and others find getting something back helps toward new stuff) paying kids for odd jobs so they can learn value for money and give them a certain independence on what to spend it on, lends or gifts to friends/family who might be stretched, payment for grinds small craft pieces, the swear jar, it goes on and on, all these human more intimate transactions, should they be taxed tracked and skimmed off by the leaches that are banks, what about the folks that live off grid ? I have to say that appeals to me more and more, something sustainable, ecological and far away from the direction society seems to be taking…and that was before the pandemic.
    Brother Barnabas has the right idea up his mountain.
    We are going to have bugger all independence soon.

    1. Rob_G

      Taxes aren’t “skimmed off by the leaches that are banks”, that’s not how taxes work; taxes are paid to the government in order to provide for services for its citizens. How do you expect the governments to pay for things like housing and healthcare if everyone decided to work just cash-in-hand.

      People can live off the grid all they want: but if a carpenter decided to live off the gird, but was earning €1,200 a week doing nixers, do you think that they should not have to contribute towards the the services that they use just because they have a conscientious objection to paying their fair share, or how would that work?

        1. Janet, dreams of big guns

          you really skim through comments don’t you, I know how taxes work, I’m talking about small intimate transactions, human ones, I didn’t mention mixers you did. I wouldn’t care if there was an increase taxes if health care, housing, childcare, transport and education were not afterthoughts with our current taxes.

          1. Rob_G

            Well in fairness I was quoting from you directly, Janet…

            If someone sells a couch for €100, they are unlikely to encounter a tax liability.

            However, if someone buys and sells 100 used cars in a year, each discrete transaction intimate in its own way, should they have to pay tax on the proceeds?

            At the moment, they don’t have to (and most people in this situation probably don’t); however in a cashless society, this means of evading tax would not be open to them (or at least it would be a lot more difficult).

          2. Janet, dreams of big guns

            I’ll be more careful with my punctuation in future, I still find you incredibly patronising.
            Be careful what you wish for Rob, there is a humanity and freedom to cash that contactless will never replace.

    2. GiggidyGoo

      And another thing overlooked is people having to get a loan of a few bob when they’ve less than nothing in the kitty. (e.g. getting €50 short term from a friend to tide you over – but if it were to be done electronically, and an account was overdrawn, the there’s no use in getting it.

      1. Janet, dreams of big guns

        that what I was saying above, someone’s a bit stretched does the world need to know, their credit history ?

  7. Nigel

    Here’s some incredibly important and deeply disturbng news:

    (Sigh. So important I first posted it under the wrong day’s papers.)

    ‘Global populations of mammals, birds, amphibians, reptiles and fish declined on average by 68% between 1970 and 2016, according to the WWF’s Living planet Index, published on Thursday.’


    The Living PLanet Index:


    1. Cian

      P’ah! that’s sooooo yesterday’s news!

      *but seriously – that is shocking. We’re destroying the planet.

    2. Junkface

      Yes I saw this yesterday. It was utterly depressing news. I fear for all of the beautiful animals of planet Earth. We, as a species, are paving our way towards a sterile planet.

      We need to implement new innovations in farming and food production immediately. Same goes for the building industry, we need to change they way we build by using modern technology. 20th century methods are unsustainable and so wasteful.

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