“Would You Shut Up, Man”


Last night.

A highlight reel from the The first US Presidential debate between Donald Trump (top left) and Joe Biden.

No, you shut up.


Ah here.

160 thoughts on ““Would You Shut Up, Man”

    1. Vanessanelle

      ‘that right?
      well everyone not liking who got elected has had since November 2016 to come up with a Candidate, a build a campaign, and prepare for 2020

      And the best everyone not liking who got elected in November 2016 managed was Joe Biden

      1. ACI Question

        The current president of the United States Of America has the support of, and supports, racist organisations. It’s as simple as that.

        Biden, as a candidate, isn’t going to get anyone’s male appendage hard but at least he can rise to the level of ‘not openly supporting white supremacists’.

        It’s not a minor point and appears to be the clear take away from the debate, outside of America is a catastrophe right now.

        1. Vanessanelle

          I’m not making this about race

          So don’t bring me there

          America with all its money, rockstars, Nobel prizes, Olympic medals and world records, fancy colleges and mega homes, within it’s qualifying population of US born citizens could only come up with Joe Biden

          America had all the time and resources, skills and numbers to pick from
          and they want to make it about race
          and smart v stupid

          Not buying it lads

          1. Nigel

            ‘and they want to make it about race’

            It’s great that liberal-types aren’t openly targeting blacks, latinos and Native Americans for voter supression and campaigns of deterrence from voting, which is presumably why they vote so strongly for more liberal parties, but even then they have to put up with, basically, being told to shut up, the white people are talking.

            (Also I would say you are completely wtong about Biden – he is grandfatherly, calm, quiet, has a no-nonsense bluntness that lets him stand up with himself, and he has non-scary, non-radical policies – he’s literally the anti-Trump.)

          2. V AKA Frilly Keane

            Voter suppression was going on during Bush Jnrs 1st run
            Mericka had an entire Obama administration + Hillary + Biden X two terms to sort it out – locally and federally

            I think it’s disgusting btw
            Can’t think of anything more damaging to a Democracy

            And yeah, Joe Biden is an oul’ dote and harmless enough.

            But do ye seriously think he’s good for a 2nd term?

          3. ACI Question

            Donald Trump has the support of, and supports, white supremacists.

            It’s literally that black or white.

            I’m not addressing your political leanings here and apologies if you thought I was suggesting that you might be on a par with the current US president!

          4. Nigel

            It was during Obama’s term that the Supreme Court made a pair of disastrous rulings about political donations and the protection of voting rights, and with a Republican controlled Senate blocking him there wasn’t much he could do about it, and the Republicans have been riding both hard ever since.

            (I’m not sure Biden’s all that harmless – don’t get me wrong. As for a second term, when the US politcal class is that elderly, the same question can be asked of any of them running for office.)

          5. baz

            Nigel, what is grandfatherly about not acknowledging all of your grandchildren?
            Joe Biden has at least 7 grand kids but only acknowledged 5 in recent interviews, Jill has acknowledged 6 in a ‘correction’ but it is at least 7 and Joe knows it.

            Joe Biden is a disgusting fraud

          6. Nigel

            Blimey, this is a new one. Is Trump really going to make family values a platform for attacking Biden? Good luck with that, guy who had unprotected sex with an adult movie star just after his wife had a baby….

          7. Bodger

            People feel sorry for Biden today because he was bullied by Trump, to a degree that was excessive, but also tactical. I would imagine the last thing you want your base to feel about your candidate is pity.

          8. Nigel

            Blinking. Really.

            Bodger nobody thinks Biden looked bullied, but that doesn’t mean Trump didn’t play to his gallery acting like one.

  1. Nigel

    Trump is down to rallying the sort of people who love that sort of behaviour. Whoever’s in charge of voter supression and foreign interference are going to have their work cut out for them.

    1. Junkface

      I would await further investigation on those claims by the voting commission or whoever. If true, it is not good in any way. Then again the investigations in Cambridge Analytica and Facebook are ongoing and have recently uncovered the suppression of black votes in some states. Add that to the typical Republican gerrymandering of districts to suppress black and latino voters and the overall picture of cheating looks way worse on the Republican side more than the Dems.

      1. Nigel

        I mean, even if theres nothing staright-up illegal going on, what sort of political campaign strategically targets one section of the voting populace, along racial lines, to DISCOURAGE them from voting? That’s an open admission that your politcal philosophy has completely conceded any pretence at helping anyone other than a small but powerful and over-represented minority, and depends on disempowering particular groups, again, along racial lines. That is despicable on any level.

  2. Junkface

    Awful, rambling, shambolic, full of interruptions. I’m glad I didn’t watch it live. Trump is just unbearably rude during these things. Biden seemed to do okay, should have been better prepared for attacks on his son. Look at the Trump kids. They are way worse! Sued by SDNY for stealing charity money, had to do a course on correct procedures for charity groups. And junior was coked out of it live on TV a few weeks ago. They are a disgrace!

    Car crash TV

    1. Junkface

      I’ve just seen some highlights. I wouldn’t say either won outright. Biden really got under Trumps thin skin a few times and caused him to get emotional and more interruptive, he labelled him as a constant liar, the worst president ever, and not smart. Trump lost his cool.

      Trump landed some blows on the Antifa rioters, but then told the ‘proud boys’ white supremacists to stand down and stand by. So he confirmed his links to those groups, or at least their allegiance to him. Bizarre and disturbing presidential behaviour. He also yelled incoherently about Bidens record over and over. I would hardly call it a win for Trump.

      The real winners were the people who did not watch it live

      1. Scundered

        And Biden stands by the BLM movement, who have turned out to be quite a different monster than everyone thought, racist to the core, however Biden still supports it. Messy

        1. Nigel

          ‘racist to the core’

          Nah. I know the right is working hard to make BLM the equivalent of the KKK and antifa the equivalent of the white nationalist movment (responsible for multiple murders and terrorist atacks over the years) but I don’t think it’s working with anyone other than Trump’s base.

          1. Scundered

            Well then take it from someone who is centrist, and would have supported Biden if not for his support of BLM, that the organisation’s antics have been really reprehensible. I can’t abide Trump but if I had a vote in it there’s no way I could support the side that promotes identity politics, open your eyes and look what it’s doing to society, at what point do you realise this is just racism dressed up as justice?

          2. Nigel

            It’s not racism dressed up as justice, it’s demanding justice for acts of racism racism. The idea that black people demostrating for police accountability is equivalent to violent white nationalsts with links to the police and support from the highest office in the land might be your diea of centrism, but it is a centrism skewed beyond parody.

          3. Nigel

            Every day is Groundhog Day with Pat Mustard.

            (Did Trump not try to use that against Biden? Wonder why not? Probably approves of demonising black people too much to give Biden credit…)

          4. Nigel

            Past experience suggests otherwise. Odd that you yourself wouldn’t lay out some sort of point or agument around the crime bill, yourself, though. Or about almost anything.

      1. Nigel

        ‘Trump acted like a bullying blustering fool and that’s bad for Biden’ is such classic Republican spin.

          1. Nigel

            Gonna go out on a limb and say there are way more LGTBQ people in and supporting BLM than there are in the Proud Boys, and possibly the entire Republican Party.

    1. Listrade

      Ah now Bodge, that’s a bit much. They were both awful. The whole thing was awful. It’s where we are with politics. It was an internet comment thread played out in person and anyone who is genuinely partisan and genuinely has an shred of compassion for under-privileged should be nothing but utterly depressed at what we saw and have ahead of us.

        1. Haroo

          Hard to see how he crushed him.

          Biden has a decent/moderate lead in the polls. Biden needed to show he could be presidential, offer a plan and not do anything to erode his lead.

          Biden didn’t really show he could or couldn’t be presidential but I think he spoke to small town America and painted (to some degree) Trump as a tax dodging Billionaire/representing Wall Street.
          He could not communicate a plan given the interrupting.
          He definitely did not do anything that would endanger his lead.

          Trump needed a comeback. Needed a game changer. Needed a blow on Biden. He failed in that. His strategy was aimed at that and the consequence of it failing was to make him look unhinged, bellicose and a bully which is something swing voters (particularly female swing voters) say they do not like.

          All in all Biden kept it together pretty well but did not stand out but did not damage his position. Trump failed in his strategy to rattle Biden/score a game changing blow and came across as aggressive and a bully (appeals to those who will vote for hin regardless, not swing voters).

          1. Haroo

            I think what Biden really needs to do is get more energy and enthusiasm around his campaign. Those who love Trump will vote for Trump, those who hate Trump will vote for Biden. But is there the same degree of loving Biden?

            He needs to not only win swing voters but mobilise the dem base/the politically more apathetic (which sunk Hilly Clinton).

            Suppose that is the kicker with choosing a moderate centrist: difficult to get energy about the idea of stabilising the ship/the other guy is so bad you might as well give me a shot.

          2. Bodger

            Haroo, I think you are reading too much into the debate content. It’s a question of performance and Trump, using humor not just aggression, completely dominated Biden, who performed better than expected but is evidently unable to improvise.

          3. Haroo

            I didn’t mention any content beyond Biden not being able to communicate his plan.

            I guess it is all subjective.

            However, we have to look at who they are trying to win over in these debates. The swing/undecided, not their bases. Trumps performance spoke to his hardcore base. In my opinion, not the people who swung to him in 2016 who have reservations over his unhinged/social media side.

            I think Trump was funnier with Clinton. Last night he was aggressive.

          4. Nigel

            By all accounts he and Harris are doing lots of small-scale highly targeted campaigning, avoiding clashes on the national stage (and super-spreader rallies) because, as this debate shows, direct clashes with Trump will always be disrupted by Trump metaphorically dropping his trousers and taking a poo. Though I wouldn’t entirely rule out the metaphorical becoming literal by the final debate. The energy needed by the Biden campaign is one of ‘calm in the face of malignant idiocy.’

          1. Haroo

            @Nigel Agree to a point. But don’t forget the damage to Hillary’s campaign from a lack of spark/enthusiasm. Bernie had that then and again this time (but he is much more divisive and that loses moderates as much as it motivates activists). Overall, I think the “calm, cool head, centrist” approach will work as long as he doesn’t nuke himself.

            @Frilly, I really don’t think so. 2020 is different to 2016. Trump is not running on change, drain the swamp, give me a shot. Voters can see his failings and have discovered what they don’t like about him (even though they were willing to give him a shot in 2016). He has his base but you cannot say he cemented his swing vote from 2016. Biden is more palatable than Hillary and the Dems are not the incumbent party. Will they get off their asses and vote for Biden is the question and will he take back the swings.

          2. Vanessanelle

            Agree Trump has to change his three little words this time

            But I reckon he can trap support from not bombing anyone

            Since 2016 more and more is known about Obama & Hillary’s war mongering
            and also
            Obama was a better friend to the Gun Lobby in his first term alone than Bush Jrs two plus Trump

          3. Nigel

            I think Clinton’s campaign was more damaged by the relentless focus on the e-mail non-scandal compounded by the Comey letter and the sheer irrational ratfeckery of pizzagate and spirit cooking breaking the brains of the media and the internet than by a lack of spark or energy.

          4. Nigel

            ‘But I reckon he can trap support from not bombing anyone’

            Stopping reporting and accountability of bombing is not the same as not bombing anyone, though. He might not be too keen on that becoming an election issue.

          5. Nigel

            Trump supporters, famously derisive of sensitive snowflakes. She made one remark, taken out of conext, but their performative outrage is treated as more credible and important than outrage at Trump, eg, openly mocking a disabled man.

            Pat – for someone so vile, she sure needed a lot of help to beat.

          6. Nigel

            It just occurred to me how completely ballistic the media and Trump supporters would have gone, and how much finger-wagging there would have been from centrists, if Clinton had told Trump to ‘shut up, man’ during their debates. The outrage would have heated the planet a few more degrees.

          7. Vanessanelle

            That goes both ways Nidgie

            And you’ve all heard me example this before
            Imagine if Hillary accepted the Dems Nomination with her children from three different fathers on stage with her

            We’d never have heard the end of it
            And that’s a fact

            so Man up about that lads

          8. Nigel

            Oh yeah. Calling them ‘double’ standards’ underestimates the multiplicity of standards she was held to by several orders of magnitude.

        2. Toe Up

          Bodger, what positives do you see from Trump, both in how he conducts himself (generally and in the debate last night) and also in what he has achieved as president?

          You generally don’t seem to see any reason to be critical of him, and you also appear to be very forgiving of his handling of the Coronavirus, so can you please inform us of why you seem to be positively disposed to him.

          This is not about Biden, so please focus your response exclusively on Trump and his merits.

          1. GiggidyGoo

            I don’t think Bodger does a question and answer slot to the extent you are looking for. Maybe he does, but maybe say what your opinions are, and forget the one way traffic request ?

          2. Charger Salmons

            I believe Bodger was expressing opinions about the debate rather than Trump’s presidency as a whole.
            But, on the positive side, he produced a booming economy until the worldwide pandemic hit.
            Black people were far better off with more job prospects in Trump America than they were in Obama America.
            Wall Street has continued to boom and the American economy is rebounding thanks to a lot of the stimulus that Trump put in.
            He’s had a successful foreign policy, particularly in the Middle East with some historic deals being signed.
            And the Coronavirus has largely been fought on state rather than federal lines.
            Some of those states have been more successful than others at fighting it and that’s down to the individual states rather than federal government which has concentrated on unheralded levels of financial support.
            Of course you’re probably not aware of much of this because most of the US media like that in Ireland is liberal and biased.

  3. Listrade

    C’mon. Hopefully, no matter what side you support we can all surely agree that was horrible. A sh*t show indeed.

    But for all my left buddies, there is no victory here. We’re seeing how small things are spun, not just small things, but false things. It’s gone around the world and all the well-meaning liberals are perpetuating the story. Let’s be the ones to stop it.

    1. Would you shut, up man was kinda funny and Trump was annoying. But, we now get to forget that Biden was refusing to give a definitive policy statement. The highlight real doesn’t even show it. Biden gets a pass. The question was about the Supreme Court. It’s not like that hasn’t been a major issue this last week.

    2. White Supremacy. Trump is racist, worse he’s stupid and racist and needs the racist vote…but the spin on this bit is worrying. Yes the racists have coopted it. Yes it looks bad when isolated, but it’s clear that he misspoke. He was asked if he would tell the white supremacists to stand down. Sure he fluffed it and got in his Antifa and all that jazz, but he was asked definitively if he would tell them to stand down and then he fluffed his lines. He’s an idiot. He clearly couldn’t remember the actual term Chris Wallace said. To repeat, he’s an actual racist, he’s an actual idiot, but he didn’t deliberately tell racist militias to be on the standby for a civil war.

    And that’s just one problem: media. All the so-called trusted sources spinning a narrative when it’s unnecessary. Social media awash with retweets. We hear how democratic donations soured during the debate. I mean sure, wave your cash. Let’s see where those donations came from though. I don’t remember a Biden pledge akin to Saunders not to take the dodgy money. Kudos to Joe for having so many rich followers who can donate so much.

    We’re here in the dystopia. We’ve arrived in the sci-fi stories where the two politicians are reprehensible in their own ways, but we have to decide between two different doomsdays. Like most others, I probably prefer the one with a less overt racism (we prefer our racism hidden beneath the surface inside vague-status-quo-maintaining policies), and less overt corruption (let’s keep that to the old school lobbying and donations rather than outright nepotism and enriching yourself).

    It’s like watching City play PSG, if only there was a way for them both to lose. Except one will win and the poor will continue to lose. Let’s clap a system that makes the ultimate hegemony-preserving candidate seem like a radical.

    1. Nigel

      This will be the model going forward
      Biden – doesn’t give definitive policy statements.
      Trump – rallied white supremacists for a civil war, but a case could be made that it was an accidental rallying cry for white supremacists.
      Verdict: Biden got a pass, even though getting a proper discussion of policy past that buffoon would tax anyone.

      Blame the media all we like, but this ridiculous set of standards seems deep-rooted.

      1. Nigel

        I would never consent to a bunch of heavily armed white supremacist murderers who collude with the police and plot and prepare for a civil war oh no wait that’s Proud Boys, I do not condone the terrorists from antifa committing acts of violence against plastic bullets and tear gas canisters by viciously assaulting them with their faces.

      2. Junkface

        The real problem coming up is the hundreds of armed right wing Militia’s across the US who are now firm believers in Qanon rubbish. Come election week, waiting for the results, anything perceived as stealing the election by either side could set off riots all over the country and then if the Militia’s step up and start shooting it could spark a civil war. There’s enough division, delusion and hatred there now.

        1. Scundered

          Could have seen it coming a long time ago when identity politics started taking a grip in all aspects of society, even BLM are intent on having an armed militia, this is the leader in Oxford calling for it. https://youtu.be/XqWGlLKCxE8

          It’s about time people started really thinking about the things they support, and start judging people by individualism instead of group identities or it’s going to end in a blood bath

    2. Scundered

      He didn’t say anything racist though, that implication all happened inside left wing minds, the most racist thing going on at the moment is identity politics, which comes in the guise of far left social justice, attractive on the surface promising to deliver virtuousness to all those dumb enough to promote it, but essentially judging people by their colour and promoting accordingly. And that is Biden’s thing, and it’s burning USA to the ground.

      1. Nigel

        His 2016 campaign and presumably his current campaign treated black voters as people who had to be DETERRED. Sure, that’s a form of identity politics, but not a left one. Perhaps these actions and the attitude it suggests by the Republican Party, might have contributed to the current unrest? Don’t black people have a right to be angry and upset that they are regarded as a group to by silenced and supressed by the party that controls the presidency and the Senate, and have been for decades? Let me stress this again, because revolutions have started for less – they want to stop black people from voting.

        1. Scundered

          It is marxist group think that leads to the tribal nonsense we see on our screens, burning down everything in it’s path, propelled by western media that profits from the images, under narratives that are hideously fake. Sure let it burn, see how much that advances any cause or gains any respect…. Idiots. Even the leader of BLM has admitted to being a trained Marxist https://youtu.be/rdpIIiBe7Wc

          1. Nigel

            Hard to believe that at least some members of a group so badly let down and poorly treated by a capitalist society would turn to some other ideology. If they were disgruntled white ‘economically anxious’ people who decided to vote for an obviously unsuited white-collar criminal like Trump you’d still be blaming liberal ‘identity politics’ for forgetting about them and leaving them behind and hurting their feelings. Oh wait, that’s what everybody did!

          2. Scundered

            Nigel, first of all there’s a huge question to ask that is why do you jump to the conclusion that it must be white people to blame for any problem the black community has, if you even scratch the surface of it you find that most of it is cultural, over 70% of black kids grow up with no father figure, compared to around 35% for whites, now that’s a really big problem, as we also have a society that cannot criticise one parent families, but it’s common knowledge that young men will (on average) rebel more in that setup, and get into crime easier, leading to many of the perceived problems, these things are a lot more complex than just blame white people and start a race war. They are being played by the media, is that what you want?

          3. Nigel

            I think it’s telling that you equate ‘capitalist society’ with white people. I also think that even a cursory analysis of your ‘cultural’ problems will show deep-rooted SOCIAL problems predominantly shaped by racist policies that run back through US histoy to slavery. I get that any discussion of historical racism and its effects in the US causes reflexive ‘stop blaming white people!’ defensiveness, but you can’t understand modern America without it. Defensive white people angry about black people pointing out current and historical racism is the most destructive identity politics of all, and in Trump they found their leader.

          4. Scundered

            Why not try addressing the facts instead of spinning, Nigel you seem to hate white people or at least suffer from that brand of insufferable self loathing where you are guilty just for being a certain skin colour, and it’s no surprise judging by how much you approve of identity politics, that’s the idea of it so you are living proof of how it works. My appeal to you is that you take a moment and start examining the facts of why there are perceived differences, instead of relying on ill thought out ideologies that want a race war.

          5. Nigel

            How can you make a plea to facts while denying the facts of historical racism in the US? ‘Talking about racism in the US = hating white people’ is literally the dominant strain of identity politics in the US, and clearly in you too. The Trump campaign deliberately and strategically targeted black voters for deterrence. Pointing out how despcable and racist and opressive that is is NOT racism.

          6. Junkface


            “it must be white people to blame for any problem the black community has, if you even scratch the surface of it you find that most of it is cultural, over 70% of black kids grow up with no father figure, compared to around 35% for whites, now that’s a really big problem.”

            This is true and these real world problems in black communities are discussed in depth by Coleman Hughes, John McWhorter, Thomas Chatterton on their podcasts on youtube, all come from the black intellectual community. The only way to solve these problems are firstly to state the real facts, and secondly to take action in those communities, which they are trying to do.

          7. Nigel

            Junkface – I expect it would help if their votes weren’t being actively supressed and deterred and gerrymandered, affecting their ability to have a say in shaping the local and national policies that affect their communities.

          8. Junkface


            That is a factor in the problem, but the core of the problem goes way back to the 60’s and it is more cultural than caused by systematic voter suppression.

            I would recommend listening to John McWhorter and Coleman Hughes on this. Its very revealing and surprising.

          9. Scundered

            Nigel, nobody is denying the racism of the past, that’s well documented and was reprehensible, but this is 2020, the equality of opportunity exists for all people to go to school, to get educated, to work, to avoid crime and drugs, if people want it enough, you can’t blame the whites if others make bad choices and don’t chase that dream… There is a problem in black culture in following that pattern compared to whites, they form 13% of the American population but responsible for over 50% of homicides, it mostly stems to the problem of the family unit being broken, which I mentioned before, which you ignored.

            Also you should be aware that BLM are against the idea of the nuclear family, so do you think kids will do better in a one parent family for example?

            You should probably have a listen to this great discussion about what’s really going on

          10. Nigel

            Junkface – It goes back a lot further than that. ‘Culture’ doesn’t just materialise out of nothing, and the attempts at sytemic voter supression and deterrence are what’s happening NOW.

            Given your concern about white supremacist militias – I’d worry less about a civil war after the election and more about attempts at mass voter intimidation during the election – especially given Trump’s rallying call.

          11. Nigel

            Scundered this is 2020 and the Republican Party, which currently controls the Presidency and the Senate, is actively supressing, deterring and gerrymandering black votes, and the president sent out a rallying call to white supremacists, and if you think there isn’t some follow through from the racism of the past to the racism of the present and the real problem is family size, I don’t know what to tell you. Though black communities being over-policed and black men being sent to prison in huge numbers and black people being targeted in a ‘school-to-jail pipeline’ doesn’t help when it comes to keeping stable families together, now you come to mention it. Even that has roots in post-Civil War US when innocent black men were rounded up and sent to jail by the thousand, then used as forced labour, to replace the labour of freed slaves. Throw in mass migration to northern cities to escape Jim Crow, racist housing, lending and employment policies, the CIA flooding black areas with heroin in the 70s to fund their Cold War crap, the subsequent War On Drugs, and you have black communities struggling to overcome a massive legacy of opression, exploitation and discrimination that is continuing to this day.

          12. Junkface


            I mentioned that the cultural problem goes back to the 60’s because that’s what the black community experts have said (people mentioned above). They know their own community best and can see what is left behind after the politicians have finished electioneering in their towns, leaving broken promises. Many presidents have failed to really tackle the core of the issue. Fatherless families is a hugely important problem and as mentioned BLM and the woke movement want to further break up the family unit, which is disastrous and cruel to children.

          13. Nigel

            If the nuclear family unit is broken in black communities, and black men are still being policed, shot and impriisoned at enormous rates, coming up with a different family model to suit their needs seems like pretty much exactly the right thing to do. They probably know their communities better than you or I.

          14. Scundered

            No Nigel, as the massive differences in results between Carribbean blacks versus African blacks despite growing up together, blows your theory out of the water, it is cultural and is mostly down to people not taking responsibility for themselves, and here you are projecting the idea that they can’t compete and all they can resort to is viewing themselves as victims all the time (quite a racist viewpoint), how about suggesting constructive ideas that will actually help that community instead supporting the burning of cities and blaming others in a massive display of misunderstanding the situation, as usual.

          15. Scundered

            Jaysus Nigel, they already don’t have nuclear family units (75% of them), and it’s clear that it’s not working, so is that the dream? Why would you assume they know better if the results show it’s failing kids badly.

            Show me any social science study that says a kids is better off with 1 parent as opposed to 2

          16. Nigel

            I’m pretty sure someone telling me that black people are not culturally disposed to take personal responsibility proves me right, but it’s also a bit sad to see.

            Protesting injustice and racist policing seems pretty constructive to me, and objecting to the suprsesion of their voting rights is also quite constructive. Both also have the virtue of comepting against the people trying to opress them and refusing to be further victimised. There is a bit of deja vu to it, but nevertheless, they persist.

          17. Nigel

            Since they can’t restore nuclear familihood with a wave of a magic wand, they’re trying to suggest another model that could work for them. White people been whining about broken black families for decades, now they want to do something about it but oh my God now white people are screaming that it’s some sort of horrible threat to an already broken family system? The incoherence of it.

          18. Scundered

            Nigel, this isn’t some opinion piece, the statistics are clear that there’s a cultural difference. Or else state why performance stats are very different for Carribbean blacks under the same conditions except the Carribeans do have a much higher percentage of nuclear families. It’s very clear that it’s a cultural problem and you’re not helping them by adopting the victimhood mentality, you’re perpetuating the problem.

            Here’s an idea, why don’t they start valuing the idea of the stable nuclear family, nobody is stopping them from taking that approach. It would solve a lot. Hardly rocket science.

          19. Nigel

            I think they’re better off going after institutional racism and fighting back against the people trying to silence and suppress them and deny them their civil rights.

          20. deluded

            Hi Scundered- are these the same cultural differences between, say, Foxrock and Jobstown or am I on the wrong track altogether?
            As a frequent migrant I am a keen student of how people settle in different environments…

          21. Scundered

            Deluded: the level of money coming into a household will certainly affect things, another reason how keeping the nuclear family together is so important. My mentioning of the Carribean and African Americans shows that it is not about the area you grow up in, Coleman Hughes has gone into that in great detail if you care to look him up, but the big difference is that with Carribeans the father figure is there to a much higher percentage than African. If that father is working then it will further give the children an advantage. So these are all choices by the parents, it’s certainly not some institutional plot.

          22. Scundered

            Nigel, if your comment had any weight the people would be in court for denying them their rights, this idea of institutional racism is nothing but a dream these days, but still propelled by the media. It is an illusion nevertheless. Anyone from any background can achieve almost whatever they want, if they are determined enough. Certainly luck exists too, and having affluent background or both parents, most of it is personal choice of parents, so if you have a list of people whom you know to be holding others back because of race, please call the Gardai, it’s already illegal. We should be highlighting personal responsibility most of all.

          23. Nigel

            I’m sorry Scundered, I was going by what black Americans were saying about their experiences, but I can see that withering in the face of your unfounded confidence.

          24. deluded

            Scundered, for a start:
            ”… but the big difference is that with Carribeans the father figure is there to a much higher percentage than African…”
            Africa is a big place with many different cultures and languages; the Carribean is a disparate scattering of cultures and languages too.
            With this in mind how would you compare the experiences of say, Elon Musk and the actor Kelsey Grammer?

          25. deluded

            He explains nothing! He makes a couple of observations about the behaviour of different groups and criticises the welfare system. There is no further insight though into what has driven generations of people out of productive labour who exist only to feed the cycles of consumption (this was a point first raised by the Luddites but that is not taught in schools)
            In this video you can see Mr Hughes almost joining the dots before skipping on to ignoring the well documented divisions between all poor people who are abused and abandoned regardless of colour:

            “… Black people don’t need another apology. We need safer neighbourhoods and better schools. We need a less punitive justice system. We need affordable healthcare…”

            It sounds to me like institutional racism by default, it’s an awful system for all poor people but if you are black you are the child or grandchild of those who lived under Jim Crow.
            To immediately, en masse, reinvent themselves as privileged and educated as he says that he is would be extraordinary, superhuman even.
            Have you brought your argument to the people of Jobstown Scundered? How was it received?

          26. Scundered

            Deluded, just what point is it you’re trying to make, you mean you watched the entirety of the link I posted and still learned nothing? And what’s with the constant referencing of Jobstown? If you have any points of relevance to make please state them.

          27. deluded

            I watched your link, which had no facts.
            I then posted this same commentator, Coleman Hughes, describing systemic racism.
            The reference to Jobstown is me simply trying to apply your position to a familiar, local situation.
            Forget Jobstown and Foxrock and the nuclear family.
            Let’s apply your argument to Northern Ireland where skin colour is not the issue and the dominant religion believes in divorce.
            How does it work now? Do you believe there is anything systemic at work there? What would you say to a British person who speaks about the Irish (their own fellow citizens, remember) the way you speak about the vast continent of Africa or about the Carribean?

  4. Slightly Bemused

    Strangely, having spent time in the US, that statement would not be taken as rude in the way it is here. Merely blunt. In a peculiar way, it may actually strengthen Biden’s profile as someone who can speak bluntly rather than sugar coating his response.

  5. Listrade

    1. 1973 US Department of Justice sues Trump for racist housing policy.
    2. 1989 Trump takes out full page ad for death sentence of Central Park Five.
    3. 1989 Trump “laziness is a trait of blacks”
    4. 2000 Trump fined $250,000 for running ads against native americans who were competing with his casino.

    You could also include the “birther” movement, calling out a hispanic judge..heck the whole mexican thing, the many fine people thing about a Neo-Nazi rally. There were no fine people on both sides. They were making Nazi salutes, flying Nazi flags, wearing Nazi clothes, making Nazi chants.

    or how about the muslims celebrating in NY streets comment after 911? Retweeting far right tweets:

    But yeah, it’s not conclusive.

      1. Junkface

        Those are facts. Not fake news. Trump is a racist and anyone who worked with him long enough knows that.

        Only a racist could be so triggered by the first black president of the USA that accuses him of not being American. The whole birther thing. Then when Kamala Harris gets the nod, he tried the birther stuff on her. It’s as clear as the sky is blue.

    1. Junkface

      Why were all of the replies to this deleted? My comments had no bad language

      BS SEZ: you reply was appended to that of a comment from a banned user (since deleted) and was then removed as it no longer had context

  6. Eoin

    Biden is pure swamp creature. Debate was interesting. The moderator was, of course, completely biased in favour of Biden. He shut down Trump a couple of times as he was getting too close to scoring major hits on Biden. It was blatant. I hope Trump eviscerates this scumbag in the election. If Biden wins, God help the USA.

  7. Dr.Fart

    irish pro-trumps are even dumber than american pro-trumps. few of em in the comments here, really need to take a look at themselves. the only thing you like about him is he winds up people you dont like. absolute sad acts.

    1. Junkface

      They’re called ‘rubes’. Anyone who believes a conman and a fraud are rubes lacking in critical thinking. Anyone from New York who grew up in the 70’s to 90’s will tell you the same.

      Trump is also one of the worst businessmen in US history. All of his businesses make a loss until he folds / bankruptcy and looks for handouts from the corrupt US system.

        1. GiggidyGoo

          Compare that to our own Dinny, who never has to worry about debt. Not that he’s such a good businessman (he isn’t), but that we (this country) supply billions to his businesses so that he doesn’t have to take chances. At least Trump loses his own money. Our leaders throws our money away.

      1. Dr.Fart

        He’s so transparently stupid, selfish, corrupt.. there’s no way people can’t see how awful he is. I understand there’s Americans who ignore all that because he does things that benefit them or aides their own prejudices.. but people in Ireland, who don’t even benefit from his actions liking him.. is just so weird

  8. Charger Salmons

    I doubt these debates will change much.
    Most people who hate Trump hated him first time round and the people who voted for the awful Clinton last time round will vote for the early-onset dementia candidate this time.
    Like last time it will be a few hundred thousand voters in a few wards in half a dozen swing states who’ll decide the outcome.
    But anyone making predictions this early on in the campaign is being rash.
    Anything can happen and probably will.
    Buckle up.

  9. Cian

    From these comments (and similar comments on other social media) I would say:

    1. If you are a Trump supporter – you think Trump won.
    2. If you are not a Trump supporter – you think BIden won.

    Confirmation bias at it’s finest.

    My view is that it is a sad state of affairs when these two are the “best” that the United States can provide as Presidential candidates.

    1. Vanessanelle

      so C!an, tell us
      how does it feel to agree with me

      Lil will be around with a thermometer in a bit, don’t worry, we got ya
      Maybe Leo too, with a face mask for the photo op

      in the meantime, g’wan

      like, did My view is that it is a sad state of affairs when these two are the “best” that the United States can provide as Presidential candidates
      is it sore
      or does it just taste like you ate a bad fishfinger

        1. V AKA Frilly Keane

          me fretting about you is now ‘an attack’

          Would ya stop
          Calm down before you have us wondering a bit too closely over that ‘attack’ with the cuppa something over Leo and the run awayfg skateboarder

          Hon’ Norma btw

    2. Nigel

      I have to say that I think the overwhelming need to call winners and losers in these debates, relegating what was actually said to a secondary consideration at best, relevant only insofar as it contributed to the winning or the losing, is depressingly reductive.

    3. Junkface

      America needs new political parties because both have been run with the main goal of keeping the millionaire politicians wealthy and in power, therefore crushing workers unions, followed by wage stagnation for 40 years until the absolute mess we have now. Two or three generations of young people cannot afford a home, cannot even save money, they are living from paycheck to paycheck, then if they get sick in their middle ages they go bankcrupt because of the inhumane, corrupt healthcare system.

      Trump is the symptom of a very sick and corrupt system. Especially with regards to the rich never paying taxes in comparable portions to the working / middle class. The super wealthy have destroyed America and turned it into the shambles we see today.

      I agree both candidates for the president are not up to modern standards. Its the same awful choice every 4 years.

      Andrew Yang was the best candidate for the Dems. He is clued in.

    4. Charger Salmons

      Swing voters will be driven by value of their 401k, job prospects and law and order not empty platitudes about global warming and better relations with China.
      Anyone who thinks Biden is a shoo-in at this stage is delusional.

      1. Nigel

        I agree. Let’s not rule out voter supression and foreign interference as being decisive in Trump’s favour just yet.

          1. Nigel

            Don’t worry, Pat, that doesn’t include you posting the same questions and catch-phrases over and over and over and over

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