83 thoughts on “Thursday’s Papers

  1. Charger Salmons

    To all the sillies on here who have spent the past four years insisting the Brexit referendum was fixed by dark forces and Russian influence this story in the FT has a simple message for you.
    You’ve been talking out of your botties.

    ‘ A sprawling investigation into controversial digital marketing firm Cambridge Analytica and its associate company SCL has found no evidence that it misused data in an attempt to influence the 2016 Brexit referendum or help any Russian intervention in political processes. ‘


      1. Rob_G

        So pizzagate, QANON == fine

        The existence of Russian troll farms == “woah, adjust your tinfoil hat there, pal”

        1. bisted

          …can I throw my crazy idea into the mix…sorry it doesn’t involve pizza or reds under the bed and I’m not disputing that dirty tricks don’t exist, but they are replicated on both sides and tend to cancel each other.
          The Brexit referendum and US Presidential election took place round about the same time…both gave results that contradicted those that opinion polls had forecast…the opinion polls were responsible for the result because large numbers decided they did not need to vote because the outcome was so clear cut…
          …crazy, I know…not a conspiracy theory in sight…

          1. Cian

            I’m not disputing that dirty tricks don’t exist, but they are replicated on both sides and tend to cancel each other.

            That only works locally.

            Take the US Presidential election. If the Dems and Reps are both pulling dirty tricks (equally successfully) then they cancel each other out – fair enough. However if the Russians (hypothetically) get involved then they will only attack one side – so there isn’t a balance. Unless you are suggesting that multiple foreign powers are all interfering with the election on both sides and they will somehow balance out?

          2. Rob_G

            That would be fine – were it not contradicted by the traffic emanating from 3,800 Russian accounts, tweeting pro-Brexit messages right before the vote.

          3. Vanessanelle

            I know Bisto

            Something else
            Bot Farms are big industry in Russian and China
            They don’t care who or what are the targets
            they have quotas – like piece work
            It could well be the biggest growing Gig Economy gig – if you know what I mean
            So I reckon they work for anyone anywhere, and don’t care as long as the price is right, its upfront, and they reach their quotas

            So why wouldn’t these professional disrupters have in interest in both US 2016 Presidential Campaigns – either for one client or a number of clients
            Both campaigns were huge, millions – maybe even up to a yard
            In 2016 it was all to play for – no one knew what was coming down the tracks in a Trump WH, and they knew exactly what HCs term would be all about and who for

            so one way or another there was immense interest in the campaigns what ever the outcomes

            Same with Brexit

            Bot Farms a totally unregulated, Gosh
            They’re not required to consider conflict of interest and adhere to Chinese walls around the office
            Or fee capping from major clients

            They work for them all
            and sell stuff collected for one crowd onto another
            Dog eat Dog lads
            get used to it
            its the new Democracy they are going to try and sell to ye

            Elections and Referendums have gone way beyond negative campaigning, and the kinda stuff the LoveBoths were are at.
            There’s an Anarchy ‘department/ room/ team’ now , like I said Dog Eat Dog

            Actually wrote about it – published somethere else

          4. bisted

            …I’m just suggesting that the reason for particular outcomes in democratic votes may be straightforward…some people may not like them and suggest all kinds of nefarious influences on voter behaviour…to me this betrays a democratic deficit on the part of people who did not get the result they wanted…voters therefore, are stupid, easily led, idiots…insert whatever excuse you wish…the more outlandish the better…

          5. Rob_G

            Tbh bisted, you come across as sounding unconcerned at the fact that a government interfered with the democratic processes of other other sovereign nations(s), just because the result(s) were ones that stuck it to the “elites”.

          6. Vanessanelle

            Ah yeah

            I’m only promoting the idea that both sides in these campaigns are equally targeted
            so one is no more imposed upon or infringed upon than the other

          7. Rob_G

            I couldn’t make heads nor tail of your point Vanessa, other than the fact that you seem terribly blasé about the whole thing.

            What if the people interfering on behalf of one “side” has a lot more money than the other? If either the marriage equality or abortion referenda results had gone the other way, and it was demonstrated that foreign interference played a role, I doubt that you’d be so blasé about it.

          8. Charger Salmons

            What’s really instructive is how little coverage there is today of the result of the independent ICO’s investigation compared to the left-wing media saturation coverage of the claims against Cambridge Analytica and its supposed role in Brexit.
            I’m thinking of course of the BBC.
            It just doesn’t fit into their ludicrous narrative that millions of racist gammons had their heads turned by Vlad the Cad’s nefarious St Petersburg troll farms.

          9. bisted

            …I’m trying to come across as someone who believes in evidence…you have evidence thanks to Edward Snowden and JulianAssange that the US have been in widespread monitoring but none on what Russia may have done other than speculation…you have evidence that Brexit has been voted for twice in the UK…you have evidence crooked Hillary defied the polls and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory…I believe that these outcomes were due to complacency on the part of people who decided they didn’t need to participate in the democratic process…I think my analysis is as valid as anyone else’s and it starts from the basic assumption that people are not as easily swayed as to be influenced by someone sitting at a keyboard in Vladivostok…

          10. Charger Salmons

            I’m not sure the Brexit vote was down to complacency.
            The referendum had the largest turnout in the history of British democracy.
            Remain heavily outspent Leave by a considerable margin and that’s not including the £6million of government money Cameron spent on sending a Vote Remain leaflet to every household in Britain promising to respect the outcome.
            Leave had a better campaign and a charismatic leader in Boris.
            The fact that so many Tory MPs who subsequently spent several years using every trick they could to reverse the result were removed from office and so many Labour Red Wall seats fell to Boris last December also indicates how pissed off Leave voters were at their original decision being ignored.
            It’s called democracy.

          11. Junkface

            I think Panorama did a documentary report on Russian bot farms and hacking a couple of years ago. They actually went to the locations of the buildings and included interviews with Finnish, Lithuanian and Estonian Governments who described the attacks their systems underwent every year they had elections coming up. It was detailed and they had an abundance of evidence and a dialogue between each country experiencing Russian attempts at hacking elections. There is evidence out there if you ask Russia’s neighbours. Russia invaded Finland in 1941 I think in a violent attempt to take the whole country. They lost that war, but Putin has never forgotten and wants Finland to be Russian. That is what’s behind the thinking of the powerful today in Russia, a continuation of USSR empire. Its no coincidence that Russia has never officially denounced the genocides it committed on Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and its own people between the 1930’s and 1950’s. Thousands of Russians have requested information on their murdered ancestors, all in the name of communism and they just get stonewalled.

          12. Nigel

            ‘tend to cancel each other.’
            That’s a huge and unsupported assumption. At their worst, damage inflicted by interventions by competing states do not ‘cancel each other out.’
            ‘the opinion polls were responsible for the result’
            This seems backward. More obviously, the discrepancy between the results and the polls suggest SOMETHING happened to affect the outcome. Asserting it was the polls themselves is another massive and unsupported assumption.

          13. Nigel

            ‘it starts from the basic assumption that people are not as easily swayed as to be influenced by someone sitting at a keyboard in Vladivostok…’

            According to the Mueller report, in the run up to the 2016 election public demonstrations were held in the US that were entirely organised by foreign agents.

          14. bisted

            …the remoaners showed the folly of believing your own press releases…not to mention press…the polls showed that remain would be carried overwhelmingly, so much so that complacency set in and millions did not bother participate…you and I were the two loudest pro-brexit voices on here…albeit, for opposite reasons…

          15. Nigel

            ‘It’s called democracy.’

            I agree. The Russia Report showed that Russian oligarchs have there claws deeply embedded in the upper echelons of British politics and finance – interfering in elections the way they did in the US would be redundant.

          16. Nigel

            ‘I’m only promoting the idea that both sides in these campaigns are equally targeted’

            Equally targeted with the same purpose using different methods, V. That just means they used two-pronged attack, not that ‘both sides’ were at it.

          17. V AKA Frilly Keane

            Hi Rob
            I get your point about the what if
            Particularly around available resources

            But this is the way our Democracy now works
            It’s the future of how elections/ referendums will be run won and lost
            Particularly National ones

            Democracy is getting dirtier and dirtier
            And more sneaky and sordid
            Which explains the calibre of candidates willing to subject themselves to it

            The days of vandalising posters being the height of it are long gone

            And Nidgie
            Yes two pronged would be more accurate

    1. Brother Barnabas

      the issue of alleged russian interference in the brexit vote was very explicitly outside the remit of the inquiry. so no real surprise there. what it does say is that its analysis of data on CA and SCL servers, which were seized, didnt reveal “any additional evidence” of russian involvement

      so more a “we werent looking for evidence of russian involvement but, as it happens, we didnt come across any”

      1. Charger Salmons

        Well we can’t be certain of that until GiggidyGoo has had a shower and changed his underwear after using a toffee hammer to chip himself from the seat where he has been posting constantly on here since 3.31am on Wednesday.
        A litre of Red Bull and a few words of encouragement from his Mam should see him through the wee small hours.
        An internet warrior’s work is never done.

        1. Brother Barnabas

          I think giggidygoo is a lady, like with boobies and stuff

          I may be wrong – have that made that mistake before

          1. Charger Salmons

            Well if that’s the case I feel a cad and a bounder for being so beastly.
            I’d never treat a laydee with such disrespect.
            Even V.

        2. GiggidyGoo

          Morning all. Another early start. Have to keep the wheels of commerce in motion.
          Well, I hadn’t posted any opinions on Russian interference in Brexit. The story is so good that Charger posted it earlier on, had no bites, so had a conversation between…. well, between himself. Should have called Alex/Alexandra/Thessaloniki from the time – shared sleeping bag and single bed for some support.

          Nice to know that I’ve a pod reserved in Chargers brain. It’s a joy to see his inferiority complex eating away at him and that i’m high on his list of subjects for discussion.

          2:40 approx. or, in Chargers time, 6 hours 20 minutes to Bean-O-Clock served in the Little Bedsit by the idiot boy. Pip pip.

    2. scottser

      Investigation by whom? How independent were these investigators? Or were they appointed by the vested interests they’re supposed to protect, like every regime does?
      I mean you crowing about thus report is like us shouting ‘i told you woulfe was innocent’.
      You really are a mug.

    3. Formerly known as @ireland.com

      Good to see the Spectator knows that the north of Ireland is not part of their little country.

  2. newsjustin

    4 minutes debating time given to 70 TDs who voted against the assisted suicide Bill (front page of the Irish Examiner). That’s a real thorough debate.

  3. Micko

    That Guardian piece on 80% of people being asymptomatic is mental.

    Love to know how big the sample size was, and why they were tested with no symptoms.
    I’m sure it’s track and trace, workplace testing etc, but would be interesting to know.

    The full article might be up online soon.

      1. Nigel

        Trump’s been on Fox News calling for his political rivals to be arrested – do you think it’s habbening yet?

  4. goldenbrown

    yet another solid episode of ze Trump show but it’s getting all a bit too predictable now, they should think about replacing the scriptwriters now lol

    “Trump calls Covid diagnosis ‘blessing from God’ amid false treatment claims”

    “I feel great. I feel, like, perfect,” the president says in the video. “I think this was a blessing from God, that I caught it. This was a blessing in disguise. I caught it, I heard about this drug, I said let me take it. It was my suggestion.”

    IMDB – 5.8/10
    Tomatometer – 52%

  5. SOQ

    For those who complain about the Daily Mail being the same in Ireland as UK- the difference between their front pages today could not be more stark.

    Ireland’s is towing the sycophantic party line while the UK’s shouts ‘SO WHEN WILL THEY LISTEN?’ citing a new study which reveals CoVid rules may INCREASE deaths, that 8 out of 10 with the virus have no symptoms and that tighter measures have not helped 19 of 20 northern towns.

    And as above, even The Metro is turning because Labour are finally doing their job as opposition. Sinn Féin- where art thou?

  6. ReproBertie

    I see the Irish strain of Coronavirus has spread to mainland Europe closing bars in Paris and Brussels.

        1. Charger Salmons

          Waiting expectantly for the thundering editorial denouncing the way the leaders of these countries are handling the virus written from a country where its leaders are not handling the virus very well.
          Get off your knees man and show some backbone
          The runny nose up against Blighty’s window is not a good look.

          1. ReproBertie

            Just remind me, how many of those other countries do we share a land border with? I know Britain’s teaboy Taoiseach, and apparently the Spectator, tends to forget that but on this island it’s something we have to consider.

          2. Charger Salmons

            You think French or German or Spanish newspapers are writing thundering editorials about how the countries they share a land border with are doing ?
            Irish exceptionalism getting a good airing here.
            ’twas ever thus.

          3. ReproBertie

            You think France, Germany or Spain have to deal with the fallout from policy u-turns and confusing guidelines in countries they share a land border with?

            You get very annoyed when Irish media point out the slightest flaw in the UK. Your jingoism must be very delicate.

  7. millie madonna

    What’s the correlation you’re attempting to draw here? What election, for that matter? The US election?

    1. Junkface

      They are in a world of their own. Like a room with photos pinned to the wall and strings connecting it all together. Like Carrie in that TV show Homeland. Sure its all grand

  8. SOQ

    Limerick doctor ‘removed’ from role as chair of Shannondoc after Covid rally speech

    THE CHAIRPERSON of Shannondoc has been removed from his position, after he delivered a scathing anti-Covid restriction speech against Nphet and the Government at a rally in Dublin at the weekend.

    Dr Patrick Morrissey, who operates a clinic in Adare, told the Limerick Leader that a meeting of the Shannondoc board on Monday night concluded that he was to be removed from the board as chairman and director.

    “People die every day. I was at the bedside of a patient who died yesterday. I see death all the time. People are abstracted. People don’t understand they’ve got a death phobia. Death is part of life. And the Government and Nphet are using people’s fear of death—irrational fear of death—as a hammer to beat them.”


    1. Cian

      Confirmed Cases in Hospital 159 (+3), the highest since 3rd June.
      this was 122 a week ago (30% increase).

      ICU numbers aren’t out for today, but were 27 yesterday, the highest since 14th June.
      this was 20 a week ago (35% increase).


      1. SOQ

        Or another way looking at it- in the past 24 hours there was a nett increase of 2 to ICU and 5 to hospital.

        What percentage of overall fatalities was due to CoVid (with or from) in the past week?


        1. Cian

          OMG are you really that thick?
          “If we look at one day it is only 5 extra people.”

          it is 5 extra people every day . In a week this is 35 **extra** people.

          The numbers were small, and they kept rising, a month ago it was “only” one or two people a day, now it is five extra people a day.

          1. SOQ

            I never used the word ‘only’ because every fatality is one to many but- I am questioning the motive for such fear mongering on such small numbers without comparisons to other diseases.

            So again I ask- what percentage of overall fatalities was due to CoVid (with or from) in the past week?

          2. Cian

            What other disease is as virulent as Covid and has seen the number of hospitalizations and ICU beds double in the last 3 weeks? And if left unchecked is likely to double in the next 3 weeks?

        2. Formerly known as @ireland.com

          @SOQ – Exponential growth……….and limited ICU/hospital bed/medical staff capacity. That is why. If nobody ever died but the same number get sick, there needs to be action. When the hospitals are full, people with other conditions can’t get treated.

          1. SOQ

            But that is not what happened here Formely- most hospital services were shut down right through the summer when it was glaringly obvious that CoVId-18 was not a problem.

            As for exponential growth- there was a certain element of that in the first half of the year but again, nowhere near what was projected.

            I know you argue for lock downs but one thing that sticks in my mind is that SARS-Cov-2 has been found in sewage system samples 2-3 months before outbreaks occurred.

            How can that be if the assumed transmission routes are correct?

          2. ReproBertie

            “As for exponential growth- there was a certain element of that in the first half of the year but again, nowhere near what was projected. ”
            You mean, when we locked down to counter the projected case rise?

      2. E'Matty

        And you have no way of knowing what it is that is putting those people in ICU. Might it be heart disease, or chronic neurological diseases, or perhaps chronic respiratory diseases, or cancer? Has Covid got anything to do with their admission to ICU? We don’t know because they don’t provide that information. They only tell us who tested positive based on their flawed PCR test.

        “#AhSureItsJustTheFlu”. It does appear to be only marginally worse than the annual flu given the WHO’s own claim during the week that 10% of the global population already has had this strain of coronavirus. Even with the grossly exaggerated global death figures, this results in just a 0.13% fatality rate and a 99.87% survival rate, which is only marginally worse than the annual flu’s circa 0.1% fatality rate.

        1. Cian

          How is the ‘flu fatality rate(or 0.1%) calculated? is it based on the number of people that are tested positive for flu? Or do they increase this number by 1000% to include all the people that have asymptomatic flu?

          We need to compare like-with-like

    2. E'Matty

      The witchhunt against anyone who dare question the offical fearmongering narrative goes on. Any medical professional who speaks out is being targeted. We have now seen Dr Patrick Morrissey, Dr Marcus De Brun and Dr Martin Feeley all suffer for daring speak the truth.

      1. SOQ

        Meanwhile- 4245 Medical & Public Health Scientists and 7692 Medical Practitioners have signed the Great Barrington Declaration.


        At what point do these lockdown zealots concede that they do not have science on their side?

          1. SOQ

            It is not just numbers and you know it- are you actually trying to run this group of experts down?

            Just look at the authors

            Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring of infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations.

            Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases.

            Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable populations.

        1. Formerly known as @ireland.com

          @SOQ – They know how to over simplify things.

          “The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection. ”

          – What herd immunity? It is not proven.

          – This mythcal protection of those at highest risk is impossible. All the vulnerable interact with people, who interact with other people, who interact with other people. Show me one country where the vulnerable were protected this way. It is not possible.

  9. millie madonna

    @John Ryan

    I only got the chance to watch it last night, but I wanted to say well done on the interview with Irvin. Well done to both of you. It was a great watch. It’d be great to see more stuff with Irvin on BS TV in relation to George Gibney.

    1. Lilly

      One of Swim Ireland’s board, John Mullins, has resigned after telling the BBC podcast that he provided bail for Gibney in 1993.

      1. millie madonna

        I didn’t know that. Thanks Lilly.

        It gives me chills when I think about the fact that it has taken so long for any repercussions to come for those who protected Gibney and helped him, despite so much evidence against him. And even then, resigning from a board really isn’t much of a consequence at all.

        1. Lilly

          And after listening to the podcast, the duffer who resigned sounds like an innocent who was totally taken in by Gibney. The podcast is good so far, despite Irvin’s misgivings. Anything that puts the spotlight on this case is welcome IMO. I remain hopeful that Gibney’s victims will eventually get justice. Extradite the wretch already.

    2. John Ryan

      Millie, yes, we’ll definitely have Irvin back, maybe with someone from the podcast. Thank you (very much) for your kind words.

  10. Charger Salmons

    Interesting development coming out of the Brexit negotiations and signs that things are ticking along nicely.
    The Paris Agreement on climate change is to be hardwired into Brexit trade deal which will be suspended if UK or EU quits the UN accord to limit global temperatures.

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