Rural Independent TD Mattie McGrath says @CMOIreland “was riding back in like John Wayne with his six guns. Swinging around like he’s going to close down the whole country.” pic.twitter.com/luNoCN6syy
— Ciara Phelan (@ciaraphelan_) October 6, 2020
This afternoon.
Independent TD Mattie McGrath gets stuck into Chief Medical Officer, Dr Tony Holohan and his six-gun, Level 5 shenagians.
FIGHT!
Update: Deputy McGrath has apologised to Dr Tony Holohan and his family for asking where he’s been the past few weeks. He said he knew Dr Holohan was looking after his ill wife.
Earlier: The Public Wants More Restrictions Rather Than Fewer
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Django Unmasked.
He’s not entirely wrong you know
about the composition of NPHET
There’s no business person there. Yeah, because it’s public health committee.
He is right that NPHET weren’t elected by doing parish pump favours. They were appointed based on experience and qualifications.
They are all civil servants, the qualification of the majority are very questionable.
Also, the role of the CMO is:
The key responsibilities of the Chief Medical Officer include;
providing expert medical evidence, analysis and advice to the Minister, Ministers of State and to the Department, especially in public health matters;
leading and managing the Department’s team of Medical Officers;
leading on patient safety issues, emergency planning and other assigned areas of work;
When has Holohan ever commented on patient safety?
They aren’t all civil servants.
They make recommendations on public health. It’s politicians who make desicions based on those recommendations. Attacking the source of the recommendations is a sign of a deep lack of confidence in the decisions they HAVE made. They’re risk averse, and ther only choices are both deeply risky ones, so they’re shifting the blame.
Attacking
c’mon ou’ that Nidgie
I’m remarking on the composition of NPHET
and the dominance of DoH/ HSE personnel
Fair enough you might say, that’s the very jurisdiction this Pandemic falls into
But you can’t ignore the risk of influence here
Not just by the numbers of personnel they have loaded in, but also add in the personnel who rely on DoH/HSE for their funding
and you can’t ignore that the DoH/ HSE are no strangers to keeping the truth in the dark
There is a huge risk here
Whether you choose to see it or not
It is there
Only thing to counter is to have an Oversight / Supervisors panel observing
Maybe from the Comptroller Auditor General’s Office or ODCE or even the Central Bank
They would all be very familiar with that type of Oversight on behalf of the wider stakeholder groups
And it does promise transparency
There’s another committee that advises on economic impacts etc after NPHET gives it’s advice. There’s also the Oireachtas Committee.
I get that
but the one opening the news every day
with paps outside
is the NPHET one
its about influence
And by the looks of it the Dept of Health and the HSE have all the swagger they need to control the narrative of this thing
Fair enough, more transparency is vital, but it isn’t as if the people making the actual decisions seem to be basing them on whether they feel a goose walking over their grave or not. Transparency is no cure for that kind of thing.
Dr Tony Holohan is really well regarded and given the personal circumstances he has just gone through, I think Mattie is totally failing to read the mood here (whether he’s right or wrong is totally different)
He used to be well regarded until his Cervical Cancer cover-up attempts.
Well regarded as someone who tries to hide a scandal.
Matty displaying the 5 levels of gobpoopery to the press today. I’ll leave it to yourself to workout what level we’re on with Matty.
We will see a lockdown in November.
no need. No evidence that lockdowns are effective at reducing the impact of the virus. Just wash your hands, keep a social distance, increase the iCU capacity and protect the most vulnerable in as far as possible (which the State has completely failed to do) and let’s all get back to living again.
How do you protect the vulnerable? That is a goal not a plan or action.
There is of course evidence that lockdowns reduce the impact of the virus. Have a look at the number of Covid-19 cases during lockdown and following easing of restrictions bearing in mind most people’s before takes up to 6 weeks after the lifting of restrictions to actually significantly change. The numbers of daily confirmed cases didn’t go down to low double digits by accident.
Control the environment they are in. Ensure that all nursing and care homes have a full provision of PPE (this was not the case in Ireland), and have safety measures in place for deliveries, vistors, staff etc… Provide services to the elderly such as shopping and others services at home, to avoid the need for them to have to go to any crowded place. Ensure you have a State that isn’t bankrupt so we can provide support and care inot the future.
“There is of course evidence that lockdowns reduce the impact of the virus. Have a look at the number of Covid-19 cases during lockdown and following easing of restrictions bearing in mind most people’s before takes up to 6 weeks after the lifting of restrictions to actually significantly change. The numbers of daily confirmed cases didn’t go down to low double digits by accident.” – that’s not evidence. Correlation does not equal caustion, especially as almost all viruses follow a pattern of surge and then gradual decline, which is what we have witnessed with this virus. There are a number of stuides which actually refute your claim that lockdowns have a positive impact on infection numbers and outcomes. What we see now is just a rise in cases due to increased testing, and the natural increase in hospitalisation of the elderly we witness at this time of year every year. The panic being instilled in the public due to these case rises is actually a disgrace. Most are asymptomatic (how many are false positives?) and in groups who are not at risk.
People like you have this myopic view that obsesses over Covid, and completely ignores all other aspects of society and public health. Hopefully now we will see some semblance of sanity and rational thought enter our country’s discourse and approach to what is in fact not a particularly deadly virus (0.13% based on the WHO’s estimates, which incldued inflated death rates so actually even lower than this). The hysteria and fearmongering need to end and we need to start returning society back to normal, not this ridiculous so called “new normal”.
Don’t “people like you” me. People who are vulnerable to Covid-19 aren’t all in nursing homes. The over 75s aren’t all in nursing homes and massive % of the population have underlying conditions including diabetes, asthma, and high blood pressure.
i think you misunderstand the difference between evidence and conclusive proof. You demonstrate that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing with your reference to causation and correlation and indeed you do have very little knowledge. The drop in numbers during lockdown certainly is evidence.
If you’re going to refer to studies please provide the details.
‘People like you have this myopic view that obsesses over Covid, and completely ignores all other aspects of society and public health’
Yes, by all means, let’s add this covid nonsense to all the other social and public health problems we’ve been completely ignoring for decades.
COVID-19 transmission in the U.S. before vs. after relaxation of statewide social distancing measures
…
Conclusions
We detected an immediate and significant reversal in SARS-CoV-2 epidemic suppression after relaxation of social distancing measures across the U.S. Premature relaxation of social distancing measures undermined the country’s ability to control the disease burden associated with COVID-19.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1502/5917573
“We detected an immediate and significant reversal in SARS-CoV-2 epidemic suppression after relaxation of social distancing measures across the U.S. ” I think you’ll find their testing numbers rose by a similar amount during that very same period. More tests. More cases.
And to think people like you object when other people call Trump your de facto spokesperson. Don’t cry for me, I’m covida.
Oxford University Press is a department of the University of Oxford.
Oxford University Press
Great Clarendon Street
Oxford OX2 6DP
UK
No skin in the game then?
Maybe quote something more independent, and not a branch of a place which is ‘developing’ a Covid-19 treatment with Astra Zenica.
(Oxford University students make up 70% of Coronavirus cases in Oxford 02.10.2020 – maybe they’re guinea pigs?)
https://youtu.be/9saz5Hp646E
Oxford epidemiologist
So we can’t reference Oxford studies then?
Others can link to dodgy anti-vaxx websites and get a free pass but Oxford is forbidden?
“I am not a gombeen from Tipperary” – Mattie McGrath, some months ago….
Hmmm, Varadkar praised for sticking the boot in so Mattie polishes up his own boots the next morning, says a lot about the level of political intelligence in the country.
leo has stupidly allowed any difference in opinion between NPHET and the government to be aired thus emboldening the anti-maskers and thicks like mattie. typical self-service by leo
Completely agree, however NPHET were taking the pee leaking the level 5 recommendation when they did (unless someone else did it?) so it looked to me like he was putting them back in their box for overstepping.
The papers are publishing comments from Ministers speaking under anonymity so why would you assume that NPHET leaked the letter?
It was not in their interest to leak it and the leak has led to massive criticism of them.
When trying to figure out who is secretly providing information to the press I’d be looking at the people who we know are secretly providing info to the press and that’s not NPHET that’s Ministers.
Which Ministers and what’s in it for them to torpedo NPHET?
Maybe the Varadkar side leaked it? On Sept 1st. he tweeted “217 positive tests for CoVid reported today but 10 days with no reported deaths. Similar pattern across Europe. Second wave of cases started months ago but at this point there’s no significant second wave of illness, hospitalisation or death.”
That was a terrible message to send, especially given that the US had been through a similar lull between rising cases and rising hospitalisations etc. before deaths began rising again. Varadkar has a lot to answer for. No wonder so many people loosened up.
Since then the number in hospital has more than quadrupled, the number in ICU beds has almost quadrupled, and the number of deaths in September was, according to NPHET, 8 times that of August (34 vs 4). Even if all the backlog of 8 pre-September deaths announced on October 3 were in August, the death rate still almost trebled between August and September. And rates took another big jump last weekend.
Varadkar has opened the floodgates
Excellent…
It’s been great to watch. The tide is turning. Need to keep pushing it forward until we have a political environment in which lockdowns are no longer possible. Time to rebuild the country.
I like the line (paraphrased) that Varadkar came out with last night.
“It’s not just about public health, it’s about Public interest”
Public Health vs Public Interest – now there’s an argument to get us back on track
Or we could spend the next 5 effin years under restrictions. (Christ – I’d probably vote for him, if he gets us out of this mess)
“(Christ – I’d probably vote for him, if he gets us out of this mess)” – let’s not get carried away now :-)
Leo is neither inside the tent peeing out , nor outside the tent peeing in.
He is standing in the middle of the tent peeing up in the air. Hoping to remain the driest.
A fine example to us all !
You have to admit- it is quite a skill to be in Government and present as being the opposition at the one time.
Perhaps he learnt from SF in the NI Assembly?
Good man Cian. The NI Assembly isn’t a Government. Time after time after time you try that old lemon. Poor show.
Do they govern?
Have they any power?
Are they elected representatives?
Do they present themselves as opposition?
The Northern Ireland Assembly is the devolved legislature for Northern Ireland. It has the power to make laws in a wide range of areas, including housing, employment, education, health, agriculture and the environment. It meets at Parliament Buildings, Belfast.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/northern-ireland-assembly
So, you agree that the Northern Ireland Asssbly isn’t a Government then?
They are an assembly. Westminster governs Northern Ireland. Westminster provides the money from Westminster’s budget. So, no the assembly doesn’t Govern. It hasn’t powers to make all laws. Your quotation says it – it is a devolved legislature. Those powers aren’t transferred – they are delegated.
Ministers in Northern Ireland have been given wide-ranging powers to respond to the coronavirus pandemic, and their respective legislatures have had to innovate in order to hold ministers to account for how these powers are used.
But, it is not a Government.
That’ll teach Cian to mistake the members of the NI Assembly for some sort of governing body!
They have power
They can make laws
They govern
…but they aren’t a government.
I imagine that Leo would be repulsed by the very suggestion that he “learned” anything, as you put it from Sinn Fein here or in the NI Assembly – either way cian, who schooled Leo is a discussion for another day.
Varadkar, and FG, when he was Taoiseach, was schooled regularly by all opposition, but mainly by SF. Who remembers Noonan and the ‘Fiscal Space’ , or Paschal Donohue’s laws in relation to Transport?
@GiggidyGoo
if you still have to rely on the one time that SF ‘schooled’ Noonan over 4 years ago….
He loves taking leaks. Carries a colander about with him I believe to make it easier.
“Sure ya cant be at dat lads”
The key things is not the cowboy reference it is “where has Tony Holohan been? Off with the WTO?”.
He has been with his terminally ill wife. Mattie is a disgraceful little runt.
She is not so terminally ill then- just sick is it?
Loving the visor in the back row…
Performative cute-hoor gombeenism. I see Mattie is accompanied by others in the swelled-gut and modern-dentistry-shunning brigade.
Tony Holohan is the man to help us survive this awful Covid we should take his advice .
Typical over dramatics from the lockdown zealots. Give it a break. According to the latest WHO figures on numbers who have contracted the virus, we are seeing a 99.87% survival rate (the annual flu survival rate is a pretty similar 99.9%). The threat has been one massive hysteria driven exaggeration. Fearmongering and misrepresentation of statistics has led to a huge number of people in this country losing their minds and thinking we are facing the bubonic plague or similar. Time to get a grip and rebuild the country.
‘Fearmongering and misrepresentation of statistics has led to a huge number of people in this country losing their minds and thinking we are facing the bubonic plague or similar.’
Typical overdramatics from the sacrifice-the-vulnerable-for-the-good-of-the-GDP zealots. Nobody lost their minds, they just took sensible precautions in the face of a pandemic. Need to get a grip and build a more resilient and sustainable society.
“the sacrifice-the-vulnerable. ” Isn’t that what the government already did? 80% of deaths in nursing and care homes. Ill patients returned to nursing homes with strict instructions not to test for Covid. Great job there lads. Real sensible. Lock up the healthy portion of the population, and let rip through the vulnerable. I am suggesting we protect the elderly and allow the rest of society to get back to normal. That at least provides a path out of this. Your approach would see us locked up for the winter, with the devastating impact on Irish society that would entail.
Frontline medical staff and shop staff and pub staff and waiting staff are people too, you know.
“Frontline medical staff and shop staff and pub staff and waiting staff are people too, you know.” Yes, and any of them who are over 65 should be protected (witj additions for those under 65 with a clear vulnerability). The State could provide financial support to those who cannot work, which could be far better than what we currently have as we’d have a stronger economic base to provide from. My sister is a nurse so I am quite aware of the risks they are exposed to, and quite frankly horrified by the prospect of them being mandated to take the flu vaccine this year, when we know of the history of coronaviruses, vaccine interference and cytokine storms.
“shop staff and pub staff and waiting staff are people too” he says as he proposes a course of action that is killing their sectors of the economy. Will you be paying their mortgage when their businesses close for good?
Economies recover. Dead people don’t. But yeah, those people are the disposable heroes ground in the mill to keep the money flowing, for minimum wage, a lot of them. At least wear a mask, for God’s sake.
“Economies recover. Dead people don’t” Again displaying your absolute ignorance of the world you live in. Economies ARE peoples lives. By destroying livelihoods, you destroy lives, pushing hundreds of thousands into abject poverty and deprivation. Tell us, what do the studies tell us about poverty, deprivation and health? How do you think people might be affected by losing not only their livelihoods, but their communities and social interaction? Who do you think is going to pay to sustain Irish society when the State has bankrupted itself? What revenue will pay for our hospitals, our education system, our mental healthcare etc..? You clearly have no understanding of even basic economics. The course of action you are supporting will devastate this country but it won’t stop you coming on here in a couple of years time and moaning about the terrible hardship being sufffered by huge swathes of the Irish population.
People are more important than economies, thatr’s my rule, and when people are subservient to economies instead of the other way around, of course you force poorly paid workers back onto the frontline so they can get sick and/or die and/or suffer long term chronic conditions in the name of your economy. If we don’t have an economy felxible and resilient enough to withstand a pandemic we don’t have an economy felixible and resilient enough to withstand climate change, therefore the economy as we know it is a suicide pact.
I’ll give you one piece of advice Mary. BS is choc-a-bloc with professional armchair epidemiologists and quacks pouncing with their “considered opinion” and doling out “facts” and links to other quacks and “experts”. Make your own mind up and verify your own sources. You will not find any expertise whatsoever here.
You’re quite an expert then.
Well, I can spot a bar stool bore and blather merchant.
Finish your drink and leave, k?
Edgey fact checker MME cutting through the mist, setting everyone straight..
Such an expert. Oh sure, another day, another name.
This is terrible stuff from Mattie McGrath. Varadkar was bad enough. There has been way too much of this kind of stuff coming from Trump and his strange supporters. Now it’s taking off here. The comparisons with flu often still made were debunked months ago. In the US, with 200,000 dead already, COVID has already killed more than flu in the last FIVE years TOGETHER. It’s killed more US citizens than World War I, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, the Mexican American war, the 1812 War, the War of Independence, and 911 COMBINED.
Globally, with a million deaths, only the 1918, the 1968, and 1956-58 pandemics were worse, and COVID is on track to end up worse than 1956-58 and 1968. And that’s WITH massive lockdowns, continent-wide lockdowns, masks, social distancing etc. etc. Without them, there would be possibly millions more deaths already. Even Trump admits to a possible toll of 2 million in the US alone if the virus was let rip.
Here’s what the WHO says about flu and COVID; “While the range of symptoms for the two viruses is similar, the fraction with severe disease appears to be different. For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection, requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation. These fractions of severe and critical infection would be higher than what is observed for influenza infection.
Those most at risk for severe influenza infection are children, pregnant women, elderly, those with underlying chronic medical conditions and those who are immunosuppressed. For COVID-19, our current understanding is that older age and underlying conditions increase the risk for severe infection.”
I know there’s overlap, but there are 200,000 people in Ireland with diabetes. There about 700,000 people in Ireland over 65. There are 1.1 million obese, and there are over 1.5 million with high blood pressure. Are we supposed to lock them all up? How can we protect all these people when we, once again, can’t even keep the disease out of the nursing homes?
I don’t know whether we should be at Level 3 or 4 or 5. I do know we have to take the disease seriously. Why should people who don’t have the disease, and who are trying very hard to follow government guidelines in order not to get it, have to be locked up for a year or more in order to facilitate a normal life for those who have, or soon will have, got the disease, those who basically got us into this mess, yet again, by their careless approach?