87 thoughts on “Monday’s Papers

          1. SOQ

            Coronavirus: Face masks could increase risk of infection, medical chief warns

            Members of the public could be putting themselves more at risk from contracting coronavirus by wearing face masks, one of England’s most senior doctors has warned.

            Jenny Harries, deputy chief medical officer, said the masks could “actually trap the virus” and cause the person wearing it to breathe it in.

            https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-face-masks-increase-risk-infection-doctor-jenny-harries-a9396811.html

          2. Cian

            Dr Harries told BBC News: “What tends to happen is people will have one mask. They won’t wear it all the time, they will take it off when they get home, they will put it down on a surface they haven’t cleaned.

            “Or they will be out and they haven’t washed their hands, they will have a cup of coffee somewhere, they half hook it off, they wipe something over it.

            “In fact, you can actually trap the virus in the mask and start breathing it in.”

            Asked if people are putting themselves more at risk by wearing masks, Dr Harries added: “Because of these behavioural issues, people can adversely put themselves at more risk than less.”

          3. paul

            yeah, they protect other people, not the wearer. That’s the idea. If everyone who could wear one, did so (and kept our distance), we would all be protecting each other. It’s not hard to understand really.

          4. Micko

            “Face masks could increase risk of infection”

            Well I suppose that could explain the MASSIVE rise we’ve seen in cases over the last while? Over 1000 cases the other day! A thousand cases!

            I mean we’re back at April level of infection numbers- right?

            How?

            Is it the very small number of people not wearing masks? Mask adoptions must be in the high 90%.

            How could this be happening?

            Could it be that we have no control over it and that it’s just following a natural cycle and that the lockdowns did nothing? Are we just fooling ourselves?

          5. sidhe

            you are inferring a lot on a basis of absolutely nothing

            you DON’T know

            maybe leave it to someone who actually does know, rather than making wild guesstimates based on something you read and only have a passing understanding of

          6. Junkface

            Its more likely that the massive increases in cases come from people sharing indoor spaces without masks or ventilation, or social distancing.

          7. Micko

            Quite possibly @Junkface

            So if we’ve opened up a little bit of society and this is the disaterous result – then what’s the solution?

            Keep everything closed and crushed down to levels that no business flourishes, people can’t see each other, destroying people’s mental health, the economy, people losing their homes, suicide, domestic violence etc?

            The only solution that pro lockdowners propose is more lockdowns and wait for the vaccine. That’s 5 years probably.

            My kid will be 11 by then… 11. That’ll be almost half her life in a lockdown situation.

            No effin way.

          8. Junkface

            The solution to businesses relying on customers sitting inside together is better fresh air ventilation and air conditioning, maybe buying air filtration systems? Keeping customers further apart, only taking off the masks at your table. Limiting late opening hours so people don’t get drunk at forget all of the rules.

            Nobody wants a full lockdown like before, for the good of everyone’s jobs and mental health. We need clear rules for prevention of spreading, and media campaigns telling people how to behave responsibly when sharing indoor spaces. Businesses should get grants from the Gov’t to use outdoor spaces with heaters, Gazebos, whatever it takes. Get smart, run experiments.

          9. Micko

            @sidhe

            a) I studied Science in college Yes, I did it in the mid 90’s, but I still think that makes me somewhat qualified to discuss the topics at hand.

            b) I prefer to think for myself rather than leaving others to form conclusions for me

            Best,

          10. Kingfisher

            Sorry, Micko and Formerly – for some reason on a tablet it wasn’t paywalled and on a computer it is. Or maybe it wasn’t paywalled when I looked at it, and then the portcullis clanged down as I walked the dog.
            Basically, it’s a piece by a covidenier, or formerly so; he thought all the fuss was a lot of phooey. So he pressured his spouse and both sets of parents into coming for the weekend; someone infected everyone, with horrifying results. His favourite person in the world, his funny, feisty father-in-law, died; he himself was recovering well from what he thought was a fairly hasty cold when he suddenly couldn’t breathe – in the hospital they saved him just in time from a probable fatal stroke – and the infection spread outwards through the two families, friends and contacts. He wrote it better than I could.
            Sorry I couldn’t give you a few quotes; went off out and when I came back suddenly there were a rake of posts on what had been a haunted empty desert, and then I couldn’t get back into the piece.

    1. Eoin

      Hmmm. Coronavirus denier? Sounds like holocaust denier….burn the witch! Nobody denies the existence of flus and colds. Typical misleading headline from the Washington Compost. Should read ‘covid denier’. And ‘anti masker’s as you call them is another dodgy term. They’re really anti lockdown and anti mandatory vaccination. And they are now in line with the science, the experts and the WHO.

      Reply
    2. Charger Salmons

      The funny thing is almost everyone I know thinks the lockdown went too far.
      They’re convinced that all the facts are on their side about masks and the spread of Covid-19.
      Yet every opinion poll shows that they are the minority.
      This is how Remainers must have felt in Brexit Britain.

      Reply
      1. Brother Barnabas

        from the merits of masks to brexit in 3 easy sentences…

        tell us, charger, does anything- past or present – arouse you quite like brexit does?

        Reply
        1. Charger Salmons

          Actually I’ll be honest Brother I’m up to 90 this morning after an early start and too much coffee.
          I’ve already popped into a local bakery and told a socially-distanced joke about cream horns that left the girls shrieking like penguins and caused a passing plumber to tearfully soil himself.
          I simply cannot find the ‘off’ switch on this fine October Monday.
          Have a great day.

          Reply
  1. GiggidyGoo

    Woman from inner city told to take public transport to Swords – her nearest test centre?. What happened to the one on the quays, and the one in Croke Park?
    Search for Covid test centres Dublin. You’ll find a list of NCT centers, a list of Driving Test centers comes up in the results, but not Covid.
    If Croker and the quays are not open, where is all of the testing being done?

    Reply
    1. Micko

      It’s at the back of Swords now, on Stockholm lane. And it’s closed on Sundays

      So don’t feel sick on a Saturday Giggidy ;-)

      Reply
      1. GiggidyGoo

        Aye – not recommended alright.

        But where are all of these tests taking place if Croker and the Quays are closed?

        Reply
    1. SOQ

      Why must previous test results be added to the daily total- can they not just be added to the relevant time frame? And it is the same with fatalities- Holohan knows this and still tries to ramp up the fear.

      We actually have this very strange situation where medics- the people we have always put our trust in to ‘do no harm’- seem intent on doing as much as possible.

      There is a word for that- malfeasance.

      Reply
      1. Cian

        Oh yes, adding the 50-odd from Friday onto the almost 1000 from Saturday is really scary.

        If they did what you suggested and slipped older test into previous days people would complain (rightly) that they were trying to hide things.

        The HPSC are honest and consistent with their reporting: They say how many reported today, how many to date (which doesn’t count denotificed cases), how many are denotified.
        e.g.

        The latest news as of 6.30pm on Saturday 10 October

        3 deaths and 1,012 cases confirmed:

        – the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC) has been informed of 3 additional deaths among people with COVID-19 in Ireland
        – there have been 1,824 COVID-19 related deaths in Ireland
        – 1,012 additional cases of COVID-19 have been confirmed
        – there have now been 41,714 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Ireland
        – validation of data at the HPSC has resulted in the denotification of 1 confirmed case. The figure of 41,714 confirmed cases reflects this

        Reply
      2. SOQ

        If memory serves me there was a day where the fatalities was bumped by 8 from the previous month- I mean seriously? In the case of PCR tests- how hard is it to enter date of test rather than date of test result reported? It is only one extra column in a spreadsheet.

        This is basic record keeping that companies all over the country practice.

        Date tested is the most important date of all as live infections can then be calculated over the max 14 day window. Apart from the sizeable number of false positives being returned, overall positive count means absolutely nothing as near all over 14 days have now cleared it.

        As for hiding things- if it is clearly stated that these are old infections then nobody can be accused of anything- accurate reporting is way more important.

        Reply
        1. Cian

          You’re talking poo;

          You say “overall positive count means absolutely nothing” but it does.

          As I’ve been saying for the last 5 weeks.
          – The number of positive tests have been rising.
          – this is followed by a rise in the number of covid hospitalizations
          – this is followed by a rise in the COVID ICU cases
          – this is followed by deaths

          A month ago there were around 200 cases/day, today it’s 800
          A month ago there were 52 hospital cases, today 221.
          A month ago there were 9 ICU cases, last night 30

          it’s almost like when the cases increase by 400% that there is a knock-on and the hospitalisations increases by 400% and ICU by (almost) 400%.

          Who would have thought it? (maybe everyone except you)

          Reply
          1. SOQ

            The overall ‘Case’ count currently sitting at 42,528 means absolutely nothing. All it says is that 42,528 were at some point infected- but most are no longer.

            So what is the point of it? This is not a life long viral infection- this is not HIV. Throwing out meaningless stats like this that has only one purpose- to scare people.

          2. Cian

            It is data.
            HPSC are just being consistant and telling us the same information in the same format. This is best practice.

            I haven’t heard any media pushing the 42,528, because, as you say, it is meaningless. But that doesn’t mean HPSC should stop publishing it.

          3. SOQ

            Best practice is to work from the date of testing column- that is the only accurate way you can calculate how many people are potentially infectious at any given time.

            It is the core data upon which you base any public health policy and especially- a track and trace.

          4. Nigel

            It’s a cumulative count, and is perfectly well understood as such, and you don’t like it because you have staked out an extreme position of downplaying the virus and anything that to your mind threatens that position must be meaningless and only there to make you look bad.

          5. Charger Salmons

            Pal of mine calls from Blighty.
            Woke up this morning feeling bad,booked a test at a nearby testing centre and was seen within two hours.Will have the results tonight or tomorrow morning.
            There is now a stockpile for four months of medical grade PPE as well as the trialled and tested therapeutic Dexamethasone which reduces ventilated patient deaths by up to one third,
            I know it’s taken a while for the NHS to get up to speed on this but that seems pretty impressive to me.

  2. Charger Salmons

    ‘ Eight women and 3 children died when their boat sank off Tunisia on Sunday, as they tried to cross the Mediterranean to the Italian island of Lampedusa, a Tunisian security official said. ‘
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/africa/at-least-8-women-and-3-children-die-as-migrant-boat-sinks-off-tunisia-1.4378137

    Sadly,this is what happens when you don’t put sufficient deterrents in place to discourage illegal immigrants trying to jump the queue ahead of those going through the legal processes.
    Australia nipped their problem in the bud years ago whilst European politicians dithered.
    If you encorage all and sundry with open arms and allow charities to aid and abet criminality then you must expect collateral damage along the way.
    RIP, etc.

    Reply
    1. Janet, dreams of big guns

      so you’re all for the proposal of the British to put nets out to trap/ drown these people like unwanted fish I saw on the BBC news page yesterday ? The comments on there were shameful, a disgusting insight to the no johnny foreigners , oh no everyone followed us home racist mindset of rather a lot of your fellow english” man”.

      Reply
      1. Charger Salmons

        Well if it prevented people-smugglers earning a fortune by preying on these poor people and enabling them to attempt the perilous journey then yes I would.
        Of course they wouldn’t be necessary if France carried out their legal obligations in the first place.
        The UK and Ireland are fortunate to have an expanse of water as a natural barrier for these illegal immigrants to overcome – countries across Europe with land borders are paying a heavy social,economic and criminal price for their failure to deal with unchecked migration of Third World problems.
        But hey, congratulations on you being the first in with a shout of racism.
        Inevitably.

        Reply
        1. Janet, dreams of big guns

          one word… Brexit
          I was referring to the reactions on the BBC article as racist,
          what would you call drowning people?

          Reply
          1. Charger Salmons

            I don’t know.
            I didn’t see the original BBC article or read any below-the-line comments so how would I know if they’re racist or not.
            As a matter of sound practice I never read those sort of comments anyway.
            BS is more than enough to put up with …

          2. Charger Salmons

            I expect nothing but biased and left-wing reporting from the BBC and I’m rarely disappointed.
            It’s like a mini-me version of CNN but with uglier correspondents

          3. The Rock

            Brexit is not the problem
            Covid 19 will ensure there will be very little of the economy left intact

            One thing that is not being discussed is the healthiness of our internet and mobile phone infrastructure

            Just think an infrastructure not built to handle the volume of millions of people on line at once playing games communicating etc etc

        2. scottser

          and yet Merkel’s gamble of taking in a couple of million syrian refugees has worked out fine; 70% are in work or training.
          but in fairness to charger, the british government simply reflects the inherently racist character of the majority of british people, they got they voted for.

          Reply
          1. Charger Salmons

            A ‘ couple of million ‘ Syrian refugees in Germany ?
            70% in work or training ?
            You seem very certain of this.
            Obviously you’ll have no trouble providing us with a source for these claims.
            Take your time …

          2. Charger Salmons

            And lo, a mighty wind blew down through Tumbleweed Junction and there was not a soul to be seen on the streets …

          3. The Rock

            Just wait untill we have to take our fair share of these poor souls
            And under our membership will must play our part

          4. Charger Salmons

            So no ” couple of million ” Syrian refugees arrived in Germany and 70% of those haven’t got permanent work.
            Other than that you’re a spoofer.

      2. Eoin

        Just make sure to tell everyone trying to come in illegally LOUD AND CLEAR that they will be sent home. That’s the only way to stop people taking the dangerous chance on crossing.

        Reply
        1. Charger Salmons

          Yup, internment camps rather than four star hotels for those who arrive illegally – why should they be treated better than those people going down the lawful route of entry ?
          And heavy prison sentences for the people smugglers.
          Both these measures killed the Australian boat people problem dead in the water.

          Reply
          1. Brother Barnabas

            “killed the problem dead in the water”

            coming from most, that could be dismissed as a clumsy, clueless turn of phrase in the circumstances

            but you meant it, didnt you?

    1. Micko

      So what’s the answer Cian?

      Lockdown hokey cokey? In out in out etc

      Coz if the weekend is anything to go by, what we’re doing isn’t working.

      #SureIt’sJustTheFluButIDontHaveAClueWhatToDo

      Reply
    2. GiggidyGoo

      As I said before, full disclosure needs to be made as to:

      – Hospital Name
      – Numbers admitted with covid
      – Numbers put in ICU with covid
      – Numbers that died where there there were no underlying ilnesses
      – Name of person who has supplied the figures.

      Additionally, as regards NPHET:

      – Who makes the proposals about levels?
      – Are they voted upon by ALL members?
      – How long do the ‘Zoom’ or equivalent meetings last for?
      – How do 60-odd people get to make their views known during the meeting?
      ++

      Holohan and Co. cannot be trusted with figures.

      Reply
      1. Cian

        If you don’t believe the figures that are reported today, why would you start believing them if they added additional details?

        Reply
        1. GiggidyGoo

          a) Is that the only question you have?. I’ll answer it, but maybe you’d address the other points?
          The answer to your question is that I’d trust figures submitted by a named person who is responsible for running a hospital and who hasn’t got skin in the game like Holohan.

          So, the other points then?

          Reply
          1. Cian

            I suspect that you have never been in a large meeting nor understand how these things work. Usually:

            1. there is a chair that manages the meeting;
            2. there is an agenda, (usually the first thing is to agree last meeting’s minutes are accurate, the last item is a catch-all “Any other business” where anything can be raised) the chair moves from topic to topic, keeps an eye on the time, and will rein things in if they are getting out of hand (but if there is a pressing issue – may spawn that off as a separate sub-group).
            3. Each topic will generally ‘belong’ to a member – who will present it… often their slides/figures will have been circulated prior to the meeting so won’t be a surprise and people can digest the info prior to the meeting. Some of these are information only; some will discuss a topic and present one (or more) options.There may be questions (and if they don’t know the answer, they may be given an action to get the answer for the group).
            Then on to the next topic.
            4. It isn’t a democracy – there isn’t a vote on everything. In fact they most likely rely on consensus
            5. It is unlikely that all 40 of them would have an input/opinion on all topics. They are all specialists in their own areas and not each others. for example the Medical Assessor of the Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA – the crowd that license medicines – for example any cures for Covid or vaccines that appears) probably doesn’t get involved in anything outside their remit.

            And remember, these are all people like you or me. They have family, children and friends. The lockdowns and decisions made affect them exactly the same (except their own jobs are safe).

          2. GiggidyGoo

            You suspect incorrectly. The ones I attend are in the private sector of course, and look to be run a bit differently than what you are used to.

            Now before I answer you, how about dealing with this part?
            – Hospital Name
            – Numbers admitted with covid
            – Numbers put in ICU with covid
            – Numbers that died where there there were no underlying ilnesses
            – Name of person who has supplied the figures.
            =====================================================

            Now, your own Epistle:

            – There is a Chairperson who manages the meeting.
            – There is an agenda
            The last agenda was as follows: (27th August, by the way)

            No. Item
            1 Welcome and Introductions
            a) Conflict of Interest
            b) Minutes of previous meeting(s)
            c) Matters Arising
            2 Epidemiological Assessment
            a) Evaluation of Epidemiological data: (incorporating National Data Update, Modelling
            Report and International Update)
            3 Review of Existing Policy
            a) Sampling, Testing, Contact Tracing and CRM reporting
            b) Criteria for closing and reopening schools
            c) Monitoring of COVID-19, Influenza and RSV by the sentinel GP network
            4 Expert Advisory Group
            a) EAG advice RE: Occupational guidance health care workers who have children who test
            positive for COVID-19 or are close contacts of a confirmed case
            b) EAG advice RE: WHO recommendations on masks/face coverings
            5 Future Policy
            a) Review of remaining “Phase 4” Public health measures
            b) Paper on sero-surveillance
            6 Communication update
            a) Communications update
            7 Subgroups updates Subgroups minutes are months in arrears of this meeting
            a) Legislation subgroup
            b) Vulnerable persons subgroup (Note – this subgroup’s last minutes were 24th June)
            8 Meeting Close
            a) Agreed Actions – No details of the actions
            b) AOB
            c) Date of next meeting
            ================================================

            2. Well, there are subgroups as you know. Subgroups that are months behind in their own minutes. Yes in the meeting that the minutes above refer to, there are two sub-groups mentioned that are months behind in their own minutes. That leads me to believe that these subgroups aren’t meeting regularly.

            3. If someone in meetings is responsible for an input and (as you say) giving a slide show for instance, then the subject matter of that is put into the minutes, and any discussions about it are also minuted. Doesn’t happen in the meetings you attend obviously.

            4. In order for a consensus on anything to be reached, then something has to be proposed by someone. Any meetings I attend, someone proposes something, and that is minuted – the department he represents is identified. Nowhere in these Nphet minutes is there a reference to actual proposals put forward. Therefore how can consensus be reached without detail?. If you’re saying that detail is supplied in advance, then that should also be referenced in the minutes.

            5. See ‘4’ above. How can consensus be reached if you’re saying people wouldn’t have an opinion on all topics?

            There are more than 40 persons at these meetings. Up to 60+.

            What seems clear is that a very small number of people (1 or 2 or 3) are making decisions hiding under the cloak of ‘it was decided by Nphet’

            By the way – how could Holohan make any judgements upon his return, without the minutes of all (including the most recent) meetings?

            Your last sentence isn’t relevant to what I wrote:

            “As I said before, full disclosure needs to be made as to:
            – Hospital Name
            – Numbers admitted with covid
            – Numbers put in ICU with covid
            – Numbers that died where there there were no underlying ilnesses
            – Name of person who has supplied the figures.

            Additionally, as regards NPHET:

            – Who makes the proposals about levels?
            – Are they voted upon by ALL members?
            – How long do the ‘Zoom’ or equivalent meetings last for?
            – How do 60-odd people get to make their views known during the meeting?
            ++
            Holohan and Co. cannot be trusted with figures.”

  3. bejasus

    note the side where the trouble is coming from has an LGBTTMJJKKSDHPHIHOUOODJODNNAIHYOUJLL[[9.90LOLOLHHDDH flag flying and a lass (sorry if I mis-gendered this individual) with a Palestinian
    flag on her bag. Certainly not “far right” but ultra violent extremist left terrorists.

    Reply
  4. Dr.Fart

    we are in the hands of greedy idiots, while surrounded by selfish idiots. the real face of the irish people is on full show.

    Reply
    1. Micko

      Come on Doc

      Do you really think the massive rise in cases is down to the small proportion of “selfish idiots” not adhering to the rules?

      We’re at April levels of infection now – when we were all locked down much more strickly.

      So we could go to level 5 now and stay there indefinitely or we could try something new.

      Reply
      1. Charger Salmons

        Surely the key question is are we at April levels of deaths ?
        If large numbers of young people are contracting Covid-19 but experiencing few if any ill-effects shouldn’t we be concentrating efforts on protecting the sick,elderly and vulnerable rather than pushing for another total lockdown.
        Particularly if the original total lockdown which went on longer than anywhere else in Europe failed to eradicate the virus.
        I dunno.I’m genuinely split on the whole second wave thing but I just don’t see the point in trying to repeat what so obviously failed before.

        Reply
        1. SOQ

          We are no where near April’s levels of hospitalisations nor fatalities- a fact conveniently ignored.

          Assuming PCR tests are somewhat accurate, the only thing these positive results prove is that a lot more people were infected than previously thought, which is a good thing because it means the fatality % rate will keep going down.

          Reply
          1. Cian

            It isn’t conveniently ignored. Nobody is suggesting we are back in April.

            We are at a stage where the cases, hospitalisations, ICU, and deaths are rising. If we do nothing there is no reason to think that will stop riseing. We’re not at “April” yet – we’re back in “March” – when the whole thing was kicking off.

            If we did things differently in March then April may have been better.

            Today, hospital cases is the same as 23rd March (although it isn’t climbing anywhere near as fast).

          2. SOQ

            Hospitalisations, ICU, and deaths are rising- from what? ALL respiratory illnesses rise at this time of year and we have no idea how many are solely due to CoVid-19- but I’d be pretty sure they are a small percentage.

            You cannot view a single virus in the abstract and then claim everyone ‘with’ is ‘from’- which is what is likely happening.

            It is not rising like March because it is not like March. Spain is estimated to be six weeks ahead and it is not happening there- so why would it happen here?

          3. Nigel

            Oh, sure, it’s just all existing respiratory diseases, plus this brand new one! When you put it like that I can see why people are idiots to be worried about how it’s going to work out!

          4. SOQ

            Correct- it is all existing respiratory diseases, plus a new one- because the old ones like flu and pneumonia did not just disappear.

            In some cases CoVid-19 may sadly be the straw that breaks the camels back but as there has been no discernible increase in overall fatalities to date- it is highly likely that most have two or more conditions.

          5. Nigel

            Health professionals might find the prospect of a new and highly infectious respiratory disease circulating in hospitals full of people with other existing respiratory diseases and a host of other underlying conditions more alarming than you do. When you talk about it being a straw, you are talking about the difference between life and death for vulnerable people.

          6. SOQ

            But that happens anyways Nigel- people have one disease and then unfortunately catch another- that is how it has always been?

            The only reason you are so focused on CoVid-19 is because you been told it is so important but as the average of death is 84- why should the entire country be shut down? And at what price?

            There is a second wave coming alright- cancers and suicides and God knows what else. Public Health is not about the focus on one disease to the exclusion of all others- that is at best, negligence.

          7. Nigel

            The country is going to have to be shut down if it gets bad – that’s a fact. I don’t want it to get that bad and I hope it won’t, but dismissing it and downplaying it isn’t actually all that helpful in reaching a realistic assessment of the risk it poses. The idea that health care professionals have forgotten that other diseases exist is remarkably insulting but also a stupid argument when they’re so focused on how much worse covid will make things for them and their patients.

          8. Cian

            Hospitalisations, ICU, and deaths are rising- from what? ALL respiratory illnesses rise at this time of year and we have no idea how many are solely due to CoVid-19- but I’d be pretty sure they are a small percentage.

            Hmm.. Yes, but actually no. remember that the flu is seasonal, and the season hasn’t started yet. They are testing for flu… but so far – zero.

            Last week, of 112 specimens tested, all were negative for influenza and RSV.

            In fact during the summer period (weeks 21-39 2020), 2327 non-sentinel specimens were tested for influenza by the NVRL and only 2 (<0.1%) were positive: one influenza A(H1N1)pdm09 during week 26 2020 and one influenza B during week 29 2020.

            https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/surveillance/influenzasurveillancereports/20202021season/

            Maybe, just maybe – most of these new cases in hospital are in fact due to Covid?

          9. SOQ

            @ Nigel- I am not dismissing or downplaying anything- I am however pointing out that a lot of other people are suffering too and that those combined deaths are likely to be way higher than anything to do with CoVid-19.

            And as for other health professionals- oncologists in particular are warning of an up and coming crisis in cancer treatments. So despite your attempts to slant me as attacking all health care professionals, it is quite the opposite.

            Further more- if you read the interviews with some of the epidemiologists:and virologists who have signed The Great Barrington Declaration- you will see that there is far is from consensus on lockdowns- even within those specific fields.

            @ Cian- Flu may be seasonal but that does not mean people cannot contract it outside of. If it is that case that all those in hospital are exclusively CoVid-19 without comorbidities, then they should have no problem stating such.

          10. Cian

            @SOQ
            Flu may be seasonal but that does not mean people cannot contract it outside of.
            True, but as I linked above, there has been no trace of flu last week, and only 2 cases all summer.

            If it is that case that all those in hospital are exclusively CoVid-19 without comorbidities, then they should have no problem stating such.
            We both know that the likelihood is that most of the 32 people in ICU have comorbidities. But that isn’t relevant – the real question is if they would be in ICU if they didn’t have Covid. Either way it doesn’t change the problem – the numbers in ICU keep rising: even if a set percentage of the Covid-ICU number shouldn’t be counted, the number that should be counted keeps going up.

      2. Dr.Fart

        it’s not a small proportion though. walk anywhere in dublin city for even just two or three minutes and you’ll see one or two people … completely obeying guidelines. everyone else is living in february.
        i get your point that we can’t keep locking down, and then just ending up back where we are over and over, and that we should try somethng new. this starts with government, and they are lazy and stupid and thusly incapable of creating solutions. What’s happening now will continue until there’s a vaccine or a cure. Until the next pandemic..

        Reply
        1. Micko

          But everyone thinks they are following the rules Doc

          “But, I wear my mask” – on the chin for under the nose and touching it constantly.

          “I social distance” – except for your family, and cousins, and trips to the holiday home in Wexford.

          It’s a farce

          A poll on RTE a few weeks back showed that 81% of people said they had “not broken ANY rules and strictly stuck to the recommendations. 81%!!!

          81% of people are delusional or bloody liars more like!

          What we’re asking people to do is impossible, it’s against human nature – it cannot be sustained.

          We cannot contain this virus. Now, do we rip the band-aid off quickly or slowly over a number of years?

          Reply
          1. Dr.Fart

            i think it’s a part of the weak irish psyche. always just good for having a decent crack of the whip, but never really being consistant and will invariably give up. The UK and the US are from imperial background and have for centuries being convinced they are better than everyone else.. but a stiff upper lip does fupp all against a virus and the evidence of that is showing. they are not above it. countries with populations of more solid, rounded psyches do well. Eg. New Zealand. We will never have the stones to stick with anything different for too long. Nothing can help now except good governance, and we haven’t had that since the Brits left.

    1. Junkface

      Yes. It seems we could argue forever about this. I think we should instead put our energy and thought into different solutions. We should be testing out different approaches to living with it until there is a vaccine.

      Reply
  5. :-Joe

    More covid madness with a dash of pompous ignorance(and with some casual racism thrown in this time) as usual…

    F_lawless(apart from recommending alphbet’s gurgle or microserf’s bong to search with instead of duckduckgo) is probably the only regular commenter on here who is on the right track with previous posts..

    The system is heading towards a reset, a redirection and reshaping of the economy to compete with China’s extremist authoritarian system of power and control…

    Arguing over lockdown’s on and off, level five / three or future herd immunity or whatever else etc etc are nothing more than a colossal distraction from what is really going on and you lot as a majority are completely hoodwinked and taken in by it. You’re wasting your time splitting hairs at every opportunity.

    All you’re doing is keeping on message, on brand and following the drip-fed narrative by middle managers posing as politicians on a need to know basis, bungling their way through it all with reactonary off-the-cuff decision making while the hypocracy, lies and propaganda spreads freely unchecked in parallel throughout the consciousness.

    “Circuit Break” is the latest shared terminology being used…

    Is it not obvious to you that ours and other nations, non so-called governments have failed to protect the vunerable from the start already and while it’s probably impossible for them to have done very much anyway if they actually were motivatid to care and act accordingly in the first place.. The virus and more than likely our future involves other completely new strains that will also come and go in waves until either a level of immunity is reached naturally or a vaccine is created to accelerate a workable solution or level of immunity.

    If you’re in an at risk group based on health, age, pre-existing health conditions then you need to focus your diet, take vitamins and supplements to boost your immune system as much as possible and find a way to get some regular basic level of cardio-vascular excercise to strengthen yourself.

    Turning off the media, especially deleting anti-social toxic media and including reading or spewing out these covid comments here every day might be the best solution to having better mental health too.

    Anyone got a positive or interesting story unrelated to covid madness to talk about here in the papers thread?…

    Also, derek “F-f/g’s failed spin machine” mooney is completely wrong about your favourite Irish, catholic, JFK, Camelot representatrive in the presidential race.

    The other half of the duopoly for the 1%, the other incompetant, ignorant, creepy, rapey, corrupt eejit that is biden has no chance of winning.

    Another illiusion to keep your minds busy, deluded and distracted while the big boys get down to the real and serious business of shaping your future.

    The amount of nonsense, lies, hypocrasy, spin, propaganda coming out in support of biden by Irish media in the last week alone is almost hilarious if it weren’t so disgustingly ignorant and potentially damaging to witness.

    More propaganda to keep the serfs and plebs in line for the next candidate. Just look at his record.. Zero success as a politician, failed at every stage and don’t get me started on his overt racism and racist policies or the fact that he is currently ignoring rape and abuse allegations by victims who worked for him before and are trying to stop him. See Democracy Now on pootube, just search biden victim speaks out.

    The amorphous blob of orange toxic shyte, drumpf.. Wins easily with 362 electoral college votes and a +10 or -10 range of error..
    – If you fancy a bet on it that’s the best one I know of since March and hasn’t changed.

    :-J

    Reply

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