Dublin city centre last Saturday
Level 6, anyone?
Via the Irish Times:
CSO surveys showed that 71 per cent of people believe Level 5 was appropriate, while 10 per cent say it didn’t go far enough.
As of November 30th, department data suggests that 61 per cent of people approved of the Government reaction to the pandemic, while a further 23 per cent believed it didn’t go far enough.
On social distancing measures, 78 per cent of people believed they were about right, while 14 per cent thought they were too weak. There’s good evidence of social cohesion, as 61 per cent of people believe everybody or almost everybody was following guidelines.
Furthermore, there are strong indications that the public was willing to go further. Some 75 per cent of people thought Ireland was trying to return to normal either “a bit too quickly or “much too quickly”.
Seems legit.
Silent majority supports goal of zero Covid (Tomás Ryan Irish Times)
Meanwhile…
The rank insanity in Ireland continues – increasingly unbelievable stuff: https://t.co/7KSXqS75Cg
— Ivor Cummins (@FatEmperor) December 7, 2020
Fight!
Anyone actually know anyone who’s ever been surveyed with regards to covid regulations? I sure don’t.
Yes, but on a small scale of 1009 adults surveyed regarding outdoor exercise following the March/April 2020 lockdown. We can share that if you wish.
There are other surveys being conducted right now.
Remember Charger’s Law Number 2.
Twitter is not real life.
So we should listen to Charger’s laws and not twitter?
Are these the same laws that led to the prediction of a Trump win and Blighty sticking it to the EU and Boris knowing what he is doing?
I would take Sharia Law over Charger’s Law.
Sounds like you’ve been ignoring Charger’s Law and spending too much time on Twitter.
Trust me old sport no-one is the slightest bit interested in a photograph of what you had for breakfast despite what you might think.
Lies in Fake News.
Nothing new.
Fake when it doesn’t suit your worldview?
It is not so bad being in the minority, gives you something to talk about at parties – oh wait there are 2 problems: 1). the covid restrictions, supported by the majority, don’t allow parties and 2). you may not get invited regardless.
Lies.
Fake News.
Nothing New.
Haroo .
Oh well that settles it then.
“as 61 per cent of people believe everybody or almost everybody was following guidelines”
I very much doubt that. Even the hardcore pro-Covid heads I know, ALL broke the rules in some way.
People are very interested in enforcing the rules on others – not so much on themselves.
Also, when are we going to learn that survey and polls aren’t accurate when the issue is divisive or has a social stigmatism associated with it. People won’t tell how they really feel if they think they will be judged by the person asking them. Just ask Hilary Clinton ;)
Is somebody going to explain to this Tomas Ryan guy about the open border with another jurisdiction that we have on this island. This “zero covid” strategy he repeatedly puts forward is an impossibility!!!!!!!
Did they mean for themselves or for everyone else?
Never ever underestimate the stupidity of the Irish people is a quote that keeps popping back into my head. History repeats & we forget. As we all look left I wonder how the banking T2 is going. Are we way past the 2008 levels of being bust. Over on Politics.ie I noted this from the admins : you CANNOT debate the science of COVID-19: science is about evidence, not opinion The silencing of debate is VERY bad. Our silence as a people has only given us defeat at every turn. Do you remember when FAT made you FAT or that the 5 a day was necessary. Turns out to be all B/S. Your sick today because a test sez you are even if you have no symptoms. This will all come to pass & we will shrug as we always do. I’m going to offer that as we all get older we will see a lot more diseases due to the fact we are so unhealthy you might say poisoned, but poisoned by our own. Do explore this idea. By all means flame back it only makes you look silly in my eyes. Many thanks to those who give valuable contributions here both pro & contra. I do enjoy them as well as the clever sneers
Something is entirely wrong with public health advice or indeed Emergency Public Heath Advice if it has to be first paraded in the court of public opinion for acceptance before consumption and or post consumption.
If our advice isn’t coming from copper-fastened expert knowledge then the whole thing is a tissue of lies.
Yes, who needs public buy in, support and cooperation for a strategy requiring social cohesion and adherence to rules and guidelines on a mass scale?
Don’t they know individuals doing whatever they want will suppress this virus and help prevent strain on our health service capacity.
An individuals right to cough and sneeze openly with no barrier is more important than the right of a vulnerable or elderly person to go out and do shopping.
“ An individuals right to cough and sneeze openly with no barrier”
Do you think people should keep up the wearing of masks forever?
I’m seeing a lot of people proposing that lately.
Straw man Mick.
Never once proposed that and that is nowhere near my argument.
You just want people to do what you tell them to forever.
@Haroo
Wasn’t an argument, straw man or otherwise.
It was a question followed by a statement.
As the numbers from the WHO are showing us, Covid is about twice as deadly to certain members of society (elderly people mostly – as you mentioned).
So, would you agree with the continued wearing of masks? To prevent against all diseases that are transmitted via “coughs or sneezes.”
Again, you brought up the fact that we should not have the right to cough and sneeze when we want.
I’m just taking your point to the next logical conclusion.
The common cold can even kill. Surely if we’re going down this road to protect everyone – masking should be universal and mandatory forever.
Do the lives of those who die from the flu and common cold not matter?
Just looking for some consistency.
@Micko
evidence for “Covid is twice as deadly to certain members of society”
Dr Kerkhove (WHO) said:
Re: infection fatality ratio. In addition to this there are a number of statistical groups, mathematical modelling groups that are looking at the infection fatality ratio which is the number of deaths divided by the number of estimated infections.
There are several papers that have come out that are looking at this. Several of these analyses have used published or pre-print seroepidemiologic results and they all converge around a point estimate of around 0.6%.
That may not sound like a lot but that is a lot higher than influenza and the infection fatality ratio increases dramatically with age so we can provide you with these papers, these papers are published but there is a big increase in the infection fatality ratio by age but overall these converge around 0.6%.
Seasonal flu has an infection fatality rate ‘much lower’ than 0.1%.
https://www.who.int/publications/m/item/covid-19-virtual-press-conference-transcript—12-october-2020 [00:24:18]
Mathematical modelling groups = https://www.instagram.com/naomi/
@Cian Regardless of what the IFR. Flu and the common cold kill people.
Should we permanently wear masks to protect the vulnerable or do we sacrifice them?
@Micko
Regardless of whataboutery.
Should we permanently wear seat belts in cars to protect the vulnerable or do we sacrifice them?
@cian
I’ll take that as a yes so. Good for you.
Enjoy your mask forever pal. I’m still going “commando” ha ha!
You don’t have an argument Haroo.
“a strategy requiring social cohesion and adherence to rules and guidelines on a mass scale” – strategised in the court of public opinion rather than knowledge.
Don’t you see a problem there GovBot ?
The rest of your reply is garbage.
At this stage I am pretty certain that if government made an announcement that CoVid only transmits above 1M- that without question you would see some people crawling up and down the street on their hands and knees.
To my mind those in our society that demonstrate to be the most venal are promoted on that basis. This may in some way explain why we have so much system failures at all the pillars of our society – Policing, religion, economic, banking, politics, governance etc. I would also add a good dollop of stupidity to the mix. Put on the jersey and scream you heads off up in the stands. Think your winning & on the pitch – no your not you just got scalped at the gate. Funny old world this. I was once of the herd, happy I’m out now looking on in WTF mode. Just trying to figure out how to dodge the hysteria through the cracks.
At this stage I am pretty certain that if Ivor Cummins posted a YouTube video that if you licked door knobs you wouldn’t be able to get SARS-COVID-2 that without question you would be wrapped around the nearest door..
Is that the best you can do?
Tut tut- standards really are slipping.
Haha. You started with the straw-man argument … :-P
The angry heads are growing Cian- big time.
When or where has Micheál Martin or Leo Varadkar ever ran a small or medium sized business?
#Strawman
What is the relevance? Are you suggesting that Trump is the president ever because he ran a business?
CSO could have just surveyed their own workforce
most of them are probably working from home now anyway
and couldn’t give ah
they all get full pay + increments
no matter what happens
I personally wouldn’t trust any Quango or Semi State issuing findings from their own unsubscribed surveys
like, was this survey conducted independently and its results vetted by licenced auditors?
And that us the new divide now isn’t it?
Those who’s income stream has been uninterrupted- enhanced even- and those facing ruin. Are teachers really at more risk than supermarket workers- or just more self important?
You are very quick to blacken the professionalism of 200,000 civil and pubic servants. And you would be the first to tell us not to judge,say, all credit unions based on the sins of a few.
If you wanted to you could find out the details of the survey:
They choose 5,105 people.from the Labour Force Survey (LFS) respondents, 1,585 responded. They are aware of some limitation of the group used and have included a weighting to try to offset the bias. All details available in
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-sic19wbl5/socialimpactofcovid-19surveynovember2020well-beingandlifestyleunderlevel5restrictions/backgroundnotes/
…what has been encouraging all along has been the solidarity of people in the face of this terrible pandemic…despite the disdain demonstrated by the state broadcaster and some members of the Oireachtas…despite the relentless campaign waged by the pro-sickness brigade…the vast majority of people have been trying to do what is right and with the help of heroes like the NPHET, science will triumph…
pro-sickness brigade
2000 cancers maybe?
Those who cannot put food on the table perhaps?
Mental health and suicides is it?
I understand the urge to be black and white but please bisted- you clearly have a comfortable cushion under your financial derrière- in which case you are the opposite of what you claim.
You are me not we- be honest and just admit it.
@ Cian
Thank you for the link. It is indeed helpful to have information on the sample cohort. It is clear that some sections of the population were under-represented and that CSO recognises that their sample is not truly representative. I detect more than just an awareness of ‘some limitation of the group used’. Reading the description given, CSO is admitting to some quite major problems in this respect, and to the fact that the weighting is only partially corrective. A significant comment from the CSO is:
However, given the non-random nature of the final sample selected, it is unlikely that we can fully account fully for bias inherent in the final sample. For this reason, caution should be taken when attempting to make inferences to the entire population from these results.
tell you what Cian
why not eliminate everyone who has had full pay etc
zero impact on their careers
zero impact in their finances, short and longterm, from week to week, mortgage & pension
from all surveys attempting to measure anything to do with the Covid 19 Pandemic management etc
cause that’s the only way to get an honest answer as to how this Government handled it
+ no pay for student nurses while this Government’s first week in the job got them a payrise………btw
╰（‵□′）╯
Oh just cause you’re still taking the party line like –
every credit union is managed by its own Board of Directors, and owned by its own members
with their own strategy, their own accounts, their own policies and procedures, their own AGMS
all 238 (RoI) of them
If I was to blame every Local Authority in the State for what goes on say – in South Dublin County Council
You wouldn’t be long herding up the lads to dampen it
BTW everyone, I found Brian Hayes, he turned up at a cpd Webinar last week
You do not want to know what he had to say Cian
Why exclude some people?
When they are doing the deprivation index – they don’t exclude rich people.
When they do a happiness index – they don’t exclude sad people.
The whole point of a national survey is to gauge how the *whole* nation is feeling. I’m sure that the (full-pay, zero impact-on-their-careers) nurses have a lot to say about how the government is handling this.
It is doubly funny that you still paint all of the civil and public service with one brush while pointing out the ” independence” of the individual credit unions.
Every hospital is managed by their own board of directors, owned (usually by a bunch of nuns) has their own strategy, accounts, policies and procedures, blah, blah, blah. Same goes for all the Quangos.
Why exclude some people? you tell me?
PUP?
Student Nurses?
And who got pay rises?
+ increments
Do you seriously think everyone has been impacted equally C!an?
Or are you just trying to convince me a survey conducted by the CSO deliberately sought out equal numbers of respondents from those who haven’t missed a day of work, and those who don’t know if they’ll never return to their jobs or get their businesses back to YE 2019 trading levels?
Those that haven’t needed repayment holidays on their loans and mortgages v those that are still trying to negotiate with their lenders? – ask Brian Hayes what plans they have for SME Employers and Employees – go on. Michael Noonan rared him well lemme tell ya
If you want to talk about the Independence of Semi States, Quangos and other organisations with Government Service Level agreements, bailouts, tender contracts, and licenses
Then start with who appoints their Directors
And or
Where do those Directors come from
Hint – tis a bit like Judges
And just for the craic – when Fine Gael had the gift of the Minister will appoint all to themselves, take a good look at the Appointments
I never said everyone was impacted equally. Some are a lot worse than others. But a survey that only looks at those worst affected is useless.
“Breaking news: people badly affected by covid are terribly unhappy”
Not useful.
Also, there are lots of people that are financially secure under Covid, but are hating it: healthcare workers (public and private), shopkeepers, pensioners, …; you want to silence them too?
And who got pay rises?
+ increments
Who? I know there were pay restorations. the civil and public servants – remember those that got hit in 2008/2009 with additional unpaid hours, extra payments, pay-cuts, lost increments?? Who were promised that these would be returned over the following years.
Or are you just trying to convince me a survey conducted by the CSO deliberately sought out equal numbers of respondents from those who haven’t missed a day of work, and those who don’t know if they’ll never return to their jobs or get their businesses back to YE 2019 trading levels?
No I’m not. I’m saying that CSO tried to get a representative sample of these two groups. I don’t know if there are more in the former or the latter group or the same… but the CSO can and should answer that.
You are funny though. you have said a number of times here that the government try to divide and conquer and we shouldn’t let them… and yet here you are doing the same thing.
That doesn’t sound like a proper mechanism under which to do any analyses. Exclusion of certain groups I mean. Be a bit like studying how allergic something is and excluding those that didn’t have a reaction.
Secondarily it seems naive to think that anyone has been unaffected by this pandemic.
Tis
And I would agree
In a normal environment
But lockdowns and restrictions have made no change to a lot of livelihoods
And the effect of that versus those that will never recover any sort of normality is extreme
And vast
And devastating
And totally abnormal
The postman v the taxi driver?
The school teacher v the hairdresser?
I’m only suggesting that for this survey to be meaningful
It should have equal number of respondents from those that got to carry on as usual – in as much as they could, adapted to new norms, and what have ya
And those that went from whole time jobs to pup
To reduced pup
To whatever tis now
The cost of living didn’t change you know
But the real cost of getting through the pandemic won’t be known for years
So from that pov
I think any survey testing how Government managed 2020 / Pandemic from start to all the clear
Especially from a Government Set Up
Is not very useful – as best
Potentially misleading at worst, which is what I think btw
@V
have you read the survey results?
Because if not, go read it. it is very interesting and addresses many of your concerns:
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-sic19wbl5/socialimpactofcovid-19surveynovember2020well-beingandlifestyleunderlevel5restrictions/well-being/
can we please stop referring to Irishtimes. its on the level of Fox News in terms of accuracy.